Tony Mowbray Discussion

[martonrover]

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

This is such a stupid argument and far too many people use it on here. What does it even mean? Is it some dig because he’s an older bloke or summat? 
 

When you get up to work, get paid and x amount of quid gets shoved aside in pension contributions - what are you doing? You’re working until your pension pot suffices. What you’ve just tried to use as a bit of a dig at Mowbray is what every other working person is doing in life too. 
 

Mowbray has worked in football for over 40 years for fuck sake and there’s posters on here who do nothing but moan about how this is his “last pay day for the pension pot”. Get over yourselves. It’s another job for him, and if he did get sacked or does leave I have no doubt he’ll be back at another club in a matter of time, being paid and...shock horror....building his pension pot. 
 

What an evil sod 

A bit OTT. What I mean is that he's on a cushy number, compared to most other managers in Football. He is under very little pressure.

I certainly don't think he's "evil" and he's not been a failure in that he got us straight back out of League One.

However, all the evidence is that he's now reached his ceiling with us and it's highly unlikely he will take us any further, in spite of being well backed by the owners.

I don't begrudge Tony his pension, but it's time he was topping it up elsewhere if we have any ambition to move forwards.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Well, when Mowbray inherited the squad we had the likes of Wes Brown, Gordon Greer, Stokes et al kicking about. We were in the bottom three of the Championship, hardly a saleable asset in the entire Club and on our way down after a decade of waste and struggle.

We now have, on paper, a very competitive squad with 2 decent players for each position and are looking more and more like an attacking football team. Results have been Rovers fashion but Forest aside we have lost to 2 relegated clubs and give them a good game whilst we were at it too.

If you don't think the club has improved since the day he came then I am sorry but you are quite far removed from reality. 

We have undoubtedly improved since he came, that is obvious.

Of course it is key to factor in the time and resources that he has had and an improvement of the squad is undoubted. The likes of Greer, Brown, Lowe, Guthrie etc had contracts about to expire so he was lucky not to be lumbered with them. The question (which im not necessarily casting an opinion on) is based on the time and resources, is the team as progressed as it should or could be?

I would disagree that we have 2 decent players for every position. You look at the current squad now, the goalkeeping position is one of great uncertainty, we dont know how the new keepers will turn out. Defensively, Lenihan, Williams and Nyambe he inherited, Ayala hopefully will be a big improvement, Douglas temporarily, Bell a poor signing and player. In midfield, there are plenty of players like Johnson, Holtby and Rothwell all of whom have been very inconsistent in a Rovers shirt. Travis came through, Evans was already here, we will see on Trybull, a better set of players than he inherited? Of course. Massively convincing? Not sure. His main 2 brilliant successes are in attack in Amstrong and Dack. Aside from that, and maybe Elliott could be exciting temporarily. Not much substantial beyond that.

And at this stage in Mowbrays tenure, there is nothing to be taken from narrow losses and perception about becoming an attacking team. This far in the team and managers development, its all about results.

[Blue blood]

TM is clearly the best manager we have had under Venkys. The evidence strongly supports this. 

TM also is clearly not good enough to get us promoted. The evidence strongly supports this too. 

That both statements are true generates much of the debate on here.

As does the fact that leaving our inept owners and their pet agency to choose a new manager is riskier than skydiving without a parachute. Were Williams and co here TM would have been long gone for not being good enough. 

As it is we are stuck with the cluckers so TM is here until the cows come home (whatever that means, I think it means a long time which is apt.) So we will continue to drift along midtable, with moments of optimism and fear intermingled with a solid middle of the pack finish. 

[Gone to seed]

A couple of wins in a row, and hovering around the periphery of the play off places will change a lot of peoples' tunes on here very quickly - just the same as any back to back losses bring the moaners and no-nayers to the fore.

The only thing that will change our own peculiar introspective yo-yo perspective on TM and his team will be a sustained and consistent run of results (either way). If we can get something approaching the best from the squad, we should gravitate towards the upper end of the table. I live in hope that something will gel, and that we will be looking back on the dark days with a little more perspective by the time Christmas at Ewood is cancelled.

COYB!

 

[philipl]

19 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

TM is clearly the best manager we have had under Venkys. The evidence strongly supports this. 

TM also is clearly not good enough to get us promoted. The evidence strongly supports this too. 

That both statements are true generates much of the debate on here.

As does the fact that leaving our inept owners and their pet agency to choose a new manager is riskier than skydiving without a parachute. Were Williams and co here TM would have been long gone for not being good enough. 

As it is we are stuck with the cluckers so TM is here until the cows come home (whatever that means, I think it means a long time which is apt.) So we will continue to drift along midtable, with moments of optimism and fear intermingled with a solid middle of the pack finish. 

I am not counting any of our dropped points directly down to Mowbray and am hoping that zero stays throughout the season because if it does, play-offs are pretty certain at a minimum.

Mowbray misjudgements undoubtedly cost us a play-off slot last season and arguably might have done the season before.

[Dreams of 1995]

18 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

TM is clearly the best manager we have had under Venkys. The evidence strongly supports this. 

TM also is clearly not good enough to get us promoted. The evidence strongly supports this too. 

That both statements are true generates much of the debate on here.

As does the fact that leaving our inept owners and their pet agency to choose a new manager is riskier than skydiving without a parachute. Were Williams and co here TM would have been long gone for not being good enough. 

As it is we are stuck with the cluckers so TM is here until the cows come home (whatever that means, I think it means a long time which is apt.) So we will continue to drift along midtable, with moments of optimism and fear intermingled with a solid middle of the pack finish. 

Why does the evidence 'strongly' support this Blue blood? He's had previous promotions.

The fact of the matter is that we had a mid-table squad last season. Our squad this year is improved but chances are we won't be as good as the likes of Watford and Bournemouth because they have had years of Premier League money and all that comes with it. I certainly don't think the evidence suggest he's not good enough to get us promoted - he's had one under his belt with us already! We've only had 2 seasons in this league with him.

 

[Dreams of 1995]

24 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We have undoubtedly improved since he came, that is obvious.

Of course it is key to factor in the time and resources that he has had and an improvement of the squad is undoubted. The likes of Greer, Brown, Lowe, Guthrie etc had contracts about to expire so he was lucky not to be lumbered with them. The question (which im not necessarily casting an opinion on) is based on the time and resources, is the team as progressed as it should or could be?

I would disagree that we have 2 decent players for every position. You look at the current squad now, the goalkeeping position is one of great uncertainty, we dont know how the new keepers will turn out. Defensively, Lenihan, Williams and Nyambe he inherited, Ayala hopefully will be a big improvement, Douglas temporarily, Bell a poor signing and player. In midfield, there are plenty of players like Johnson, Holtby and Rothwell all of whom have been very inconsistent in a Rovers shirt. Travis came through, Evans was already here, we will see on Trybull, a better set of players than he inherited? Of course. Massively convincing? Not sure. His main 2 brilliant successes are in attack in Amstrong and Dack. Aside from that, and maybe Elliott could be exciting temporarily. Not much substantial beyond that.

And at this stage in Mowbrays tenure, there is nothing to be taken from narrow losses and perception about becoming an attacking team. This far in the team and managers development, its all about results.

You could have left all of the above with a simple sentence.

You might disagree, that's fine, but the question at hand is whether or not our club is in a better position now than when he came.

You contradict yourself in every effort to be contrarian. "A better set of players than he inherited? Of course. Massively convincing? Not sure". Well, the term 'of course' would indicate you are sure. Our starting line up has Champions League experience, Premier League experience and goals in attack. 

Unsure what the last sentence even means. Our team is one of the youngest in the league with academy prospects throughout. We have had a few missing over the last couple of games and it has shown, so this idea that there's nothing be taken from narrow losses to two recently relegated Premier League clubs is absurd in my eyes. One of them featured a £30m club record signing...

[Blue blood]

7 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Why does the evidence 'strongly' support this Blue blood? He's had previous promotions.

The fact of the matter is that we had a mid-table squad last season. Our squad this year is improved but chances are we won't be as good as the likes of Watford and Bournemouth because they have had years of Premier League money and all that comes with it. I certainly don't think the evidence suggest he's not good enough to get us promoted - he's had one under his belt with us already! We've only had 2 seasons in this league with him.

 

Fair question, my answer is as follows. 

Firstly, referring to his past history, yes he has had previous promotions, but only two of them. One of them with us, he had quite favourable circumstances for doing so (our budget and player quality were markedly higher then most other teams). That's not to say he doesn't deserve credit for it - he certainly does - but it does give a bit more perspective. Certainly it's not a similar situation getting promoted from this division with our squad, which as you say has been mid table, compared when we were strong favourites. Certainly don't want to do him a disservice and say it isn't to his credit, but it's not overwhelming evidence that he will do it again. In fact he only has 1 promotion from this division. 

In fact his record isn't amazing. He bombed at Celtic - which is hard to do - and Coventry. He didn't get Boro promoted or that near to it either. Looking at his history elsewhere I don't think one long-ago promotion paints a compelling picture that he will do it again. Heck, even Coyle has a promotion and 2 good years with Burnley, and Ince had a League 1 promotion, so his record I don't think indicates a likelihood of success. In fact quite the reverse, of staying mid table, not over achieving at all. 

Then there's his time at Rovers. The only thing consistent in his time here has been inconsistency. We put on great runs but we also put on bad runs That is a fact and suggests he doesn't have the consistency to get us promoted. That record seems to extend into this season - won two, drawn one, lost three. That's absolutely average. For the last two years his runs have shown he will have mixed form. 

Then there's the bottling it repeatedly. Last season for example, post lockdown we were poised to make playoffs. We then didn't capitalise on it, after a promising win vs Bristol (?) and we thought the chance was gone. The teams above us then fluffed it for a few games, and we again didn't capitalise on it. Same with pre-Christmas coming up to the Wigan game. Same with this season. We were in the playoffs (albeit after 3 games!) after a really encouraging start and then bottle it by getting 1 point from Cardiff and Forrest. Bare in mind Forest for all their new manager hadn't got a point, and the Cardiff game finished with them having 10 men. The games were there for the taking. There is very little mental strength in this team to take advantage of these situations. Also if you've spent the vast majority of the last 2 seasons outside the playoffs, it's pretty suggestive that it needs a hell of an improvement to hold down a play off place. 

There's other things as well. He's loyal to players for too long, which has been a repeated theme. As has the baffling players out of position. We continue to have Gally on the wing that just doesn't work. Again basics like this suggest that we will never get promoted because we are handicapping ourselves. We also struggle to break down weaker teams. That's been a challenge in all 3 full seasons of TM, even in our league 1 campaign. I had hoped we had broken this issue with our Wycombe and Derby wins, but 10 man Cardiff suggests this issue still hasn't gone away. 

I don't want to have an anti-TM rant. He's done a lot of good too. The squad is better and we are now a solid mid-table side, as oppose to the relegation certs he took over. I'm also grateful he got us promoted too. However, to me, the evidence from both during his time at Ewood and his previous career suggests he is not the man to get us promoted. 

 

 

  

 

  

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

With the best will in the world he's a 6 out of 10 manager, and that's on a good day. To get promoted out of this League you need an 8 of 10 manager at the least. We'll huff and puff for another season, win some - lose some, drift along flattering to deceive. Players will come and go. The same laid back attitude will permeate all sections of the club structure.

Expecting to change the direction of travel without changing the guy who is steering the ship doesn't work in my experience.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Dreams of 1995]

3 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Fair question, my answer is as follows. 

Firstly, referring to his past history, yes he has had previous promotions, but only two of them. One of them with us, he had quite favourable circumstances for doing so (our budget and player quality were markedly higher then most other teams). That's not to say he doesn't deserve credit for it - he certainly does - but it does give a bit more perspective. Certainly it's not a similar situation getting promoted from this division with our squad, which as you say has been mid table, compared when we were strong favourites. Certainly don't want to do him a disservice and say it isn't to his credit, but it's not overwhelming evidence that he will do it again. In fact he only has 1 promotion from this division. 

In fact his record isn't amazing. He bombed at Celtic - which is hard to do - and Coventry. He didn't get Boro promoted or that near to it either. Looking at his history elsewhere I don't think one long-ago promotion paints a compelling picture that he will do it again. Heck, even Coyle has a promotion and 2 good years with Burnley, and Ince had a League 1 promotion, so his record I don't think indicates a likelihood of success. In fact quite the reverse, of staying mid table, not over achieving at all. 

Then there's his time at Rovers. The only thing consistent in his time here has been inconsistency. We put on great runs but we also put on bad runs That is a fact and suggests he doesn't have the consistency to get us promoted. That record seems to extend into this season - won two, drawn one, lost three. That's absolutely average. For the last two years his runs have shown he will have mixed form. 

Then there's the bottling it repeatedly. Last season for example, post lockdown we were poised to make playoffs. We then didn't capitalise on it, after a promising win vs Bristol (?) and we thought the chance was gone. The teams above us then fluffed it for a few games, and we again didn't capitalise on it. Same with pre-Christmas coming up to the Wigan game. Same with this season. We were in the playoffs (albeit after 3 games!) after a really encouraging start and then bottle it by getting 1 point from Cardiff and Forrest. Bare in mind Forest for all their new manager hadn't got a point, and the Cardiff game finished with them having 10 men. The games were there for the taking. There is very little mental strength in this team to take advantage of these situations. Also if you've spent the vast majority of the last 2 seasons outside the playoffs, it's pretty suggestive that it needs a hell of an improvement to hold down a play off place. 

There's other things as well. He's loyal to players for too long, which has been a repeated theme. As has the baffling players out of position. We continue to have Gally on the wing that just doesn't work. Again basics like this suggest that we will never get promoted because we are handicapping ourselves. We also struggle to break down weaker teams. That's been a challenge in all 3 full seasons of TM, even in our league 1 campaign. I had hoped we had broken this issue with our Wycombe and Derby wins, but 10 man Cardiff suggests this issue still hasn't gone away. 

I don't want to have an anti-TM rant. He's done a lot of good too. The squad is better and we are now a solid mid-table side, as oppose to the relegation certs he took over. I'm also grateful he got us promoted too. However, to me, the evidence from both during his time at Ewood and his previous career suggests he is not the man to get us promoted. 

Some good points, well made Blue blood.

I can't say I agree with you though. I think we have been consistent in terms of 'our level'. I never expected our squad to put on a 30+ wins a season. If you sat down with a paper showing nowt but the results you'd be right, but we should at least consider the squad he's had. He looks to be addressing the problems we have moaned at on here for time: we have had 2 new left backs in 2 years (albeit loans), we've got an entirely new goalkeeping dept, we have a winger and we have a new centre half. This summer has had some fantastic business given the circumstances and a lot of that is down to the work Mowbray puts in. The new scouting department bringing in Kaminski, which hopefully is an inspired signing.

I understand your points, and I am far less frustrated at criticism as above than I am when I read the whole "pay-day" and pension pot accusations he has thrown at him. Mowbray for all of his faults isn't a chancer. It is, and always will be, refreshing to have a real football bloke in charge as opposed to the hatchet men we have had in the past.

I honestly hope I can quote you at the end of this season and say "I told you so". I think we have a chance this year, at least with the squad at hand. I can't agree all the evidence stacks against Mowbray and I look forward to him proving you wrong ?

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You could have left all of the above with a simple sentence.

You might disagree, that's fine, but the question at hand is whether or not our club is in a better position now than when he came.

You contradict yourself in every effort to be contrarian. "A better set of players than he inherited? Of course. Massively convincing? Not sure". Well, the term 'of course' would indicate you are sure. Our starting line up has Champions League experience, Premier League experience and goals in attack. 

Unsure what the last sentence even means. Our team is one of the youngest in the league with academy prospects throughout. We have had a few missing over the last couple of games and it has shown, so this idea that there's nothing be taken from narrow losses to two recently relegated Premier League clubs is absurd in my eyes. One of them featured a £30m club record signing...

My post was not a critical one, I was stating that we have definitely progressed under Mowbray and indeed if he left today he would deserve to be remembered fondly which he would by me and the vast majority, but I was also mulling over whether the improvement is enough based on the time Mowbray has had, plus the resources. I didnt conclude either way.

I am not in the business of embracing narrow losses in which we "play well" this season. We are not at a stage in which we are looking for green shoots of promise ahead of a rebuild, or good performances, we are much further down the line. We are a self declared promotion contender. You mention the young team, but there is plenty of experience amidst our side. Mowbray firstly failed the tough task of keeping us up but then did well to get us back up first time. We have stabilised in the league, the perhaps ambitious target last season was the play offs and we fell well short and never broke into the top 6. This season, that is a much more realistic aim.

Also, yes Bournemouth and Watford came down but they are not Premier League giants a class apart in this league. Both have new managers, both have squads that will be mentally recovering from the blow of relegation, and both have lost a clutch of players, Bournemouth lost Wilson, Ake, Fraser, Ramsdale and had Brooks only available as a sub and King unsettled and wanting to leave, and Watford have lost Doucoure, Dawson, Deulefou, Pereyra, Holebas, Welbeck and had Capoue only on the bench and Gray and Deeney still not back again after transfer speculation. I am not doubting that both games were tough, I am not saying that I expected/demanded to go to either and win, I know that they were tough games. But if say you are a relegation battler and you lose to either, theres more scope to think, right it was always going to be tough, at least we competed. As a side with genuine promotion aspirations, we can justifiably feel really frustrated that we didnt pick up a point in either game, or indeed in any game. It is all about results now, hence why the start to the season has been a fairly poor one. 

[Blue blood]

42 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Some good points, well made Blue blood.

I can't say I agree with you though. I think we have been consistent in terms of 'our level'. I never expected our squad to put on a 30+ wins a season. If you sat down with a paper showing nowt but the results you'd be right, but we should at least consider the squad he's had. He looks to be addressing the problems we have moaned at on here for time: we have had 2 new left backs in 2 years (albeit loans), we've got an entirely new goalkeeping dept, we have a winger and we have a new centre half. This summer has had some fantastic business given the circumstances and a lot of that is down to the work Mowbray puts in. The new scouting department bringing in Kaminski, which hopefully is an inspired signing.

I understand your points, and I am far less frustrated at criticism as above than I am when I read the whole "pay-day" and pension pot accusations he has thrown at him. Mowbray for all of his faults isn't a chancer. It is, and always will be, refreshing to have a real football bloke in charge as opposed to the hatchet men we have had in the past.

I honestly hope I can quote you at the end of this season and say "I told you so". I think we have a chance this year, at least with the squad at hand. I can't agree all the evidence stacks against Mowbray and I look forward to him proving you wrong ?

Thing is Dreams I would LOVE for you to be proved right, I really would. 

Honestly I think it's hard to justify his time elsewhere - or the last two years here - as reasons why he will get us promoted. It all hinges on this year's better squad. Well perhaps not all, but a lot. How will this squad do. Very early days admittedly but the first signs are pretty average. Agree it will take a few games to see this. 

Some of the credit you give him on the squad I feel is overkind given he made some of those problems. The left back situation and keeper situation were both of his own making! Especially the keeper one. (And in doing so cost us horribly last season.) The squad is miles better than the one that he inherited, albeit Coyle had no money to spend. Whilst raking back over past mistakes be they errors in signing (our strikers) or omission (the defence) it does suggest that whilst we seem to have had a good window, i perhaps don't rate TM as highly as you do when it comes to transfers. Certainly for me past evidence makes me more cautious when considering this window, which I think looks a good one, given the patchiness of his previous recruitment. On the scouting network the keepers are a good start but I was disappointed they didn't bring in any outfield players. As it is we seem to have done ok without it but I wouldn't say it's a rousing success. 

Perhaps there's an element of it being half full or half empty depending on your view. But to me in part that's the point. It's clearly half not mostly full. TM is decent no doubt about it but I have real reservations that he's actually good. 

 

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Blue blood said:

TM is clearly the best manager we have had under Venkys. The evidence strongly supports this. 

TM also is clearly not good enough to get us promoted. The evidence strongly supports this too. 

That both statements are true generates much of the debate on here.

As does the fact that leaving our inept owners and their pet agency to choose a new manager is riskier than skydiving without a parachute. Were Williams and co here TM would have been long gone for not being good enough. 

As it is we are stuck with the cluckers so TM is here until the cows come home (whatever that means, I think it means a long time which is apt.) So we will continue to drift along midtable, with moments of optimism and fear intermingled with a solid middle of the pack finish. 

 TM is also the best backed gaffer under Venky's when all things are taken into account. So whilst we don't have a top of the table budget it'll be one of the better ones in that middle pack over the last few seasons.

Time to push on.

[briansol]

10 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Same resources? I do not remember them buying players for 5 and 7 million?

Well in 18/19 they bought Joe Garner for 1,25m + McManaman, Kipre, Windass, Lee Evans, Daniel Fox + 5 or 6 free transfers

They finished 18, we finished 15.

in 19/20 they bought highly rated Jamal Lowe, Kieffer Moore, Joe Williams and Tom Pearce. + 2 free transfers.

They finished 23 (would've been 13 if not points deducted), we finished 11.

Paul Cook brought in 18 players in his 2 championship seasons.

I think the transfer sums might not be that different, the wage budget is certainly similar. They had a large decifit like us, the difference being their owners didn't want the bill.

[m1st]

9 hours ago, 47er said:

God, I’d go down there and carry him to Elwood myself!

A manager who would definitely get us promoted and keep us there and break Burnley hearts as well?

What Rovers fan could not get sweaty over that?

If that were to happen, I'd like a wee bit of advance notice, please.

I'd want to be the one person to be able to break the news to my Burnleh-supporting old schoolmate in New Zealand!!?

[chaddyrovers]

12 hours ago, martonrover said:

Mowbray is the right manager to keep us flattering to deceive and bumbling around mid-table until he decides his pension pot will suffice.

his pension pot will suffice? what a bizarre comment to make. 

You ever spoken to the manager and spent time listening to our manager in none match day setting. cos it a great listening to his experience and different situations he has been part of,

[rigger]

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

his pension pot will suffice? what a bizarre comment to make. 

You ever spoken to the manager and spent time listening to our manager in none match day setting. cos it a great listening to his experience and different situations he has been part of,

I am more worried about the match day settings. His experience in different situations come to naught judging by his team selections.

[Atko's Engine]

I think we all know this is the defining season for Mowbray.

If he gets top 6, whether or not we get promoted, he will definitely be kept on unless he chooses to leave, and deservedly so.

If we miss out on the top 6, then I think it will be time to try something different, especially if here is little or no improvement on last season's performance.

So far this season, there are strong signs of progress in terms of style of play, but also still some of the same weaknesses. The key here is that we have strong players yet to come into the fold, who should improve our options & bring with them a winning mentality.

We've had 6 league games, which have seen 4 strong performances overall, but only brought 2 wins. Thankfully 2 if those were away at probably the strongest teams in the division.  I'm pretty sure we've enough about us to win those types of games against weaker opposition.

The Cardiff & Forest games were disappointing, no doubt.  But I can see Douglas, Trybull & Harvey (and in a month or so, Dack) being the difference in those games and thus helping unlock 2 banks of 4.

There's cause to be hopeful I think. Nothing is won or lost after 6 games in any season, least of a this one.

[chaddyrovers]

 

[DeeCee]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Lot of waffle in there.

[danger19_80]

6th place lost 12 games last season and we've already lost three. With the pressure he's piling on himself, feels like shit or bust for TM this season.

[Oldgregg86]

I find it very strange that Tony has one philosophy of playing and the coach he chose and brought to the club has another idea . Surly you employ people from coaches to players to play and coach the way you want the team to play and coach. According to Danny graham they arnt on the same page. This can’t help when preparing for games

[chaddyrovers]

38 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

I find it very strange that Tony has one philosophy of playing and the coach he chose and brought to the club has another idea . Surly you employ people from coaches to players to play and coach the way you want the team to play and coach. According to Danny graham they arnt on the same page. This can’t help when preparing for games

Mowbray and Venus have been friends for years from their playing days. Mowbray trust Venus and he has never worked without him. Even when Mowbray joined the club, he didnt have Venus with him but quickly bought him in when he could. Similar to Hughes who has never work without Bowen. 

[Sparks Rover]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray and Venus have been friends for years 

Jobs for the boys.  If DG is slagging them off it must be twice as bad and an issue. I'd rather Tony got a proper coach in and not one of his pals 

Then again nepotism and old boys club attitude is still rife throughout football.  Look at all the players we have who share agents with Mowbray...

[AllRoverAsia]

3 hours ago, DeeCee said:

Lot of waffle in there.

For a manager who not too long ago dismissed stats, preferring 'what I see with my own eyes on the grass' or similar he now pushes stats to the fore at every opportunity.

Never mind those who like pretty tappy tappy are content and facilitate the charade.