Mogga's India Trip 2019

[Hasta]

Most people said top 6 was too early last season and that it was all about consolidation. They said next season was the time to be realistically pushing for top 6.

I suspect the same posters will say this season it is still one year too early, a slow build is needed and the following season will be the push for top 6.

Then it will be "we can't compete financially so it will take longer"

We will never get to the season in those people's eyes when we should be pushing for top 6.

Good recruitment and good coaching can get you a long way in this league. Top 6 has to be the aim from the start in the upcoming season.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Hasta

[DE.]

A bit late to talk about making us sustainable when we're already in such incredible debt. Sustainability plans should have been enacted years ago. The only way we get out of this black hole now is by getting promoted, and doing it on the cheap won't be easy without a very good and a very brave manager. I'm not even sure the club can maintain Championship status by being sustainable. It would all come down to the manager and very shrewd transfer dealings, neither of which we've been too hot on since our esteemed owners darkened the doors of Ewood.

Obviously theoretically running the club at a sustainable level is the ideal goal, and it's what Jack himself wanted for us, but we're already working on one hell of a handicap thanks to nearly a decade of disastrous mismanagement. So much so that it almost makes wanting to make the club self-sustainable now laughable and pointless. 

[JHRover]

The 2-3 years from now project is a myth. The only way that will end up is with us selling 2-3 of our best players either to claw some cash back for the owners or because the players get better offers elsewhere and then the whole thing starts again with the excuse being that we are in transition and waiting for new players to settle in. Before you know it you're 5 or 6 years down the line no better off, still hemorrhaging cash trying to find someone else to sell. The sort of mentality that sees a club in the doldrums for decades until or unless you get lucky, like the dingles did with Coyle the buffoon. 

Doubt Wilder was telling his boys to slow down this season as he has a 2 or 3 year plan. Went out to win every game and got the job done.

[tomphil]

The xyz year thing just keeps getting reset every so often if we sell a player it'll get reset again we've already been told so many windows yet purposely stood still in the last one.

If the aim is to steadily build for a tilt at the top you can't waste any windows at all even if it's a 3 year plan,  which we are a year or two into now depending on which summer you believe the clock was set.

Burnley keep getting dragged up as the slow build example but once Howe set the ball rolling then Dyche took over how long did it actually take ?   Their sole aim was building a side and infracstructure to get up not to just  breed players to sell or rescue unfortunate/ageing or players who'd lost their way.

We are the most stable we've ever been now under Venkys and Mowbray and co have got us in a healthy position on and off the park and value wise.  No boom or bust but time to turn it up a notch in terms of recruitment. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by tomphil

[JacknOry]

Burnely's slow build model is nothing ore than making their ownership of Pl money while doing the minimum possible not to get relegated. Its worked so far but next season they are down - any takers on a wager?

[OldEwoodBlue]

Fair play to Waggott for good (on the face of it honest) communication and thorough explanation of the process in India.

If it's true, it has to be positive that the owners were asking about THE BLIP.

 

I will still wait to see the evidence in the transfer market but my ST money is in my pocket ready to purchase.

Over to you Tony.

Inspire us please.

[Sparks Rover]

25 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

 

If it's true, it has to be positive that the owners were asking about THE BLIP.

What, the feckin 8 year blip? Knobs

[joey_big_nose]

I don't think getting in the top six next season is unrealistic, and should be the target, and I am sure it will be.

I guess the key question is what is the minimum acceptable position where heads will roll if not achieved. I would say that's 9th-10th.

Based on the other teams in the league and the inherent highly unpredictable nature of the Championship I think the above is reasonable.

[JacknOry]

I would be expecting top 10 as a bare minimum as progress but we really should be doing all we can to make that push into the top 6. if its true we have a similar transfer budget as last season, this is not an unrealistic aim considering many teams would love to have been able to spend 20 million in the last couple of seasons.

I dont think Dack will be sold this season despite the efforts of his agent simply because (and this is a rare plus for the Venkies), they always hold out for top money for our biggest stars. Valuation of Dack seems to be around the 18 million mark and I just cannot see many teams willing to splash that amount on him right now. Next season possibly once he proves for the second year running that he is a player at this level.

 

[Mattyblue]

Thought it was interesting that Waggott admitted it will be a weaker league this time. 

 

 

[tomphil]

It's good if they think they've spotted a chance.

To be fair I thought Waggots interview came across well he seems very thorough on the face of it and explained stuff in detail. Still sounds like the squeeze might be being put on other areas of the club but Venkys are now clearly keeping track of where every penny goes so it would be a travesty if money is wasted at the top end.

 

[Mattyblue]

Little bit of pressure put on Mowbray I thought. No hiding behind ‘Well club x have parachute money’. ‘Sunderland get 30,000 gates’ and so on. Quite right too.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Mattyblue

[tomphil]

So the alleged three year plan ...     ( if only football worked like this...)

Last season 4th bottom to 14 th ..

Next season  14th to 8 th  with an outside shot at 6th ..

Season after top 8 with a realistic shot at top 6 ...   ?

Reasonable maybe with continued backing and holding firm on sales although it'll all have to be delivered within the same realistic budgets,  I get the impression Venkys as a whole not individually might be happy to leave you plodding if you can create players to sell and the losses are manageable on their books.   However if you sell them a plan or vision they'll expect it delivered.

Not sure where TM & co are with that so maybe a bit of pressure  next season but I wouldn't be so sure that he'd heap it upon himself he's been around the block and he's looked very relaxed the last two seasons.

[OldEwoodBlue]

9 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Little bit of pressure put on Mowbray I thought. No hiding behind ‘Well club x have parachute money’. ‘Sunderland get 30,000 gates’ and so on. Quite right too.

There has to be real pressure on him this season Matty.

He had his free pass last season.

 

At the end of the day we were 3 points outside the play offs and then went into freefall. Firmly at Tony's doorstep that. Flash the free pass.

 

Minimum expectation this season is the play offs. No excuses.

[philipl]

14 hours ago, DE. said:

A bit late to talk about making us sustainable when we're already in such incredible debt. Sustainability plans should have been enacted years ago. The only way we get out of this black hole now is by getting promoted, and doing it on the cheap won't be easy without a very good and a very brave manager. I'm not even sure the club can maintain Championship status by being sustainable. It would all come down to the manager and very shrewd transfer dealings, neither of which we've been too hot on since our esteemed owners darkened the doors of Ewood.

Obviously theoretically running the club at a sustainable level is the ideal goal, and it's what Jack himself wanted for us, but we're already working on one hell of a handicap thanks to nearly a decade of disastrous mismanagement. So much so that it almost makes wanting to make the club self-sustainable now laughable and pointless. 

How often have I got to explain that whereas most football debt is existentially unsustainable, Rovers debt is actually very safe. Yes 2010 to 2017 was off the scale horrendous but currently it could scarcely be better from a sustainability stand point for a club from an impoverished little town.

[DE.]

Just now, philipl said:

How often have I got to explain that whereas most football debt is existentially unsustainable, Rovers debt is actually very safe. Yes 2010 to 2017 was off the scale horrendous but currently it could scarcely be better from a sustainability stand point for a club from an impoverished little town.

Then why the talk of changing tactics and "making the club sustainable" if we're already sitting pretty?

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, DE. said:

Then why the talk of changing tactics and "making the club sustainable" if we're already sitting pretty?

I think he means that the debt is held with the parent company and therefore the business "Blackburn Rovers " is safe as houses.

 

It's when shytes like Ken Anderson get hold and then leverage debt with financial institutions against the club and its property.   On top of not paying HMRC....this would never happen under venkys no matter what we think about them 

[MarkBRFC]

Is losing in the play off semi final next season a successful one?

[Stuart]

Just now, MarkBRFC said:

Is losing in the play off semi final next season a successful one?

No but it would be acceptable progress as it would mean we had a great season to finish 3rd - 6th.

I would be happy with a play-off place.

(Unless we were second with three games left and lost them all, of course!)

[tomphil]

6 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

Is losing in the play off semi final next season a successful one?

Not aimed at you but i'll never get people who say we aren't ready for the play offs we'll only lose or promotion we'll only get hammered and come straight back down.

So f##### what !   After the last ten years i'd take losing in a play off or final as long as they give it a good go. And i'd take being a yoyo club for a few years whether anyone likes it or not we are doing it the hard way next time so it'll be heartbreaking at times.

A stronger backbone is needed for half our fanbase i'm afraid.

Edited June 1, 2019 by tomphil

[MarkBRFC]

Just now, tomphil said:

Not aimed at you but i'll never get people who say we aren't ready for the play offs we'll only lose or promotion we'll only get hammered and come straight back down.

So f##### what !   After the last ten years i'd take losing in a play off or final as long as they give it a good go. And i'd take being a yoyo club for a few years whether anyone likes it or not we are doing it the hard way next time so it'll be heartbreaking at times.

A stronger backbone is needed for half our fanbase i'm afraid.

Completely agree.

At the start of Feb I couldn't believe we didn't make a couple of signings then and really have a go with us only being 3 points off. It could be years before we get in that position again.

My point is that whilst I accept that it would be progress if we finished 6th, the year after we could easily finish 15th again, but a lot on here seem to view that getting in the play offs is a successful season, it isn't, winning them is.

[JHRover]

There seems to be a belief that it is one or the other - either a gung ho approach in which we spend big money and gamble on getting up or face big problems with Ffp and increased losses - or the slow build in which we spend small amounts each season to try and keep within Ffp rules and that in a few years we should have built towards promotion contention and that if we don't go up everything will be rosy in the garden because we haven't overspent.

Problem is though that the slow build concept ignores the likely loss of our best players and difficulty in replacing them, failure to do so would likely see regression. It also ignores that we aren't self sufficient by a long way and every year we are out of the top flight we lose 6 figure amounts.

It also ignores that only one other club has been sanctioned for breaking Ffp rules and that whilst spending more carries some more risk, the rewards are greater. The more you spend the greater value the assets are likely to be.

Ffp has brought a convenient excuse to Venkys doorstep. If they don't want to spend more that's up to them but just be honest about it. Doing it our way isn't noble or better than others.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I had my cctv guy call around today to service my cameras. He's a football fan and he was telling me he was called out to service some cameras recently on a private estate. He called at a really big house that he thought was the customers house but there was no answer. When he phoned the customer on his mobile the guy told him he was at the wrong house and that Venkies owned the house. They bought it off Phil Neville apparently and they stay in it a couple of days a year !

[Mattyblue]

Gary Neville, this one I believe:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/9177874.blackburn-rovers-owners-buy-gary-neville-5m-mansion/

[tomphil]

Where does Middleman lay down his cap at night ?