Championship season 2019-20

[dingles staying down 4ever]

How long will Cocu get at Derby? Listening to Talksport yesterday the fans are turning.

[Atko's Engine]

This is why I think our start is far from a disaster, and those who want TM out on the back of it are way too hard and premature in their judgement. 

He's a steady, solid manager with knowledge, passion & respect within the game. Not spectacular or flashy by any means, but being that won't rebuild this club.

There's such a long way to go this season. Those that have shot out of the traps (Swansea & Charlton especially) will almost certainly fall back into the pack.  We're taking time to gel & find the right combinations, but there's top 6 quality in our squad in this league if we can find the right system going forward and cut out silly defensive errors at the back. IMO we're not far off being realistic top 6 challengers come March / April, at which point anything can happen.

 

 

 

[Mattyblue]

I honestly don’t think we are close to being a top 6 side and talking to plenty of our fans yesterday that was a fairly shared view.

[Blue blood]

6 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

This is why I think our start is far from a disaster, and those who want TM out on the back of it are way too hard and premature in their judgement. 

He's a steady, solid manager with knowledge, passion & respect within the game. Not spectacular or flashy by any means, but being that won't rebuild this club.

There's such a long way to go this season. Those that have shot out of the traps (Swansea & Charlton especially) will almost certainly fall back into the pack.  We're taking time to gel & find the right combinations, but there's top 6 quality in our squad in this league if we can find the right system going forward and cut out silly defensive errors at the back. IMO we're not far off being realistic top 6 challengers come March / April, at which point anything can happen.

 

 

 

We're no nearer to gelling than the start of last season! To say we're taking time to find the right combination is an understatement. We either can't score or can't defend, have spent £15 mill on strikers who can't get in the team up front and still are using a midfielder as a stand in right back.

Added to which if we don't succeed this season we take a huge step backwards as arguably 6 first team players - Walton, Cunningham, Tosin, Downing, Johnson and Graham - will need replacing. No way that can be considered a slow build. And given TMs indifferent ability in the transfer market the idea of replacing so many players fills me with dread. 

[Stuart]

3 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I honestly don’t think we are close to being a top 6 side and talking to plenty of our fans yesterday that was a fairly shared view.

After 3 Championship windows and our biggest transfer budget since the parachute money ran out that’s a poor position.

September will be a decent test of our prospects in my view.

[rovers11]

I think we’re a top quality striker away from being a top 6 side. If we had someone like Assombolomba who guarantees 15-20 goals a season then we’d be up there. 

It’s clear TM hasn’t found the right formula for his attacking positions yet. Dack and Downing are probably the only two certain starters up there right now as they both have quality you can’t leave out, but the other positions are up for grabs. Time to drop Armstrong and give Buckley an extended spell in the team (which I think he will); and forget the idea of playing Gallagher out wide (although he has worked hard out there). 

I do think we need to keep things in perspective as we were at rock bottom 3 years ago with the worst Rovers side in my lifetime. We’ve come along way since then and are slowly progressing. The likes of Buckley, JRC, Travis, Nyambe, Butterworth means I think we have a good chance of promotion over the next couple of years. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

13 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Huddersfield need a new manager in asap.,

unfortunately the number 1 candidate is busy

https://www.oficrete.gr/ofi-crete-news/ofi-crete-appoints-steve-kean-as-a-recruiting-director

However I wouldn't be surprised to see a return of Big Sam at some point this season

[47er]

15 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

I think we’re a top quality striker away from being a top 6 side. If we had someone like Assombolomba who guarantees 15-20 goals a season then we’d be up there. 

 

There's an indictment then, we've spent £12M on 2 of them! How much more till we find one?

[47er]

2 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

This is why I think our start is far from a disaster, and those who want TM out on the back of it are way too hard and premature in their judgement. 

He's a steady, solid manager with knowledge, passion & respect within the game. Not spectacular or flashy by any means, but being that won't rebuild this club.

There's such a long way to go this season. Those that have shot out of the traps (Swansea & Charlton especially) will almost certainly fall back into the pack.  We're taking time to gel & find the right combinations, but there's top 6 quality in our squad in this league if we can find the right system going forward and cut out silly defensive errors at the back. IMO we're not far off being realistic top 6 challengers come March / April, at which point anything can happen.

 

 

 

Premature?!! He's been here nearly 3 years!!

[Atko's Engine]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

We're no nearer to gelling than the start of last season! To say we're taking time to find the right combination is an understatement. We either can't score or can't defend, have spent £15 mill on strikers who can't get in the team up front and still are using a midfielder as a stand in right back.

Added to which if we don't succeed this season we take a huge step backwards as arguably 6 first team players - Walton, Cunningham, Tosin, Downing, Johnson and Graham - will need replacing. No way that can be considered a slow build. And given TMs indifferent ability in the transfer market the idea of replacing so many players fills me with dread. 

Every team in every division will probably have a minimum turnaround of 5 or 6 players every summer so nothing new there. You can still build a stronger squad whilst doing so.

Some of the changes you allude to for next season are already happening now. TM is trying to phase the Graham / Dack combo out now in favour of a less direct approach. Johnson should have at least 1 more season in him at this standard. Yes we could lose Dack, but the money received for him and his relatively indifferent start to this season means he may not be missed that much. Meanwhile we have Rothwell, Travis, Buckley, JRC, Butterworth, Nyambe, Magloire all in or around the 1st team squad, with Chapman, Vale, Lyons all showing well at U23 level amongst others.

The target's not (or shouldn't be) promotion or bust this season for Mowbray, though that should be the bullseye.  It should to be organic & tangible improvement from last season, meaning if we don't go up this season then we're better placed to do so the next.

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

I honestly don’t think we are close to being a top 6 side and talking to plenty of our fans yesterday that was a fairly shared view.

Start of the season I'd have shook hands on safety and I've seen nothing to change that. I think we are capable of midtable and may well end up there but could easily get sucked into the relegation pack. Too many issues and inconsistency to expect any more. A shame because clubs with lesser resources are going to be up there which shows it can be done.

Fortunately we aren't consistently poor and we can grind out results particularly at home which should see us to 50 points 

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

This is why I think our start is far from a disaster, and those who want TM out on the back of it are way too hard and premature in their judgement. 

He's a steady, solid manager with knowledge, passion & respect within the game. Not spectacular or flashy by any means, but being that won't rebuild this club.

There's such a long way to go this season. Those that have shot out of the traps (Swansea & Charlton especially) will almost certainly fall back into the pack.  We're taking time to gel & find the right combinations, but there's top 6 quality in our squad in this league if we can find the right system going forward and cut out silly defensive errors at the back. IMO we're not far off being realistic top 6 challengers come March / April, at which point anything can happen.

 

 

 

I think you are right to be honest. 

People thought Stoke would be top 6(including myself) and look whats gone on there. League is very competitive and we are 3 points off top 6 and 3 points off bottom 3. Shows how open this league is. 

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

I honestly don’t think we are close to being a top 6 side and talking to plenty of our fans yesterday that was a fairly shared view.

would you say Swansea or Charlton are a top 6 side squad wise? 

[Mattyblue]

Probably not, I imagine both will drop away. Charlton are continuing the trend of many a promoted side showing early season momentum.

[rovers11]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

There's an indictment then, we've spent £12M on 2 of them! How much more till we find one?

I think the difficulty is the wages that a top class striker would want to come here. We can’t afford the break our wage structure, the wages to turnover ratio is already too high. 

You therefore have to invest money in younger strikers on low-ish wages who have the potential to develop into top strikers. That’s what we’ve done with Gallagher and Brereton. I think both will be good players at this level and we’ll see the fruits of that given time. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by rovers11

[roversfan99]

Just now, rovers11 said:

I think the difficulty is the wages that a top class striker would want to come here. We can’t afford the break our wage structure, the wages to turnover ratio is already too high. 

You therefore have to invest money in younger strikers on low-ish wages who have the potential to develop into top strikers. That’s what we’ve done with Gallagher and Brereton. I think both will be good players at this level and we’ll see the fruits of that given time. 

Shame that neither have shown signs of that as of yet.

[Bigdoggsteel]

I think if the players we have were used correctly, we would have a great chance. Im not critical of the manager over what he had for breakfast,like some are, but whatever about Bennett, who shouldn't be starting ahead of Nyambe, the whole Armstrong ahead of Rothwell thing is actually annoying me. Rothwell was ,and I dont think i am exaggerating when I say this, on fire at the end of last season. I would have put the house on him starting this season. I just do not see what Armstrong brings to the table that Rothwell doesn't. Ok,maybe pace, but its not as if Armstrong is consistently using it effectively. I watched Rothwell do things last season that showed his quality. It can't be defensively, nor should it be, because Armstrong is lazy. I am sick of watching him drop the head or jog back. The worst part is, he would actually be a great option off the bench against tired teams. Mowbray has mixed Rothwell and Armstrongs roles up. He is on his way to destroying Rothwell and that is disappointing to say the least. 

[K-Hod]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think if the players we have were used correctly, we would have a great chance. Im not critical of the manager over what he had for breakfast,like some are, but whatever about Bennett, who shouldn't be starting ahead of Nyambe, the whole Armstrong ahead of Rothwell thing is actually annoying me. Rothwell was ,and I dont think i am exaggerating when I say this, on fire at the end of last season. I would have put the house on him starting this season. I just do not see what Armstrong brings to the table that Rothwell doesn't. Ok,maybe pace, but its not as if Armstrong is consistently using it effectively. I watched Rothwell do things last season that showed his quality. It can't be defensively, nor should it be, because Armstrong is lazy. I am sick of watching him drop the head or jog back. The worst part is, he would actually be a great option off the bench against tired teams. Mowbray has mixed Rothwell and Armstrongs roles up. He is on his way to destroying Rothwell and that is disappointing to say the least. 

That’s just a bit silly.

Judging by the content of your post, I’d say you were more in agreement with a lot of posters on here and their main criticisms of the manager, to be fair.

[rovers11]

19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Shame that neither have shown signs of that as of yet.

Sadly not. Gallagher is a handful and I think he can become a player who links up play well and brings others into play. Brereton has yet to show us anything, but he is still very young. 

[Waggy76]

7 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

How long will Cocu get at Derby? Listening to Talksport yesterday the fans are turning.

The signing of Rooney , was a death knell Cocu !!!!

Done behind his back I suspect !

[Hi Mack]

I honestly believe our poor pre-season has affected our start. For some reason we played league 2 opposition apart from Rangers.

We seem to still be a yard behind in certain spells of the game. We are nowhere near top 6 at the moment. Our defensive unit

is far too weak to be challenging for the play off positions.

 

 

[Atko's Engine]

4 hours ago, 47er said:

Premature?!! He's been here nearly 3 years!!

Well, yes he has, but this is the first season he's started in the same division he finished the previous one in. 

His aim in his first summer window was to rebuild confidence in an ailing club and to build a squad to get out of L1 at the first time of asking, which he did.

His second full season was a very different task, the main aim being to consolidate our position in the Championship, which he did pretty comfortably. That takes a very different set of playing & managerial styles to achieve as the quality of opponent is much stronger.

This season (his third full season) is the first time he's starting in the same division he finished in, and this time the aim is top 6. Again, that takes a very different type of approach & better quality of player to achieve, and of course the jury's out on whether he can achieve that.

So to therefore say, just because he's been here for 3 years, that he's had 3 years to gel together a squad with a style (as opposed to just a team spirit) sufficient to get promoted to the PL is a little disingenuous.  Yes some clubs have bounced through with consecutive promotions, but they're the exception rather than the rule.

I don't expect to dissuade you (or anyone else)  from your opinion, which of course you are entitled to; I'm just giving mine, which I like to think is pretty even handed and realistic, all things considered.

[Blue blood]

4 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

Every team in every division will probably have a minimum turnaround of 5 or 6 players every summer so nothing new there. You can still build a stronger squad whilst doing so.

Some of the changes you allude to for next season are already happening now. TM is trying to phase the Graham / Dack combo out now in favour of a less direct approach. Johnson should have at least 1 more season in him at this standard. Yes we could lose Dack, but the money received for him and his relatively indifferent start to this season means he may not be missed that much. Meanwhile we have Rothwell, Travis, Buckley, JRC, Butterworth, Nyambe, Magloire all in or around the 1st team squad, with Chapman, Vale, Lyons all showing well at U23 level amongst others.

The target's not (or shouldn't be) promotion or bust this season for Mowbray, though that should be the bullseye.  It should to be organic & tangible improvement from last season, meaning if we don't go up this season then we're better placed to do so the next.

Hmm not sure every team is losing 5-6 key players. Admittedly early days but our initial attempts to phase Graham out really haven't worked at all. Bereton was a massive mistake and early signs are neither Gally or Armstrong are up to taking on his mantel even if they are ok players. Given we struggled to get in players this year and are short in places - for example centre back - without having to replace many key players (bar Mulgrew) the idea of doing so amidst so many important players going I don't think is that feasible. Add in TMs sketchy record in the transfer market and having to replace so many players is worrying. If you look at our first 2 seasons under TM in his first he didn't have a transfer window and did a decent job with what he had. In our promotion season 75% of the key players were all here (only Dack Smallwood and arguably Downing contributed considerably during that season.) Now credit must go to TM for utilising what he had well but he's never struck me as a good team builder or spotter of players. So a significant influxnof players in a season is a worry both as it's not TMs strength and the conditions/set up of the club don't help transfers either. 

As for youngsters coming through I don't think that's a massive strength of TMs either. Of the players you mention only Travis has come through well, 2 promising players you mention in Nayambe and Rothwell aren't getting much game time and have lost their positions to players who aren't primarily players in that position and if anything are regressing. And whilst all youngsters won't make it Raya and Nuttall being shipped out further suggests that bringing young players through is not a forte of the manager. His comments regarding the young players support my suspicions on this. That said at least they are on the bench and getting a bit of game time but it's not enough imo. 

Completely agree with you about what the target should be however my concern is your last sentence. With so many aging or leaving players we won't be better served to go up next season if we don't go up this one. We'll be left with a few of our older players declining and half a defence to sort out. If anything I feel meet year we will be starting from a much weaker base for the reasons outlined above. 

[Atko's Engine]

I guess we'll all just have to wait and see how it all pans out. We either improve on last season significantly (acceptable), marginally, not at all or deteriorate (all unacceptable).

I think there are credible signs that it can be the former and that TM deserves a fair crack of this season's whip to try; but I wholly understand the concern of others who don't share my optimism given that TM is not perfect and that's fine.

But canning him and rolling the new manager dice now would be counter productive and too risky in my opinion when, season on season, this club has improved to something approaching normality under his stewardship. 

 

[DE.]

I don't think many would advocate removing Mowbray at this stage in fairness. For better or worse he's been given this summer to build on last season and will be given the chance to show he can take us forward. I have my doubts but when you look across our squad we should be expecting better than where we finished last season. A left back who is considered an excellent Championship player, one of Derby's top players over the past few seasons in midfield alongside one of the brightest young talents we've had in some time. An attack which has the likes of Rothwell, Dack, Gallagher, Graham and Downing at its disposal. We bought a player from divisional rivals for £7m and spent £5m on a striker from a PL club. We haven't had to sell any of our best players in some time. We should absolutely be looking at an upwards trajectory, not more of the same. The next run of games will be a big indicator of where we can expect to finish this season, but for me 15th again can't be considered good enough. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by DE.

[Athlete]

7 hours ago, rovers11 said:

I think we’re a top quality striker away from being a top 6 side. If we had someone like Assombolomba who guarantees 15-20 goals a season then we’d be up there. 

It’s clear TM hasn’t found the right formula for his attacking positions yet. Dack and Downing are probably the only two certain starters up there right now as they both have quality you can’t leave out, but the other positions are up for grabs. Time to drop Armstrong and give Buckley an extended spell in the team (which I think he will); and forget the idea of playing Gallagher out wide (although he has worked hard out there). 

I do think we need to keep things in perspective as we were at rock bottom 3 years ago with the worst Rovers side in my lifetime. We’ve come along way since then and are slowly progressing. The likes of Buckley, JRC, Travis, Nyambe, Butterworth means I think we have a good chance of promotion over the next couple of years. 

We were rock bottom effectively Mowbray relegated two sides in one season us and Coventry their fans blamed TM bit like Coyle.. No if you think we'll progress under TM dodgy venus and their Coventry mate Waggot then you are seriously mistaken.. How much for Bereteon?