Tony Mowbray Discussion

[booth]

6 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Good thing about being on a journey, is you can re set the milometer anytime you want...

’“I think we’re really only 28 games into this journey, not four years”

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19095433.tony-mowbray-says-rovers-promotion-journey-just-begun/

So in basic terms you can stuff the system where Dack thrived.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes the lack of right back to challenge Nyambe has been a problem we have been raise on here a number of times. 

Nyambe is huge prospect? he is 23 years old now. Surely he is too old to be prospect. 

We don't know what the contract problem has been between the club and Nyambe?  

Nyambe isn't a prospect anymore, he is 23 years old now. I ain't his biggest fan of Nyambe over the past of seasons. His defensive game isn't good enough still. Why this haven't improve over the last 2 seasons I don't know. I think we need a new right back

Thanks Miller11. I don't know if he is under pressure from the Owners for sure but his comments today, suggest he is under pressure from someone. 

So if he doesn't study other teams why did he play Armstrong against Dickie in wide forward role with Elliott as false 9 role against QPR? 

Bilic has just gone to China and Jokanovic is managing in the middle East where they both be on massive money contracts. 

I think a younger British manager would be the way to go if we need a replacement

If we want a new manager/head coach would Cheston be in charge of bring in the new person or would that do by other none Rovers related people like an agent or Pasha?

I suspect you have slightly misunderstood my point.

Nyambe is a player who has been performing poorly lately, my point was that criticism of him in isolation is perhaps warranted and I do feel like as a player, he is somewhat of a blue eyed boy with the Rovers fans and as a result perhaps slightly overrated in that when he does make a mistake, blame tends to be apportioned elsewhere and never to him.

That being said, that doesnt mean that I dont rate him. At the moment, he is a very capable Championship right back, admittedly not perfect, and far from 23 years old being ready for the scrapheap, he has a lot of development left in him. I would consider it nigh on impossible for us to replace him should he inevitably leave, especially for a pittance, if I had to guess we will go with Rankin Costello there from next season and he is clearly not a full back.

I also dont think that the situation has necessarily been handled well at all. Bennett was never a better full back, Buckley and Gallagher had laughable cameos there and the Harwood Bellis farce seems to be buttering up to Pep. There has never been another player capable of playing right back with any competence in Mowbrays tenure to ever consider dropping Nyambe even when his form dips. I also do question his man management of him. He will be a big loss once he does move on.

1 hour ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Hope he feels a lot of pressure and leaves our great club. I just don't like him anymore think he's tarnishing his rep and he's becoming poison to the club.

Get him out of here asap.

Hopefully if we do lose tonight he's gone.

He is at risk of tarnishing his reputation potentially but like your previous comments comparing him to Kean, to describe him as poison is needlessly disrespectful and hyperbolic.

53 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Completely disagree, he does deliver good crosses into the box.

I disagree, his crossing from deeper is poor/non existent, and he tends to choose against that option 9 times out of 10 as he knows as much. Prior to this season, I felt like he had very little going forward. One area he has developed on is intelligently though using his physicality to isolate full backs more, which has meant that although his crossing is not great, he is now capable of getting in behind much more often and has started to chalk up assists often in the forms of pull backs from higher positions, as we saw v Barnsley earlier in the season. His crossing may remain poor and rarely be utilised but if he can get into the positions he has started to do so then the final ball may just be a cut back rather than whipping in inch perfect crosses. 

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Tom said:

Remember a bit before Bowyer left his demeanour changed, talked of fans coming out from under their rocks, Big Sam referred to himself as an expert in face of criticism.

Mowbray is changing his tone. I wonder if he finally feels under pressure?

I think he's just been that comfortable here that he reacts this way whenever he gets called out and his feathers are ruffled.

The only pressure i reckon is from his agent buddies not wanting him to blow their gig when their feet are well under the table. Also he'll feel responsible for all his pals in the club, backroom staff, upstairs staff and some players alike.

He gets potted then a few of them will follow more than likely. Would he ever even know if he was under scrutiny in India ?   Doubtful but he should be.

[StevenSK]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't see Nyambe has being in the best 6 rights backs in this league. 

Yes he can keep improving but his days of prospect are gone since he is 23 years old

I disagree that he is our best defender by a mile. He has a problem with positional sense. It has cost us a few goals. 

We have a 12 months contract option which I expect Rovers will exercise. 

Where have a defend Mowbray today. I have posted my doubts on Nyambe for the past couple of seasons on here. 

Nyambe is utter shite

[JHRover]

I think it is probably a combination of a few things that have led to the increasingly bizarre and unhinged comments from Mowbray.

Going off his performance and decision making in games it is clear there is an element of losing the plot. When you end up like we did against Preston you have to wonder what is going through his head. Quite obvious that his head goes west during games especially when we are behind and he has no idea how to turn a game. The stats prove that.

I expect that he is also feeling pressure from several angles. Having sold his project to India and been well backed on it yet be no further on than 2 years ago he will be expecting scrutiny or restlessness in India as it becomes clear even to the slower folk that the playoffs ain't happening.

Of course at a normal club he would be under pressure. But here it is probably more just expected pressure than real with these owners.

He obviously doesn't like pressure or questions from the support base and is probably realising that all his stalling for time and excuses over the last 2.5 years are wearing thin.

He comes with baggage of Venus and Waggo so will also be trying to preserve their positions.

He needs putting out of his misery now. 

Trouble is that we will pluck a win or two from somewhere and then it will be 'back on track' etc. safe as houses because we are 'only' x points off the top six.

 

[tomphil]

Opinions have always varied on Nyambe but i think it's fair to say he's under performing rather than he's shite.

Also fair to say he's always been a target for the scapegoating from the manager. Whenever he has a bad game he gets singled out and often dropped but the choices to stand in are no better. In some cases far worse but they carry managers lap dog status.

If the manager doesn't rate him or just doesn't like him - one of those has been the case for years. Then why the hell has he never replaced him/sold him or tried to upgrade him ?

Surely that's how you improve a team !  

Better still would be to ask yourself why he, Gallagher, Brereton, Bell, Holtby etc constantly under perform.  Then look at your own tactics and system and maybe have pay actual attention to your formations.

We can't replace half the team but we can replace the 2 in charge of it.

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Who is our best defender then?

 

4 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

He has no positional problem the problem is that the manager is asking him to do the jobs of 2 players because he will not play with wingers. The first goal the other night a fantastic case in point Nyambe does what a good full back should and covers his centre backs who are out of position and then the winger should cover Nyambe and track Cunningham but we don't play with wingers.

No we don't play with wingers. I haven't blame Nyambe for that goal but the goal at Newcastle this season was Nyambe failure to track Fraser run. 

5 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Which means that he will either go for free next summer or the club will have to cash in this summer but with him only having 12 months left he would still go for a fraction of what he is really worth. Either way it's a bad result for Rovers.

All depends how much you think he is really worth. 

5 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Name six better then? The only two I can think of are Aarons and Esteves (who is on loan from FC Porto). I'd then have Nyambe in third just ahead of Connor Roberts.

Aarons from Norwick, Roberts from Swansea, Esteves from Reading, Stacey from Bournemouth, Smith from Stoke, Christie on loan from Fulham to Forest 

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Please tell me who these 6 right backs are that are better than Nyambe and are within our budget? 

Did I ever say they were within our budget Parsonblue? 

But they are better right backs in this league than Nyambe. I have named them to Ewood Ace

2 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Nyambe has been excellent as an attacking full-back and has the pace to recover to get back to defend.  We have nobody else at the club who can do that role as well as Nyambe.   We have little in the way of financial resources but you suggest that we spend money on bringing in a player to replace a player who has done a more than decent job in that position.

I don't think he has been excellent as an attacking full back at all. 

We have no one else at the club who can play right back due we haven't bought anyone in. 

I also disagree that we dont have financial resources considering how much Mowbray was backed this season in terms of wage budget and the budget he had in the past 2 previous seasons. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Nyambe is a player who has been performing poorly lately, my point was that criticism of him in isolation is perhaps warranted and I do feel like as a player, he is somewhat of a blue eyed boy with the Rovers fans and as a result perhaps slightly overrated in that when he does make a mistake, blame tends to be apportioned elsewhere and never to him

 

I think he is overrated in my opinion and your comment that he never blame for anything is true

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Bennett was never a better full back, Buckley and Gallagher had laughable cameos there

Never said they were did I?

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

That being said, that doesnt mean that I dont rate him. At the moment, he is a very capable Championship right back, admittedly not perfect, and far from 23 years old being ready for the scrapheap, he has a lot of development left in him. I would consider it nigh on impossible for us to replace him should he inevitably leave, especially for a pittance, if I had to guess we will go with Rankin Costello there from next season and he is clearly not a full back.

No one has mention scarphead have they just that his days of being a prospect for us have gone due to his age and being 23 years old. 

I think we could replace him but thats argument is for the summer and depends who is manager and how we will play next season. I think Rankin Costello would be excellent as wing back in formation that supports that

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

There has never been another player capable of playing right back with any competence in Mowbrays tenure to ever consider dropping Nyambe even when his form dips.

Thats problem, is Nyambe has never had any proper competition at right back under Mowbray

[Ewood Ace]

16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

No we don't play with wingers. I haven't blame Nyambe for that goal but the goal at Newcastle this season was Nyambe failure to track Fraser run. 

He must be defending pretty well if you have to go all the way back to Newcastle to pick out a goal that he was to blame for.

16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Stacey from Bournemouth, Smith from Stoke, Christie on loan from Fulham to Forest 

😆

 

[arbitro]

30 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Opinions have always varied on Nyambe but i think it's fair to say he's under performing rather than he's shite.

Also fair to say he's always been a target for the scapegoating from the manager. Whenever he has a bad game he gets singled out and often dropped but the choices to stand in are no better. In some cases far worse but they carry managers lap dog status.

If the manager doesn't rate him or just doesn't like him - one of those has been the case for years. Then why the hell has he never replaced him/sold him or tried to upgrade him ?

Surely that's how you improve a team !  

Better still would be to ask yourself why he, Gallagher, Brereton, Bell, Holtby etc constantly under perform.  Then look at your own tactics and system and maybe have pay actual attention to your formations.

We can't replace half the team but we can replace the 2 in charge of it.

Although it will be to our detriment part of me hopes Nyambe does leave as I firmly believe that with some proper coaching he could become a Premier League player. Along with Lenihan he started in Mowbrays first game four years ago and it's fair to say neither have kicked on like many thought they would. That, to me speaks volumes for the standard of coaching at Rovers. 

[roversfan99]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

No we don't play with wingers. I haven't blame Nyambe for that goal but the goal at Newcastle this season was Nyambe failure to track Fraser run. 

All depends how much you think he is really worth. 

Aarons from Norwick, Roberts from Swansea, Esteves from Reading, Stacey from Bournemouth, Smith from Stoke, Christie on loan from Fulham to Forest 

Esteves was good v us but has been a sub for Reading lately and Christie is crap. Dijksteel at Boro and Femenia at Watford above many of them there.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

 

I think he is overrated in my opinion and your comment that he never blame for anything is true

Never said they were did I?

No one has mention scarphead have they just that his days of being a prospect for us have gone due to his age and being 23 years old. 

I think we could replace him but thats argument is for the summer and depends who is manager and how we will play next season. I think Rankin Costello would be excellent as wing back in formation that supports that

Thats problem, is Nyambe has never had any proper competition at right back under Mowbray

If there is a plan to play 3 at the back and wing backs, considering it has never really been used (aside from the odd game 2 years ago) so far in the journey, then the journey would be even more stupid than it already is, he shouldnt have a completely new ideal formation ready and primed for next season, he should have already moulded his squad to play whatever his final formation is to be.

Your comments about him not being a prospect are bizarre, you are just nit picking. He is 23 years old so whilst hes not a raw kid, what defines a prospect? He is already a very competent Championship right back with huge scope for further development. Do I feel that people perhaps overrate and overly defend him at times, considering him the best right back in the league? Perhaps, yes. Do I think we have a realistic chance of replacing him, considering his quality and potential? No chance.

He is one of only a handful of players that I am confident that they are good players. Kaminski, happy with him, Dack, happy with him, although not convinced Mowbray knows what to do with him any more. Armstrong, obviously happy with him, although expect him to leave in the summer. Travis, Nyambe and Lenihan are the other 3 I am happy with, and obviously Elliott on loan. For all the rhetoric about the squad being so much better, I dont think I could give a shit if any of the other players left tomorrow. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, Ewood Ace said:

He must be defending pretty well if you have to go all the way back to Newcastle to pick out a goal that he was to blame for.

😆

 

They are other goals he cost us during the last 3 seasons, I have had my doubts about Nyambe for that period of time. I mention Sam Byram a couple of seasons ago. Mention Byrne from Wigan last summer before he moved to Derby. I also mention 2 other right backs targets I would look at signing in the summer. 

Stacey is a very good right back at this level and ahead of Nyambe in my opinion

[RoversClitheroe]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

They are other goals he cost us during the last 3 seasons, I have had my doubts about Nyambe for that period of time. I mention Sam Byram a couple of seasons ago. Mention Byrne from Wigan last summer before he moved to Derby. I also mention 2 other right backs targets I would look at signing in the summer. 

Stacey is a very good right back at this level and ahead of Nyambe in my opinion

None of the options you mentioned that are viable signings are better than Nyambe.

Stacey is a nice lad, but he won't move up north.

[roverandout]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

They are other goals he cost us during the last 3 seasons, I have had my doubts about Nyambe for that period of time. I mention Sam Byram a couple of seasons ago. Mention Byrne from Wigan last summer before he moved to Derby. I also mention 2 other right backs targets I would look at signing in the summer. 

Stacey is a very good right back at this level and ahead of Nyambe in my opinion

You are only scapegoating him because Mowbray is doing it

[Ewood Ace]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

They are other goals he cost us during the last 3 seasons, I have had my doubts about Nyambe for that period of time.

Shock horror a defender has made a few mistakes leading to goals over the last 3 years. I hate to break it to you but every defender in world football has made mistakes that have cost goals in the last 3 years. The fact that you had to go back to Newcastle for a mistake he made that cost us a goal suggests that he is defending rather well. Whereas with the like of Lenihan and Branthwaite you would only have to go back a matter of days.

Who would you say is out best defender?

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Stacey is a very good right back at this level and ahead of Nyambe in my opinion

Stacey is poor defensively. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Ewood Ace

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Esteves was good v us but has been a sub for Reading lately and Christie is crap. Dijksteel at Boro and Femenia at Watford above many of them there.

all about opinions 

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If there is a plan to play 3 at the back and wing backs, considering it has never really been used (aside from the odd game 2 years ago) so far in the journey, then the journey would be even more stupid than it already is, he shouldnt have a completely new ideal formation ready and primed for next season, he should have already moulded his squad to play whatever his final formation is to be.

I was more talking if a new manager came in and decide to change formations

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Your comments about him not being a prospect are bizarre, you are just nit picking. He is 23 years old so whilst hes not a raw kid, what defines a prospect?

a prospect is someone in the under 23's squad or on the fringes of the squad not someone who has made 133 appearances in the last 5 seasons. 

[Richard Oakley]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Did I ever say they were within our budget Parsonblue? 

But they are better right backs in this league than Nyambe. I have named them to Ewood Ace

I don't think he has been excellent as an attacking full back at all. 

We have no one else at the club who can play right back due we haven't bought anyone in. 

I also disagree that we dont have financial resources considering how much Mowbray was backed this season in terms of wage budget and the budget he had in the past 2 previous seasons. 

The question asked was for you to name 6 right backs who are better than Nyambe, are within our budget and for whom a transfer could have been done(that's implied). I agree with you that Nyambe's crossing is not what you'd expect, especially considering Downing's been here a year and a half. The U23's Pike's highly touted and the club has a 12 month option on Nyambe.

I agree with you about the resources being available.

I think that Branthwaite and THB were both signed as cover primarily for Lenihan who has a history of injuries at this time of the year. Signing a player was sensible precaution. Signing two loanees who have to play every week, wasn't. Whilst Venkys can absorb the financial hit, if they don't, it would come under another demand that they hadn't budgeted for at this time.

Mowbray certainly won't let anyone leave that he likes. Williams could have gone for a fee in the summer and Mowbray wouldn't let him go. Now Williams is "injured". Like under Coyle, Evans is "injured", except during international breaks. Johnson doesn't see eye-to-eye with Mowbray and he's "injured". Frankly, the number of first team players injured beggars belief.

Venkys have twice failed to make this club self-sustaining in the Championship. Very few clubs are self-sustaining. Those that are balancing their budget have to sell players every year. Their recruitment departments have finding replacing those players as their top priority.

@arbitrothat they haven't kicked on is why they are still here. You could tell in Mowbray's interview out in India that developing players to sell is not a business model he approves of. it was all in the tone. Signing both Armstrong and Nyambe to long term contract say 2024 would show intent to develop and sell. Neither Gallagher nor Brereton have been developed to even reflect their transfer feees.

[tomphil]

9 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Although it will be to our detriment part of me hopes Nyambe does leave as I firmly believe that with some proper coaching he could become a Premier League player. Along with Lenihan he started in Mowbrays first game four years ago and it's fair to say neither have kicked on like many thought they would. That, to me speaks volumes for the standard of coaching at Rovers. 

We need to define whether we are a promotion team or just a development team imo. That's the lack of identity, a side looking/pushing/building to go for it or one just looking to develop players and hope to finish as high as possible every year.

Trying to develop too many at once just leaves us open to poor mistakes, unsettled from one game to the next. Unsettled from the start of a game to the end as well often.

In an ideal world a good center half in their for the past few years and a good left back might see by now Nyambie & Lenihen worth 5/8 million each.  Too much tombola sees neither prosper as you pointed out and the team as unbalanced as its ever been.

Now back to that 7 million and 5 million and where it really needed spending a couple of years ago !

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

None of the options you mentioned that are viable signings are better than Nyambe.

Stacey is a nice lad, but he won't move up north.

The six right backs I named are better right backs than himself but I mention 3 players who are reallsitic targets. Do you want me to name the 3 players again

4 minutes ago, roverandout said:

You are only scapegoating him because Mowbray is doing it

yet again, I have mention my concerns over Nyambe for the past 3 seasons. So no scrapgoating but yourself overrated him cos he came through the academy

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Who would you say is out best defender?

currently none of them after Friday night performance and recent performances

[Ewood Ace]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

currently none of them after Friday night performance and recent performances

Do you not think that is a sad indictment of Mowbray that after 4 years in charge you don't think any of our defenders are good? Surely a sackable offence?

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, Richard Oakley said:

The question asked was for you to name 6 right backs who are better than Nyambe, are within our budget and for whom a transfer could have been done(that's implied)

The question was from Ewood Ace who asked me to name 6 better right backs than Nyambe. I did that. https://www.brfcs.com/forums/topic/34120-tony-mowbray-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=2173370

 

1 minute ago, Ewood Ace said:

Do you not think that is a sad indictment of Mowbray that after 4 years in charge you don't think any of our defenders are good? Surely a sackable offence?

My answer was based on current form. I think we are missing Wharton and Ayala badly. 

[Parsonblue]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

The six right backs I named are better right backs than himself but I mention 3 players who are reallsitic targets. Do you want me to name the 3 players again

yet again, I have mention my concerns over Nyambe for the past 3 seasons. So no scrapgoating but yourself overrated him cos he came through the academy

Mowbray is doing to Nyambe exactly what he did to Raya.  I suspect Nyambe is totally fed up with the way he has been treated and has indicated that the new contract will be left unsigned - hence Mowbray now scapegoating him.

I've supported Mowbray throughout his time at the club but, rather like Bob Saxton who did a similar job in the 1980s, there comes a point when you reach the end of the road at any club.  I believe he's done a decent job but is not going to take us any further and my worry is that we become a nursery club for Premier League clubs.  

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

all about opinions 

I was more talking if a new manager came in and decide to change formations

a prospect is someone in the under 23's squad or on the fringes of the squad not someone who has made 133 appearances in the last 5 seasons. 

Well if you want to be pedantic. He is a very capable Championship full back with plenty of time to improve further. He has been our only capable right back through Mowbrays tenure here and he should play every single minute that he possibly can.