John Buckley

[islander200]

27 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Iv been patient with buckley, even at times believing the hype, I’m now well off that train of thought , I don’t think he is capable of taking his game to the next level, believe his next move will be down the league rather than premier. Pinging a few nice passes round the middle isn’t going to get you far. If he can’t penetrate or score then he isn’t much. He may press well but so did Jason lowe

Think he is being played in the wrong position and should be deeper.

Also believe he would look far better with more intelligent players around him, he can see a pass better than anyone we have and no coincidence his best form came when Brererton was in full flow and making runs a player like Buckley thrives off.

Will say he needs to improve the mental side of his game and take it upon himself to get more involved in games.Personally don't think he will go lower but if he wants to play at  higher level than Championship then he does need to start influencing games more.

He has never been a goal scoring threat even at under age level.It isn't his game doesn't mean he doesn't have the talent to play at a higher level.

Like to see him after spending time with a better manager and coaching staff. 

[roversfan99]

Buckley had a real golden spell in our good run because playing as a false 9 in a side that was perfectly balanced played to his strengths, it was a perfect storm.. We was constantly keeping clean sheets, both Brereton and Khadra were getting in behind and his strengths were really focused upon, he is good at playing through balls in behind defences and he is good at nicking the ball high up. Even a massive weakness of his which is his inability to shoot/score was somewhat compensated by Brereton's hot streak and even contributions from Khadra, so it wasn't costing us.

Of course once Brereton got injured that balance went out of the window as we didn't have anyone in behind and a responsibility then falls on Buckley in that role to score goals which he simply cannot do, and is why him as a false 9 is unlikely to work consistently going forward again.

I do think it is perhaps worth trying him deeper but it is a totally different game to play in the centre of midfield. Can he control games whereby the main focus of his passes isn't always to be trying to make that final pass? Can he cope with the pressure of receiving the ball in dangerous areas rather than further forward?

[Bbrovers2288]

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Buckley had a real golden spell in our good run because playing as a false 9 in a side that was perfectly balanced played to his strengths, it was a perfect storm.. We was constantly keeping clean sheets, both Brereton and Khadra were getting in behind and his strengths were really focused upon, he is good at playing through balls in behind defences and he is good at nicking the ball high up. Even a massive weakness of his which is his inability to shoot/score was somewhat compensated by Brereton's hot streak and even contributions from Khadra, so it wasn't costing us.

Of course once Brereton got injured that balance went out of the window as we didn't have anyone in behind and a responsibility then falls on Buckley in that role to score goals which he simply cannot do, and is why him as a false 9 is unlikely to work consistently going forward again.

I do think it is perhaps worth trying him deeper but it is a totally different game to play in the centre of midfield. Can he control games whereby the main focus of his passes isn't always to be trying to make that final pass? Can he cope with the pressure of receiving the ball in dangerous areas rather than further forward?

Glad to see you finally agreed to what I said months ago 

[riverholmes]

The three forwards formation, as modelled by Liverpool, is all about intense closing down and intercepting and, also counter attack, with the threat in behind.

We lost that along the way. In some games, we simply stopped closing down and invariably got picked off.

It was a very high risk approach, anyway, for us because Buckley is not a goalscorer, so far, and, unlike Liverpool, we played with two central midfielders who, as teams worked us out, could be outnumbered by clever movement. (See Keinan Davis for Forest).

Once Poveda got injured, Dolan not played wide for some reason and Gallagher, who is fairly mobile but no winger, was brought in, we were weakened further and the high risk strategy was found out and has, it seems, completely fallen apart.

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by riverholmes

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, riverholmes said:

The three forwards formation, as modelled by Liverpool, is all about intense closing down and intercepting and, also counter attack, with the threat in behind.

We lost that along the way. In some games, we simply stopped closing down and invariably got picked off.

It was a very high risk approach, anyway, for us because Buckley is not a goalscorer, so far, and, unlike Liverpool, we played with two central midfielders who, as teams worked us out, could be outnumbered by clever movement. (See Keinan Davis for Forest).

Once Poveda got injured, Dolan not played wide for some reason and Gallagher, who is fairly mobile but no winger, was brought in, we were weakened further and the high risk strategy was found out and has, it seems, completely fallen apart.

 

Don't underestimate the importance of a 3rd CM in that formation. 2 midfielders and 3 forwards leaves pockets of space to the sides of the two midfielders. Stoke exploited that without even trying, we couldn't get near them.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I’m not sure why Buckley doesn’t get the benefit of the Mowbray handicap when donkeys like Gallagher do. Personally I’m looking forward to see him develop further playing in centre midfield alongside Travis and hopefully one other for a full season. He’s a great tackler and easily the best quick forward passer at the club. Yes he’s not the finished article but this has been his first full season where he’s barely been allowed to  stay in one position in any one game thanks to the tactical genius in the dugout.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

19 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I’m not sure why Buckley doesn’t get the benefit of the Mowbray handicap when donkeys like Gallagher do. Personally I’m looking forward to see him develop further playing in centre midfield alongside Travis and hopefully one other for a full season. He’s a great tackler and easily the best quick forward passer at the club. Yes he’s not the finished article but this has been his first full season where he’s barely been allowed to  stay in one position in any one game thanks to the tactical genius in the dugout.

He needs to do something about his liking for cheap bookings. He gets booked too often for a player who isn’t particularly physical.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Wheelton Blue]

He's forever whingeing in the ref's ear. That must go against him with some refs.

Needs to learn to shut up and do his talking with the ball.

[riverholmes]

I must credit Mowbray on persevering with Buckley. He's probably mismanaged him by moving him around to unfamiliar and, frankly, unsuitable positions, including false 9 and right back but he kept picking him, at least. I believe Mowbray brought Zoltan Gera and Robert Koren into English football, whilst at WBA, and, even though Mowbray, to my mind, has lost his way in keeping up with the tactical evolution in the game, he's at least doggedly stuck by the principle of fielding technically gifted midfielders (if not always in midfield).

The Buckley wonder strike against Birmingham indicated to me just what he's capable of, if he works with the right coaches and, also, develops mentally himself. He beat a man, spread play, across the pitch and then got the return and hit a sweet strike to score.

I feel that sometimes his game is about style over substance, and, just sometimes, the style and the substance are matched, such as in the goal which, it seems, he hit with the outside of his boot, or, at least, not conventionally. I don't mind style, at all, and Buckley has a unique, effortless style on the ball but if he could match that with regular outcomes, he could be a really top player.

Edited May 8, 2022 by riverholmes

[Admiral Nelsen]

53 minutes ago, riverholmes said:

I must credit Mowbray on persevering with Buckley. He's probably mismanaged him by moving him around to unfamiliar and, frankly, unsuitable positions, including false 9 and right back but he kept picking him, at least. I believe Mowbray brought Zoltan Gera and Robert Koren into English football, whilst at WBA, and, even though Mowbray, to my mind, has lost his way in keeping up with the tactical evolution in the game, he's at least doggedly stuck by the principle of fielding technically gifted midfielders (if not always in midfield).

The Buckley wonder strike against Birmingham indicated to me just what he's capable of, if he works with the right coaches and, also, develops mentally himself. He beat a man, spread play, across the pitch and then got the return and hit a sweet strike to score.

I feel that sometimes his game is about style over substance, and, just sometimes, the style and the substance are matched, such as in the goal which, it seems, he hit with the outside of his boot, or, at least, not conventionally. I don't mind style, at all, and Buckley has a unique, effortless style on the ball but if he could match that with regular outcomes, he could be a really top player.

 

I liked the way that he started the move almost as much as the goal itself. Receiving the ball facing his own goal under pressure. Four seconds later he's turned, beat a defender like he wasn't there and pinged a 40 yard pass to a man in space. Lovely.

 

He still has games where he goes missing, but his development in the last twelve months has been wonderful. If he carries on as he is then he'll be some player. 

[roversfan99]

The narrative around Buckley has been that Mowbray has wasted him in the false 9 role and it was persevered with for too long but it is also easy to forget that the best couple of months in his career came from that position.

Assuming that Dack starts the season, it will be interesting to see how (and if) we can get them both in the team together. The common consensus seems to be that Buckley can go next to Travis but that is a whole different role and there would be question marks over whether he would adapt successfully.

[joey_big_nose]

Buckley is a very good player who can play almost anywhere. Can pass, beat a man, tackle, score. He'll be the partner to Travis and start every game he's fit for next season. Will be his break through year imo.

We should enjoy him as fully expecting a prem club to take him next summer (unless of course we go up).

[Rochdale_rover]

Pretty confident that bucko cam take over rothwells position. 

 

Far superior player plus 5 years younger . 

Rothwell has been bang average for 90% of his career here.

 

 

 

[joey_big_nose]

11 hours ago, Rochdale_rover said:

Pretty confident that bucko cam take over rothwells position. 

 

Far superior player plus 5 years younger . 

Rothwell has been bang average for 90% of his career here.

 

 

 

Rothwells best games were probably marginally better than Buckley's so far, but Buckley does look to me like he will be far more consistent when he hits stride.

We will need two more quality centre mids who can tackle and get forward. I'm skeptical like others are on Edun. May grow over time, but not ready for next season. Also quite lightweight for a mid (though we did say that about Buckley and he sorted it).

Reckon we need 2 centre mids, 2 centre backs, a left back, right back, GK, two strikers and a winger, at least half of them starters, and the other half near starter qualityy. Hell of a shopping list. 10 players! Assuming we get 4 good loans that's six buys.

How many quality players have we managed to buy outright a season? I think we've averaged about one or two who haven't been loans over the last three seasons. Last year it was only Pickering who went straight in. Hedges started to come through but he needed 3 months to settle. Hmm.

[Guest]

Buckley in a 3 would be very very good. Buckley in a two (as we've seen) would be very very bad. 

[Admiral Nelsen]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

Rothwells best games were probably marginally better than Buckley's so far, but Buckley does look to me like he will be far more consistent when he hits stride.

We will need two more quality centre mids who can tackle and get forward. I'm skeptical like others are on Edun. May grow over time, but not ready for next season. Also quite lightweight for a mid (though we did say that about Buckley and he sorted it).

Reckon we need 2 centre mids, 2 centre backs, a left back, right back, GK, two strikers and a winger, at least half of them starters, and the other half near starter qualityy. Hell of a shopping list. 10 players! Assuming we get 4 good loans that's six buys.

How many quality players have we managed to buy outright a season? I think we've averaged about one or two who haven't been loans over the last three seasons. Last year it was only Pickering who went straight in. Hedges started to come through but he needed 3 months to settle. Hmm.

 

Agree that the midfield is lacking power if Buckley comes straight in. Trav is an excellent player at this level but he can't be the legs for the whole midfield. What we wouldn't give for a pre-injury Steven Reid now!

 

It's a pretty daunting shopping list. Hopefully good news on the Lenihan and Nyambe contracts will take a little bit of the pressure off.

At the same time, whilst we'll need numbers all over the park, I think the one thing which is really essential is that we bring in enough goal threat to replace Brereton, assuming he gets sold. Other positions depend more on what system the new manager will want to play - i.e. if we play with a back four we probably won't need two new centre halves with Carter coming back - but the one thing which really worries me about next year is that we won't have enough quality up front. 

 

 

[joey_big_nose]

8 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Buckley in a 3 would be very very good. Buckley in a two (as we've seen) would be very very bad. 

I'd dispute that. I think he will be good in a two alongside Travis or another physical midfielder. But who plays two in the middle these days anyway? Very very rare.  Only formation where you have a proper old school 2 in mid in 442 and virtually no one plays that. Otherwise you've got players from various positions stepping in to help the mids either from a back three or a number 10 dropping in.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

I'd dispute that. I think he will be good in a two alongside Travis or another physical midfielder. But who plays two in the middle these days anyway? Very very rare.  Only formation where you have a proper old school 2 in mid in 442 and virtually no one plays that. Otherwise you've got players from various positions stepping in to help the mids either from a back three or a number 10 dropping in.

We did all season to be fair. He was shite whenever he was alongside Travis.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

Agree that the midfield is lacking power if Buckley comes straight in. Trav is an excellent player at this level but he can't be the legs for the whole midfield. What we wouldn't give for a pre-injury Steven Reid now!

 

It's a pretty daunting shopping list. Hopefully good news on the Lenihan and Nyambe contracts will take a little bit of the pressure off.

At the same time, whilst we'll need numbers all over the park, I think the one thing which is really essential is that we bring in enough goal threat to replace Brereton, assuming he gets sold. Other positions depend more on what system the new manager will want to play - i.e. if we play with a back four we probably won't need two new centre halves with Carter coming back - but the one thing which really worries me about next year is that we won't have enough quality up front. 

 

 

Was there a pre injury Steven Reid ?

[had.e.nuff]

17 hours ago, Rochdale_rover said:

Pretty confident that bucko cam take over rothwells position. 

 

Far superior player plus 5 years younger . 

Rothwell has been bang average for 90% of his career here.

 

 

 

I have to agree with him replacing rothwell very similar goal and assists this season

[joey_big_nose]

19 hours ago, had.e.nuff said:

I have to agree with him replacing rothwell very similar goal and assists this season

The issue we had is during our best period we had Travis, Rothwell and Buckley all playing together.  Either with them all in a three (433)or Buckley more advanced in the hole (4231) or a false 9 (343). So even if we swap Buckley for Rothwell we still have an absolutely key starting player to replace.

If the new manager fancies 343 or 4231 probably Dack or Markanday can fill in, but 433 we would need someone completely new to lineup alongside Travis and Buckley. And then obviously big gaps everywhere if we have injuries or suspensions.

[rigger]

2 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

The issue we had is during our best period we had Travis, Rothwell and Buckley all playing together.  Either with them all in a three (433)or Buckley more advanced in the hole (4231) or a false 9 (343). So even if we swap Buckley for Rothwell we still have an absolutely key starting player to replace.

If the new manager fancies 343 or 4231 probably Dack or Markanday can fill in, but 433 we would need someone completely new to lineup alongside Travis and Buckley. And then obviously big gaps everywhere if we have injuries or suspensions.

Or take a punt on Adam Wharton in the midfield 3. Loads of energy (although you wouldn't think it to look at him ), reads the game really well and picks simple, correct passes.

[Admiral Nelsen]

20 minutes ago, rigger said:

Or take a punt on Adam Wharton in the midfield 3. Loads of energy (although you wouldn't think it to look at him ), reads the game really well and picks simple, correct passes.

 

I don't watch the U23s, so I'll bow to your view on whether he's ready, but that's a big punt indeed for such an important area of the pitch. 

[rigger]

1 minute ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

I don't watch the U23s, so I'll bow to your view on whether he's ready, but that's a big punt indeed for such an important area of the pitch. 

I personnally don't think he is ready yet. But it is an option we have, that will cost nothing. He will eventually be ready for first team football, let's hope it's with the Rovers.

[joey_big_nose]

5 hours ago, rigger said:

I personnally don't think he is ready yet. But it is an option we have, that will cost nothing. He will eventually be ready for first team football, let's hope it's with the Rovers.

My general feeling is we promote young players too late to first team rather than too early. I wouldn't be against him getting some game time. But realistically he's not going to go in as a starter under any manager.

We'll need new experienced players to replace Rothwell and Johnson imo.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by joey_big_nose