Championship season 2019-20

[tomphil]

I'd have no problem with one season in the Prem as painful as it would be it has the potential to properly reset the clock for this club. It really really needs that but there seems no genuine hurry or desire from above to grasp the mettle sooner rather than later.

Probably because these owners personally don't need the money and loosing 10/15 mill per year through the books of VLL & BRFC seems to suit their purpose.  It's a strange set up because surely they themselves or at least their money men will know how important to the actual club accounts a Prem season and following parachutes are.

[DE.]

17 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Norwich seem to have no problem with a season in the PL. We will be playing them soon enough.

BBC:

Farke insisted the Canaries went about the season in the right way. "From the first day after promotion our chances to survive were perhaps 5% so in 19 out of 20 cases you will go down," he added. "If you have luck and no injuries then you have a chance. When we are 100% we are competitive but when it's 96 or 97% then it sometimes looks like men against boys." "The club is able to pay for all the sins of the past. We are able to invest in our infrastructure for the long term. I was fully aware and committed for doing things this way." "Of course we're disappointed but it was the right decision for this club and I always was happy to stick to this plan."

Whilst Farke is correct about financial security, the idea that they went about the season the right way is laughable. Burnley and Sheff Utd have shown that with a smart plan in place smaller clubs with limited budgets can survive in the PL. It was obvious when Norwich went up that unless they changed their style of play they'd be coming straight back down, as they conceded the most goals of any Championship winners in over a decade. Failure to address that is a pretty big oversight and as a Norwich fan I wouldn't be very happy with these defeatist comments from a manager who clearly did not put the right strategy in place to give the club the best chance of avoiding relegation.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Whilst Farke is correct about financial security, the idea that they went about the season the right way is laughable. Burnley and Sheff Utd have shown that with a smart plan in place smaller clubs with limited budgets can survive in the PL. It was obvious when Norwich went up that unless they changed their style of play they'd be coming straight back down, as they conceded the most goals of any Championship winners in over a decade. Failure to address that is a pretty big oversight and as a Norwich fan I wouldn't be very happy with these defeatist comments from a manager who clearly did not put the right strategy in place to give the club the best chance of avoiding relegation.

They did change how they played as well, they just weren't good enough. The manager really being given free reign to waffle with those comments. He has earned that right I suppose. Bad start next season though and he might change his tune about whether he "did it the right way"

Interesting to see if the repeated clubs will stick with their managers next season. I suspect Norwich, Villa and Bournemouth all would. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[AllRoverAsia]

 

 

 

1

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Whilst Farke is correct about financial security, the idea that they went about the season the right way is laughable. Burnley and Sheff Utd have shown that with a smart plan in place smaller clubs with limited budgets can survive in the PL. It was obvious when Norwich went up that unless they changed their style of play they'd be coming straight back down, as they conceded the most goals of any Championship winners in over a decade. Failure to address that is a pretty big oversight and as a Norwich fan I wouldn't be very happy with these defeatist comments from a manager who clearly did not put the right strategy in place to give the club the best chance of avoiding relegation.

Farke was following orders from his Board who spent next to nothing after promotion. They had debts to resolve first.

Barring a miracle they expected relegation and I think they are planning a more serious promotion bid in the season to come.

They were promoted last season under Farke earlier than expected and found themselves with the unexpected bonus in their "slow build" of a season of PL money etc etc

Going into a defensive mode in the PL with the players at his disposal and not allowed to buy much would not have worked either and he's not a lump it merchant like Ginger.

One of Mowbray's main attributes, at least to his acolytes, is his honesty yet here is Farke being slated for being in those now immortal words = open and honest. Odd.

Yes they are also disappointed to be relegated BUT at least they got there

[47er]

19 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Norwich seem to have no problem with a season in the PL. We will be playing them soon enough.

BBC:

Farke insisted the Canaries went about the season in the right way. "From the first day after promotion our chances to survive were perhaps 5% so in 19 out of 20 cases you will go down," he added. "If you have luck and no injuries then you have a chance. When we are 100% we are competitive but when it's 96 or 97% then it sometimes looks like men against boys." "The club is able to pay for all the sins of the past. We are able to invest in our infrastructure for the long term. I was fully aware and committed for doing things this way." "Of course we're disappointed but it was the right decision for this club and I always was happy to stick to this plan."

Norwich spent £2m! Never serious about staying up.

Happy to yo-yo I think

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, 47er said:

Norwich spent £2m! Never serious about staying up.

Happy to yo-yo I think

Fazakerly 

[KS Cracovia]

Well it looks like Leeds are finally going to reach the promised land. They have been the best team in the Division being honest. I can't wait to see Bielsa in the PL against the top teams. I just hope he isn't as stubborn as he appears to be and adds to the squad and actually plays them. I can imagine him buying a £30m striker and having him on the bench and playing Lord Patrick.

Rovers are still in with a chance of the play offs. 3 very winnable games coming up. Had a decent bit of form to be fair.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

Whilst Farke is correct about financial security, the idea that they went about the season the right way is laughable. Burnley and Sheff Utd have shown that with a smart plan in place smaller clubs with limited budgets can survive in the PL. It was obvious when Norwich went up that unless they changed their style of play they'd be coming straight back down, as they conceded the most goals of any Championship winners in over a decade. Failure to address that is a pretty big oversight and as a Norwich fan I wouldn't be very happy with these defeatist comments from a manager who clearly did not put the right strategy in place to give the club the best chance of avoiding relegation.

I always find that the benchmark on "how not to deal with promotion" is the Fulham example where they spent 100m, wasted it and came back down.

Ultimately there is a happy medium between the 2 approaches. The main issue is Farke's attitude as he had basically written the season off before it started, saying there was a 95% chance of relegation and compared it to men v boys. There is no point being promoted and having that attitude, I dont like it similar to when teams dismiss cup hopes or when teams give their all to get a place in the Europa League then (like Burnley for example) basically treat it as an unwanted distraction, even though it is a once in a generation chance and youve worked so hard to get there.

By all means be prudent, dont overspend but strengthen the team with some calculated and shrewd additions who arent total gambles and who if worst case scenario would stand out if you do get relegated.

A lot of their players, Cantwell, Aarons, Buendia, Lewis and Godfrey seem to be attracting vultures but I am not sure which if any are Premier League players.

 

[roversfan99]

19 minutes ago, KS Cracovia said:

Well it looks like Leeds are finally going to reach the promised land. They have been the best team in the Division being honest. I can't wait to see Bielsa in the PL against the top teams. I just hope he isn't as stubborn as he appears to be and adds to the squad and actually plays them. I can imagine him buying a £30m striker and having him on the bench and playing Lord Patrick.

Rovers are still in with a chance of the play offs. 3 very winnable games coming up. Had a decent bit of form to be fair.

I find the criticism of Bamford really excessive from the outside. He has a very competitive goal record, and whenever I see Leeds, he leads the line well, he works hard, he makes clever runs and he walks into the vast, vast majority of clubs in the division, barring Fulham and maybe at a push Forest. I get that he misses his chances but he scores goals too.

The job Bielsa has done is remarkable and fair play to Leeds for thinking outside the box and getting such a big name from abroad. I recall a lot of people dismissing him when he came and of course he needs paying well but when we have paid 12m in the last 2 years on strikers who have contributed about 5 goals combined, and the manager is the most important person, Bielsa will now be seen as a bargain.

[islander200]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

They did change how they played as well, they just weren't good enough. The manager really being given free reign to waffle with those comments. He has earned that right I suppose. Bad start next season though and he might change his tune about whether he "did it the right way"

Interesting to see if the repeated clubs will stick with their managers next season. I suspect Norwich, Villa and Bournemouth all would. 

Don't think Villa will keep Smith 

[DE.]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

One of Mowbray's main attributes, at least to his acolytes, is his honesty yet here is Farke being slated for being in those now immortal words = open and honest. Odd.

Just because somebody is honest doesn't mean everything they say should be lauded, though. If somebody told me that they honestly thought the world was flat I wouldn't applaud them just because they were being truthful with me, I'd disagree because it's nonsense.

Time will tell whether chucking the season works out for Norwich or not. They'll obviously be better off financially for some time, but the Championship is far from easy to get out of even if you do have some cash behind you.

[roversfan99]

Even if the logic was there regarding essentially chucking a season, which I question, it is difficult to stomach any team writing off something they spent a season grafting to earn a place in as easily as that.

[chaddyrovers]

 

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Farke was following orders from his Board who spent next to nothing after promotion. They had debts to resolve first.

Barring a miracle they expected relegation and I think they are planning a more serious promotion bid in the season to come.

They were promoted last season under Farke earlier than expected and found themselves with the unexpected bonus in their "slow build" of a season of PL money etc etc

Going into a defensive mode in the PL with the players at his disposal and not allowed to buy much would not have worked either and he's not a lump it merchant like Ginger.

One of Mowbray's main attributes, at least to his acolytes, is his honesty yet here is Farke being slated for being in those now immortal words = open and honest. Odd.

Yes they are also disappointed to be relegated BUT at least they got there

You are spot on that Farke was orders from Board and their sporting director Stuart Webber. Webber picked Farke and their clearly agree on the club policy of not over spending. 

Their players will be better for their experiences this season

35 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I always find that the benchmark on "how not to deal with promotion" is the Fulham example where they spent 100m, wasted it and came back down.

Ultimately there is a happy medium between the 2 approaches. The main issue is Farke's attitude as he had basically written the season off before it started, saying there was a 95% chance of relegation and compared it to men v boys. There is no point being promoted and having that attitude, I dont like it similar to when teams dismiss cup hopes or when teams give their all to get a place in the Europa League then (like Burnley for example) basically treat it as an unwanted distraction, even though it is a once in a generation chance and youve worked so hard to get there.

By all means be prudent, dont overspend but strengthen the team with some calculated and shrewd additions who arent total gambles and who if worst case scenario would stand out if you do get relegated.

A lot of their players, Cantwell, Aarons, Buendia, Lewis and Godfrey seem to be attracting vultures but I am not sure which if any are Premier League players.

 

3 years ago Norwich were days away from entering administration due to overspending in their PL days and not getting back at the 1st time. They sold Maddison to Leicester and Murphy. 

The board under Ed balls and Smith have had to made cutbacks. Webber was brought in to oversee a completely restructuring the football side of the club into the scouting, recruitment, academy and cost of signing players. Under Webber and Farke they have signed some quality players from Foreign leagues like Pukki(free), Buendia, etc. Plus bring through academy players like Aarons, Lewis, Godfrey and Cantwell. 

Aarons and Lewis have PL interested from clubs with the Premier League. 

20 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Don't think Villa will keep Smith 

I would keep Smith as he knows the championship and I would replace their sporting director who was behind majority of these signings at Villa this season 

 

[Mattyblue]

Just saw a tweet that says with 3 games to go, no club is mathematically guaranteed to be in the Championship next season.

Without doubt the best competition in the country.

[Miller11]

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Just saw a tweet that says with 3 games to go, no club is mathematically guaranteed to be in the Championship next season.

Without doubt the best competition in the country.

That tweet got me looking at fixtures and working things out. Put simply, we need maximum points out of our next two games, and the teams above us not to. 
 

That would take it in to the final game.

[chaddyrovers]

Stuart Webber's interview on Norwich City and going forward. 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[roversfan99]

24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

You are spot on that Farke was orders from Board and their sporting director Stuart Webber. Webber picked Farke and their clearly agree on the club policy of not over spending. 

Their players will be better for their experiences this season

3 years ago Norwich were days away from entering administration due to overspending in their PL days and not getting back at the 1st time. They sold Maddison to Leicester and Murphy. 

The board under Ed balls and Smith have had to made cutbacks. Webber was brought in to oversee a completely restructuring the football side of the club into the scouting, recruitment, academy and cost of signing players. Under Webber and Farke they have signed some quality players from Foreign leagues like Pukki(free), Buendia, etc. Plus bring through academy players like Aarons, Lewis, Godfrey and Cantwell. 

Aarons and Lewis have PL interested from clubs with the Premier League. 

I would keep Smith as he knows the championship and I would replace their sporting director who was behind majority of these signings at Villa this season 

 

You've again as you tend to gone off on a random tangent. There are not two options, either massively overspend in a haphazard manner, or accept relegation before kicking a ball. There is a happy medium in between.

Obviously their strategy to get promoted worked, but be bloody competitive once you get there, dont write yourself off before a ball is kicked. There are some poor teams near the bottom of the Premier League. Firstly, you are taking the whole spirit out of the game if you are working so hard to get promoted and not even giving everything to try and stay there. What is the point? Same with Burnley, they qualified for Europe after really grafting all season, a once in a generation opportunity, they played weakened teams and got knocked out in the qualifiers. Why did Burnley bother qualifying for Europe and why did Norwich bother even getting promoted if the prize was almost an inconvenience? As a fan, both approaches would have had me absolutely fuming.

Totally understand being prudent, totally understand not spending wildly and desperately like teams have in years gone by. But to spend absolutely bugger all, not even calculated and clever additions, maybe a bit of experience and knowhow to help the kids they have in defence, even if they spent 10, 15, 20 million, a fraction of what they earn, improve the squad, try and stay up, totally against the spirit of the game and also any logic to just accept defeat before youve kicked a ball. Make no mistake, the best solution was to be if they gave it a go and managed to stay up, that can be done and trumps being a yo yo club.

Regarding the players I mentioned, you would think that a team for which half of the players are apparently going to be signed up by Premier League clubs, that they could have been a bit more competitive.

[MarkBRFC]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You've again as you tend to gone off on a random tangent. There are not two options, either massively overspend in a haphazard manner, or accept relegation before kicking a ball. There is a happy medium in between.

Obviously their strategy to get promoted worked, but be bloody competitive once you get there, dont write yourself off before a ball is kicked. There are some poor teams near the bottom of the Premier League. Firstly, you are taking the whole spirit out of the game if you are working so hard to get promoted and not even giving everything to try and stay there. What is the point? Same with Burnley, they qualified for Europe after really grafting all season, a once in a generation opportunity, they played weakened teams and got knocked out in the qualifiers. Why did Burnley bother qualifying for Europe and why did Norwich bother even getting promoted if the prize was almost an inconvenience? As a fan, both approaches would have had me absolutely fuming.

Totally understand being prudent, totally understand not spending wildly and desperately like teams have in years gone by. But to spend absolutely bugger all, not even calculated and clever additions, maybe a bit of experience and knowhow to help the kids they have in defence, even if they spent 10, 15, 20 million, a fraction of what they earn, improve the squad, try and stay up, totally against the spirit of the game and also any logic to just accept defeat before youve kicked a ball. Make no mistake, the best solution was to be if they gave it a go and managed to stay up, that can be done and trumps being a yo yo club.

Regarding the players I mentioned, you would think that a team for which half of the players are apparently going to be signed up by Premier League clubs, that they could have been a bit more competitive.

Weird isn't it, but that's modern football for you for some clubs.

Qualifying for Europe is a great achievement, actually being in it seems to be a hindrance. We have been guilty of that at times, I'm thinking the games against CSKA and Genclerbirligi under Souness.

On a slightly different note, but it drives me mad that teams situated in midtable in the top flight play weakened teams in the League & FA Cup, these clubs should be throwing absolutely everything at the chance to win a major trophy.

Edited July 13, 2020 by MarkBRFC

[JHRover]

Norwich and Burnley don't have billionaire owners. Far from it they are paupers in football terms and can't afford to gamble.

We do. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

You've again as you tend to gone off on a random tangent. There are not two options, either massively overspend in a haphazard manner, or accept relegation before kicking a ball. There is a happy medium in between.

Obviously their strategy to get promoted worked, but be bloody competitive once you get there, dont write yourself off before a ball is kicked. There are some poor teams near the bottom of the Premier League. Firstly, you are taking the whole spirit out of the game if you are working so hard to get promoted and not even giving everything to try and stay there. What is the point? Same with Burnley, they qualified for Europe after really grafting all season, a once in a generation opportunity, they played weakened teams and got knocked out in the qualifiers. Why did Burnley bother qualifying for Europe and why did Norwich bother even getting promoted if the prize was almost an inconvenience? As a fan, both approaches would have had me absolutely fuming.

Totally understand being prudent, totally understand not spending wildly and desperately like teams have in years gone by. But to spend absolutely bugger all, not even calculated and clever additions, maybe a bit of experience and knowhow to help the kids they have in defence, even if they spent 10, 15, 20 million, a fraction of what they earn, improve the squad, try and stay up, totally against the spirit of the game and also any logic to just accept defeat before youve kicked a ball. Make no mistake, the best solution was to be if they gave it a go and managed to stay up, that can be done and trumps being a yo yo club.

Regarding the players I mentioned, you would think that a team for which half of the players are apparently going to be signed up by Premier League clubs, that they could have been a bit more competitive.

Have you read or watched the 2 links I posted on here? 

I would suggest you read or watch the video of Stuart Webber's comments.

He is very open, honest and blunt. He wouldn't put Norwich's financial future at risk. He said he is to blame for not spending and he isn't bothered he is blame cos he is protect the club's financial future. Its very easy for you to say spend this or spend that but if you listen to Webber's comments he wasn't prepared to do that. They have improvement in the Club academy, training facilities plus scouting and recruitment departments within the club. Norwich don't have an owners with millions after millions to spend. When Webber was bought in was to change their reliant on their owners and run the club on a sound financial footing 

Norwich was set to go bust only 3 years ago before they sold Maddison and Murphy.

You mention Burnley? But didn't they go up then got relegated and then got promote season after? 

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Have you read or watched the 2 links I posted on here? 

I would suggest you read or watch the video of Stuart Webber's comments.

He is very open, honest and blunt. He wouldn't put Norwich's financial future at risk. He said he is to blame for not spending and he isn't bothered he is blame cos he is protect the club's financial future. Its very easy for you to say spend this or spend that but if you listen to Webber's comments he wasn't prepared to do that. They have improvement in the Club academy, training facilities plus scouting and recruitment departments within the club. 

Norwich was set to go bust only 3 years ago before they sold Maddison and Murphy.

 

 

Exactly right. Norwich are rebuilding their assets both off and on the pitch and as you posted before the PL experience their younger players now have is a windfall bonus.

In a previous interview I read Farke was saying how the promotion early in his tenure took him and the Club by suprise.

Maybe they should have kept their debt, not invested in infrastructure and spent a fortune on players .... And maybe still get relegated. Now that would have caused a witch hunt.

As it is they are well set up to go again.

Whether that works or not is a completely different story.

A final thought is that Covid effects may make their approach look look well chosen.

Anyway that's them and this is us so if we now win 3 on the bounce we have every chance of buying a lottery ticket. Funnier things have happened in this Funny Old Game.

 

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Exactly right. Norwich are rebuilding their assets both off and on the pitch and as you posted before the PL experience their younger players now have is a windfall bonus.

In a previous interview I read Farke was saying how the promotion early in his tenure took him and the Club by suprise.

Maybe they should have kept their debt, not invested in infrastructure and spent a fortune on players .... And maybe still get relegated. Now that would have caused a witch hunt.

As it is they are well set up to go again.

Whether that works or not is a completely different story.

Webber has rebuilt that club where it is a better financial footing then when he took over as cover. 

I was impressed by his openness and honest in telling fans, pundits and other people that he was to blame for not over spending and insisting he make the right decisions

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Have you read or watched the 2 links I posted on here? 

I would suggest you read or watch the video of Stuart Webber's comments.

He is very open, honest and blunt. He wouldn't put Norwich's financial future at risk. He said he is to blame for not spending and he isn't bothered he is blame cos he is protect the club's financial future. Its very easy for you to say spend this or spend that but if you listen to Webber's comments he wasn't prepared to do that. They have improvement in the Club academy, training facilities plus scouting and recruitment departments within the club. Norwich don't have an owners with millions after millions to spend. When Webber was bought in was to change their reliant on their owners and run the club on a sound financial footing 

Norwich was set to go bust only 3 years ago before they sold Maddison and Murphy.

You mention Burnley? But didn't they go up then got relegated and then got promote season after? 

 

 

 

No and im not interested enough to watch it. I stand by my comments that it makes no sense to accept relegation and come out with quotes like it was men against boys and that it was almost certain from the beginning. You relish and cherish the promotion and the prize it brings. Theres a happy middle ground between over spending and not spending at all and giving up before youve started. It can be low spending compared to the prize, 10-20m say just to help out the team from last year. That money could be spent in a calculated way and potentially recouped or even profited on even if they did go down. If I was a Norwich fan I would be annoyed not that theyve gone down but that manager and chairman alike accepted it before it happened. We spent more than them last summer.

1 hour ago, MarkBRFC said:

Weird isn't it, but that's modern football for you for some clubs.

Qualifying for Europe is a great achievement, actually being in it seems to be a hindrance. We have been guilty of that at times, I'm thinking the games against CSKA and Genclerbirligi under Souness.

On a slightly different note, but it drives me mad that teams situated in midtable in the top flight play weakened teams in the League & FA Cup, these clubs should be throwing absolutely everything at the chance to win a major trophy.

But its something youve grafted for to become one of the top 7 teams in tnlhe country. Even if it does jeapordise your league season slightly, its worth it because of the memories. All of these European away days would be great memories and experiences that might never come round again and you cant sacrifice them in order to try and replicate that league season otherwise you are going round in circles.

Absolutely bang on regarding that last comment. We finished 6th twice and 7th in the Premier League post 2001 but the most memorable season is the one we won a cup in. Football is about memories like that.

I remember when Wigan won the cup and went down and it created a media driven question, would you rather win the cup or stay up? (Obviously they arent mutually exclusive so its a flawed question anyway) Id take winning the cup every day of the week. 

[roversfan99]

58 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Exactly right. Norwich are rebuilding their assets both off and on the pitch and as you posted before the PL experience their younger players now have is a windfall bonus.

In a previous interview I read Farke was saying how the promotion early in his tenure took him and the Club by suprise.

Maybe they should have kept their debt, not invested in infrastructure and spent a fortune on players .... And maybe still get relegated. Now that would have caused a witch hunt.

As it is they are well set up to go again.

Whether that works or not is a completely different story.

A final thought is that Covid effects may make their approach look look well chosen.

Anyway that's them and this is us so if we now win 3 on the bounce we have every chance of buying a lottery ticket. Funnier things have happened in this Funny Old Game.

 

Their assets on the pitch will now be prematurely poached from the look of it.

I totally get prudence and not spending loads like Fulham did, like Villa have. But why is the only alternative to that not spending at all and accepting relegation before it happens? Surely there is a middle ground.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

No and im not interested enough to watch it. I stand by my comments that it makes no sense to accept relegation and come out with quotes like it was men against boys and that it was almost certain from the beginning. You relish and cherish the promotion and the prize it brings. Theres a happy middle ground between over spending and not spending at all and giving up before youve started. It can be low spending compared to the prize, 10-20m say just to help out the team from last year. That money could be spent in a calculated way and potentially recouped or even profited on even if they did go down. If I was a Norwich fan I would be annoyed not that theyve gone down but that manager and chairman alike accepted it before it happened. We spent more than them last summer.

So if you aren't interested enough to watch the Webber's interview then why debate the issue. Cos he answered your questions in the interview. 

As Webber said in the interview he wasn't prepare to risk the financial future of the club and put the club on sound financial footing. Its easy for you to say they should have said x amount of money but you need to look beyond your own opinion and look at the reasons cited by Stuart Webber, Daniel Farke and their board

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Their assets on the pitch will now be prematurely poached from the look of it.

I totally get prudence and not spending loads like Fulham did, like Villa have. But why is the only alternative to that not spending at all and accepting relegation before it happens? Surely there is a middle ground.

Well if you had look at the Webber's interview He stated their young talent players wont be sold on cheap.