Raya joins Brentford

[roversfan99]

Yep, not sure it really matters what players Mowbray scouted or was linked with if he didnt sign them, then its irrelevant.

It is even more questionable if the criteria was experience and he signed one at the same age as Raya.

[chaddyrovers]

32 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

If he knew from April that Raya was leaving that makes it even worse that he was sold before a replacement came in. And it's no good have players lined up you need to get them signed up as Tony himself said 'You want to strengthen before you lose any players'. A shame that he didn't do what he said.

Its very easy to say this when you aren't dealing with the player, agents, clubs and what is said and agree in meeting. 

29 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Yep, not sure it really matters what players Mowbray scouted or was linked with if he didnt sign them, then its irrelevant.

It is even more questionable if the criteria was experience and he signed one at the same age as Raya.

No its irrelevant to you not to everyone. 

Mowbray explained what happened in the summer with the keeper search. Very easy for you to sit and home and post what you have when you aren't involved in the meetings, negotiating transfers and contracts.  

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Its very easy to say this when you aren't dealing with the player, agents, clubs and what is said and agree in meeting. 

It wasn't me saying it, it was Tony Mowbray saying it. Read it, it is in the link below Mowbray literally says 'You want to strengthen before you lose any players.'

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17732435.mowbray-rovers-stand-terms-transfer-deals/

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

It wasn't me saying it, it was Tony Mowbray saying it. Read it, it is in the link below Mowbray literally says 'You want to strengthen before you lose any players.'

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17732435.mowbray-rovers-stand-terms-transfer-deals/

Most managers said this but in reality very rarely happens. Players, their agents, clubs and other factors to deal with. 

[Blue blood]

56 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well we didn't address the keeper issue down to Walton staying with us. And being number 1 here. 

We are scouting keepers and being linked with keepers. 

I got the impression from the article we would look at the keeper situation regardless of if Walton stayed. That's how I read it. It doesn't say if Walton goes back we will look or we will look in case he goes back but that we will look for someone in January (the inference being Walton hasn't done that well.) 

Quote

Walton was signed towards the end of July. Plus depends on the terms we got the loan. I don't think he been has bad as some of you posted. Yes he made some mistakes but every keeper doed including the best ones in the world. 

It speaks volumes about a keeper that the best slant on the debate is he hasn't been as bad as some have thought! It really shows that we have a very limited keeper as our number one. (Contrast this with how we talk about Tosin or Downing.) 

Quote

Well you already told you why Raya went so it's a mooted point. I said last April Raya would be sold in the summer. Clear to see. We had 2 line up but in the end went back home..

Again this doesn't reflect well on the club. If we knew since April we had to get a new one in and still couldn't find one of a desired calibre then it shows the club in an even worse light. 

I also think this shows Raya was thrown under the bus a bit for our defensive frailties last year. 

[roversfan99]

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Its very easy to say this when you aren't dealing with the player, agents, clubs and what is said and agree in meeting. 

No its irrelevant to you not to everyone. 

Mowbray explained what happened in the summer with the keeper search. Very easy for you to sit and home and post what you have when you aren't involved in the meetings, negotiating transfers and contracts.  

I judge the manager on the players he does sign and of course, whether they solve the areas in the squad that required fixing. I think thats the fairest way. I am not going to start giving him a free pass because he was linked with 2 unnamed foreign goalkeepers, its irrelevant to me because he didnt bring them in. Thus, I will judge him on sanctioning the permanent signing of Raya and signing Walton on a loan deal, that is all.

If he indeed wanted an experienced keeper, then he failed in that remit. That being said, I am not overly concerned as long as he is good, of which again there are big question marks.

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

I got the impression from the article we would look at the keeper situation regardless of if Walton stayed. That's how I read it. It doesn't say if Walton goes back we will look or we will look in case he goes back but that we will look for someone in January (the inference being Walton hasn't done that well.) 

Think from what Mowbray has said and the local journalists say his plans were changed by Dack injured and Mulgrew coming back

10 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

It speaks volumes about a keeper that the best slant on the debate is he hasn't been as bad as some have thought! It really shows that we have a very limited keeper as our number one. (Contrast this with how we talk about Tosin or Downing.)

I think Walton has been fairly good tbh. 9 clean sheet this season which is very decent. Yes he made mistakes but he is young keeper

10 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Again this doesn't reflect well on the club. If we knew since April we had to get a new one in and still couldn't find one of a desired calibre then it shows the club in an even worse light. 

I also think this shows Raya was thrown under the bus a bit for our defensive frailties last year.

from reading what Raya said about the move. He wanted to leave before the season end. 

I don't know when the club knew but I felt he would go judging by Mowbray's comments and my thoughts on him needed to be replace

[Blue blood]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Think from what Mowbray has said and the local journalists say his plans were changed by Dack injured and Mulgrew coming back

Great point. Hadn't thought of this and think you are spot on. 

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think Walton has been fairly good tbh. 9 clean sheet this season which is very decent. Yes he made mistakes but he is young keeper. 

Disagree strongly. Don't think many people would say he's been fairly good. I can remember a number of clangers he has made and very few good games. Also as with Raya at Brentford perhaps a better defence makes their stats look better too? A Lenihen-Tosin partnership with Travis in front of them is bound to be an improvement than one involving Mulgrew and Smallwood. From what I've seen, watched, heard and read of Walton he's not looked that convincing or impressive and mistakes or a lack of them are a huge part of being a keeper and unfortunately he has made tons. Even before we get to the loan aspect of his transfer I don't think he has looked that good at all. Contrast it with Downing who has proved an excellent signing or Tosin as a good one and I don't see Walton anywhere near their levels to be considered good. 

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

from reading what Raya said about the move. He wanted to leave before the season end. 

I don't know when the club knew but I felt he would go judging by Mowbray's comments and my thoughts on him needed to be replace

Agree. If you and I could see it (and imo part of the reason was TMs scapegoating) then the club really should have known too and been prepared for it. 

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Great point. Hadn't thought of this and think you are spot on. 

Disagree strongly. Don't think many people would say he's been fairly good. I can remember a number of clangers he has made and very few good games. Also as with Raya at Brentford perhaps a better defence makes their stats look better too? A Lenihen-Tosin partnership with Travis in front of them is bound to be an improvement than one involving Mulgrew and Smallwood. From what I've seen, watched, heard and read of Walton he's not looked that convincing or impressive and mistakes or a lack of them are a huge part of being a keeper and unfortunately he has made tons. Even before we get to the loan aspect of his transfer I don't think he has looked that good at all. Contrast it with Downing who has proved an excellent signing or Tosin as a good one and I don't see Walton anywhere near their levels to be considered good. 

Agree. If you and I could see it (and imo part of the reason was TMs scapegoating) then the club really should have known too and been prepared for it. 

I think perhaps the fact that he is not the weakest member of our current starting 11 says more about other players than it does about Walton. For example, goalkeeper was not a pressing concern for me in this January window, a left back to replace Bell and 2 wide men (an area where we are really, really lacking) would come before Walton, who himself is error prone, unconvincing and on the flip side rarely pulls off particularly eye catching saves.

Of course all goalkeepers do indeed make mistakes but it is the quantity of them mistakes that is important, and for me Walton has made far too many. As you say, the defensive stats (which are ok, nothing more, 10 teams have conceded less goals) are perhaps more down to other improvements we have made. I would say Walton is at least directly responsible for a quarter of those goals.

The fact that he is young makes absolutely no difference, if he is not befitting the "experienced goalkeeper" that Mowbray earmarked then why was he signed? And critically, he is only a loan so his age is fairly immaterial as either way he will only be here until May.

Agree with your post especially the planning aspect of it. Also, what Mowbray has said and done are again at odds with each other.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

Great point. Hadn't thought of this and think you are spot on. 

Disagree strongly. Don't think many people would say he's been fairly good. I can remember a number of clangers he has made and very few good games. Also as with Raya at Brentford perhaps a better defence makes their stats look better too? A Lenihen-Tosin partnership with Travis in front of them is bound to be an improvement than one involving Mulgrew and Smallwood. From what I've seen, watched, heard and read of Walton he's not looked that convincing or impressive and mistakes or a lack of them are a huge part of being a keeper and unfortunately he has made tons. Even before we get to the loan aspect of his transfer I don't think he has looked that good at all. Contrast it with Downing who has proved an excellent signing or Tosin as a good one and I don't see Walton anywhere near their levels to be considered good. 

Agree. If you and I could see it (and imo part of the reason was TMs scapegoating) then the club really should have known too and been prepared for it. 

We have to agree to disagree on Walton. 

Well we were prepare for it as we have 2 foreign keepers line up and maybe set to sign for all we know until maybe something family wise stop them and their back to own country. We just don't know. 

58 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

The fact that he is young makes absolutely no difference, if he is not befitting the "experienced goalkeeper" that Mowbray earmarked then why was he signed? And critically, he is only a loan so his age is fairly immaterial as either way he will only be here until May.

Agree with your post especially the planning aspect of it. Also, what Mowbray has said and done are again at odds with each other.

I posted the link to an interview where Mowbray explained in great detail the goalkeeper search and why Walton was signed. 

Blimey, how many times we have to discuss this issue on here? 

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Well we were prepare for it as we have 2 foreign keepers line up and maybe set to sign for all we know until maybe something family wise stop them and their back to own country. We just don't know. 

Complete conjecture all we really know for certain is that Mowbray let Raya go without having signed a replacement. Poor.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

Complete conjecture all we really know for certain is that Mowbray let Raya go without having signed a replacement. Poor.

Like I said very easy for people like you to come out with posts like this. We heard Mowbray side of events. Raya wanted out and Raya's agent was pushing for the move to Brentford. 

Like I said we have 2 line up and in the end both fall through due to both players went home to their own country. 

Why we keep going over this time after time I have no idea. 

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Like I said very easy for people like you to come out with posts like this. We heard Mowbray side of events. Raya wanted out and Raya's agent was pushing for the move to Brentford. 

Like I said we have 2 line up and in the end both fall through due to both players went home to their own country. 

Why we keep going over this time after time I have no idea. 

I'm simply stating a fact we which is that we let Raya go before a replacement was signed despite Mowbray saying previously 'You want to strengthen before you lose any players.'What about that do you dispute?

It's no good having players lined up you have to actually sign them. As for Raya and his agent then that is just tough he was being paid by us and had 2 years left on his contract and should have been told he was going nowhere until we had a replacement. 

[Blue blood]

12 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

I'm simply stating a fact we which is that we let Raya go before a replacement was signed despite Mowbray saying previously 'You want to strengthen before you lose any players.'What about that do you dispute?

It's no good having players lined up you have to actually sign them. As for Raya and his agent then that is just tough he was being paid by us and had 2 years left on his contract and should have been told he was going nowhere until we had a replacement. 

Agree. The old don't count your chickens adage. 

Also with both keepers being foreign it's not that surprising they wanted to stay in their home country. 

Also one would hope the shortlist was more extensive than that given its such a crucial position. 

A side thought is I wonder if having a substandard number 2 came back to bite us in this situation too. 

[JHRover]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Most managers said this but in reality very rarely happens. Players, their agents, clubs and other factors to deal with. 

Yes but most clubs have at least one senior keeper on their own books. We don't. 

All well and good moaning about other clubs, players and agents. The summer window lasts for months, we should always have lists anyway. In the end we are a big club in one of the biggest leagues in Europe. Not being able to sign our own keeper is ridiculous. 

Build from the back is the way it should go yet for starters this summer we are going to need 2x keepers a first choice CB and LB. We know that right now. So no excuses when it doesn't happen.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, JHRover said:

Yes but most clubs have at least one senior keeper on their own books. We don't. 

Don't we have Luetwiler? 

Also it didn't Stop Sheff Utd getting promoted with Henderson on loan did it? 

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

Build from the back is the way it should go yet for starters this summer we are going to need 2x keepers a first choice CB and LB. We know that right now. So no excuses when it doesn't happen.

We are scouting keepers. Rich Sharpe has said we have interest in David Cornell. Nixon said we have interest in Jon McLaughlin from Sunderland. 

[47er]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Like I said very easy for people like you to come out with posts like this. We heard Mowbray side of events. Raya wanted out and Raya's agent was pushing for the move to Brentford. 

Like I said we have 2 line up and in the end both fall through due to both players went home to their own country. 

Why we keep going over this time after time I have no idea. 

We shouldn't just forget things because it doesn't suit your narrative!

[Tugay's Right Foot]

Looks like Raya's going up sometime soon..wonder if we have a sell-on clause. He's going to sell on more than what we got when Brentford's done with him

[Husky]

I think that puts Raya ahead of Walton in the mistakes table.

 

[Tom]

Bloody hell he’s Raya’d it again?

Class shot stopper but always has that in him 

[Inglorious basturk]

I think he saves his teams more than he costs them . If this is still the case when he is peaking as a keeper at say 29 fair enough but he won’t be 

[Inglorious basturk]

2 minutes ago, Tom said:

Bloody hell he’s Raya’d it again?

Class shot stopper but always has that in him 

Raya’D it ? 
cheap and tabloid 

[Blue blood]

45 minutes ago, Husky said:

I think that puts Raya ahead of Walton in the mistakes table.

 

Whoopee. We have one error prone keeper instead of another. How about we have a keeper who, I dunno, doesn't make gaffes? Call me a fair weather fan but that's my criteria for a good keeper. 

[DE.]

Tbf for £3m Brentford knew they weren't signing the finished article - far from it. Raya is a great reflex keeper who has never been comfortable coming out to claim the ball from crosses. Looks like he still has that weakness although without watching Brentford over the course of the season I can't say whether he's improved from his time here or not. 

[Husky]

53 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

I think he saves his teams more than he costs them . If this is still the case when he is peaking as a keeper at say 29 fair enough but he won’t be 

Though if he could catch (or punch) then Brentford would be in the automatic promotion places tonight - with Leeds down in 4th and 'Sky in meltdown'.

He could hardly have made a more crucial error.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Husky