Championship season 2019-20

[jim mk2]

Lucky Boro ..... that's them safe and probably promoted next season.

Still livid we didn't get Warnock a few years ago. Complete no-brainer

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

And that’s all well and good, but you still need to appoint the right manager, as staying out of the third division is far more important for a club the size of Middlesbrough than this subjective ‘attractive football’. 

Woodgate never came across as having what it took.

That's why its crucial you have the right management team and structure around the club to allow you to do this. 

It was reported before Pulis left last summer that Woodgate would get the job. So wait so long to appoint him. 

 

[JacknOry]

Popular ex-players as managers rarely works out. Woodgate has never struck me as having the noodle for management anyway.

[davulsukur]

14 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Lucky Boro ..... that's them safe and probably promoted next season.

Still livid we didn't get Warnock a few years ago. Complete no-brainer

Comfortably one of the worst decisions our owners have made.

[Mattyblue]

1 minute ago, davulsukur said:

Comfortably one of the worst decisions our owners have made.

Now come on, they were badly advised and naive back then, cut them some slac... oh wait that was 2016, not 2010.

[Blue blood]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

Warnock in at Middlesbrough replacing Woodgate. That's them safe then.

Yep smart move if one that comes rather later than it should. Even with all the circumstances no way should Boro be where they are.

24 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Now come on, they were badly advised and naive back then, cut them some slac... oh wait that was 2016, not 2010.

Hang on they might have appointed the wrong man in 2016 but they backed him to the hil... Oh wait they didn't.

Interestingly whilst not championing Coyle as a good manager no one talks about the poor circumstances he had like they do with Woodgate. Seems a bit double standards to me. 

[roversfan99]

Definitely the correct decision, albeit very late and of course correcting a mistake that perhaps should never have happened.

Woodgate has as been touched on never appeared to be anything like a competent manager. Pulis finished 7th last season. They are now 21st. That cannot be defended or justified. Have they even lost much from last season either? Downing came here but couldnt start games contractually anyway. The likes of Flint, Mikel and Braithwaite all played bit part roles too. And the signing albeit not with loads of money from Woodgate have basically all been shite.

Warnock is a proven Championship manager and you couldnt wish for anyone better in this situation.

Ah the phrase "attractive football" often used to try and defend and cover up the fact that results are inadequate. The most attractive style of football will always be where your team scores more than the opposition.

[chaddyrovers]

Warnock's job is to keep them. No plans on whether he stay for next season

 

[chaddyrovers]

 

17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Definitely the correct decision, albeit very late and of course correcting a mistake that perhaps should never have happened.

Have they even lost much from last season either? Downing came here but couldnt start games contractually anyway. The likes of Flint, Mikel and Braithwaite all played bit part roles too. And the signing albeit not with loads of money from Woodgate have basically all been shite.

well that was Gibson's decision to appoint him. Yes he could have got Mark Warburton for example. 

The best thing Woodgate did was bring through some decent players from Academy like Keeper Pears, right back Spence, left back Coulson. 

The signings were rubbish there but did he make the signings or part of a transfer team that decide who to sign. I dont think Gibson give him the right support team off the pitch. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[chaddyrovers]

Here is report into Hull City owners and their decline. 

 

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Here is report into Hull City owners and their decline. 

 

Looks familiar. 

[Blue blood]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

well that was Gibson's decision to appoint him. Yes he could have got Mark Warburton for example. 

The best thing Woodgate did was bring through some decent players from Academy like Keeper Pears, right back Spence, left back Coulson. 

The signings were rubbish there but did he make the signings or part of a transfer team that decide who to sign. I dont think Gibson give him the right support team off the pitch. 

Well I'm not sure we can't blame him and think hes not a bad manager because he might not have made the signings. That seems to be looking for excuses for Woodgate. Also it'd mean we can't comment on anything as we don't know for sure 100 percent that he did or didn't. In fact it's a daft argument as I can equally use it to say you don't know he didn't make the signings and they are rubbish so he is a bad manager. Being honest mate it's a straw man argument and doesn't have any weight whatsoever. 

It's especially a poor argument given Gibson has a reputation of being a good chairman and supporting his managers in many ways. Aside from his reputation in the game there's evidence from the Monk saga on record that the manager is in control of who is brought. Add in that he has stuck by managers a long time - including Woodgate in what has been a poor season to now - and your claims that Woodgate hasn't been supported is fanciful.

You will reply well that's my opinion, but I again will answer, having an opinion doesn't make it true, especially when the evidence shows otherwise. 

Add in that lots of managers aren't supported as well as they like (even though it's not true but I am running with it) yet still do a decent job. Thinking of TM for example, he doesn't or hasn't had a great structure around him (albeit he is backed very well in other ways) but has done a solid job. Or look at all the managers who do better without a transfer window and with what they are given. Not being backed doesn't absolve the manager of responsibility or prevent him doing ok or well, it just makes it harder. 

One last thing on this - I have never once heard you defend Coyle for having his hands tied. (Apologies if wrong on this.) There was a manager who was really shafted in transfer fees. Now I don't dispute he was terrible, but more highlight how this not being backed and supported seems to get somewhat of a selective use! 

[roversfan99]

12 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

well that was Gibson's decision to appoint him. Yes he could have got Mark Warburton for example. 

The best thing Woodgate did was bring through some decent players from Academy like Keeper Pears, right back Spence, left back Coulson. 

The signings were rubbish there but did he make the signings or part of a transfer team that decide who to sign. I dont think Gibson give him the right support team off the pitch. 

It was the wrong decision to appoint him. He has never at any point appeared to be a competent manager and to be honest he has done well to last this long considering their dreadful results. I think he can have all of the excuses in the world but his signings were shite, his team selections were strange, he didnt get the best out of his players, and they have dropped 14 places in a matter of months. I cant see any teams rushing to appoint him as manager.

You mention Pears who he has started playing but he did sign a keeper called Stojanovic in January for over 1 million who has only played 1 game so he has had little alternative.

I have not seen anything to suggest that Woodgate didnt pick the signings. If it was a transfer team it should be scrapped like at Villa. People throwing players upon a manager without a plan or necessarily being wanted by the manager.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Blue blood said:

Well I'm not sure we can't blame him and think hes not a bad manager because he might not have made the signings. That seems to be looking for excuses for Woodgate. Also it'd mean we can't comment on anything as we don't know for sure 100 percent that he did or didn't. In fact it's a daft argument as I can equally use it to say you don't know he didn't make the signings and they are rubbish so he is a bad manager. Being honest mate it's a straw man argument and doesn't have any weight whatsoever. 

It's especially a poor argument given Gibson has a reputation of being a good chairman and supporting his managers in many ways. Aside from his reputation in the game there's evidence from the Monk saga on record that the manager is in control of who is brought. Add in that he has stuck by managers a long time - including Woodgate in what has been a poor season to now - and your claims that Woodgate hasn't been supported is fanciful.

You will reply well that's my opinion, but I again will answer, having an opinion doesn't make it true, especially when the evidence shows otherwise. 

Add in that lots of managers aren't supported as well as they like (even though it's not true but I am running with it) yet still do a decent job. Thinking of TM for example, he doesn't or hasn't had a great structure around him (albeit he is backed very well in other ways) but has done a solid job. Or look at all the managers who do better without a transfer window and with what they are given. Not being backed doesn't absolve the manager of responsibility or prevent him doing ok or well, it just makes it harder. 

One last thing on this - I have never once heard you defend Coyle for having his hands tied. (Apologies if wrong on this.) There was a manager who was really shafted in transfer fees. Now I don't dispute he was terrible, but more highlight how this not being backed and supported seems to get somewhat of a selective use! 

I may be mistaken but I think chaddy tried to claim that Coyle did have decent resources to sign who he signed.

Mowbray obviously has had more money than Woodgate and has signed a couple of really expensive disasters but he has also signed some real bargains (Dack, Armstrong, Holtby etc) and we are higher than when we started with him.

Agree with all of your very well put points regarding the argument that he MAY not have had full say on transfers. I think it is a really flawed argument as you say.

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

Hang on they might have appointed the wrong man in 2016 but they backed him to the hil... Oh wait they didn't.

 

At least Boro have replaced their failing manager before they drop back into the relegation zone just like we d ..... Oh. 

 

[Blue blood]

16 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I may be mistaken but I think chaddy tried to claim that Coyle did have decent resources to sign who he signed.

He spent £250 k on fees. That's 24 times less then Bereton alone. I think that's a fairly untenable view for someone to hold unless TM is held to a much much higher standard of account. 

Quote

Agree with all of your very well put points regarding the argument that he MAY not have had full say on transfers. I think it is a really flawed argument as you say.

Funnily enough this argument never is used the other way to temper praise of a candidate they like. 

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Warnock's job is to keep them. No plans on whether he stay for next season

 

I'd put money on him staying if he keeps them up and they ask him to stay. He can't say no. He can't give it up. 

[KS Cracovia]

3 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Popular ex-players as managers rarely works out. Woodgate has never struck me as having the noodle for management anyway.

His nickname is village idiot.

[KS Cracovia]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Warnock is a proven Championship manager and you couldnt wish for anyone better in this situation.

 

He was utterly useless at Leeds. In the same bracket as Steve Evans,Paul Heckingbottom and dare i say it Dave Hockaday. 

Colin was good in his day but his day has long gone. He should stick to getting caught watching porn in his office or keep driving round the garden on his tractor. 

 

[KS Cracovia]

Just now, KS Cracovia said:

 

That was a post by KS Cracovia not roversfan99

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, KS Cracovia said:

He was utterly useless at Leeds. In the same bracket as Steve Evans,Paul Heckingbottom and dare i say it Dave Hockaday. 

Colin was good in his day but his day has long gone. He should stick to getting caught watching porn in his office or keep driving round the garden on his tractor. 

His time at Leeds was admittedly underwhelming in quite a lengthy period of poor seasons for the club. His last 2 jobs have involved getting Cardiff promoted and saving Rotherham (very impressively) so I wouldnt write him off just yet and I'd certainly suggest that he is a better bet than the inept Woodgate.

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

It was the wrong decision to appoint him. He has never at any point appeared to be a competent manager and to be honest he has done well to last this long considering their dreadful results. I think he can have all of the excuses in the world but his signings were shite, his team selections were strange, he didnt get the best out of his players, and they have dropped 14 places in a matter of months. I cant see any teams rushing to appoint him as manager.

You mention Pears who he has started playing but he did sign a keeper called Stojanovic in January for over 1 million who has only played 1 game so he has had little alternative.

I have not seen anything to suggest that Woodgate didnt pick the signings. If it was a transfer team it should be scrapped like at Villa. People throwing players upon a manager without a plan or necessarily being wanted by the manager.

Yes I agree with your 1st point that Gibson made a huge mistake in appointing Woodgate. His last team selection at the weekend I never understood at all cos it was so strange. But I would be asking questions of Steve Gibson and the process of why he picked Woodgate after Pulis and the results behind that. 

I think alot of clubs have transfer teams or committee who pick the signings not just the manager decision nowadays. Pochettino at Spurs last summer made reference to him not have overall say on signings or Jokanovic at Fulham when promoted last time, Managers or head coaches don't have final say which signings come in, Which is fine if the head coach is comfortable with that like Dean Smith who has worked under that Brentford and now Villa. 

7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I may be mistaken but I think chaddy tried to claim that Coyle did have decent resources to sign who he signed.

Mowbray obviously has had more money than Woodgate and has signed a couple of really expensive disasters but he has also signed some real bargains (Dack, Armstrong, Holtby etc) and we are higher than when we started with him.

Agree with all of your very well put points regarding the argument that he MAY not have had full say on transfers. I think it is a really flawed argument as you say.

Look at the signings he made which was made which was 6 free signings, 1 cash buy and 6 loans in the Summer. Players like Graham, Mulgrew and Stokes would have been fairly good wages. Coyle signed some poor players like Stokes, Brown and loan signings of Samuelsen, Byrne and Hendrie was a waste of time. 

6 hours ago, JHRover said:

I'd put money on him staying if he keeps them up and they ask him to stay. He can't say no. He can't give it up. 

Warnock has said that he cant give it up today, 

 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Yes I agree with your 1st point that Gibson made a huge mistake in appointing Woodgate. His last team selection at the weekend I never understood at all cos it was so strange. But I would be asking questions of Steve Gibson and the process of why he picked Woodgate after Pulis and the results behind that. 

I think alot of clubs have transfer teams or committee who pick the signings not just the manager decision nowadays. Pochettino at Spurs last summer made reference to him not have overall say on signings or Jokanovic at Fulham when promoted last time, Managers or head coaches don't have final say which signings come in, Which is fine if the head coach is comfortable with that like Dean Smith who has worked under that Brentford and now Villa. 

Look at the signings he made which was made which was 6 free signings, 1 cash buy and 6 loans in the Summer. Players like Graham, Mulgrew and Stokes would have been fairly good wages. Coyle signed some poor players like Stokes, Brown and loan signings of Samuelsen, Byrne and Hendrie was a waste of time. 

Warnock has said that he cant give it up today, 

 

I think he was trying to pander to the fans, former player, promises of "good football" the usual story really.

The transfer committee policy certainly isnt "fine" at Villa, Smith may be ok with it but hes managing his boyhood club. It has ended disastrously in terms of the signings actually made.

You can throw a lot of insults at Coyle who is a hopeless manager but certainly one of them isnt that he had anything other than peanuts to spend. He had to sell his best 2 players in Hanley and Duffy, and needed quite a few in all bar one he couldnt spend a fee on, and that was 250k for Bristol City outcast Derrick Williams. He did sign a lot of shite but he had no money and the likes of Graham, Williams and Mulgrew have contributed heavily under Mowbray who has had the privelidge of only selling Raya and having loads to spend in comparison.

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Well I'm not sure we can't blame him and think hes not a bad manager because he might not have made the signings. That seems to be looking for excuses for Woodgate. Also it'd mean we can't comment on anything as we don't know for sure 100 percent that he did or didn't. In fact it's a daft argument as I can equally use it to say you don't know he didn't make the signings and they are rubbish so he is a bad manager. Being honest mate it's a straw man argument and doesn't have any weight whatsoever. 

It's especially a poor argument given Gibson has a reputation of being a good chairman and supporting his managers in many ways. Aside from his reputation in the game there's evidence from the Monk saga on record that the manager is in control of who is brought. Add in that he has stuck by managers a long time - including Woodgate in what has been a poor season to now - and your claims that Woodgate hasn't been supported is fanciful.

You will reply well that's my opinion, but I again will answer, having an opinion doesn't make it true, especially when the evidence shows otherwise. 

Add in that lots of managers aren't supported as well as they like (even though it's not true but I am running with it) yet still do a decent job. Thinking of TM for example, he doesn't or hasn't had a great structure around him (albeit he is backed very well in other ways) but has done a solid job. Or look at all the managers who do better without a transfer window and with what they are given. Not being backed doesn't absolve the manager of responsibility or prevent him doing ok or well, it just makes it harder. 

One last thing on this - I have never once heard you defend Coyle for having his hands tied. (Apologies if wrong on this.) There was a manager who was really shafted in transfer fees. Now I don't dispute he was terrible, but more highlight how this not being backed and supported seems to get somewhat of a selective use! 

Gibson makes the final decision to appointed Woodgate at the time and it was known in football that he would be appointed before the season finished. 

No excuses for Woodgate as he know how the club wanted to move forward by cutting the wage bill and bringing through more youth players. 

on your point about Woodgate not being control of signings. It was something that was mention on the podcast of not the top 20 which focus on EFL today where it mentions that Woodgate has said publicly he wasn't sole responsible for the signings bujt early in signings he said he was. I will look for the Woodgate's quotes and posted them if I can find them. 

I think Woodgate lack a experience recruitment people next to him helping him. 

on the Coyle point I have replied on roversfan99 on this issue so I wont go over it again

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You can throw a lot of insults at Coyle who is a hopeless manager but certainly one of them isnt that he had anything other than peanuts to spend. He had to sell his best 2 players in Hanley and Duffy, and needed quite a few in all bar one he couldnt spend a fee on, and that was 250k for Bristol City outcast Derrick Williams. He did sign a lot of shite but he had no money and the likes of Graham, Williams and Mulgrew have contributed heavily under Mowbray who has had the privelidge of only selling Raya and having loads to spend in comparison.

Warnock was happy to come and work in those circumstances and from what we know he was set to be appoint as manager at Rovers. But some how Coyle got the job, Now I remember a conversation on twitter me, you and someone else who I wont posted his name where he told you about how Coyle was appointed and the budget he had. Have you forget that? also did you not see the article that the Football league paper did on how Coyle got the job from under Warnock? Plus didn't Coyle try to sign Stuart Armstrong in the summer who would have been a good signing for us if he had got him. So Coyle knew the situation before he joined so I dont have much sympathy for him

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The transfer committee policy certainly isnt "fine" at Villa, Smith may be ok with it but hes managing his boyhood club. It has ended disastrously in terms of the signings actually made

Smith also worked under a similar model at Brentford where they have Philip Giles as Director of football