Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Mattyblue]

Maybe BB doesn’t matter ‘strategically’, if AA goes for £15m+, but we DID delve into another club for a 19 year old, for a hefty premium too.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Paul Mani]

Mowbray has done a very good job overall.

I said his transfer business would make or break him in the summer. In Walton, Tosin, Cunningham, Johnson, Downing, Holtby and Gallagher he has undoubtedly improved the first XI. The likes of Mulgrew and Smallwood are gone. Bennett down the pecking order and our ability to deal with the last 6 weeks are proof of that added depth. Gallagher is not done and still has the chance to make his mark. I think next season will be the acid test for him to come to the fore. Likewise BB.

He has developed the likes of Lenihan, Nyambe and Travis beyond our expectations whilst they fully expect Buckley, JRC and Butterworth to be first team squad members every week next season. There’s more players behind those too.

There are now eight or nine, 7/8 figure assets in our team / squad that we did not have when Mowbray turned up.

He has successfully transitioned the playing style as proven Tosins role and by AA’s ability to play upfront.

If he takes us up this season it will be nothing short of a miracle considering where we’ve come from, budget and the injuries to key players. Sir Tony Mowbray?

Next challenge (assuming we don’t go up) 

1) Keep our key players in the summer. A playoff charge will create interest and I don’t want to see the likes of RN, DL, LT or AA leave. Though a sale somewhere would help.

2) Get SG and BB firing.

3) Fully integrate the likes of Buckley, JRC and Butterworth.

4) Find a way to navigate the foreign and domestic markets to replace Walton, Tosin and Bell whilst looking for diamonds in the creative positions. We have to improve again.

Well done Tony. You’re doing a Very good job on a mid table budget. My only reservation is can you do an amazing job in the same conditions? Because that’s what it’s going to take!

I’m not sure, but I’d give him another season to prove it!

[matt83]

19 hours ago, bboy said:

To dissect my opinions on Tony a liitle. 

Tony the man manager- his strongest skill, he clearly has the backing of his players throughout his time here. Best we've had since Big Sam. Only issues I have is too many pointless contracts last season & strange treatment of Danny Graham this season. 

Tony the tactision- umm hit and miss, he gets some games perfectly. He clearly wanted to change the way we play this season. However to many times early this season we where round peg in a square hole. Bennett RB was Terrible, the wide striker situation wasn't/ still isn't a solution. I have no doubt that since more players are playing in their natural position our results improved is no coincidence. 

Tony the player developer-- often this feels like it happens when he's forced to eg. Travis. He's also too loyal to his league one crew for too long. However if his hand was forced or not he's brought a lot of academy players into the first team and some have thrived. 

Tony the recruiter--mixed bag, take out Dack and it's fairly poor record. The problem is he is too old school in the transfer market too patient and refuses to let a new player instantly come into the team. He tells them that too and I feel like we've missed out on good players because of it. Too many times it feels potentially good signing seemed to have slipped away. 

 

Tony the Man- it's hard not to like the Football loving Northern bloke. I'm grateful for the 3 years. He's not the perfect manager but his time so far goes down as a success and it's a long time since we've had a manager who I'd say did that. Here's to Tony taking tovers back to where we belong! 

 

That is a very good assessment of the manager. Also I would truly like to believe the last sentence as well, but for all the reasons above I think under Mowbray we will only ever be in that 8th-14th zone. 

[Paul Mani]

10 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

the inside story of Mowbray by the LT

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18250849.inside-story-tony-mowbrays-three-years-rovers/

Brilliant article.

[Stuart]

Ultimately, the only real debate here is whether people think Mowbray can get us promoted before the plug is pulled, as it was with Bowyer. The longer the wrong person is given spending money the more chance of the next manager failing as well due to having zero money to spend and the best players being sold.

[AllRoverAsia]

LT - fair to say I chucked up.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Ultimately, the only real debate here is whether people think Mowbray can get us promoted before the plug is pulled, as it was with Bowyer. The longer the wrong person is given spending money the more chance of the next manager failing as well due to having zero money to spend and the best players being sold.

Plug is pulled? Doesn't need to happen  look at Brentford. They sell Maupay and Konsa last summer. But at are in the playoffs this season. Norwich sold James Maddison and Murphy in the summer before the season got promoted. All down to recruitment and structure. 

We are going the right way as a club and doing very well. 

 

 

[chaddyrovers]

11 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

LT - fair to say I chucked up.

Why? 

[Mattyblue]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Plug is pulled? Doesn't need to happen  look at Brentford. They sell Maupay and Konsa last summer. But at are in the playoffs this season. Norwich sold James Maddison and Murphy in the summer before the season got promoted. All down to recruitment and structure. 

We are going the right way as a club and doing very well. 

 

 

No it doesn’t NEED to happen if a club is run correctly with a strategy that is fit for purpose.

But we have been optimistic before, c2014.

We will see if we are a now a properly run club over the next season or two, or if the current execs are just talking a good game. As always we are at the whim of unpredictable owners with the added spectre of FFP.
 

 

[AllRoverAsia]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why? 

Spin doctoring has that effect on me. After a lifetime in Sales & Marketing, I know smarmy bullshite when I see it.

FFS give TM a Knighthoodm, he did get us up from L1 ......

[Paul Mani]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Ultimately, the only real debate here is whether people think Mowbray can get us promoted before the plug is pulled, as it was with Bowyer. The longer the wrong person is given spending money the more chance of the next manager failing as well due to having zero money to spend and the best players being sold.

I think there’s more to the debate than than that. Though promotion or the managers ability to deliver promotion is the number one factor. Also if we’re judging vs GB then TM is pretty far ahead. His results and league positions are increasing every year. Gaz couldn’t sustain improvements.

[Mattyblue]

Gaz actually kept a compete basket case up (The Season of Five Managers), then had us 8th and 9th. It fell away for Bowyer once the cash dried up. TM has had a much more stable club to operate  in.

So is TM ‘far ahead’ of GB?

Edited February 22, 2020 by Mattyblue

[RoverCanada]

Minor point from the article, but I hadn't seen confirmation before that the academy, and presumably the associated infrastructure, is costing £4m/year.

So, for future reference, that should put our FFP loss limit at £17m/year, or £51m over 3 years, rather than the headline limit of £13m/£39m.

So, League One loss of £17m, £20m last year, giving us a £14m loss to 'play' with this year. I suspect the Raya + Nuttall sales, which would've been pure profit, are what's keeping us just within the lines this year. Gallagher purchase will be amortized, so not as much of an issue this year. (Plus what our wages are at, income, etc etc, my posts go on long enough haha)

Edited February 22, 2020 by RoverCanada

[Scotland1]

4 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Gaz actually kept a compete basket case up (The Season of Five Managers), then had us 8th and 9th. It fell away for Bowyer once the cash dried up. TM has had a much more stable club to operate  in.

So is TM ‘far ahead’ of GB?

Not for me Bowyer best manager we’ve had since Big Sam

[Amo]

Will 8th be the glass ceiling?

[Waggy76]

3 hours ago, Scotland1 said:

Not for me Bowyer best manager we’ve had since Big Sam

He had a far better squad than Tm King , Rhodes , Gestede ,Dunn , Cairney etc ....Probably in time both will be judged as not quite being savvy enough...

[47er]

4 hours ago, Waggy76 said:

He had a far better squad than Tm King , Rhodes , Gestede ,Dunn , Cairney etc ....Probably in time both will be judged as not quite being savvy enough...

He assembled a far better squad than Tony. There is a difference.

[Leonard Venkhater]

15 hours ago, 47er said:

He assembled a far better squad than Tony. There is a difference.

You have to subtract Dunn, Rhodes and King from his "assembly" though..

[Amo]

16 hours ago, 47er said:

He assembled a far better squad than Tony. There is a difference.

We had a high turnover of players during Bowyer's time but you can't deny that he plucked some absolute gems. I've heard that his dad takes a lot of credit for that. 

That said, with the talent at his disposal it's criminal that we never broke into the top six. We were undone by a conservative, unambitious manager who was too loyal to certain players. Hmmmm.

[Paul Mani]

On 22/02/2020 at 10:42, Mattyblue said:

Gaz actually kept a compete basket case up (The Season of Five Managers), then had us 8th and 9th. It fell away for Bowyer once the cash dried up. TM has had a much more stable club to operate  in.

So is TM ‘far ahead’ of GB?

Really? Yes I accept your points about the five managers but Mowbray took over from Coyle with a smaller budget and worse squad.

Whichever way you cut it, we are splitting hairs on how bad they had it. Certainly not as cut and dry as you suggest.

 

 

[Mattyblue]

Splitting hairs? I take it you’ve forgotten the 2012/2013 version of Blackburn Rovers?

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Splitting hairs? I take it you’ve forgotten the 2012/2013 version of Blackburn Rovers?

Nah, I remember that season. It was piss poor and very sad to see. We had some dross but we also had Robbo, Hanley, Dann, Olsen, Givet, MGP, Dunn, Rhodes, King...Types of quality Mowbray could’ve only dreamt about. 

Are you forgetting how shit Owen Coyle really is / was? Forgetting about Akpan, Greer, Wes Brown, Luke Steele?

Like I said, I’m not saying that either manager had it easy but I don’t think there was much difference between the two scenarios. Both walked into a sinking, rotten ship. If anything Gaz had a better quality squad and a bigger budget to start with.

[Mattyblue]

I wasn’t particularly a big Bowyer fan.

But by his third full season he had to flog pretty much any player of decent quality, Mowbray has spent £12million in his third season. GB started with a basket case, ended in an embargo.

I probably rate Mowbray higher, but how is the job TM’s done ‘far ahead’ of GB?

Edited February 23, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Amo]

 

31 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

If anything Gaz had a better quality squad and a bigger budget to start with.

Bowyer spent marginally more than Mowbray in their first full seasons.

[Paul Mani]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

I wasn’t particularly a big Bowyer fan.

But by his third full season he had to flog pretty much any player of decent quality, Mowbray has spent £12million in his third season. GB started with a basket case, ended in an embargo.

I probably rate Mowbray higher, but how is the job TM’s done ‘far ahead’ of GB?

I didn’t say that. You said TM walked into a ‘much more stable’ club than GB had and I don’t think he did. My point was that both managers walked into very bad situations and if anything GB had it slightly better because he had a bigger budget and better players.

The two of them share many traits in terms of the types of people they are but I don’t think there’s much doubt that Mowbray is doing a better job than Bowyer did.