Tony Mowbray Discussion

[RV Blue]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

What's the alternative then Gav? 

Stick with him indefinitely regardless of results because he's allegedly "a nice guy"?

That's probably subjective anyway. I don't suppose certain players like Mulgrew, Nyambe, Davenport and Chapman would automatically agree.

I don’t think a ‘nice guy’ would blame his inability to set up a defence on a young keeper either.

[JHRover]

Personally I'd have sacked Mowbray some time ago. I can understand a reluctance elsewhere to replace him but my only interest is us getting promoted as soon as possible, and if that means being 'unattractive' or unpopular then so be it. Nice guys get nowhere.

I'd have pulled the trigger quite a while ago once i had identified and lined up his replacement, but again can understand the argument for keeping him through last season.

I'd have replaced him at the end of last season when there were a raft of unemployed yet quality managers ready to be getting back to work. Hughton, Warnock, Karanka, McCarthy - just a few obvious obtainable names that roll off the tongue and require very little research or reading up on, You know who they are and what they do and as time has shown with Forest, Middlesbrough and Birmingham all were willing to manage under constraints in the 2nd division, despite baseless suggestions from some that they were all unaffordable or unwilling to work at this level any more. 

To be totally honest I am less eager to make a change right now than I was a couple of months ago. Back in the summer we could have got shut of Mowbray and appointed one of the above, giving them time to bed in and implement their methods and a summer window (and admittedly decent scope in the budget) to address things.

Since then we've allowed another window of opportunity to pass by. Another pre-season gone, another sloppy poor start to a season meaning we are aleady playing catch up, another summer transfer window and precious cash entrusted to Mowbray, and meanwhile the decent managers above are now in work at rivals and are out of our reach. Now even if we did get shut of Mowbray we would have less obvious decent options available to us. Not because nobody decent would come but because they've all been snapped up by rivals. We'd have to take a bigger gamble or really do our homework and unearth less well known quality, neither of which I think the morons running the club are capable of. 

3-4 months ago I'd have been on the phone to McCarthy, Hughton or Warnock and giving them what they needed to get here and down to work. Now I'm short on suggestions that would genuinely make me believe. It would probably have to be a foreign option in the hope they could quickly transition.

None of this is going to happen any time soon of course, but I genuinely believe that unless Mowbray quickly changes his approach we are going to become embroiled in a prolonged spell of looking over our shoulders at the bottom 3 and relegation. We should have enough to avoid that fate but sooner or later the question needs to be asked whether a bottom half or bottom third finish is remotely acceptable and what the solution is to that. 

For 150 years across the world the solution has been to change coaching staff. Here it will be to once again overhaul the squad at great expense and then rinse and repeat.

[RevidgeBlue]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Personally I'd have sacked Mowbray some time ago. I can understand a reluctance elsewhere to replace him but my only interest is us getting promoted as soon as possible, and if that means being 'unattractive' or unpopular then so be it. Nice guys get nowhere.

I'd have pulled the trigger quite a while ago once i had identified and lined up his replacement, but again can understand the argument for keeping him through last season.

I'd have replaced him at the end of last season when there were a raft of unemployed yet quality managers ready to be getting back to work. Hughton, Warnock, Karanka, McCarthy - just a few obvious obtainable names that roll off the tongue and require very little research or reading up on, You know who they are and what they do and as time has shown with Forest, Middlesbrough and Birmingham all were willing to manage under constraints in the 2nd division, despite baseless suggestions from some that they were all unaffordable or unwilling to work at this level any more. 

To be totally honest I am less eager to make a change right now than I was a couple of months ago. Back in the summer we could have got shut of Mowbray and appointed one of the above, giving them time to bed in and implement their methods and a summer window (and admittedly decent scope in the budget) to address things.

Since then we've allowed another window of opportunity to pass by. Another pre-season gone, another sloppy poor start to a season meaning we are aleady playing catch up, another summer transfer window and precious cash entrusted to Mowbray, and meanwhile the decent managers above are now in work at rivals and are out of our reach. Now even if we did get shut of Mowbray we would have less obvious decent options available to us. Not because nobody decent would come but because they've all been snapped up by rivals. We'd have to take a bigger gamble or really do our homework and unearth less well known quality, neither of which I think the morons running the club are capable of. 

3-4 months ago I'd have been on the phone to McCarthy, Hughton or Warnock and giving them what they needed to get here and down to work. Now I'm short on suggestions that would genuinely make me believe. It would probably have to be a foreign option in the hope they could quickly transition.

None of this is going to happen any time soon of course, but I genuinely believe that unless Mowbray quickly changes his approach we are going to become embroiled in a prolonged spell of looking over our shoulders at the bottom 3 and relegation. We should have enough to avoid that fate but sooner or later the question needs to be asked whether a bottom half or bottom third finish is remotely acceptable and what the solution is to that. 

For 150 years across the world the solution has been to change coaching staff. Here it will be to once again overhaul the squad at great expense and then rinse and repeat.

Should have gone Feb 19 for me, I'm not sure the job market is quite as bleak as you paint, Mccarthy is still available, Pearson and Pulis are also out of work and even though Hughes' stock has dropped somewhat I'm not sure why anyone would advocate sticking with Mowbray over rolling the dice on him.

That's even before the countless hidden gems there must be out there like the bloke Reading unearthed.

[47er]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Should have gone Feb 19 for me, I'm not sure the job market is quite as bleak as you paint, Mccarthy is still available, Pearson and Pulis are also out of work and even though Hughes' stock has dropped somewhat I'm not sure why anyone would advocate sticking with Mowbray over rolling the dice on him.

That's even before the countless hidden gems there must be out there like the bloke Reading unearthed.

Should have got Hughton---he was available.

[JHRover]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Should have gone Feb 19 for me, I'm not sure the job market is quite as bleak as you paint, Mccarthy is still available, Pearson and Pulis are also out of work and even though Hughes' stock has dropped somewhat I'm not sure why anyone would advocate sticking with Mowbray over rolling the dice on him.

That's even before the countless hidden gems there must be out there like the bloke Reading unearthed.

Yeah, i just think the names I suggested were the obvious sensible options that would have given us a real chance this season. The others I'm not so sure. Pulis would be acceptable as a means to escape relegation and then maybe see what he can do but I worry that his ethos is so far away from Mowbray's that it would take a long time and a lot of work to whip this lot into the fit and organised structure Pulis would demand.

I also think that he and Pearson would be unwilling to put up with the rubbish from India.

McCarthy is apparently joining APOEL Nicosia - surprise move but a big opportunity missed for clubs at our level.

The hidden gems like Reading and Barnsley have unearthed really require a lot of homework and planning. We simply don't have that here. Waggott is too busy deciding what hours to open the club shop for and how to milk another £10 or £20 out of supporters

The search for our last 3 managers appears to have been done by someone going on an internet search engine and typing in "unemployed and won promotion to the Premier League within the last decade" then picking one. 

I suppose it is better than just handing it to the bibs and cones man or someone's mate.

[Oldgregg86]

Pearson would get the job done

mccarthy would be a massive upgrade as would hughes

if the owners were serious about promotion all of these would have already had a phone call before the game on Tuesday 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Oldgregg86

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

The hidden gems like Reading and Barnsley have unearthed really require a lot of homework and planning. We simply don't have that here. Waggott is too busy deciding what hours to open the club shop for and how to milk another £10 or £20 out of supporters

Do you really think so, there's a couple of really good European commentators on Talksport  Mark Langdon and Andy Brassell (sp) who could probably point you in the direction of the best up and coming European talent in 10 mins, ditto Tim Vickery in South America. Even if it wasn't those particular guys there must be reputable people about in the game who could point you in the right direction. I also reckon you or I could put a decent shortlist together in a couple of days from home and abroad if we had a few days spare to research it on the Internet, but it's not our job. 

[davulsukur]

12 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Should have gone Feb 19 for me, I'm not sure the job market is quite as bleak as you paint, Mccarthy is still available, Pearson and Pulis are also out of work and even though Hughes' stock has dropped somewhat I'm not sure why anyone would advocate sticking with Mowbray over rolling the dice on him.

That's even before the countless hidden gems there must be out there like the bloke Reading unearthed.

You can scratch McCarty off the list.

'McCarthy takes shock role at Cypriot side APOEL'

http://www.skysports.com/share/12121707

 

[RevidgeBlue]

4 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

You can scratch McCarty off the list.

'McCarthy takes shock role at Cypriot side APOEL'

http://www.skysports.com/share/12121707

 

Yes, that was in the offing.

Must not have had many decent offers in this Country.

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Yes, that was in the offing.

Must not have had many decent offers in this Country.

McCarthy falls into a category of old school manager with proven track record who doesnt entertain the idea of passing it along the backline, thus his popularity has waned with teams more interested in winning the possession battle than the match it seems.

[arbitro]

53 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

McCarthy falls into a category of old school manager with proven track record who doesnt entertain the idea of passing it along the backline, thus his popularity has waned with teams more interested in winning the possession battle than the match it seems.

Exactly this. The football snobs who think risky passes in an around your own penalty area is great consider managers of his ilk dinosaurs. 

The statistic driven generation.

[Gone to seed]

Hughes in a heartbeat for me. We have the nucleus of a good squad here. Hughes sides are always fit, I don't remember them being as injury prone as our lot have been these past 8 years or so. He knows how to get a tune out of players with potential.

Yup. Get on the blower to Sparky Marky, and let's get on with the business of getting up the league.

[davulsukur]

I've got a lot of time for Sparky after his time here but are now going back 16 years (Christ) to when he first joined us.

I'd still have him back but with a slight fear that he might tarnish his rep he has with Rovers should he fail.

 

[JHRover]

I'm not sure on Hughes. First off I don't see him as the type desperate to return to management to the extent he'd embrace a Championship job with aggravation and restrictions to it. I think he'd prefer to enjoy life and only take a job if it ticks every box e.g. in the Championship but with a big budget and a proper ownership and management structure. I don't think his time at Rovers stirs up sentimentality that it would lure him back here unless we had a proper setup and offered him big bucks to come and do it exactly how he wanted. Even then I don't think he'd fancy a Championship job after 15 years in the Premier League.

If he was willing to manage at this level i'd want him to reunite with his old team Bowen and Neidszwicki. Bowen still working at Reading I think.

I'm really not sure any more. Missed a trick with McCarthy off to Cyprus and Hughton in at struggling Forest. I'm sure both would have sniffed a good opportunity here with a promising and talented squad that needs shoring up and organising.

 

 

[RoversClitheroe]

Anyone who counters Mowbray out with "who would you replace him with".

How small minded must you be. 

Look at clubs that hire unknowns with some success abroad - Graham Potter.

Reading hiring some unknown with a good rep abroad, that team is nowhere near better than ours. We just have a shit manager. 

[Sparks Rover]

22 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Anyone who counters Mowbray out with "who would you replace him with".

How small minded must you be. 

Look at clubs that hire unknowns with some success abroad - Graham Potter.

Reading hiring some unknown with a good rep abroad, that team is nowhere near better than ours. We just have a shit manager. 

Not to mention Hassenhuttl....there's loads of good managers.  We are stuck with this dick though 

[Mashed Potatoes]

22 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Anyone who counters Mowbray out with "who would you replace him with".

How small minded must you be. 

Look at clubs that hire unknowns with some success abroad - Graham Potter.

Reading hiring some unknown with a good rep abroad, that team is nowhere near better than ours. We just have a shit manager. 

I think if you bother to look back on past posts the riposte to "Mowbray Out" is to point out that it is Venkys making the appointment - not this board - and their record does not inspire confidence that they will appoint a superior manager - but more likely an inferior one.

[Leonard Venkhater]

10 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I think if you bother to look back on past posts the riposte to "Mowbray Out" is to point out that it is Venkys making the appointment - not this board - and their record does not inspire confidence that they will appoint a superior manager - but more likely an inferior one.

Essay question 25 marks

“Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.” Samuel Beckett

Review the CV's and contributions to Blackburn Rovers of the following:

Steve Kean, Eric Black, Michael Appleton, Henning Berg, Gary Bowyer, Paul Lambert Owen Coyle and Tony Mowbray.

Estimate the success/failure of the club's manager recruitment strategy since 2011.

What evidence can you present that the same recruiters will secure a successful manager in the future?

[Mattyblue]

Because we now have ‘optimum owners’?

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Anyone who counters Mowbray out with "who would you replace him with".

How small minded must you be. 

Look at clubs that hire unknowns with some success abroad - Graham Potter.

Reading hiring some unknown with a good rep abroad, that team is nowhere near better than ours. We just have a shit manager. 

It's concerning because it's Venkys and HSH and friends in charge but to say there is nobody or we/they couldn't get anybody is outright nonsense.

The main issue now though is with all his mates around him he has the inside of the club pretty watertight.  That will take a lot of replacing or the right person who'll they'll back to worth with. 

That's why clubs need a structure that can absorb change and we've never had it under this lot but we had it before.

Edited November 2, 2020 by tomphil

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

It's concerning because it's Venkys and HSH and friends in charge but to say there is nobody or we/they couldn't get anybody is outright nonsense.

The main issue now though is with all his mates around him he has the inside of the club pretty watertight.  That will take a lot of replacing or the right person who'll they'll back to worth with. 

That's why clubs need a structure that can absorb change and we've never had it under this lot but we had it before.

It's almost as if you think Rovers will never progress with these owners lol

[tomphil]

4 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

It's almost as if you think Rovers will never progress with these owners lol

I don't think, i know ?

The only chance they'll ever have is to up the ante and recruit quality directors and manager with a promotion remit.

Their money alone won't work surely they've twigged that by now, neither will just praying and hoping.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

I'm in a town called apathy and Tony is the mayor 

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Anyone who counters Mowbray out with "who would you replace him with".

How small minded must you be. 

Look at clubs that hire unknowns with some success abroad - Graham Potter.

Reading hiring some unknown with a good rep abroad, that team is nowhere near better than ours. We just have a shit manager. 

The problem with having that mentality is that Mowbray wont be here for ever and it is essentially accepting that we arent progressing too.

I certainly agree with your statement that is is small time to have such a stance although I dont think Potter is the best example, he did an unremarkable job at Swansea (which Cooper did better than) and he hasnt improved Brighton on Hughtons time there. Fools people thinking they play out from the back.

As you say Reading have managed to think outside the box even though I would not necessarily agree that their side is "nowhere near better than ours." They have some very good players throughout their team, Rafael Cabral is a keeper as good as most in the league, Moore and Morrison are very accomplished CBs at this level, their full backs are young and talented, Ejaria and when fit Swift are very talented, Olise is a real wonderkid and Meite heads a very decent stable of attackers. Im not convinced that our squad is better.

[Leonard Venkhater]

28 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

I'm in a town called apathy and Tony is the mayor 

Though everythin' is broken, there are happy clappers there