Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Rover_Shaun]

6 points behind one of the relegation favourites already. I hope it's not going to be a long season with very few highs......

[chaddyrovers]

14 hours ago, Cherry Blue said:

Club under Venkeys isn't big enough for a DoF. No budget. Also TM wouldn't want a decision maker.

why isnt the club big enough? Brentford have this strcuture works fine for them

13 hours ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

If Mowbray left then I'm 95% certain Damien Johnson would take over (likely in a caretaker role initially) 

Johnson would be my choice to replace Mowbray but I would like a very different structure at the club

13 hours ago, Stuart said:

If not a change of manager then something needs to change with the coaching staff. What we are doing isn’t working. If Mowbray won’t go then he can’t keep on with the same failing formula. Would he upgrade on Lowe for instance?

 

Well Johnson is now part of the first team coaching set up now. Or would you want rid of Lowe and bring in another coach or just leave Johnson to do Lowe duties aswell?

2 hours ago, Rogerb said:

Chris Hughton is five years older than TM

Hughton is boring manager with one tactic of boring football and very defensive. Look at how Potter has shown him up in 1 game yesterday with the Brighton team

[Mattyblue]

Do we play ‘good football’, chaddy?

[gumboots]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

 

Hughton is boring manager with one tactic of boring football and very defensive. Look at how Potter has shown him up in 1 game yesterday with the Brighton team

I'd rather watch boring winning football than exciting losing football in the long run

[47er]

Our games are only exciting for the opposition!

[arbitro]

I find this talk of a Director of Football to work with Mowbray a bit pie in the sky. I believe Mowbray likes the autonomy and control he has at Rovers. I just don't think he would want somebody telling/advising him on football matters.

[47er]

10 hours ago, arbitro said:

I find this talk of a Director of Football to work with Mowbray a bit pie in the sky. I believe Mowbray likes the autonomy and control he has at Rovers. I just don't think he would want somebody telling/advising him on football matters.

What Mowbray is doing is repeating the performance he put in at other clubs and for which they sacked him. Failure to setup the defence was a major part of his demise as he has admitted, made worse by endless tinkering with positions.

If a Director of Football was a good one and allowed Mowbray to do what's he's best at( though I'm struggling to define what that might be) it could be a beneficial move.

However its more likely we'll see Mowbray struggling on to his inevitable crisis and the sack.

What comes next should worry us all but I'd bet on Johnno and hope that will work out.

Edited August 11, 2019 by 47er
typo

[JHRover]

When the time comes a Director of Football needs to be appointed before any new manager. That Director of Football needs to be experienced and proven in a similar role elsewhere, preferably with European background. Not a used car salesman on a 6 month deal like the last one. That individual will be employed to hire and fire the next manager. Not Waggott, Cheston, Pasha or whatever agency is flavour of the month in India. None of the above are football people with sufficient expertise to pick a decent manager. The owners need to drop this nonsense about building personal relationships and having the manager run the club. It isn't doable in this day and age.

At the moment there are League Two clubs with bigger, better and more competent structures in place than we have. It can't go on.

Not that Mowbray is going anywhere any time soon as I think they'll prefer to roll the dice and hope he keeps us up than rock the boat by getting Venkys to approve a change. 

If he walks, which is more likely than the sack, we'll be back in cheap, bargain bucket unemployed managers again and then the cycle starts off again. Last time Adkins was close to the job so he might be there again although he walked out on Hull and might not fancy another dose of working for clowns.

Other than that we've Steve Cotterill, Dougie Freedman or Alex Mcleish. Cant see past such desperate names. 

 

[roversfan99]

I had a quick think back over Mowbrays overall time here.

Firstly, he was brought in to perform an admittedly difficult task of survival. No matter how thats dressed up, he failed, often failing to turn draws into wins etc, and coming up short.

Early the season after, he had the first of for me his 2 major rough patches that he has experienced. Even though he was lucky when we went down that much of the crap that he was lumbered with, Lowe, Akpan, Greer, Brown etc were out of contract, he has only had one window and there was still lingering shite (a couple of whom he added himself) in the squad, and he was struggling to develop any sort of identity. He quickly settled on being quite direct, Graham improved us no end, him and Dack fired us to promotion and Mowbray deserved the adulation.

Last seasons dodgy patch was much more prolonged and, in terms of the manager, much more self-inflicted. He had failed to bring in any defenders, we were heavily reliant on a rash injury prone CB (and still are, his sole injury has left us with 2 options) and a liability in Mulgrew. All the money was tied up on a striker who looked out of his depth, often stuck wide with his only goal coming as a central striker. He publically admitted his faults and insisted to fans that "defenders were coming" so off the back of a season that had highlighted an incredibly troublesome achilles heel but ultimately was far from disastrous, he had the platform to right his previous wrongs and fix what he acknowledged was our major reason.

I think one thing that is clear is that we have never had an exciting brand of football in terms of pretty passing under Mowbray. Not that its essential I must add. Even in our promotion season, we rarely blew teams away, we were quite attritional but it ultimately gave us a platform for our better players who were a class above the poor standard in League 1, and worked very well. Last season was as bad in terms of entertainment as I can remember in recent memory, but it was less effective at a higher level. @chaddyrovers I dont understand why you turn your nose up at "boring" football, if that was number 1 priority then Mowbray would have been potted long ago. However, its the effectiveness that counts because fans criticise "boring" football only if it doesnt yield results. If we bored ourselves into the top 6 and went up no one would complain at all.

But you just look, 5 windows in at very much his squad and how imbalanced it is and that far down the line it really is inexcusable. The main 2 problems, a big money non-scoring striker and a dearth of quality and quantity in defence, have both been doubly compounded this summer. Gallagher never convinced me, we was told this is Breretons break through season, but in both games so far, he was left sat on the bench in game 1, and yesterday, again Mowbray hasnt learnt that he cannot play wide. I still think Graham should be first choice, but you cant really have 12m worth of strikers (the jury is massively out on both) sat on the bench so I think he likes to try and shoehorn them in to the detriment of the team. He has signed 2 wingers, one of whom is seemingly too old, the other has pace and spreads the play but for some unknown reason is nowhere near even the bench. Whereas Armstrong has a free pass despite regularly underperforming.

Defensively, Tosin and Cunningham have the potential to really improve the defence, but theres simply not enough in the way of options. One injury in that position and we have  a kid on the bench who couldnt get into Stanleys squad last season. Meanwhile, Bennett continues to monopolise the RB position, and again yesterday was responsible for a goal conceded. Will he start v Boro? You bet he will. Raya was a constant liability last season, have we improved on him? Seems not.

The question you ask is, are we progressing or stagnating? 

 

[Madon]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Do you really think he would drop down to the championship? 

Do you really think Mark Hughes will get another Premier League job? I'd be extremely surprised if he did.

[joey_big_nose]

Hughes would get a top half Championship job. I can't see him working for Venkys or going back to somewhere he has already managed.

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, Madon said:

Do you really think Mark Hughes will get another Premier League job? I'd be extremely surprised if he did.

Depend what Hughes wants tbh. I know Mark Bowen went for Swansea head coach job in summer. 

But I do think @joey_big_nose is right 100% about him not working Venkys or coming back here. 

[LDRover]

Chaddy, you say we couldn't afford Hughton's wages yet promote the idea of a Director of Football in addition to a manager or head coach. A good D of F would at least be on a salary the same as Mowbray if not more??

[JBiz]

Didn’t we have Rigg as DOFnot so long ago?

Judging by his impact at Burnley, I’d say cold hard cash for wages is a problem both clubs face.

I know, I know, 15m on strikers... the point with wages, they can only be recouped by performances! 

[tomphil]

Hughes can set up a team to be pragmatic and hard to beat whilst pinching goals the other end but also letting them off the leash against the right opposition along with a good counter attack, it was all based from a core style of being hard to beat though. Say all you want about him at top level but given the same as what TM has had to work with the past couple of years i'd expect him to have a more solid looking team to build on now.

Mowbray came into a club destined for relegation and with a thrown together crap pool of defenders and he's never altered that at all in terms of astute signings just relied on the same ones and the youth coming through to which he added Bell.

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by tomphil

[chaddyrovers]

31 minutes ago, Harry The Bass said:

Didn’t we have Rigg as DOFnot so long ago?

Judging by his impact at Burnley, I’d say cold hard cash for wages is a problem both clubs face.

I know, I know, 15m on strikers... the point with wages, they can only be recouped by performances! 

It appears that Rigg been ignored by  Dyche imo. 

[roversfan99]

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

It appears that Rigg been ignored by  Dyche imo. 

To be fair, Dyche has a squad that he has built that doesnt have the same imbalance to it that for example ours does. Every piece fits the puzzle. 

 

 

[sharpysharps86]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

why isnt the club big enough? Brentford have this strcuture works fine for them

Johnson would be my choice to replace Mowbray but I would like a very different structure at the club

Well Johnson is now part of the first team coaching set up now. Or would you want rid of Lowe and bring in another coach or just leave Johnson to do Lowe duties aswell?

Hughton is boring manager with one tactic of boring football and very defensive. Look at how Potter has shown him up in 1 game yesterday with the Brighton team

Really not about the quality of football at this level, worry about that when your team is solidified in the Prem....right now we just need a manager who knows how to get out of the division....Hughton has done it a couple of times at least from my memory. Couldn't care less how we play in this league as long as we win and drag ourselves up to the premier league again.

Yes, TM has done it before with WBA but they arguably had the best side in the division that season.... and football has changed A LOT since then.

[JBiz]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

To be fair, Dyche has a squad that he has built that doesnt have the same imbalance to it that for example ours does. Every piece fits the puzzle. 

 

 

That’s 7 seasons at a club. I probably admire Sean Dyche more than the average Burnley fan, but let’s not forget that their stature and wage bill have made them piss from a selective pot

Dyche for me has a talent in setting up a 442 that’s almost impossible to dominate. Nothing to do with personnel or transfer business; just a well oiled machine designed for resilience 

 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

That’s 7 seasons at a club. I probably admire Sean Dyche more than the average Burnley fan, but let’s not forget that their stature and wage bill have made them piss from a selective pot

Dyche for me has a talent in setting up a 442 that’s almost impossible to dominate. Nothing to do with personnel or transfer business; just a well oiled machine designed for resilience 

 

Its not just clicked now 7 years in, he got his style implemented very quickly and has been very consistent with it, as has been the effectiveness with it.

I posted my views above in a long post on how imbalanced we are, 3 centre backs continuously leaking goals, ineffective wide forwards and 12m on strikers for whom goalscoring is alien. Dyche has a role for everyone and everyone knows what they are doing, as has been the case throughout.

[JBiz]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Its not just clicked now 7 years in, he got his style implemented very quickly and has been very consistent with it, as has been the effectiveness with it.

I posted my views above in a long post on how imbalanced we are, 3 centre backs continuously leaking goals, ineffective wide forwards and 12m on strikers for whom goalscoring is alien. Dyche has a role for everyone and everyone knows what they are doing, as has been the case throughout.

I don’t think we are far off that. Bar centre backs that is.

He also inerited a club that had been run in particular direction for a few years previous.

Its no coincidence their previous manager was also extremely well successful since. For all the Mowbray out stuff, I’ll never be convinced our setup can find such success. That will always impact the context. 

Maybe with Waggot, things might be different?

[roversfan99]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

I don’t think we are far off that. Bar centre backs that is.

He also inerited a club that had been run in particular direction for a few years previous.

Its no coincidence their previous manager was also extremely well successful since. For all the Mowbray out stuff, I’ll never be convinced our setup can find such success. That will always impact the context. 

Maybe with Waggot, things might be different?

The way he inherited the club is not really an excuse that justifies the shape of his squad after spending over 15m over the space of 5 windows.

You touch on the centre backs issue, it is criminal that firstly we had last summer, where he got Rodwell as our third centre back, obviously that backfired, but hes had 2 summers since to fix it and add quality and depth to that position, hes simply not done that. Lenihan is injury prone so we are left with 2 centre backs backed up by a kid who couldnt get on Stanleys bench, and another who has made 8 senior appearances, all in League 2.

But its not just that, we are imbalanced throughout. Right back, blind loyalty to a poor midfielder playing there, with only one natural RB on the books. Out wide, plenty of strikers shoehorned there and unable to make an impact there. And £12m on 2 number 9's who have not suggested that they are a patch on our veteran.

[rovers11]

I can’t believe people are saying we should replace TM with Damien Johnson! Replace an experienced manager with someone who has never managed apart from at youth team level?! Beyond words. Once he lost a few games, they’d be saying “let’s get an experienced man in”. 

I would hazard a guess that many of the people wanting TM out are the same people who wanted TM out when we lost our first two league games in lge 1. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are also the same people who said we needed an experienced manager when we kept appointing rookies one...and now they want a rookie one in Damien Johnson. I would obviously take a Hughes or an Allardyce over TM, but we’d likely go with a cheap option to replace him, most like Johnson. I wouldn’t want that. 

Mowbray has improved us year on year and has also proved the doubters wrong and come through the sticky spells. He’s also shown he knows how to win football matches in this league and built a squad full of good young players. Time to back him over the next couple of months and then re-evaluate when the league has settled down. 

[rovers11]

42 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its not just clicked now 7 years in, he got his style implemented very quickly and has been very consistent with it, as has been the effectiveness with it.

I posted my views above in a long post on how imbalanced we are, 3 centre backs continuously leaking goals, ineffective wide forwards and 12m on strikers for whom goalscoring is alien. Dyche has a role for everyone and everyone knows what they are doing, as has been the case throughout.

Yes, but Dyche is one of the best managers in the country!

[Gary C]

After two games it's very early to make any rash decisions. Yes we were poor against Charlton. Didn't attend the Fulham game but from what I've read they were slightly better. I hope we can have a morale boosting win against Oldham which will hopefully let us kick on against Middlesbrough. COYB