Bolton Wanderers Unpaid Staff Need Food bank.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

The Efl Hand Grenade that has been thrown into the room this morning just may be the catalyst to get these gobshytes finalizing a deal...clearly been too much dicking around and patience has snapped.

Edited August 26, 2019 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[Rogerb]

If Bolton do go and a new Co is formed I wonder what level they will be admitted at in view of efl bending over backwards to help. Be ironic if it's Bury who survive!

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Rangers of Glasgow had to start again from the very bottom,if it can happen to a club of that size and support......

[Alex Rover]

Just keep in mind that if venkys pull out of the Rovers with the debt they are covering, we could be next.

[rigger]

22 minutes ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

Rangers of Glasgow had to start again from the very bottom,if it can happen to a club of that size and support......

The very bottom of the league, not non league 

[Alex Rover]

On Pleasy Playing Fields.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Alex Rover

[JHRover]

42 minutes ago, Alex Rover said:

Just keep in mind that if venkys pull out of the Rovers with the debt they are covering, we could be next.

Not sure it is so simple as that. 

We are in the Bolton position of 4-5 years ago, not the Bolton position of today. 4-5 years ago Bolton were a Championship club losing millions a year and relying on Eddie Davies underwriting those losses every year like he had for the previous 10-15 years. Unfortunately for Bolton Eddie Davies was knocking on, approaching his 70s and was never rich enough to endlessly subsidise them through years in the Championship. He decided enough was enough and he was going to fund them no more. Unfortunately for Bolton they ended up going down to League One and they got saddled with Ken Anderson who has, shall we say, a chequered background and certainly not the cash needed. 

As for Bolton's current predicament that has come about due to the various amounts they owe to various creditors who are unable to agree on a deal, meanwhile the club runs out of cash under the administrators. 

For us to end up like them we would need a) Venkys to decide to walk away all of a sudden, b) them to leave the club saddled under their 'debt' and to seek repayment of it and c) nobody else be willing or able to take the club on after them. Clearly the last one depends on what state they left us in.

Without wanting to sound blase about the situation a lot has to happen before we end up like Bolton. We've no idea whether that could happen here or not. I'm sure Wigan fans feared what would happen to them after Whelan left but he seems to have done OK so far at finding them new owners.

[philipl]

Administrator of Bolton has confirmed there is no basis on which to continue operating beyond tomorrow night.

Football Ventures are the only bidder who meet all criteria.

Some serious nerve testing going on between Anderson, Davies' Estate and Football Ventures over an historic £7m debt.

If I were Football Ventures, I'd be telling the others go whistle for their £7m and I guess that is the point on which the deal broke.

Meanwhile at Bury...

 

Bury’s demise is a grim warning that small-town Britain is being left behind

David Conn

When I was growing up, Gigg Lane glowed with local charm. Now the club’s plight may be prophetic for a neglected region

Mon 26 Aug 2019 16.26 BSTLast modified on Mon 26 Aug 2019 17.16 BST

•  ‘The ruins of Bury FC expose the wider vulnerability of its surrounding town and many places like it around the country. It is hard not to see the parallels with Brexit’ Photograph: Facundo Arrizabalaga/EPA

 The threatened expulsion of small town Bury from the English Football League – which could happen if the owner, Steve Dale, does not conclude a sale of the club by 5pm on Tuesday – has been a touch more emotional for me than many of the football traumas I have investigated as a journalist over the past 20 years. I grew up in north Manchester, five miles down the road, and went to school in Bury. Twice a day I used to pass the club’s Gigg Lane ground and wonder at it from the top of the 35 bus: a proper football home, bedded in with all its history behind a pleasing line of trees.

In these crisis-stricken months for Bury, a club founded in 1885, many people have rightly pointed with bewilderment to English football’s violent inequalities; to Manchester City and United 10 miles away, owned by overseas billionaires, making multimillionaires of their players and managers. Supporters have despaired at the gaping holes in football’s governance, its painfully limited “fit and proper persons test” for owners, so long campaigned for but that still fails to protect beloved clubs from needless ruination.

 

Since the coalition government formed in 2010, Bury council has suffered cuts of £85m, 61% of its annual budget

But the details of Bury’s crumbling expose an alarming, knacker’s-yard wreckage that is more broadly worrying for the economies of Britain’s old industrial places at this time of imminent national shock. Football, the national sport, has always reflected the country and its times. When Bury, Bolton, Blackburn, Preston and other north-west and Midlands towns formed the late-Victorian professional clubs, they were powerhouses of mills and manufacturing. The former public schoolboys who founded the Football Association in London in 1863 remained amateurs and opposed professionalism for years – partly because they did not need the money to compensate them for time off to train and play.

 

 

Today, the ruins of Bury FC expose the wider vulnerability of its surrounding town and many places like it around the country on the brink of Brexit: a disruption engineered by politicians who never took the bus to school, apparently incubating extreme ideologies for a country from which they were always kept detached.

Bury’s financial instability was evident for five years under the previous owner, Stewart Day, a Blackburn-based property developer specialising in accommodation blocks for students. In 2014 his company borrowed money secured on Gigg Lane at 10% interest a month, which compounded into 138% annual interest. That, sadly, did not clang enough alarm bells and Day continued building his flats, and loading borrowings on to Bury, until it all collapsed.

 

 Joy Hart, former director at Bury FC, locks herself to a drainpipe near Gigg Lane in protest against the club’s owner. Photograph: Harry McGuire/The Guardian

When he announced in December that he had sold the club to Dale, for £1, Day said he wanted to spend more time with his family, while Dale spoke of it as a philanthropic venture. Day’s financial difficulties were laid bare within weeks, as his companies fell into insolvency and administration.

Some people involved in new or expanding universities in northern former mill towns have described their growth as economic regeneration, but it has always seemed shaky to base a recovery on government-backed loans taken out by young people facing uncertain futures. Day’s property ventures were not even supported by banks; he had borrowed heavily from Lendy, a model based on attracting money from thousands of individual investors, which has itself collapsed and is now subject to a Financial Conduct Authority investigation. Day also pre-sold individual flats, promising guaranteed returns from students’ rent payments, and many investors are now distraught at seeing life savings lost.

At Bury itself, loans now up to £3.7m, secured on Gigg Lane, were taken from an outfit called Capital Bridging Finance Solutions, based in Crosby, with 40% commissions paid to still-unnamed third parties as introduction fees. The publicly filed documents state that Capital in turn mortgaged Bury’s ground to a company registered in Malta, whose own lenders for the deal were eight companies domiciled in the offshore tax haven of the British Virgin Islands. Perhaps you have to know and have been to Gigg Lane, a football haven amid terraced streets just off Manchester Road, to feel in your guts the ludicrous nature of such house-of-cards economics.

A further look at Dale’s business record revealed a trader in insolvent companies that had mostly been dissolved or liquidated. Any philanthropic intentions were overtaken by his voluble complaining at the financial hole vacated by Day. On the way to Bury’s own insolvency Dale laid off hardworking staff and failed to pay £4m of creditors including £1.1m to HMRC, as well as players who are still owed substantial back wages.

Bury’s council leader, David Jones, told the Guardian last week that losing the club would be a “nail in the coffin” for the town. Since David Cameron and Nick Clegg formed their coalition government in 2010, the council has suffered cuts of £85m, 61% of its annual budget, he said. Boris Johnson is now presenting a no-deal Brexit as easy to cope with, when the government’s own assessment is that the north-west’s already patchy and unequal economy will suffer a -12% hit.

That is the broader context of the Bury collapse and its defining image: the former director Joy Hart, chaining herself to a drainpipe outside the club’s closed offices, pleading for salvation.

[Mr. E]

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

Not sure it is so simple as that. 

We are in the Bolton position of 4-5 years ago, not the Bolton position of today. 4-5 years ago Bolton were a Championship club losing millions a year and relying on Eddie Davies underwriting those losses every year like he had for the previous 10-15 years. Unfortunately for Bolton Eddie Davies was knocking on, approaching his 70s and was never rich enough to endlessly subsidise them through years in the Championship. He decided enough was enough and he was going to fund them no more. Unfortunately for Bolton they ended up going down to League One and they got saddled with Ken Anderson who has, shall we say, a chequered background and certainly not the cash needed. 

As for Bolton's current predicament that has come about due to the various amounts they owe to various creditors who are unable to agree on a deal, meanwhile the club runs out of cash under the administrators. 

For us to end up like them we would need a) Venkys to decide to walk away all of a sudden, b) them to leave the club saddled under their 'debt' and to seek repayment of it and c) nobody else be willing or able to take the club on after them. Clearly the last one depends on what state they left us in.

Without wanting to sound blase about the situation a lot has to happen before we end up like Bolton. We've no idea whether that could happen here or not. I'm sure Wigan fans feared what would happen to them after Whelan left but he seems to have done OK so far at finding them new owners.

Is there no directive in place prohibiting owners like Venkys from just pulling the plug? Are they not obliged to find a financially suitable buyer, even if at least on paper? If not then that is absolutely scandalous.
 

[Claytons Left Boot]

Whilst the EFL/PL need to up their act with regard to the fit and proper test, the financial problems faced by both Bury and Bolton are of their own making and they need to look at themselves in the mirror and accept a level of responsibility.

A football club is a business and should be run on the same principles as those of a corner shop or a local garage. There is only so long a club can keep sustaining losses before the bank and/or the major shareholders say enough is enough and turn off the money tap.

There can’t be many clubs, these days, that register a profit outside some of the Premier League clubs. It’s a reasonably simple concept of having to either increase revenue or cut costs to get on an even keel but, in practice, it’s virtually impossible to do.

When we struggled in the 70s and 80s, we cut our cloth accordingly. The Chairman, virtually without exception, was a local businessman who dipped his hands into his pockets once in a while to help out. Players were bought within a budget based on attendances and other players were sold on for a profit wherever possible. We, along with around 85% of the entire football league were a selling club.

The major problem in football today is the obscene amount of wages paid to the Premier League players which filters down to the Championship and beyond. Football is awash with money like never before but instead of essentially going to the clubs, it ends up in the back pockets of the players instead of moving down the pyramid as far as grass roots levels. Unfortunately, only twenty teams enjoy the gravy train but the others aspire to reach that level and stretch themselves financially far beyond their capabilities. Hence, the Burys and Boltons. You could probably add the Coventrys, the Blackburns and several others bubbling under the surface that we are yet to hear about.

In my opinion, if there isn’t to be a fairer distribution of tv monies, there has to be some sort of salary cap introduced to put an end to this wages obscenity. The Rugby League salary cap works to a degree but holds back certain clubs that are wanting to progress. Whilst in Rugby League, each club in Super League has the same amount of cap, I think it would only be fair in football to have it based on say turnover or average attendances on a pro rata basis. It won’t be easy orchestrating this but, if wages continue to spiral like they do, I can see plenty more teams potentially going to the wall.

[Adam C]

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

Not sure it is so simple as that. 

We are in the Bolton position of 4-5 years ago, not the Bolton position of today. 4-5 years ago Bolton were a Championship club losing millions a year and relying on Eddie Davies underwriting those losses every year like he had for the previous 10-15 years.

This scares the life out of me. We’re not far away from this situation, and given that the Venkys have absolutely no interest in the club I worry that they’ll tire of their project and get rid. They’ve blown an indecent amount of money on us and, with no idea of how a small football club is run, they are not likely to find a return to the PL before boredom or a realisation of the financial black hole they have created sets in. Then we really are sunk. I feel sorry for the Bolton and Bury fans, they didn’t ask for any of this.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Just now, The Hypnotic said:

This scares the life out of me. We’re not far away from this situation, and given that the Venkys have absolutely no interest in the club I worry that they’ll tire of their project and get rid. They’ve blown an indecent amount of money on us and, with no idea of how a small football club is run, they are not likely to find a return to the PL before boredom or a realisation of the financial black hole they have created sets in. Then we really are sunk. I feel sorry for the Bolton and Bury fans, they didn’t ask for any of this.

Less of the small!! We are at least medium.

[Stuart]

The silence from other clubs on the Bury and Bolton situations is deafening.

There but for the grace of God...

[Adam C]

Just now, Proudtobeblue&white said:

Less of the small!! We are at least medium.

? fair enough. I take back that comment!

[Adam C]

47 minutes ago, Claytons Left Boot said:

In my opinion, if there isn’t to be a fairer distribution of tv monies, there has to be some sort of salary cap introduced to put an end to this wages obscenity. The Rugby League salary cap works to a degree but holds back certain clubs that are wanting to progress. Whilst in Rugby League, each club in Super League has the same amount of cap, I think it would only be fair in football to have it based on say turnover or average attendances on a pro rata basis. It won’t be easy orchestrating this but, if wages continue to spiral like they do, I can see plenty more teams potentially going to the wall.

I think that the TV money should be shared out further down the leagues. Can’t see it happening though as the system in other countries is even worse and it’s more likely that clubs will be allowed to negotiate their own deals in future. 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

25 minutes ago, The Hypnotic said:

This scares the life out of me. We’re not far away from this situation, and given that the Venkys have absolutely no interest in the club I worry that they’ll tire of their project and get rid. They’ve blown an indecent amount of money on us and, with no idea of how a small football club is run, they are not likely to find a return to the PL before boredom or a realisation of the financial black hole they have created sets in. Then we really are sunk. I feel sorry for the Bolton and Bury fans, they didn’t ask for any of this.

This could very well be the sad scenario if we don't get back to the gravy train of the top flight very soon.

Eddie Davies wrote off 180 MILLION of Bolton debt...I pray to God our Pune Masters are as generous if they decide to call it a day.We are entirely at their mercy.

Edited August 26, 2019 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[Waggy76]

Come 5pm tomorrow , there will be another extension .....

Interestingly they play Bury live on Sky on September 8th .....

I suspect that game will go ahead but not sure about any after that date for either club !!

 

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Just now, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

This could well be the case if we don't get back to the gravy train of the top flight very soon.

Eddie Davies wrote off 180 MILLION of Bolton debt...I pray to God our Pune Masters are as generous if they decide to call it a day.We are entirely at their mercy.

That's why I hate them. No affinity, no voice, no idea. They might be rich, and if so, spend wisely. But after all this time, clueless.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Why are you here? What do you want from us?....it's gone unanswered from day one of their tenure.

We should all be shit scared of what is happening just 8 miles up the road in Horwich.

Edited August 26, 2019 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[Stuart]

13 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

Come 5pm tomorrow , there will be another extension .....

Interestingly they play Bury live on Sky on September 8th .....

I suspect that game will go ahead but not sure about any after that date for either club !!

It’s not about extensions for Bolton, it’s about desperately rescuing a deal with FV or the cannot pay their way.

[Exiled_Rover]

6 hours ago, Alex Rover said:

Just keep in mind that if venkys pull out of the Rovers with the debt they are covering, we could be next.

Fuck the Rao family, they got us into this mess. 

[Exiled_Rover]

On 24/08/2019 at 22:21, DE. said:

Been some downfall for Jason since he left us. A final day one year contract at Birmingham where he barely played, followed by relegation with Bolton and now captaining a team of u18 players who get destroyed every week in League 1. I remember when some said he'd end up in the Premier League when he left us  not quite.

Bet he's not even the best player in his team.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Just reading a nightmare piece on Leeds and their borrowing spiral back in 1999 and the few years thereafter. Without a financial backer and limitations with their bankers, they turned to Ray Ranson (ex Man City player) who found a unique, new way to finance player purchases. For each player bought, he found a separate lender for a type of lease back facility, backed by an insurance policy over the term of that players contract. Once they were up to their necks in this, they then brought in a finance whizz named Stephen Schechter who arranged further borrowing for player purchases against future season ticket sales. Whilst Leeds were relatively successful for a short period, this worked but when they then failed to qualify for the lucrative Champions League, the escalating debt became a millstone around their neck that they were unable to service. In the meantime, players salaries had shot through the roof, adding to their woes. They were on a downward curve, were relegated from the PL and ended up selling Elland Road. Absolutely mind boggling stuff and shows the lengths folk will go to in an attempt to gain success. Obviously, the fans would have been unaware of the behind-the-scenes activities. This sort of stuff always comes out once the sh1t has well and truly hit the fan.

[47er]

Just now, Claytons Left Boot said:

Just reading a nightmare piece on Leeds and their borrowing spiral back in 1999 and the few years thereafter. Without a financial backer and limitations with their bankers, they turned to Ray Ranson (ex Man City player) who found a unique, new way to finance player purchases. For each player bought, he found a separate lender for a type of lease back facility, backed by an insurance policy over the term of that players contract. Once they were up to their necks in this, they then brought in a finance whizz named Stephen Schechter who arranged further borrowing for player purchases against future season ticket sales. Whilst Leeds were relatively successful for a short period, this worked but when they then failed to qualify for the lucrative Champions League, the escalating debt became a millstone around their neck that they were unable to service. In the meantime, players salaries had shot through the roof, adding to their woes. They were on a downward curve, were relegated from the PL and ended up selling Elland Road. Absolutely mind boggling stuff and shows the lengths folk will go to in an attempt to gain success. Obviously, the fans would have been unaware of the behind-the-scenes activities. This sort of stuff always comes out once the sh1t has well and truly hit the fan.

I remember at that time, they were linked with just about every player in the League and made signing after signing. Big fees too! 

I thought at the time that "this madness will end in tears"! Never really recovered have they?

Kept their fans though I suppose.

[tomphil]

Just now, Claytons Left Boot said:

Just reading a nightmare piece on Leeds and their borrowing spiral back in 1999 and the few years thereafter. Without a financial backer and limitations with their bankers, they turned to Ray Ranson (ex Man City player) who found a unique, new way to finance player purchases. For each player bought, he found a separate lender for a type of lease back facility, backed by an insurance policy over the term of that players contract. Once they were up to their necks in this, they then brought in a finance whizz named Stephen Schechter who arranged further borrowing for player purchases against future season ticket sales. Whilst Leeds were relatively successful for a short period, this worked but when they then failed to qualify for the lucrative Champions League, the escalating debt became a millstone around their neck that they were unable to service. In the meantime, players salaries had shot through the roof, adding to their woes. They were on a downward curve, were relegated from the PL and ended up selling Elland Road. Absolutely mind boggling stuff and shows the lengths folk will go to in an attempt to gain success. Obviously, the fans would have been unaware of the behind-the-scenes activities. This sort of stuff always comes out once the sh1t has well and truly hit the fan.

This is why i try and console myself that the VH group vast monthly turnover is what underwrites the monthly wages and bills at Rovers via the BOI in some sort of overseas asset loss leader tax massaging, only thing that would remotely make any sense.

The reality of it could be very different though but we'd never know until something went majorly wrong or they disappeared overnight.