Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Ewood Ace]

3 hours ago, JBiz said:

2) Ayala has been out too much - but you failed to mention the fact two other centrebacks have also been injured, compounding the issue, regardless of if we’d signed DA.

It can hardly have come as a shock to anyone that Williams has spent most the season in the treatment room.

3 hours ago, JBiz said:

3) Bell was 250k - and we had two homegrown first team ready defensive players and another on the fringe(scotty). We had no permanent senior keeper last season either - an area that needed investment. Goalposts being moved to complain about this - remember last years goalkeeping department?

It needed investment but it didn't need cash spent on 3 players, even Tony can only get one on the pitch at a time. And it particularly didn't need 350K spent on and a 4 year deal given to Tony mates son. Just think about that he spent more on a reserve goal keeper than he has spent on the entire defence in 4 years. Not to mention the fact that Pears is a very poor goalkeeper.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Ewood Ace

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, Ben Frost said:

It's where we are in the league in 104 days time that really matters

What makes you think it will be any different than Mowbray's previous 132 games in the Championship with us?

[Mercer]

3 hours ago, Roversider said:

Let's roll back time to pre-season, would anyone be calling for Mowbray to go if we said we would be 6 points off the play-offs and be the top scorers in the Championship?  A lot of the antipathy relates to the disappointment following the outstanding start.

 

IMO, we have no identity as a footballing team - there is no structure, no certainty of formation, no plan B (difficult to believe there is even a plan A) and precious little hope with Mowbray in charge.

I think it's all reactive management by Mowbray, often making it up as he goes along.

A bit of context to what you describe as "the outstanding start".  We recorded big wins against Wycombe (in only their second match in this league and they currently prop up the league and it will be amazing if they move up even one place), the hapless Derby (who have sacked their manager and remain relegation fodder) and against 10 men Coventry and 10 men Preston.

As a supporter, I can't see progress, I can't see a pattern of play developing, we are unconvincing- all I hear, IMO, are Mowbray soundbites such as "evolution", "slow build" thrown in with copious amounts of bullsh1t about challenging the top six.

FFS, I simply don't think it's good enough.  I think Waggott, Mowbray, Venus etc are all on 'Easy Street' and need bombing out.  We need a CEO and manager with one objective - promotion in the quickest possible time.

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Mercer

[Ewood Ace]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

I wonder if Accy fans are calling for the managers head sitting a healthy 10th in league one?

We're 9th and ours are.......

You're point is nonsense with respect Matty, the distinction between Norwich who earned over £100m last season and Blackburn Rovers, is nothing like comparing Donny and Accy.

 

Are you really comparing Accrington Stanley a club who at the turn of the century were in the 7th tier and are now 10th in the 3rd tier of English football with Blackburn Rovers who a decade ago were a mid table Premiership club and are now stuck going nowhere in mid table of the 2nd tier. Talk about putting our great club down. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Ewood Ace

[Gav]

9 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Are you really comparing Accrington Stanley a club who at the turn of the century were in the 7th tier and are now 10th in the 3rd tier of English football with Blackburn Rovers who a decade ago were a mid table Premiership club and are now stuck going nowhere in mid table of the 2nd tier. Talk about putting our great club down. 

Nope @Mattyblue is.

[Ewood Ace]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Neither Sunderland or Accy will make it to the Premiership anytime soon, they'll not make it to the Championship either...

For every club that our performs the competion and gets promoted I'll give 60 that don't.

Its nonsense to compare the league one competition to Championship/Premiership and I've given you over £100m reasons why.

Again you seem to be struggling to understand peoples arguments when it comes to finance. When dealing with the difference in percentages Accrington will be further adrift from clubs like Sunderland, Ipswich and Portsmouth than we are the likes of Norwich.

[Mattyblue]

Relatively speaking, of course...

[RevidgeBlue]

28 minutes ago, Mercer said:

As a supporter, I can't see progress, I can't see a pattern of play developing, we are unconvincing- all I hear, IMO, are Mowbray soundbites such as "evolution", "slow build" thrown in with copious amounts of bullsh1t about challenging the top six.

FFS, I simply don't think it's good enough.  I think Waggott, Mowbray, Venus etc are all on 'Easy Street' and need bombing out.  We need a CEO and manager with one objective - promotion in the quickest possible time.

 

Yep, that's it in a nutshell.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, JBiz said:

1. Reserve keepers are a strange scenario - we signed 2 backups to TK last summer after being in a situation where Fisher was our only “senior” choice. I think it’s been a successful refit - the other lad (greek?) has no experience of English second flight football so a relatively cheap long term second choice makes a lot of sense. 

Fair enough that you’ve been given info on him, but I don’t see Pears as “favour for a mate” or a lazy signing, just a small cog in our first team. The main job of finding a proper keeper has been nailed by our restructured scouting network - something Tony was very vocal about developing!

2. Wharton injury prone? Also I don’t think being “injury prone” is an exact science either - but I would suggest a common decision in football to compliment “young” defenders is a lad who’s been round the block a few times. 
 

As it happens - so far, the jury probably suggests DA has been a waste of money - but I’ll suggest again that this is an easy criticism in hindsight. I’m not Au Fait with DAs history but I do remember a Boro fan saying he will have a “strain” in time for a week at home at Christmas....! An apt “quip” maybe?

3. As I mentioned - Greek lad had no real elite senior experience as far as I was aware, but the main response to three is; how much do you think he cost out of the budget to be concerned?

In terms of sorting the defence and goalkeeping scenario out - I agree with you that these areas seemed to be less important to TM, however I also would suggest there was a definite lack attacking “potential” coming from the academy before AA and BB came on permanent deals, whereas the u23s seemed full of defenders and midfielders.

Wharton for example - someone who looked the part prior to injury, and any development of his credentials would be a better route to improving the team than spending more money. Carter and Magliore might step up with a similar path of loans to Scott.

4. Last bit on contracts is a bit based on assumption and to some extent I agree - however a pertinent example, we’ve plenty of good players on 6/18 months left, if Ayala came in with 12 and did well - the criticism from the fans would’ve been “why 1 year”

All contracts are a risk. Some even questioned resigning Dack after 12 months off - and whilst I get that, I don’t agree with the assumed simplicity of running this aspect of the club!

The signing of Kaminski is undoubtedly a good one and has been judged as such. I dont get why you need to qualify your comment about Ayala on the flip side by making out that it is easy to judge in hindsight. You could then say with Kaminski, its easy to say hes good with hindsight but it was a risk signing him!

All contracts and indeed all transfers do carry a risk as you touch on but the manager is in a position whereby he is judged without getting to put any poor signings down to a lack of hindsight at the time. Indeed his recruitment in the summer was typically mixed, one very impressive keeper, one outstanding loanee and then a lot of question marks and doubts.

2 hours ago, Ben Frost said:

It's where we are in the league in 104 days time that really matters 

Very true, but the forum and peoples opinions dont have to be on hold to them. And many would suggest that based on us continiously being well off the pace of the top 6 throughout the last 18 months that it goes against what we have seen to date which is all we can go on that we will make it.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Our competition every year are the teams with the biggest budgets, usually the relegated clubs over the past 3yrs and Brentford who have traded massively over the past 3/4yrs.

Can you explain how you expect us to compete with the likes of Norwich or Bournemouth for example this season? We survive on loans mostly, its not going to get us promoted anytime soon as history shows us.

The gap is getting wider by the season, with our budget of £1.49p its tough Rev, regardless who the manager is.

I don't have any problems with ambition, posters should be optimistic, full of hope, I'm far to long in the tooth for that, I can see the current path and its consolidation, mid table and I'm happy with that and even if I wasn't I can't do anything about it, I bleed Blue and White, giving up isn't an option.

Hope you and the family are well by the way.

I feel like the main problem is that you are essentially dismissing the potential of any potential success and indeed the manager meeting his self inflicted targets of a play off push because you have lost all hope.

There are so many factors that ensure that we are not merely a club and Mowbray is not a manager fighting a losing battle as a minnow against the giants. 

One of the main ones is that many if those with higher budgets are not ones whereby the money is freely available to the manager. 2 of the 3 relegated sides and indeed some of those with parachute payments have higher wage bills, but a large chunk is taken up by high earning players who are unwanted. A big example is Stoke, they have Wimmer, Ince, Bauer and a few others on massive wages who are of no use, the side they put out the other week v us had numerous loans, frees and academy graduates with only Allen of any use from the Premier League days. So is their higher wage bill putting them at a massive advantage? No. Was Bowyer at an advantage when he came in and we had a bigger budget that included Murphy, Etuhu and Best on the books?

There are teams like Reading and Swansea who are well above us with managers who have had far less time and no more in the way of resources which undermines the point. Swansea have had to sell key assets including Rodon and build with loans, frees and a 600k signing from Wigan. 

This is before we consider the primary advantages that Mowbray has had, time and no need to sell anyone.

Edited January 25, 2021 by roversfan99

[JBiz]

Stewie Downing on BBC Radio lancs tonight on sport - mentions TM calling the team soft and a pushover, and mentions the reaction for the Boro game.

Some Good bits on the game, the reason for his anger against Donnie, Harvey Elliott etc

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0922wyh

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by JBiz

[JBiz]

57 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

It can hardly have come as a shock to anyone that Williams has spent most the season in the treatment room.

It needed investment but it didn't need cash spent on 3 players, even Tony can only get one on the pitch at a time. And it particularly didn't need 350K spent on and a 4 year deal given to Tony mates son. Just think about that he spent more on a reserve goal keeper than he has spent on the entire defence in 4 years. Not to mention the fact that Pears is a very poor goalkeeper.

This is a 22 year old GK.

 

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, JBiz said:

This is a 22 year old GK.

 

And????

[Ewood Ace]

1 minute ago, JBiz said:

This is a 22 year old GK.

And a very poor one.

[RevidgeBlue]

Serious question re: the Greek lad as I've heard nothing whatsoever about him since the initial euphoria about it supposedly being a massive feather in the cap of the European Scouting System when he signed.

Is he playing at all and if so at what level?

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

And????

 

2 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

And a very poor one.

We’re all welcome to an opinion but I’ll sit on the fence till I see more.

Same with many players before.

Davenport one particular who seems to be enjoying more prominence recently. In the interview with Downing - he mentions how good he thinks he is and the injuries he’s suffered.

I’d rather take stock from those insights as opposed to what I’ve seen in 3 starts? I mean that for any young player.

[Ewood Ace]

3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Serious question re: the Greek lad as I've heard nothing whatsoever about him since the initial euphoria about it supposedly being a massive feather in the cap of the European Scouting System when he signed.

Is he playing at all and if so at what level?

Seems like a strange signing. He's only on the bench for the Under 23's tonight.

3 minutes ago, JBiz said:

 

We’re all welcome to an opinion but I’ll sit on the fence till I see more.

Same with many players before.

Davenport one particular who seems to be enjoying more prominence recently. In the interview with Downing - he mentions how good he thinks he is and the injuries he’s suffered.

I’d rather take stock from those insights as opposed to what I’ve seen in 3 starts? I mean that for any young player.

What has Davenport who has always impressed whenever he has played got to do with Pears who has looked very poor in every game he has played?

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Seems like a strange signing. He's only on the bench for the Under 23's tonight.

Very strange.

Not going to do his development any good whatsoever.

[RevidgeBlue]

3 hours ago, Gav said:

Hope you and the family are well by the way.

We're fine thanks Gav.

I saw Tris in Blues just before Christmas 2019 and he imparted some news I wasn't aware of at that point so hope all is OK at your end.

[47er]

5 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Yes, why wouldn't you be? Appalling level of performance. Being in and around the play offs should be the absolute minimum level of expectation. Really the target should be top 2 with the play offs as a fall back option.

And it's only six because we sneaked a win yesterday. Would you be posting the same if we'd lost and the gap was 9?

Its always 6 except at the start of the season. Its possible that we will finish top half this season, instead of our  usual 11th-12th with a few more points than last season.

At which point, some will laud the progress we are making and argue that TM deserves another year( or 3).

[Gav]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

We're fine thanks Gav.

I saw Tris in Blues just before Christmas 2019 and he imparted some news I wasn't aware of at that point so hope all is OK at your end.

She’s fully recovered thankfully Rev 👍

 

[RevidgeBlue]

7 minutes ago, Gav said:

She’s fully recovered thankfully Rev 👍

 

Fantastic news. 

[chaddyrovers]

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Why sign a young goalkeeper as a number 2 when he will spend his time on the bench?

Well I wouldnt have signed him as we have a couple of young keepers already in the squad/under 23's. 

[Paul Mani]

20 hours ago, phili said:

I have heard that there has been a breakdown in communication between Venky's and TM. It seems to be playing out in a similar way to the end of the Bowyer era, they have just stop communicating with him since the end of November.

Also Braithwaite was bought in by the data team, Pasha and Silvester, completely bypassing Waggott, TM and Venus. Hence why TM is busy thanking Venky's for this transfer and his podcast last week. 

I am not sure how accurate the info is but does explain the sudden charm offensive from TM towards Venky's.

And as if by magic...said I could smell something was off with these interviews etc

[roversfan99]

Do we genuinely think that Venkys listen to a 20 minute segment on the EFL podcast?