Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Dolly blue]

Rolo and Mattyblue keep me going ! I feel some kind of pain relief when I read their words, in that, they suffer too, they see the bigger picture . 
If we, ordinarily people can see and feel as we do WHY, OH WHY can no one at Ewood do the same ?
 

Is it can’t...or is it won’t? 
I get angry with myself for allowing Tony Mowbray and his sad, inept band of staff to get me down.....but, boy, do they get me down. 
 

But, wait....there’s always next season ??.....not with this man there ain’t !

[tomphil]

28 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

That article was the best, and most thought provoking one that I've read from Sharpe.

There is a big chunk of the fanbase that go by the "this club and Mowbray must not be criticised ever by anyone" mantra.

When you look on here it tends to be people from elsewhere around the country or even globe who are Mowbrays biggest defenders. I don't think it's a coincidence it's like that.

Then on other platforms it tends to be the young elements who defend him to the hilt, again no coincidence. They've probably only known Rovers under Venkys and all the shower of shite they've served up until TM conjoured up 1 memorable season so it's all they know and cling on to. 

Understandable but they don't see the pattern developing and the little sub plots more seasoned seen it all before fans might see. A change might see a poor season net season and a lower finish whilst a new man beds in his methods. That would be met with derision in some parts, should have stayed as we were etc etc. However you might have 2 or 3 really good seasons after that, that is the gamble yet a lot just like to assume we'll go down again when it really needn't be the case.  The path that lead to that last time was exceptional circumstances all started by the takeover and the instillation of crooks, it was inevitable.

 

[PeteJD13]

5 minutes ago, tomphil said:

When you look on here it tends to be people from elsewhere around the country or even globe who are Mowbrays biggest defenders. I don't think it's a coincidence it's like that.

Then on other platforms it tends to be the young elements who defend him to the hilt, again no coincidence. They've probably only known Rovers under Venkys and all the shower of shite they've served up until TM conjoured up 1 memorable season so it's all they know and cling on to. 

Understandable but they don't see the pattern developing and the little sub plots more seasoned seen it all before fans might see. A change might see a poor season net season and a lower finish whilst a new man beds in his methods. That would be met with derision in some parts, should have stayed as we were etc etc. However you might have 2 or 3 really good seasons after that, that is the gamble yet a lot just like to assume we'll go down again when it really needn't be the case.  The path that lead to that last time was exceptional circumstances all started by the takeover and the instillation of crooks, it was inevitable.

 

Totally agree with this, any sign of descent on twitter and facebook is shut down by the same old happy with mediocrity brigade, twitter is the same the contrarian cheer leading led by one or two well known rovers fans ( well known on twitter ). Who will see positivise in anything don't go against that grain otherwise the ridicule starts. We have the only fan base that actively doesn't want success because then we have to question the manager when we fail. This is one of the few places where you can debate the club properly rather than be shouted down by people who either never go and live miles away and don't see the damage that's done. Or those that will back the club to hilt and ridicule any suggestion that everything isn't amazing and positive.

[Mattyblue]

Element of truth in those observations of social media. However, in ‘real life’, at Ewood, TM has always been highly popular, I can only compare the adulation he receives to that of Mark Hughes (!), no one else since Sparky comes close for blind support.

It all leaves me a bit bemused, not withstanding the overall decent job he’s done, but shows what ‘success’ can do to the mindset of fans of a much diminished club, even if that success is second in the third division with a Championship budget. 

But there’s certainly no groundswell of pitch forkers after his head, though it was building in that Barnsley home game. A poor start to next season and that could well change, but Waggott would be well in his rights currently to tell the owners he has the fans onside.

[PeteJD13]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Element of truth in those observations of social media. However, in ‘real life’, at Ewood, TM has always been highly popular, I can only compare the adulation he receives to that of Mark Hughes (!), no one else since Sparky comes close for blind support.

It all leaves me a bit bemused, not withstanding the overall decent job he’s done, but shows what ‘success’ can do to the mindset of fans of a much diminished club, even if that success is second in the third division with a Championship budget. 

But there’s certainly no groundswell of pitch forkers after his head, though it was building in that Barnsley home game. A poor start to next season and that could well change, but Waggott would be well in his rights currently to tell the owners he has the fans onside.

a poor start to next season will just be excused - insert any excuse bar blaming the manager. I guess I am guilty to a degree as a match going fan who doesn't want Mowbray out but I think that's more based on A I dont think they would sack him anyway B Its going to be another scrapheap desperado that comes in. If he is ruthless this summer and really tries to re shape the squad then i think that will get quite a lot of waverers back onside

[Dreams of 1995]

The funny thing is that before this season began literally nobody on this forum put play offs down as a realistic outcome. In fact, I remember when TM came out with it pre-season and the attitude on here was that he is reaching and it probably wouldn't happen. In that respect I guess he dug his own grave, for want of a better phrase.

We have scored the right amount of goals to be up there this season, but on the face of it conceded 15 - 20 goals more than we should have. Mowbray shouldn't have promised defenders are coming if they weren't. To put things into perspective after all the melodrama about our defence we have saved ourselves 9 goals so far, with 2 games remaining. On top of that we'd need to score more than 4 to improve on last years attacking performance too. Whilst the maximum points progression is 6.

There were too many promises, too many eye catching headlines and quotes from Mowbray. We have stood still this season but in the process of standing still we have supposed to have replaced some of our poorer players (Johnson for Smallwood, Holtby, Cunningham for Bell, Tosin for Williams). It's all been a bit of a farce really.

I don't know how much money TM will receive in the summer, if any, but anything short of a major play off push next season means he has to go. That leaves him with a lot of work to do because there's just as many holes in his ship as last year despite the spending. I can imagine there will be vultures circling for some of our better players too, whilst the likes of Bennett can think of an easy few months knowing his place in the squad is guaranteed until retirement.

I was scathing about Mowbray's treatment of Nyambe over 12 months ago, and I am still angry by it now. If he leaves it will be Mowbray's fault no question about it - he should be our guaranteed first choice right back unless injured, instead he plays second fiddle to a bloke who isn't really good enough to play in any position, and certainly not good enough to play at full back. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Dreams of 1995

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

23 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I assume you are referring to me ? You seem to be obsessed - I would suggest you seek medical assistance.

The likes of Phil Brown are far more likely to be recruited as a successor than some of the highly optimistic names bandied around on here.

Just to remind you that last year when some of the more excitable posters were screaming that we would go down under TM I explicitly predicted we would not - I've been proven right.

 

How about a prediction for next season if Mowbray stays ?

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

How about a prediction for next season if Mowbray stays ?

Will do when it's kick off time for then.

[TruRover]

For me, our current situation parallels the one experienced under Bowyer. Under Bowyer we developed a really good squad, with players such as Rhodes, Cairney, Gestede, Keane, Hanley, Conway, Evans and Duffy all coming through to give our squad a really strong spine with a clinical attack. While Bowyer undoubtedly deserved credit for stabilising the club and building that team, he deserved as much criticism for not turning that team into promotion challengers. In a season which Rhodes and Gestede scored 40 between them he couldn’t manage higher than a mid-table finish, which for me was hugely disappointing. That squad then got broken up/sold and from there on we sleepwalked into relegation to league one. The issue was that Bowyer, due to his previous good work, had seemed to place him in an unsackable position, meaning we never saw the full potential to that team. By the time he was sacked it was too late and that team was gone. 
 

Compare that to now and it’s difficult to not see the similarities. Mowbray has built a good squad, with players such as dack, Armstrong, Lenihan, travis, Nyambe, Evans and rothwell all being players I believe capable of pushing this club towards promotion. When you add to that to the handful of very promising young players we currently have you have to think that next season is a massive opportunity for us to go for promotion. The issue is that it is clear, like it was under Bowyer, that Mowbray doesn’t have the tactical nouse, bottle or even common sense to take us to that next level, however also like Bowyer, he has seemed to have got himself in a position where he is unsackable and exempt from critism. I feel as if he has the owners under his thumb. You do feel that if we don’t make it next year then we will lose the majority of our top players and our chance will have gone. 
 

What is most worrying about TM that his decisions over the past two seasons have been extremely questionable. Persistence with players such as Bennett, Gallagher and Smallwood have been infuriating while his tactical thinking of strikers playing out wide is the most backward idea I have seen in a long time, and his refusal to buy any natural wide players only enhances this frustration. How you can have a squad with no genuine wide players is a mystery, and how you can line up a 4 3 3 formation with 3 central strikers as the front 3 is just outrageous.

While we must all be grateful for the job TM has done we need something different for next season and I can only hope someone at the club has the balls to push for that.    

Edited July 15, 2020 by TruRover

[tomphil]

48 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

The funny thing is that before this season began literally nobody on this forum put play offs down as a realistic outcome. In fact, I remember when TM came out with it pre-season and the attitude on here was that he is reaching and it probably wouldn't happen. In that respect I guess he dug his own grave, for want of a better phrase.

We have scored the right amount of goals to be up there this season, but on the face of it conceded 15 - 20 goals more than we should have. Mowbray shouldn't have promised defenders are coming if they weren't. To put things into perspective after all the melodrama about our defence we have saved ourselves 9 goals so far, with 2 games remaining. On top of that we'd need to score more than 4 to improve on last years attacking performance too. Whilst the maximum points progression is 6.

There were too many promises, too many eye catching headlines and quotes from Mowbray. We have stood still this season but in the process of standing still we have supposed to have replaced some of our poorer players (Johnson for Smallwood, Holtby, Cunningham for Bell, Tosin for Williams). It's all been a bit of a farce really.

I don't know how much money TM will receive in the summer, if any, but anything short of a major play off push next season means he has to go. That leaves him with a lot of work to do because there's just as many holes in his ship as last year despite the spending. I can imagine there will be vultures circling for some of our better players too, whilst the likes of Bennett can think of an easy few months knowing his place in the squad is guaranteed until retirement.

I was scathing about Mowbray's treatment of Nyambe over 12 months ago, and I am still angry by it now. If he leaves it will be Mowbray's fault no question about it - he should be our guaranteed first choice right back unless injured, instead he plays second fiddle to a bloke who isn't really good enough to play in any position, and certainly not good enough to play at full back. 

These are the bare facts of it all nothing really needs adding aside from touching on the Dack thing and to a lesser extent Evans.

The loss of those 2 is a blow but we've more than enough cover and the muddling nature of other things that persist if they are playing or not balance it out.  If anyone really believes we'd have been guaranteed top 6 if they'd been fit i think they need to look a little closer at the weak points. 

[DE.]

9 minutes ago, TruRover said:

For me, our current situation parallels the one experienced under Bowyer. Under Bowyer we developed a really good squad, with players such as Rhodes, Cairney, Gestede, Keane, Hanley, Conway, Evans and Duffy all coming through to give our squad a really strong spine with a clinical attack. While Bowyer undoubtedly deserved credit for stabilising the club and building that team, he deserved as much criticism for not turning that team into promotion challengers. In a season which Rhodes and Gestede scored 40 between them he couldn’t manage higher than a mid-table finish, which for me was hugely disappointing. That squad then got broken up/sold and from there on we sleepwalked into relegation to league one. The issue was that Bowyer, due to his previous good work, had seemed to place him in an unsackable position, meaning we never saw the full potential to that team. By the time he was sacked it was too late and that team was gone. 
 

Compare that to now and it’s difficult to not see the similarities. Mowbray has built a good squad, with players such as dack, Armstrong, Lenihan, travis, Nyambe, Evans and rothwell all being players I believe capable of pushing this club towards promotion. When you add to that to the handful of very promising young players we currently have you have to think that next season is a massive opportunity for us to go for promotion. The issue is that it is clear, like it was under Bowyer, that Mowbray doesn’t have the tactical nouse, bottle or even common sense to take us to that next level, however also like Bowyer, he has seemed to have got himself in a position where he is unsackable and exempt from critism. I feel as if he has the owners under his thumb. You do feel that if we don’t make it next year then we will lose the majority of our top players and our chance will have gone. 
 

What is most worrying about TM that his decisions over the past two seasons have been extremely questionable. Persistence with players such as Bennett, Gallagher and Smallwood have been infuriating while his tactical thinking of strikers playing out wide is the most backward idea I have seen in a long time, and his refusal to buy any natural wide players only enhances this frustration. How you can have a squad with no genuine wide players is a mystery, and how you can line up a 4 3 3 formation with 3 central strikers as the front 3 is just outrageous.

While we must all be grateful for the job TM has done we need something different for next season and I can only hope someone at the club has the balls to push for that.    

Completely agree, and I think this summer could be to Mowbray what the summer of 2015 was to Bowyer. Better players leaving, replacements not on the same level, tactics not good enough to compensate - all resulting in a sharp and painful regression.

I really do hope I'm wrong on that, but even if Tony does get a decent budget I can only see us treading water for another season unfortunately, and at some point the above will come to pass. We will have to start selling at some point, presumably, to keep ourselves in line with FFP.

[Amo]

The treatment of Harrison Reed pretty much sums up Mowbray's philosophy. A tidy little terrier of a player. Wasn't trusted to play centre-midfield by Mowbray as apparently he needed to learn the game from the mighty Richie Smallwood. Plays centrally at Fulham and they've secured playoff contention. Laughable.

[savage90]

So much deadwood to get rid of this summer... including the manager and his senior friends. Get to work Venkys!

Edited July 15, 2020 by savage90

[Bigdoggsteel]

34 minutes ago, Amo said:

The treatment of Harrison Reed pretty much sums up Mowbray's philosophy. A tidy little terrier of a player. Wasn't trusted to play centre-midfield by Mowbray as apparently he needed to learn the game from the mighty Richie Smallwood. Plays centrally at Fulham and they've secured playoff contention. Laughable.

Ya,remember that shite. Muddled Mowbray. 

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, Amo said:

The treatment of Harrison Reed pretty much sums up Mowbray's philosophy. A tidy little terrier of a player. Wasn't trusted to play centre-midfield by Mowbray as apparently he needed to learn the game from the mighty Richie Smallwood. Plays centrally at Fulham and they've secured playoff contention. Laughable.

Apparently we ‘shouldn’t hang on every word Mowbray says’, or something like that. 
(If it shows him up, otherwise, it’s fine).

[LDRover]

8 hours ago, Rolo PB said:

The trouble is, this is a well-trodden route in the Copybook of Tony Mowbray. A week back, prior to Cardiff and following the utterly woeful and woebegone showings against Wigan and Barnsley, we needed to see a late and sustained charge. What did we get? Win one, draw one, lose one. In keeping with the season. In keeping with the managers record. That kind of infuriating and tiresome predictability just creates a detrimental staleness that engenders apathy amongst the ever diminishing fan base, and ensures that any player of talent and therefore ambition will not grace Ewood for long. 

Mowbray has done a solid job here but his usefulness expired long ago. The club needs an injection of something to really get it going again. We need some excitement and this familiar pattern of WDL is not going to create it. Let’s be completely and frankly honest here: you could have stuck a fork in Rovers’ “play off ambitions” before Mowbray uttered a word to the media about the seasons aims. Any notion that a push was on died like a louse in Roy Keane’s beard with any number of Walton’s catalogue of gaffes. A serious push cannot be built on such shifting sands. 

Last night was a disappointing, but entirely expected conclusion to a season that has been more grind than kind to us supporters. So much of the play churned out week after week is disarticulated and banal. Mowbray is a procrastinator and a manager with that habit is diametrically opposed to the club and indeed towns’ need for promotion back to the top flight. 

Tangible concerns have been flagged on here for a while now, which really does beg many pertinent questions. Primarily what are the owners hopes and aims for the club they’ve presided over for what must be its most lugubrious decade? Equally importantly, who within the corridors of Ewood has the expertise to deduce that the manager has ran out of ideas and indeed time? 

The answers, as ever, will not become clear, because it is abundantly evident that these questions are only on the agenda of supporters. The Rao family can be inculpated for many a sin against the club and us the fans. But these vacuums that they have created over the years, beginning with the power vacuum in the boardroom when John Williams was marginalised, through to today with the vacuum for just basic information about targets set, plans made etc. result in what we see on and off the pitch: a very cushy working environment where performance seems to be unquestioned, and fans are unsure what to even expect of their club anymore. There is not a trace of hunger for success at Ewood, and without that you have to ask “what is the point?”

 

 

 

Always nails it this fella. Bravo!!!

[oldjamfan1]

9 hours ago, Rolo PB said:

The trouble is, this is a well-trodden route in the Copybook of Tony Mowbray. A week back, prior to Cardiff and following the utterly woeful and woebegone showings against Wigan and Barnsley, we needed to see a late and sustained charge. What did we get? Win one, draw one, lose one. In keeping with the season. In keeping with the managers record. That kind of infuriating and tiresome predictability just creates a detrimental staleness that engenders apathy amongst the ever diminishing fan base, and ensures that any player of talent and therefore ambition will not grace Ewood for long. 

Mowbray has done a solid job here but his usefulness expired long ago. The club needs an injection of something to really get it going again. We need some excitement and this familiar pattern of WDL is not going to create it. Let’s be completely and frankly honest here: you could have stuck a fork in Rovers’ “play off ambitions” before Mowbray uttered a word to the media about the seasons aims. Any notion that a push was on died like a louse in Roy Keane’s beard with any number of Walton’s catalogue of gaffes. A serious push cannot be built on such shifting sands. 

Last night was a disappointing, but entirely expected conclusion to a season that has been more grind than kind to us supporters. So much of the play churned out week after week is disarticulated and banal. Mowbray is a procrastinator and a manager with that habit is diametrically opposed to the club and indeed towns’ need for promotion back to the top flight. 

Tangible concerns have been flagged on here for a while now, which really does beg many pertinent questions. Primarily what are the owners hopes and aims for the club they’ve presided over for what must be its most lugubrious decade? Equally importantly, who within the corridors of Ewood has the expertise to deduce that the manager has ran out of ideas and indeed time? 

The answers, as ever, will not become clear, because it is abundantly evident that these questions are only on the agenda of supporters. The Rao family can be inculpated for many a sin against the club and us the fans. But these vacuums that they have created over the years, beginning with the power vacuum in the boardroom when John Williams was marginalised, through to today with the vacuum for just basic information about targets set, plans made etc. result in what we see on and off the pitch: a very cushy working environment where performance seems to be unquestioned, and fans are unsure what to even expect of their club anymore. There is not a trace of hunger for success at Ewood, and without that you have to ask “what is the point?”

 

 

 

Take a bow sir/madam. Though far too eloquent for the chicken chokers to ever understand, more's the pity.

[Mercer]

4 hours ago, K-Hod said:

 

The lack of accountability from local journalists is a massive bug bear for me as well. 

 

IMO, the LT and Radio Lancashire have for a long, long time been way below par.

Folk of my age group might well remember David Allin who succeeded Alf Thornton.  Hell, that was one culture change.  Allin called a spade a feckin spade and the fans and readers loved his razor sharp insights and comments.  Sadly, Allin didn't last too long as he caused ructions at Ewood and he was replaced by the more pragmatic Peter White from the Blackburn Times.

As for Neil Yardley's commentaries, is he for real?  IMO, a cringeworthy joke.

[Paul Mani]

Excellent posts by Rolo and Matty. I would agree with most of what was said and much of Mowbrays tenure has been filled with inconsistencies.

I think there are lots of reasons for and against him carrying on and they have been discussed until the cows come home but I really can’t see past two glaring points.

1) TM will live and die by the success of the two strikers whom he paid £11m and don’t appear to have a goal in them. If they don’t improve dramatically, VERY soon, I don’t see how he survives.

2) Assuming he stays on, we have to be in the playoff positions all season next year for him to have a chance of remaining in charge.

Im worried about Venkys position and continued support. By all accounts the pandemic has hit them hard.

[unleaded]

Noticed the local radio station and local paper have been banned from Hull FC ..

 

At least they asked awkward questions on behalf of the locals ... Bravo ? to them 

over to you Mr Bays & Company ... 

[PeteJD13]

21 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Excellent posts by Rolo and Matty. I would agree with most of what was said and much of Mowbrays tenure has been filled with inconsistencies.

I think there are lots of reasons for and against him carrying on and they have been discussed until the cows come home but I really can’t see past two glaring points.

1) TM will live and die by the success of the two strikers whom he paid £11m and don’t appear to have a goal in them. If they don’t improve dramatically, VERY soon, I don’t see how he survives.

2) Assuming he stays on, we have to be in the playoff positions all season next year for him to have a chance of remaining in charge.

Im worried about Venkys position and continued support. By all accounts the pandemic has hit them hard.

Hit them big time as poultry was blamed for the spread of covid so the business was massively impacted it is started to recover in the past week with prices going back up suspect football is a the bottom of the pile

[roversfan99]

Covid or no Covid, everyones affected but it doesnt give them an excuse although I am sure advocates will use it! Especially considering that they never prioritise us and theres always delays.

[Mercer]

1 minute ago, unleaded said:

Noticed the local radio station and local paper have been banned from Hull FC ..

 

At least they asked awkward questions on behalf of the locals ... Bravo ? to them 

over to you Mr Bays & Company ... 

Andy Bayes has been at Radio Lancashire for what must be going on for 15 years.  I think it is his 'natural level'.

I think he lacks the bottle to ask the cutting questions and makes life too easy for the interviewee.  IMO, and partly based upon what I've seen of him at various events, too pally, pally with the 'sporting celebrities' and simply fawns over them. 

[Mercer]

32 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

 

Im worried about Venkys position and continued support. By all accounts the pandemic has hit them hard.

You are not alone!!!

Things just don't feel right (relative to how Venky's have been since buying Rovers) at the moment.

Not scaremongering but in some 60 years of supporting the club, never, ever felt we are so vulnerable to insolvency and the abyss.  In business, there is always a 'tipping point'.

[Mattyblue]

7 minutes ago, Mercer said:

You are not alone!!!

Things just don't feel right (relative to how Venky's have been since buying Rovers) at the moment.

Not scaremongering but in some 60 years of supporting the club, never, ever felt we are so vulnerable to insolvency and the abyss.  In business, there is always a 'tipping point'.

To be fair Mercer you’ve been saying this since the day you joined.