Tony Mowbray Discussion

[JHRover]

37 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

I think this accurately sums up where we are as a football club at this moment in time.  Idealism has finally met reality.  When Mowbray attends functions with supporters his enthusiasm for the game in general shines through and he starts to talk like a supporter - which is why he connects with some many fans.  But, surely, most supporters would have looked at what we had at the end of last season and realised that without major funding - funding we were never likely to get - we would be tottering around mid to lower mid-table.

I suspect that Mowbray expected to be working with a larger budget than the one he has received and you can argue, fairly, that £5 million on Gallagher is a gamble, as was Brereton.  No manager could turn last season's squad into a top-six squad with just £5 million to play with. 

Long term, buying players from abroad and combining them with our own youngsters is likely to be the way forward but that is fraught with danger as we know from the past.  The likelihood is that you continually sell your better young players to keep the club's head above the financial waterline.

Financially, football is moving in a direction where any numbers of clubs are going to be left behind fighting for their very existence, let alone promotion.  There is every possibility that we may become one of them irrespective of who the manager is.  At the moment the owners are keeping us afloat - which is the least they can do all things considered - but the moment they decide they've had enough the choice of manager will be the least of our problems. 

Agree with most of that but then we look at what Warnock did with Cardiff. Less money than what Mowbray has gone through yet got them up in his first season through his expertise for hauling teams to promotion. Wilder at Sheff Utd similar. Both succeeded in getting their clubs up within a couple of seasons on restricted budgets so it can clearly be done. I think Mowbray ties himself in knots with inconsistency in recruitment and selection, never really sure how to approach things from one game to the next. 

[RevidgeBlue]

29 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

I think this accurately sums up where we are as a football club at this moment in time.  Idealism has finally met reality.  When Mowbray attends functions with supporters his enthusiasm for the game in general shines through and he starts to talk like a supporter - which is why he connects with some many fans.  But, surely, most supporters would have looked at what we had at the end of last season and realised that without major funding - funding we were never likely to get - we would be tottering around mid to lower mid-table.

I suspect that Mowbray expected to be working with a larger budget than the one he has received and you can argue, fairly, that £5 million on Gallagher is a gamble, as was Brereton.  No manager could turn last season's squad into a top-six squad with just £5 million to play with. 

Long term, buying players from abroad and combining them with our own youngsters is likely to be the way forward but that is fraught with danger as we know from the past.  The likelihood is that you continually sell your better young players to keep the club's head above the financial waterline.

Financially, football is moving in a direction where any numbers of clubs are going to be left behind fighting for their very existence, let alone promotion.  There is every possibility that we may become one of them irrespective of who the manager is.  At the moment the owners are keeping us afloat - which is the least they can do all things considered - but the moment they decide they've had enough the choice of manager will be the least of our problems. 

We've had numerous spells pre and post Uncle Jack when we've been at a financial disadvantage but have still performed relatively well due to having a good manager and casting our net wide and operating shrewdly and effectively in the transfer market.

That isn't happening at the moment imo, players are being played out of position, favouritism has been shown to certain players whilst others haven't been given a fair crack of the whip, and the last three transfer windows have been an absolute shambles.

As for finishing top 6, I'm not sure what is wrong or unrealistic in aiming for that, you don't actually have to have that great a season to finish 6th, you can finish 20 points behind the automatic promotion places and still sneak into the play offs.

Aiming for a marginal improvement on 15th is an absolute nonsense for me. 

[tomphil]

Complete contradiction i'm afraid, why throw 12 million on two 'investment' type strikers if we are at such a financial disadvantage and why chuck about a million quid on a 35 year old squad man for a season ?

Never mind almost ignoring the defence !

Doesn't add up and somebody has to take responsibility, who knows for the future but right at this moment with this backing we actually hold a financial ADVANTAGE over a lot of clubs in this division who'll probably out perform us.

Nobody expects top 6 but you expect the team to be built in a balanced way whilst there is good backing.

Edited August 13, 2019 by tomphil

[JHRover]

Only have to look at folk on PNE and Wigan websites throwing wobblers and moaning about a lack of investment in comparison to Rovers. Heck even some Prestoners wishing they had Venkys rather than Hemmings. We are mid way on wages according to Waggott and net spending wise must be up there.

Truth is with this lot it's less to do with what budget they sanction and more to do with how they operate. What we've had in hard currency others make up for in having a coherent plan and consistent approach with one ambition in mind. Here we have all sorts of cooks spoiling the broth with different aims, targets, investments to protect, expectations to manage etc.

Edited August 13, 2019 by JHRover

[Parsonblue]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

We've had numerous spells pre and post Uncle Jack when we've been at a financial disadvantage but have still performed relatively well due to having a good manager and casting our net wide and operating shrewdly and effectively in the transfer market.

That isn't happening at the moment imo, players are being played out of position, favouritism has been shown to certain players whilst others haven't been given a fair crack of the whip, and the last three transfer windows have been an absolute shambles.

As for finishing top 6, I'm not sure what is wrong or unrealistic in aiming for that, you don't actually have to have that great a season to finish 6th, you can finish 20 points behind the automatic promotion places and still sneak into the play offs.

Aiming for a marginal improvement on 15th is an absolute nonsense for me. 

I agree we did great in many ways under Bob Saxton - although never really appreciated by many, myself included, at the time.  Don Mackay also did a great job without delivering top flight football.  At the end of the day both managers were faced with selling players to survive - look at the talent we lost from just the mid-seventies on, let alone what we lost in the sixties.  I just think football has changed totally over the past few years in terms of the ridiculous amounts of money paid in fees and wages which puts us at an even greater disadvantage.

Clearly, having been given money to spend and spending the way we have means that ultimately the manager will be judged on results.

Rev - do you honestly think that this is a top six squad?  I'll be honest I think we are mid-table.  Is that good enough to keep the manager in a job - only the owners know the answer to that.

[Mattyblue]

No it isn’t a top 6 side. 

However, a lot of that is down the wrong priorities - £12 million on two young forwards when we have one of the worst defences being the main one, another going into a season with two out and out senior centre halves (one who’s injury prone and is out already, the other a young loanee).

Edited August 13, 2019 by Mattyblue

[Parsonblue]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

No it isn’t a top 6 side. 

However, a lot of that is down the wrong priorities - £12 million on two young forwards when we have one of the worse defences being the main one, going into a season with two out and out senior centre halves (one who’s injury prone and is out already, the other a young loanee) another.

Wouldn't disagree with any of that.  I think the manager sees Williams and Nyambe now as out and out centre backs rather than full-backs.  Personally, I think Williams is OK at centre-back in the Championship but its all a huge gamble - particularly if Brereton and Gallagher don't deliver.

[gumboots]

1 hour ago, Harry The Bass said:

 

Queue; we’ve stumbled and managed to come up through league one “in spite of the manager” purely down to wage bill!

 

 

Sorry to be pedantic. It's cue:

[JBiz]

Just now, gumboots said:

Sorry to be pedantic. It's cue:

Why apologise? I’ve never had perfect English, and you’re never too old to learn!   

[lraC]

I genuinely think that a lot of the problems here are down to the owners not being hands on and us having no one in authority to make the final decisions on spending. Yes the two fees for Gallagher and Brereton look way too high, but if we had a hands on chairman, who has the best intentions of the club, to sanction, or question the signings, perhaps these two wouldn't have happened and a different defence would now be available. 

[TBTF]

3 hours ago, arbitro said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17832521.mowbray-missing-rovers-transfer-target-fulham/

Although it's open to interpretation I read this as backtracking by Mowbray and an attempt to lower supporters expectations (for the ones who believed his top 6 diatribe). The cost of loan players from Premier League clubs has always been fraught with risk and can be expensive. And competing with clubs receiving parachute payments can also be difficult but surely he was aware of this when he talked about top 6. Maybe he was cryptically telling us that the answer lies in bringing players in cheap from Europe but that didn't materialise either.

It reads to me that another season of 'stability' is in the offing and next summer when the loans and out of contract players go we will again begin a rebuild. We are going round in circles.

Completely agree. Kicking the can down the road. Another two windows …..'assess me /us after those''. How many windows did he want when he arrived for the rebuild?? What revolutionary new style can we expect after next Summer then? and god alone knows what kind of claptrap we will be forced to endure between now and then. Still , the booths and smart screens should still be in good working order to give us our marginal gains. FFS !! 

There is zero indication he has any idea how to build a side other than ramming it with utility players. This bloke becomes more of a myth by the day.

[Vinjay]

On 11/08/2019 at 15:35, joey_big_nose said:

Hughes would get a top half Championship job. I can't see him working for Venkys or going back to somewhere he has already managed.

He's never said anything against Venkys. I doubt his ego could take the Championship unless it's somebody absolutely certain to go up. If Newcastle for instance were relegated this season perhaps he would go there (since they have been promoted with relative ease on two occasions in past decade) but how many certainties have there been? How many are there at present? None.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Vinjay17

[AllRoverAsia]

 

 

 

 

 

 

4

43 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Wouldn't disagree with any of that.  I think the manager sees Williams and Nyambe now as out and out centre backs rather than full-backs.  Personally, I think Williams is OK at centre-back in the Championship but its all a huge gamble - particularly if Brereton and Gallagher don't deliver.

Another of Mowbray's player reinventions based to quite an extent on Mowbray watching Namibia on the Telly and being guided by their coach. I hope he takes into account the level of opposition faced in that failed campaign.

Nevermind it frees up RB for his Pal.

Brereton and Gallagher will not deliver this season. Brereton will face a lot of appearances as a Sub out of his natural position and Gallagher whilst being a willing workhorse is not a natural goalscoring striker at Championship level. With an aging DG and an erratic Dack, I expect us to be way down the goal scoring charts at the end of this season. Ironically I expect midfield to contribute through Johnson.

[AllRoverAsia]

Mods: I am sick and tired of posting a quote which has a space above it of varying size and which always results in a post which cannot be edited.

[Stuart]

4 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I agree. I don’t know why he put so much pressure on himself tbh. The team finished 15th. To have stated that he was looking to further improve looking for a top 10 finish would have kept most fans and the owners happy imo.

When he came out at the end of last season saying he wanted top 6 I was sure he must have been given the nod by Venkys to spend £15-20m net this window. That obv was not the case...

So now they’re stuck with the expectation of a top 6 club and the budget of a bottom half club. Barring a miracle, I think he’s signed his own death warrant.

Except we spent £5m on one player.

[Stuart]

4 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

You were doing so well until this!! 

Mowbrays Championship record with Rovers is pretty far from abysmal. In the season we went down the team performed in line the top 6 following his arrival. Last season (barring that god awful run which exposed our squad depth) we were a top half team in our first season back and we’re two games in to this season... I’m not saying Mowbray is tearing up trees in the Championship. His results are fair at worst and good at best. 

Abysmal, they are not. 

For the money he has spent, his return in the Championship is abysmal.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

Wouldn't disagree with any of that.  I think the manager sees Williams and Nyambe now as out and out centre backs rather than full-backs.  Personally, I think Williams is OK at centre-back in the Championship but its all a huge gamble - particularly if Brereton and Gallagher don't deliver.

In Nyambes case that is purely because he wants Bennett at right-back and loaned 3 other centre-halves out. I don't believe it was in any way a plan that he has been thinking about for too long. 

So basically Nyambe goes from 1st choice right-back to 4th choice CB under Mowbray.  All so Bennett can be shoe horned in out of position. 

Where else would you see it?? 

[Paul Mani]

3 hours ago, tomphil said:

You cover your arse more than he does, talk about back tracking.... ?

How so? I stated clearly at the beginning of the window that we had to judge the window at the end of the window - we’ll its not good enough. So my feeling is that the manager has let himself down and I think his days are numbered. Club first!

[JBiz]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

In Nyambes case that is purely because he wants Bennett at right-back and loaned 3 other centre-halves out. I don't believe it was in any way a plan that he has been thinking about for too long. 

So basically Nyambe goes from 1st choice right-back to 4th choice CB under Mowbray.  All so Bennett can be shoe horned in out of position. 

Where else would you see it?? 

I think maybe it’s less straightforward- Nyambe offers that position and also RB.

His return from the ACN may have also impacted his pre season compared to Bennett. That’s why I’d save judgement on who is “1st choice” this season till after a lot more games 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

I think maybe it’s less straightforward- Nyambe offers that position and also RB.

His return from the ACN may have also impacted his pre season compared to Bennett. That’s why I’d save judgement on who is “1st choice” this season till after a lot more games 

Bennett was at the end of last season though as well wasn't he? 

[Paul Mani]

26 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Except we spent £5m on one player.

£5m is nothing in that league now. Clubs vying for those spots have huge budgets. What’s clear now is that our budget doesn’t match our ambitions. It’s the managers job to deal with expectations and if he says he wants promotion then he has to have access to a much bigger budget. He hasn’t! So he will fall.

But it doesn’t change the fact that his championship record isn’t abysmal.

[Paul Mani]

29 minutes ago, Stuart said:

For the money he has spent, his return in the Championship is abysmal.

No. It isn’t. It’s somewhere between fair and good. 

[JBiz]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Bennett was at the end of last season though as well wasn't he? 

Last 10 games of season, 5 starts at RB or RCB each.

Looking at the results, I’d say their impact was mixed but looks as if Nyambe was dropped after a few straight defeats.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

Last 10 games of season, 5 starts at RB or RCB each.

Looking at the results, I’d say their impact was mixed but looks as if Nyambe was dropped after a few straight defeats.

So Bennett started at RB and Nyambe at RCB, is that what you mean? 

[Crimpshrine]

3 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

At the moment the owners are keeping us afloat - which is the least they can do all things considered - but the moment they decide they've had enough the choice of manager will be the least of our problems. 

Assuming Venky's will leave at some point - dumping us in a worse state than we are now - then I'd rather they do it sooner rather than later.

Imagine if they hang around, our fortunes on the pitch decline and they leave us in league 1 or 2 with a dwindling fan base?

Obviously, if they could get us promoted and then disappear, great but that's not going to happen.