Tony Mowbray Discussion

[dcbrfc]

2 minutes ago, renrag said:

27 actually

Cheers - didn’t have time to look it up 

[rigger]

1 minute ago, dcbrfc said:

You asked me if I would class not losing in six games an ‘up’. My answer is yes. I didn’t say we were on an unbeaten run.

Perhaps I should have worded it: Do you class not losing our sixth game in a row as an up.  

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

5 minutes ago, dcbrfc said:

Because times have changed. Souness days were some of the best I’ve experienced (missed a lot of the Hughes time as was away at uni). But we were a Premier League club back then in a different era. The game is different now. Look at the clubs in this league who have bigger budgets and far better squads. And I’m not saying we should never be back there I just don’t think it’s a realistic expectation right now. We were a Second Division club for what 15 years before we went up in 92? And yes I’m sticking with Mowbray because after all he’s done for the club - he’s the best thing to happen to Blackburn Rovers since Venky’s walked through the doors 10 years ago - I just feel he deserves a bit longer. If we get sucked into a proper relegation battle then yea sack him but as things stand we should give him more time, support the team and hope results can change.

Nah, he's shite. A man devoid of ideas but full of excuses. And your own personal excuse for Mowbray that a club can't progress every year is trite. We need promotion, Mowbray stated Top 6 was the target, we are failing massively. Whether we become embroiled in an actual relegation battle is irrelevant to whether he should keep his job. 

And just be grateful that there were no football questions on your journo exam. 😉

[dcbrfc]

1 minute ago, Theaxe15 said:

I dare say we are on the cusp of a relegation battle as it is. And if we get fully entrenched into one then I really do fear for us as after watching that 2nd half yesterday, I don't think we'd have the fight in us to survive.

We’ve still got an 11 point cushion but if we do get dragged down there then I would say that’s time for a management change.

[dcbrfc]

Just now, rigger said:

Perhaps I should have worded it: Do you class not losing our sixth game in a row as an up.  

Sorry misunderstood. In that case no, yesterday’s result was massively disappointing.

[Mattyblue]

1 minute ago, dcbrfc said:

We’ve still got an 11 point cushion but if we do get dragged down there then I would say that’s time for a management change.

End of the day Dan, he gets sacked tomorrow are you really going to think the owners have made a grave error?

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

6 minutes ago, dcbrfc said:

Not every year. We nearly went down in 91. Plenty of struggles during the 80s.

And we got in the play offs in the 80s with fewer resources than Mowbray has enjoyed. 

[dcbrfc]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

End of the day Dan, he gets sacked tomorrow are you really going to think the owners have made a grave error?

I’ll get over it!

[Theaxe15]

2 minutes ago, dcbrfc said:

We’ve still got an 11 point cushion but if we do get dragged down there then I would say that’s time for a management change.

I can see that 11 points being eaten up pretty rapidly after the next few games of 0 points. 

Appreciate the stability Mowbray brought to the club with the promotion and behind the scenes work, so I get where you are coming from there, but our performances have been wretched for the last year and a half asides from a month or two at the beginning of this season. I don't see how he deserves more time with it 

[Waggy76]

16 minutes ago, dcbrfc said:

Because times have changed. Souness days were some of the best I’ve experienced (missed a lot of the Hughes time as was away at uni). But we were a Premier League club back then in a different era. The game is different now. Look at the clubs in this league who have bigger budgets and far better squads. And I’m not saying we should never be back there I just don’t think it’s a realistic expectation right now. We were a Second Division club for what 15 years before we went up in 92? And yes I’m sticking with Mowbray because after all he’s done for the club - he’s the best thing to happen to Blackburn Rovers since Venky’s walked through the doors 10 years ago - I just feel he deserves a bit longer. If we get sucked into a proper relegation battle then yea sack him but as things stand we should give him more time, support the team and hope results can change.

Personally from what I have witnessed this season  albeit on TV , we will stay up this season .If there is no change in the manager for NEXT season , we will get relegated .

Get it done now and give the new manager a chance to evalute the squad ..

[Mattyblue]

5 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

And we got in the play offs in the 80s with fewer resources than Mowbray has enjoyed. 

Between 80/81 and 89/90 we finished 4th, 10th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 18th, 12th, 5th, 5th, 5th.

Remember the play offs only started in 1988.

All done without a pot to piss in a division that was much stronger than now, full of clubs like Leeds, Man City, Chelsea, Newcastle etc. Now that’s a club to be proud of.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Mattyblue

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

6 minutes ago, dcbrfc said:

We’ve still got an 11 point cushion but if we do get dragged down there then I would say that’s time for a management change.

How many points from safety is the trigger point? 

[Mattyblue]

3 minutes ago, dcbrfc said:

I’ll get over it!

Exactly.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Between 80/81 and 89/90 we finished 4th, 10th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 18th, 12th, 5th, 5th, 5th.

Remember the play offs only started in 1988.

All done without a pot to piss in. Now that’s a club to be proud of.

We had good managers then, and a Board that understood the importance of having good managers. Now we have self serving incompetents, fluent in double-speak. 

[Blue blood]

21 minutes ago, dcbrfc said:

Yep I’m a Rovers fan. Get to be a journalist by studying three years for a degree and completing a postgraduate certificate. Funnily enough they don’t ask for your opinions on football in any of the exams.

Well your second reply is more substantive than the first Will tackle each in turn: 

First comment - there are always ups and downs. 

Well yes, there are but that's not the whole story is it. How big is the regression? Why the regression? the context is hugely important. Is it because of factors in or out of our control? 

Using education as an example, as that's my background, if we have a bad set of lessons I'd look to the reasons why we delivered a bad set of lessons/or lesson  If it was stuff we did wrong, then that's not good, and needs to be improved. If it's basic stuff i or a staff member was getting wrong we would put them on an improvement plan. On the flip side it could be because of factors out of our control - maybe the kids haven't had any behaviour management, or it's the last day of term, or something bad has kicked off in the playground. Equally the severity of the problem also makes a difference. If it's a safeguarding issue for example then that is very serious and can't be wiped off as you have ups and downs. 

Similarly in football  - why the regression, if it's down to the manager's poor tactics, formations, selections and signings, the he clearly is to blame. If it's circumstances out of his control then less so. Similarly the severity also matters - if we are in danger of being relegated, then we can't be blase about it (I don't think we are yet btw but next season looks grim).  To say it's just natural to have ups and downs is flawed in any business - education, football, it's more complex than that. 

Secondly - we would be champions by now if we always improved. 

C'mon that's overly simplistic too. For starters it's not factoring in that other teams are improving or the rate of improvement. Brentford are a prime example of a club that have improved year on year but because of the level they are at, are not yet world champions. The speed of improvement, and the ability of other clubs to also improve, means it's not a simple case of leapfrogging clubs, sometimes improvements are needed just to keep up. What's the saying about standing still/staying the same means getting left behind?  

 

11 minutes ago, dcbrfc said:

Because times have changed. Souness days were some of the best I’ve experienced (missed a lot of the Hughes time as was away at uni). But we were a Premier League club back then in a different era. The game is different now. Look at the clubs in this league who have bigger budgets and far better squads. And I’m not saying we should never be back there I just don’t think it’s a realistic expectation right now. We were a Second Division club for what 15 years before we went up in 92? And yes I’m sticking with Mowbray because after all he’s done for the club - he’s the best thing to happen to Blackburn Rovers since Venky’s walked through the doors 10 years ago - I just feel he deserves a bit longer. If we get sucked into a proper relegation battle then yea sack him but as things stand we should give him more time, support the team and hope results can change.

Hang on so much I disagree with on this too. 

Look at the clubs with a bigger budget - they did under Hughes and Souness, but we still gave them a fight. A bigger budget does not equate success. Also look at how clubs like Boro and Barnsely are doing, a bigger budget even in this league does not equate to success. Likewise look at bigger budget clubs who haven't done as well as their budget in this league and the prem. It's not that simple, or if it is, we may as well just pack it in. 

The realistic expectation is not to do with necessarily getting promotion but a) properly challenging and b) not making stupid arse-ups like the striker at right back, losing 5 in a row, chopping and changing the team and formation each game.  Those I would say are realistic expectations, no divine right to the Prem, just doing things properly and properly competing. 

Were in the league 15 years before Jack. Well yes, but we aren't the same club in may ways as pre Jack. We have bigger revenues, a good ground and training facilities (for now) we are a completely different animal. We can't hark back to the Premiership winning days (nobody is mind) but equally the pre-Jack days are equally an era that doesn't exist. W

Best thing since Venkys - yeah that's a tallest dwarf if ever isn't it? That's not a high standard, in fact there's room to be poor and this still to be the case. And he is - we've the Coventry three trying to get rid of the training ground, the team is a mess, and as for all he has done for us. Promotion from League 1 - yes. Outside of that? He's spunked away most of the budget, he's given us some shocking winless runs, the team is going to dismantle next season (Nayambe, Armstrong, Elliott and Rothwell leaving will be a bad start) he's loaded us with crocks in defence. You could argue he consolidated us as a championship club again, but that was 2 years ago. We've had chances to kick on and challenge for promotions for the last three seasons and he has bottled it. How's that everything he has done? How's that better -than how Hughes and Souness had us punching above our weight? Obviously not a like-for-like comparison, but when you consider what they achieved and punched above their weight achieving, how can you think TM has done a cracking job? I really struggle to understand this. 

 

[47er]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

That’s the level of his insight, so I reckon you can safely disregard.

 

We've had loads of posts this season supporting Mowbray by pointing out that we had more points than last season,scored more goals and were higher up the table.

Funnily they've all stopped!

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

2 minutes ago, 47er said:

We've had loads of posts this season supporting Mowbray by pointing out that we had more points than last season,scored more goals and were higher up the table.

Funnily they've all stopped!

Now, as long as we don't get embroiled in relegation scrap, Mowbray can stay! 

Hilarious. 

[Waggy76]

21 minutes ago, Theaxe15 said:

I dare say we are on the cusp of a relegation battle as it is. And if we get fully entrenched into one then I really do fear for us as after watching that 2nd half yesterday, I don't think we'd have the fight in us to survive.

We havent got the personnel to battle , last time we survived a relegation battle was with Big Sam at the helm ..

I dont count Keans effort cos he wouldnt have done it without Big Sam ...Or Man U playing the last 10 mins like a pre season friendly...

[dcbrfc]

4 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Well your second reply is more substantive than the first Will tackle each in turn: 

First comment - there are always ups and downs. 

Well yes, there are but that's not the whole story is it. How big is the regression? Why the regression? the context is hugely important. Is it because of factors in or out of our control? 

Using education as an example, as that's my background, if we have a bad set of lessons I'd look to the reasons why we delivered a bad set of lessons/or lesson  If it was stuff we did wrong, then that's not good, and needs to be improved. If it's basic stuff i or a staff member was getting wrong we would put them on an improvement plan. On the flip side it could be because of factors out of our control - maybe the kids haven't had any behaviour management, or it's the last day of term, or something bad has kicked off in the playground. Equally the severity of the problem also makes a difference. If it's a safeguarding issue for example then that is very serious and can't be wiped off as you have ups and downs. 

Similarly in football  - why the regression, if it's down to the manager's poor tactics, formations, selections and signings, the he clearly is to blame. If it's circumstances out of his control then less so. Similarly the severity also matters - if we are in danger of being relegated, then we can't be blase about it (I don't think we are yet btw but next season looks grim).  To say it's just natural to have ups and downs is flawed in any business - education, football, it's more complex than that. 

Secondly - we would be champions by now if we always improved. 

C'mon that's overly simplistic too. For starters it's not factoring in that other teams are improving or the rate of improvement. Brentford are a prime example of a club that have improved year on year but because of the level they are at, are not yet world champions. The speed of improvement, and the ability of other clubs to also improve, means it's not a simple case of leapfrogging clubs, sometimes improvements are needed just to keep up. What's the saying about standing still/staying the same means getting left behind?  

 

Hang on so much I disagree with on this too. 

Look at the clubs with a bigger budget - they did under Hughes and Souness, but we still gave them a fight. A bigger budget does not equate success. Also look at how clubs like Boro and Barnsely are doing, a bigger budget even in this league does not equate to success. Likewise look at bigger budget clubs who haven't done as well as their budget in this league and the prem. It's not that simple, or if it is, we may as well just pack it in. 

The realistic expectation is not to do with necessarily getting promotion but a) properly challenging and b) not making stupid arse-ups like the striker at right back, losing 5 in a row, chopping and changing the team and formation each game.  Those I would say are realistic expectations, no divine right to the Prem, just doing things properly and properly competing. 

Were in the league 15 years before Jack. Well yes, but we aren't the same club in may ways as pre Jack. We have bigger revenues, a good ground and training facilities (for now) we are a completely different animal. We can't hark back to the Premiership winning days (nobody is mind) but equally the pre-Jack days are equally an era that doesn't exist. W

Best thing since Venkys - yeah that's a tallest dwarf if ever isn't it? That's not a high standard, in fact there's room to be poor and this still to be the case. And he is - we've the Coventry three trying to get rid of the training ground, the team is a mess, and as for all he has done for us. Promotion from League 1 - yes. Outside of that? He's spunked away most of the budget, he's given us some shocking winless runs, the team is going to dismantle next season (Nayambe, Armstrong, Elliott and Rothwell leaving will be a bad start) he's loaded us with crocks in defence. You could argue he consolidated us as a championship club again, but that was 2 years ago. We've had chances to kick on and challenge for promotions for the last three seasons and he has bottled it. How's that everything he has done? How's that better -than how Hughes and Souness had us punching above our weight? Obviously not a like-for-like comparison, but when you consider what they achieved and punched above their weight achieving, how can you think TM has done a cracking job? I really struggle to understand this. 

 

Can’t say I agree with the education metaphor as in football there are always two teams, so there’s always gonna be a winner/loser (unless it’s a draw obviously!) but in a classroom you don’t have two sets of people trying to win a game!

You put out a very reasoned and fair argument here and I don’t have the energy to continue the debate right now. There’s clearly two sides to this, as with everything, and one argument is not going to change the mind of the other.

I came on here today for the first time in years as I was informed I was being slated for my comments on Twitter. I’ve responded to some but I’m going to respectfully sign out for now.

What does concern me is the constant tearing down of fellow fans for their differing opinions. We’re all (I assume) Rovers fans here. COYB. Enjoy your Sunday.

[47er]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yes, you're right regarding Travis and Rothwell. When did you last either of those run beyond the strikers ? I wouldn't want Evans up there, he couldn't hit the side of a bus with the ball.

If Evans got as far as he penalty area he'd die of oxygen deprivation!

[Theaxe15]

1 minute ago, Waggy76 said:

We havent got the personnel to battle , last time we survived a relegation battle was with Big Sam at the helm ..

I dont count Keans effort cos he wouldnt have done it without Big Sam ...Or Man U playing the last 10 mins like a pre season friendly...

Agreed. There's not a single player in there that you could see bollocking his team mates and dragging them up by the scruff of the neck to win crucial games. Too nice, no backbone

[AllRoverAsia]

17 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Between 80/81 and 89/90 we finished 4th, 10th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 18th, 12th, 5th, 5th, 5th.

Remember the play offs only started in 1988.

All done without a pot to piss in a division that was much stronger than now, full of clubs like Leeds, Man City, Chelsea, Newcastle etc. Now that’s a club to be proud of.

Nice one!

Blew the bullshit lie of ''Plenty of struggles during the 80s'' right out of the water.

[matt83]

1 minute ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Now, as long as we don't get embroiled in relegation scrap, Mowbray can stay! 

Hilarious. 

Then it’ll be as long as we’re not adrift at the bottom. Then well he got us up before he can do it again...There is a Scientology esque cult surrounding Mowbray - it’s bizarre. He was lucky to get a job here, on balance he’s done ok, but once he leaves he’s not getting a better job. 

[47er]

39 minutes ago, dcbrfc said:

Because times have changed. Souness days were some of the best I’ve experienced (missed a lot of the Hughes time as was away at uni). But we were a Premier League club back then in a different era. The game is different now. Look at the clubs in this league who have bigger budgets and far better squads. And I’m not saying we should never be back there I just don’t think it’s a realistic expectation right now. We were a Second Division club for what 15 years before we went up in 92? And yes I’m sticking with Mowbray because after all he’s done for the club - he’s the best thing to happen to Blackburn Rovers since Venky’s walked through the doors 10 years ago - I just feel he deserves a bit longer. If we get sucked into a proper relegation battle then yea sack him but as things stand we should give him more time, support the team and hope results can change.

And start next season expecting what? You do realise we are losing supporters at an alarming rate? Hidden by the virus.

If he's here next season our crowds will fall at a spectacular rate.

The club is dying. we have nothing to look forward --to unless this guy goes. Even then.....

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

45 minutes ago, dcbrfc said:

We’ve still got an 11 point cushion but if we do get dragged down there then I would say that’s time for a management change.

Have you not considered it might be a bit too late by then ? I know one thing, this lot won't get us out of a relegation scrap if we get in one. You can count the fighters in the team on the fingers of one hand ( thumb doesn't count ). He couldn't keep us up before and since then he hasn't signed one player who's got a bit of fight in them. The only guys who put a foot in were already here when he came.

Edit. Sorry I got that wrong. He has signed 1 player who had some fight in him out of the 30 odd he must have signed in the last four years. Ritchie Smallwood.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Tyrone Shoelaces