Formation/tactics for next season

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

Don't follow what you mean here. Dack has always played best behind Graham as a lone striker. I can't recall him ever playing particularly well behind a front two.

He needs more movement in front of him and better protection behind him.

[JacknOry]

11 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Don't follow what you mean here. Dack has always played best behind Graham as a lone striker. I can't recall him ever playing particularly well behind a front two.

Not sure how somebody that is good at playing behind a front one would be worse off playing behind a front two? Surely the increased space he will have will further allow him to make his mark on matches. 

It wont happen anyway, we don't even have the numbers to adequately fill three CB spots right now (effectively at least and with enough depth behind them).

[Mike E]

24 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Not sure how somebody that is good at playing behind a front one would be worse off playing behind a front two? Surely the increased space he will have will further allow him to make his mark on matches. 

It wont happen anyway, we don't even have the numbers to adequately fill three CB spots right now (effectively at least and with enough depth behind them).

It would make him less likely to be marked, but could potentially fill the midfield too much, restricting the space for others to receive the ball from Dack.

Not convinced by 3412 but not QUITE against it.

[joey_big_nose]

4 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Not sure how somebody that is good at playing behind a front one would be worse off playing behind a front two? Surely the increased space he will have will further allow him to make his mark on matches. 

It wont happen anyway, we don't even have the numbers to adequately fill three CB spots right now (effectively at least and with enough depth behind them).

Main issue for me is that it pushes Dack further away from goal. He has had a lot of success playing very far forward, pretty much as a second striker, and scores a lot of goals as a result. Putting two ahead of him would make him less effective imo.

[JacknOry]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

Main issue for me is that it pushes Dack further away from goal. He has had a lot of success playing very far forward, pretty much as a second striker, and scores a lot of goals as a result. Putting two ahead of him would make him less effective imo.

Perhaps it might effect the number of goals he gets - we dont really know, guess it depends on the movement of those in front of him but I would imagine his assists would increase though. Comes down to whats best for the team rather than individual numbers though, we're far two reliant on both Dack and Graham for goals. Teams basically know that if they stop Dack, they have done half the job.  

[Bigdoggsteel]

I think we need to take the pressure off Dack to be honest. As @JacknOry says as well, teams know if they stopped him, they stopped us. Credit to him for still reaching as many goals and assists.

Having him play back a bit could work, if the team around him offer more. He has had to take too much responsibility on his shoulders the past two seasons. He could then be pushed forward a bit when the opposition aren't prepared, or just arrive late in the box, as he does very well. He would probably need to do more running if he was deeper though and the risk is it negates his goals and the others don't step up. Then we would be screwed. 

 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think we need to take the pressure off Dack to be honest. As @JacknOry says as well, teams know if they stopped him, they stopped us. Credit to him for still reaching as many goals and assists.

Having him play back a bit could work, if the team around him offer more. He has had to take too much responsibility on his shoulders the past two seasons. He could then be pushed forward a bit when the opposition aren't prepared, or just arrive late in the box, as he does very well. He would probably need to do more running if he was deeper though and the risk is it negates his goals and the others don't step up. Then we would be screwed. 

 

The further you push him back, the less able he is to get the goals and assists he has. His game is geared around being in and around the box, hes a second striker more than an attacking midfielder and hes a natural poacher around the box, scoring so many tap ins and close range goals.

Ultimately, two of the main things that held him back were an incredibly rigid and direct style of play, and also the use of limited players around him, picked for defensive reasons. Rothwell seemed to link up much better with him for example than having a Bennett, Conway or Reed wide.

Moving him further back would be crazy. He is our best player, and he is best suited to a 10 role off a striker. The team should be built around him.

[joey_big_nose]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

The further you push him back, the less able he is to get the goals and assists he has. His game is geared around being in and around the box, hes a second striker more than an attacking midfielder and hes a natural poacher around the box, scoring so many tap ins and close range goals.

Ultimately, two of the main things that held him back were an incredibly rigid and direct style of play, and also the use of limited players around him, picked for defensive reasons. Rothwell seemed to link up much better with him for example than having a Bennett, Conway or Reed wide.

Moving him further back would be crazy. He is our best player, and he is best suited to a 10 role off a striker. The team should be built around him.

Yes - 4231 really suits him. I really want to see us to consistently start Graham up front, Dack at 10, Rothwell on the left and Chapman/Downing on the right. Will be our best attacking line in years. Johnson and Travis have the workrate and quality to build a strong platform for that attacking line to prosper.

All for naught though if the defence and GK isn't radically overhauled.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just listened to an interview with Stephen Kenny there on Eamon Dunphys show. He said that all Ireland teams from under 15 up to under 21s have been instructed by Ruud Doctor(head of development at the FAI) to play either 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, nothing else is permitted. 

Not sure about that. Leicester won the league with 4-4-2. Sheffield United got promoted with 3 at the back. It seems to be the way things are going though.

[SBlue]

I hear he's got a terrible bedside manner.

[JacknOry]

Ruud Doctor - Hilarious name!

[Gary C]

Yep the 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 approach would be my preferred options. Will be interesting to see whether the Adam or Butterfield deals pan out

[Trinidad Rover]

I predict this line up and formation:

                                                          Gallagher

                                     Downing           Dack            Rothwell

                                                   Johnson      Travis

                                        Bell     Lenihan      New     Bennett

                                                              New

 

- Graham and Gallagher will alternate a lot.

- Brereton will continue his inside forward/wing 20 minute cameos, continuing to frustrate everyone and contribute nothing

- Chapman and Armstrong on for similar cameos replacing Rothwell and Downing.

                                

[davulsukur]

-----------------New Keeper

Nyambe--Lenihan--Williams--Bell

---------------Travis--Johnson

Rothwell--------Dack-‐--------Armstrong

---‐---------------Graham

Or

-----------------New Keeper

Nyambe--Lenihan--Williams--Bell

-----Travis------Johnson-----Evans

-----Rothwell----Graham---Armstrong

It will have to be 4-2-3-1 can't get Dack into a 4-3-3.

Tragic that we have 2 players costing a combined £12m who don't get in.

Could swap SG and BB in for Rothwell and Arma but I wouldn't.

Edited July 12, 2019 by davulsukur

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, davulsukur said:

Tragic that we have 2 players costing a combined £12m who don't get in.

With one who the receipt is still wet!

If Mowbray has bought these new players tonplay

Unless Dack is being sold...

For all the concern about the defence, all he has done is tinker with the midfield.

[DeeCee]

That back 5 scares the hell out of me!

[J*B]

I think we will switch between 4 2 3 1 and 3 5 2

 

      Lenihan Mulgrew Williams

Bennett                                    Bell

            Travis Dack Johnson

              Graham Gallagher 

[rigger]

On 09/07/2019 at 14:12, joey_big_nose said:

Don't follow what you mean here. Dack has always played best behind Graham as a lone striker. I can't recall him ever playing particularly well behind a front two.

Sparks might mean Dack is one of the two forwards

[JacknOry]

Wait what? THe last two teams on this thread have not included Rothwell.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

I think we will switch between 4 2 3 1 and 3 5 2

 

      Lenihan Mulgrew Williams

Bennett                                    Bell

            Travis Dack Johnson

              Graham Gallagher 

Playing Dack in a midfield 3 would nullify his threat.

Thats before you mention the state of that back 5.

[J*B]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Playing Dack in a midfield 3 would nullify his threat.

Thats before you mention the state of that back 5.

In a 5-3-2 Dack wouldn't have to do anything but track back a little more when defending. When attacking Mulgrew would push forward and we would go 4 at the back.

 

Defending

      Lenihan Mulgrew Williams

Bennett                                     Bell

           Travis Dack Johnson

               Gallagher Graham

Attacking

Bennett Lenihan Williams Bell

                 Mulgrew

        Travis            Johnson

                    Dack

        Gallagher Graham 

[J*B]

I should flag I think neither system is great, I would go...

Nyambe Lenihan Williams Bell

              Travis         Johnson 

    Chapman     Dack        Rothwell

                          Graham 

But I just dont understand how we can have three strikers totally 14m on the bench.

[roversfan99]

Just now, J*B said:

I should flag I think neither system is great, I would go...

Nyambe Lenihan Williams Bell

              Travis         Johnson 

    Chapman     Dack        Rothwell

                          Graham 

But I just dont understand how we can have three strikers totally 14m on the bench.

Whilst that is true, its even more counter-productive to put players into a team based solely on price tag rather than on merit.

Dack is our best player and he plays best right up off a solitary striker, move him back and you hinder his ability to anticipate and finish chances in the 18 yard box.

I'd have that team with Armstrong on the right, he looks so much better there than on the left.

Sadly, with Chapman again injured, I feel like hes gonna start off the pace and struggle to ever break through.

[SBlue]

46 minutes ago, J*B said:

I should flag I think neither system is great, I would go...

Nyambe Lenihan Williams Bell

              Travis         Johnson 

    Chapman     Dack        Rothwell

                          Graham 

But I just dont understand how we can have three strikers totally 14m on the bench.

We need options. We’ve seen it with Charlie how legs can go overnight.

I expect one of the money signings of Armstrong Gally or BB to start over Chapman, and be more effective. And certainly to be phased in more as Graham ages.

Chapman may have a career at super sub.

[SkipDonoghue]

From what I've seen pre season The formation will change in and out of possesion

442 out of possession, changing to 3421 in possession 

What I've seen so far is this, the right back or left back will get involved high dependant which one the other tucks around with the centre half's to make a 3, Dack is left to try and get in between the lines the interesting thing for me was Rothwells role he is asked to start wide on the left he is also expected to carry the ball if he can commiting players and pulling them out of shape if he can't carry he then tucks in narrow with Dack supported then by the 2 holding players the idea is to create overloads and outnumber the opposition in the midfield I think in these circumstances

the left or right back then provides the width on the left or right if on the right the winger will get involved inside or create overloads which means which ever full back isn't involved high will make the 3 at the back

When it breaks down revert back to shape 442, but it means which ever full back has got involved high needs to work hard getting back In with a bit of help from either of the holders

Edited July 13, 2019 by SkipDonoghue