Tony Mowbray Discussion

[simongarnerisgod]

2 hours ago, booth said:

Course he won't, we'll have players out of position, strange substitutions and trying to play possession football whilst parking the bus during 1-0 leads in no time. I hope he proves me wrong.

i keep telling y`all ,is doing the team shape and tactics,tony is just the figurehead,how else can you explain this sudden change in approach,venus will be taking over the managers seat next season,tony will be off,retired or whatever

[Roverinbelfast]

42 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

i keep telling y`all ,is doing the team shape and tactics,tony is just the figurehead,how else can you explain this sudden change in approach,venus will be taking over the managers seat next season,tony will be off,retired or whatever

Sorry but I don't buy this at all. 

A more back to basics approach and a group of players who have started this season sweating blood for each other is all down to the TM. Let's give him credit when it's due as he has been slated for 2 years largely on this forum. 

Like everyone else, the much publicised 2 wins in 17 saw me loose my support for TM last season , I wanted him out and was miffed why it didn't happen. 

So on to a new season and SO FAR, things have definitely improved. And as long as it continues I'm more than happy to have my opinion changed. I feel that he is still lucky to be in a job, but he has also almost flipped that 2 wins in 17, as we currently stand at 2 defeats in our last 15 league games. 

 

[simongarnerisgod]

38 minutes ago, Roverinbelfast said:

Sorry but I don't buy this at all. 

A more back to basics approach and a group of players who have started this season sweating blood for each other is all down to the TM. Let's give him credit when it's due as he has been slated for 2 years largely on this forum. 

Like everyone else, the much publicised 2 wins in 17 saw me loose my support for TM last season , I wanted him out and was miffed why it didn't happen. 

So on to a new season and SO FAR, things have definitely improved. And as long as it continues I'm more than happy to have my opinion changed. I feel that he is still lucky to be in a job, but he has also almost flipped that 2 wins in 17, as we currently stand at 2 defeats in our last 15 league games. 

 

you have to ask yourself why after so many seasons with his possesion based shite has he changed and so has the sides mentality,we don`t look at all like the soft touch we were previously,i honestly think he`s handed over all team matters to venus,he now just faces the press and appears on the touchline ,lets be honest he looks more happier than he has done for the last couple of seasons

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, simongarnerisgod said:

you have to ask yourself why after so many seasons with his possesion based shite has he changed and so has the sides mentality,we don`t look at all like the soft touch we were previously,i honestly think he`s handed over all team matters to venus,he now just faces the press and appears on the touchline ,lets be honest he looks more happier than he has done for the last couple of seasons

Have there been "so many seasons" with possession based shite? The first 2 full seasons, we were a very direct side, whether that involved an element of pragmatism that moved away from Mowbray's ideals is speculative and indeed irrelevant, we certainly could not be described as a possession based team. Even in the second season in the Championship, although we had Downing, Holtby and Adarabioyo, I wouldn't say that we focused too much on possession, it was only really last season when we tried and totally failed to control games based on flawed logic.

The Venus theory seems like a bit of a jump to me. Surely the most logical reason would be a mixture of realising that what he had tried to implement didn't work, and also a natural pragmatism due to the inferior resources and squad available to him?

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

The Venus theory seems like a bit of a jump to me. Surely the most logical reason would be a mixture of realising that what he had tried to implement didn't work, and also a natural pragmatism due to the inferior resources and squad available to him?

I agree on the Venus theory with you. Not sure Venus does much coaching now. 

I think Mowbray and his staff has had hard and long over the summer look at how to best from his squad and found a style that's suits the squad and getting the best from them

Edited September 26, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

I agree on the Venus theory with you. Not sure Venus does much coaching now. 

I think Mowbray and his staff has had hard and long over the squad with his style look at how to best from his squad and found a style that's suits the squad and getting the best from them

I still think that we will not sustain the early start, that the team will likely be broken up due to the owners negligence, and that the summer window was an unsuccessful one, 100%. But the manager deserves praise for the first 9 games, can't just put it down to luck.

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I still think that we will not sustain the early start, that the team will likely be broken up due to the owners negligence, and that the summer window was an unsuccessful one, 100%. But the manager deserves praise for the first 9 games, can't just put it down to luck.

What owners negligence? They back the club and players have been offered new contracts like Lenihan, Rothwell,, etc. 

Disagree on the summer window so far. Yes we did failed to sign a striker but Brereton, Dolan and Gallgher have step up to the plate so far. 

We see where we finish but I think they are possible 2 places(maybe 3) left for Playoffs places this season and I think we are one about 12 teams challenging for those 2 places. Injuries, suspensions, players form and what happens in January window will play a massive part in this playoff season 

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

What owners negligence? They back the club and players have been offered new contracts like Lenihan, Rothwell,, etc. 

Disagree on the summer window so far. Yes we did failed to sign a striker but Brereton, Dolan and Gallgher have step up to the plate so far. 

We see where we finish but I think they are possible 2 places(maybe 3) left for Playoffs places this season and I think we are one about 12 teams challenging for those 2 places. Injuries, suspensions, players form and what happens in January window will play a massive part in this playoff season 

Clearly not enough to entice any of these players to actually sign these contracts. Strike whilst the iron is hot and we are doing well, money is and always will be the driving factor behind such issues so there is no excuse. Just a continious spouting of how bad Covid is in India whilst half of our team runs down their contract and leaves us in the sheet. But at least Balaji "wrote" a letter saying that he cares. 

 

I dont see how the window can be seen as anything other than a failure, we havent improved the starting 11. We publically announced that we wanted a striker, we didnt get one. We signed 5 players and judging now, Clarkson looks like a little boy lost when he comes on, Van Hecke will be injured until the point when he will be one of 5 centre backs, so what was the point? Poveda has looked really poor in his only 2 starts, Edun is just a squad filler and Khadra looks the most promising of the 5 and he himself is a squad player. I hope at least some of the 5 grow into things and make significant contributions but we have just added to the numbers, it seems at this present moment.

The improvement has come through players that were already contracted here. Ayala is (temporarily at least) fit and has improved our defence, as has Pickering who signed in January. Brereton has also matched last seasons goal tally and Travis is back fit and in much better shape. Dolan has also showed flashes in some games. These all have benefitted the team but none of them reflect the transfer window.

[JohnGo]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Clearly not enough to entice any of these players to actually sign these contracts. Strike whilst the iron is hot and we are doing well, money is and always will be the driving factor behind such issues so there is no excuse. Just a continious spouting of how bad Covid is in India whilst half of our team runs down their contract and leaves us in the sheet. But at least Balaji "wrote" a letter saying that he cares. 

 

I dont see how the window can be seen as anything other than a failure, we havent improved the starting 11. We publically announced that we wanted a striker, we didnt get one. We signed 5 players and judging now, Clarkson looks like a little boy lost when he comes on, Van Hecke will be injured until the point when he will be one of 5 centre backs, so what was the point? Poveda has looked really poor in his only 2 starts, Edun is just a squad filler and Khadra looks the most promising of the 5 and he himself is a squad player. I hope at least some of the 5 grow into things and make significant contributions but we have just added to the numbers, it seems at this present moment.

The improvement has come through players that were already contracted here. Ayala is (temporarily at least) fit and has improved our defence, as has Pickering who signed in January. Brereton has also matched last seasons goal tally and Travis is back fit and in much better shape. Dolan has also showed flashes in some games. These all have benefitted the team but none of them reflect the transfer window.

FFP!

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, JohnGo said:

FFP!

Weve just sold a 15m player, we can offer 3 or 4 players a few extra grand a week, 2k a week would be 100k a year. Even if it meant sacrificing one in January to keep the other 3. Financially, letting all of them leave for frees would be the most counterproductive option. FFP is a convenient excuse and one of which there has been no public mention even by Steve excuses Waggott of in regards to these new deals.

Edited September 26, 2021 by roversfan99

[JohnGo]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Weve just sold a 15m player, we can offer 3 or 4 players a few extra grand a week, 2k a week would be 100k a year. Even if it meant sacrificing one in January to keep the other 3. Financially, letting all of them leave for frees would be the most counterproductive option. FFP is a convenient excuse and one of which there has been no public mention even by Steve excuses Waggott of in regards to these new deals.

Unless we are guaranteed promotion then FFP comes into affect. I don’t want us to be the next Derby/Bolton or even Bury.

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, JohnGo said:

Unless we are guaranteed promotion then FFP comes into affect. I don’t want us to be the next Derby/Bolton or even Bury.

That to me is the ultimate unfounded comparison, and a totally unsubstantiated one. Offering a miniscule fraction of the proceeds of a major sale to improve contract offers to tie down other valuable assets who can potentially then be sold at some point does not put us at risk of becoming like any of those clubs.

We could offer 3 of them new deals and sell one in January. If they all go for free, we will need to replace them all with freebies who will themselves require competitive wages, most likely will not carry comparitive value and will also of course expect signing on fees. FFP my arse.

[JohnGo]

36 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

That to me is the ultimate unfounded comparison, and a totally unsubstantiated one. Offering a miniscule fraction of the proceeds of a major sale to improve contract offers to tie down other valuable assets who can potentially then be sold at some point does not put us at risk of becoming like any of those clubs.

We could offer 3 of them new deals and sell one in January. If they all go for free, we will need to replace them all with freebies who will themselves require competitive wages, most likely will not carry comparitive value and will also of course expect signing on fees. FFP my arse.

Agreed somewhat 99, but FFP is not fixed with a one-off windfall. Until we get out of this god awful division we have to plan for the long term. Giving improved contracts to a few will make the rest unsettled. They have to keep a tight reign on costs until success is secured.

[Sparks Rover]

9 minutes ago, JohnGo said:

Giving improved contracts to a few will make the rest unsettled. They have to keep a tight reign on costs until success is secured.

I don't think anyone could argue with BB getting a pay rise...he has become an international and is on target to be our top scorer, spearhead.  He need tying down but I fear a good agent will get him a decent move.

[JohnGo]

I agree Sparks, agents are the scum of the earth. Players need expert help when negotiating contracts, but these twats are only in it for their cut. I don’t understand why clubs have to pay. It’s the player’s responsibility to get the best advise. I have to pay for pension advise not my Indian employer.

13 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I don't think anyone could argue with BB getting a pay rise...he has become an international and is on target to be our top scorer, spearhead.  He need tying down but I fear a good agent will get him a decent move.

[roversfan99]

11 minutes ago, JohnGo said:

Agreed somewhat 99, but FFP is not fixed with a one-off windfall. Until we get out of this god awful division we have to plan for the long term. Giving improved contracts to a few will make the rest unsettled. They have to keep a tight reign on costs until success is secured.

The point about player morale is totally seperate to FFP, and I would personally say a more valid and likely one, and something that indeed has been publically mentioned. 

That being said, I am not suggesting that we should break the wage structure to get any of them. Brereton and Lenihan along with Dack you would suggest should be possibly our highest earners, as our main attacker and our captain respectively. Whilst with Rothwell and Nyambe, I would (this is an assumption) presume are not amongst our highest earners, with the former on the initial deal he signed after leaving League 1 Oxford to join as a squad player, and Nyambe last signing a deal before establishing and massively developing himself. I would suggest that we could give them a decent rise as important first teamers without smashing the wage ceiling. Plus think of the replacement cost.

[Boroblue]

I’m not sure if Covid and looking at what is happening at a lot of the clubs in the championship a new sense of commercial realism is wrong.

I agree that nyambe lenihan rothwell are regular first team players but are they going to get substantial wage increase at any other club. None are premiership quality so it’s championship or league one. The only teams who could offer substantial wage increases are those with parachute money and would they pay large sums to potential squad players who may not even play if they are promoted.

We released 12 players in summer that we were paying large wages for did any go on to bigger and better things. Yet historically we continued the cycle of increased contracts due to fear of losing them. 
I don’t know the offers on the table but we as a club are in a position were our viability is more important than their every increasing wage demands. I also don’t think we are the only club now taking a long hard look at the road we’ve been travelling 

 

[roverandout]

11 hours ago, JohnGo said:

FFP!

Ffp ffp Ffp. Why are there no fans? Ffp. Why is Mowbray useless? Ffp. Why is the pitch so bad? Ffp

[JHRover]

12 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

What owners negligence? They back the club and players have been offered new contracts like Lenihan, Rothwell,, etc.

😆😆😆

Lord almighty.

[JHRover]

Mowbray is performing above expectations so far and I hope that continues. Amidst the hysteria though I do have to remind myself that we dished out a few impressive beatings early on last season (Derby, Wycombe, Coventry) and then as time went by our good start ground to a halt and then the wheels came off and we ended up looking at a relegation scrap. So I won't be falling for that one again and won't be hailing a new era either. Same manager and same coaching staff, lets hope lessons have been learned and the same mistakes don't happen again.

Mowbray has form for these purple patches especially at the start of seasons. His career shows he struggles to maintain them - Middlesbrough and Coventry both got off to blistering starts and then collapsed.

[chaddyrovers]

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Clearly not enough to entice any of these players to actually sign these contracts. Strike whilst the iron is hot and we are doing well, money is and always will be the driving factor behind such issues so there is no excuse.

Well these players have been offered new improved contracts and they will be looking at their options. But with the financial reset that is happening at most championship clubs are they getting to get better offers out there. Also players will want to be playing regular aswell. 

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Just a continious spouting of how bad Covid is in India whilst half of our team runs down their contract and leaves us in the sheet. But at least Balaji "wrote" a letter saying that he cares. 

Waggott said last week that we can't keep over spending and we have reduce our dependence on Venkys money. You just need to look other clubs out there and alot of clubs are reduce their budgets out there. Over the past 18 months we have a financial reset in the championship where clubs are not paying silly transfer fees anymore. Our academy will continue to play 

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont see how the window can be seen as anything other than a failure, we havent improved the starting 11. We publically announced that we wanted a striker, we didnt get one. We signed 5 players and judging now, Clarkson looks like a little boy lost when he comes on, Van Hecke will be injured until the point when he will be one of 5 centre backs, so what was the point? Poveda has looked really poor in his only 2 starts, Edun is just a squad filler and Khadra looks the most promising of the 5 and he himself is a squad player. I hope at least some of the 5 grow into things and make significant contributions but we have just added to the numbers, it seems at this present moment.

Cos I am not judging the signings so far as they havent had many games to play in. I will judge them after 20 to 30 games in when they had time to play and settled into the club and how we play. 

I think our current starting 11 is top half quality and as Saturday proved we are playing well. Not sure we could improve our starting 11 unless we got a Maja in. 

We all knew what happened with Maja and but Brereton(7), Gallagher(3) and Dolan(2) have scored 12 gaols between them in 9 games. So I would say the lack of striker isn't a problem at the minute but we need a another striker in January.

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The improvement has come through players that were already contracted here. Ayala is (temporarily at least) fit and has improved our defence, as has Pickering who signed in January. Brereton has also matched last seasons goal tally and Travis is back fit and in much better shape. Dolan has also showed flashes in some games. These all have benefitted the team but none of them reflect the transfer window.

Firstly, the improvement has come from the Manager and the coaching staff by playing the players to a formation and tactics that suits them. Yes getting Ayala fit and ready to play regular has to be how we are training with him and the work that Liam Mason and Andrew Proctor have done with him. 

Well some of us said that Pickering would be good signing and just need time to settle in and get used to how we wanted to play. 

Brereton has step up to the plate and scored 7 goals already. I did tell you that he was capable of stepping up to the plate to score the goals. He has the talent and he is proving his worth. Dolan has been very good this season and yet again showing his worth to the team and for such a young player showing why he should be first team regular in this team. 

[Admiral Nelsen]

34 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Mowbray is performing above expectations so far and I hope that continues. Amidst the hysteria though I do have to remind myself that we dished out a few impressive beatings early on last season (Derby, Wycombe, Coventry) and then as time went by our good start ground to a halt and then the wheels came off and we ended up looking at a relegation scrap. So I won't be falling for that one again and won't be hailing a new era either. Same manager and same coaching staff, lets hope lessons have been learned and the same mistakes don't happen again.

Mowbray has form for these purple patches especially at the start of seasons. His career shows he struggles to maintain them - Middlesbrough and Coventry both got off to blistering starts and then collapsed.

 

An old boss of mine is a big Cov fan - I remember bumping into him in the L1 season and being a bit perplexed by him saying something like "I hope you enjoy being top by Christmas and not winning another game all season". Makes a lot more sense now!

 

My view is that he was obviously very lucky to keep his job after last season, but his record was still in the black until that point, even with our form being worryingly streaky at times. A good couple of months doesn't mean he's anywhere near deserving a new contract, but I'm happy to see it as him getting back some of the credit in the bank that he lost last year. If we're still up there in February, then maybe the conversation changes. 

[martonrover]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

Mowbray is performing above expectations so far and I hope that continues. Amidst the hysteria though I do have to remind myself that we dished out a few impressive beatings early on last season (Derby, Wycombe, Coventry) and then as time went by our good start ground to a halt and then the wheels came off and we ended up looking at a relegation scrap. So I won't be falling for that one again and won't be hailing a new era either. Same manager and same coaching staff, lets hope lessons have been learned and the same mistakes don't happen again.

Mowbray has form for these purple patches especially at the start of seasons. His career shows he struggles to maintain them - Middlesbrough and Coventry both got off to blistering starts and then collapsed.

Yes, it all feels a bit deja vu.

I'm amazed at the start, and long may it continue, but it is still very early days.

The test will come when we hit a little sticky patch, which is inevitable at some point.

That must not be allowed to degenerate into a trademark death spiral.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well these players have been offered new improved contracts and they will be looking at their options. But with the financial reset that is happening at most championship clubs are they getting to get better offers out there. Also players will want to be playing regular aswell. 

Waggott said last week that we can't keep over spending and we have reduce our dependence on Venkys money. You just need to look other clubs out there and alot of clubs are reduce their budgets out there. Over the past 18 months we have a financial reset in the championship where clubs are not paying silly transfer fees anymore. Our academy will continue to play 

Cos I am not judging the signings so far as they havent had many games to play in. I will judge them after 20 to 30 games in when they had time to play and settled into the club and how we play. 

I think our current starting 11 is top half quality and as Saturday proved we are playing well. Not sure we could improve our starting 11 unless we got a Maja in. 

We all knew what happened with Maja and but Brereton(7), Gallagher(3) and Dolan(2) have scored 12 gaols between them in 9 games. So I would say the lack of striker isn't a problem at the minute but we need a another striker in January.

Firstly, the improvement has come from the Manager and the coaching staff by playing the players to a formation and tactics that suits them. Yes getting Ayala fit and ready to play regular has to be how we are training with him and the work that Liam Mason and Andrew Proctor have done with him. 

Well some of us said that Pickering would be good signing and just need time to settle in and get used to how we wanted to play. 

Brereton has step up to the plate and scored 7 goals already. I did tell you that he was capable of stepping up to the plate to score the goals. He has the talent and he is proving his worth. Dolan has been very good this season and yet again showing his worth to the team and for such a young player showing why he should be first team regular in this team. 

Of course we should look to become as self sustainable as possible. The thing you repeatedly fail to grasp is that allowing a series of key assets with financial value to leave on frees rather than for frees flies very much in the face of that. Plus the players would need replacing which would cost money anyway, if we became solely reliant on academy graduates to fill every gap, eventually we will not be competitive and succumb to relegation. Even if 3 contracts were funded by the sale of the 4th player of those running down their deals, that would be fine. Not renewing these contracts is illogical in every way, including financial. Trying to save pennies in the short term is just removing the potential for much bigger fees in the long run.

A bit of needless and potentially premature smugness at the bottom, I never said that Pickering wouldn't be a good signing, like you I had never seen him play last season. His first few games, I was far from on my own in thinking that he looked shaky, thankfully he now looks to be settling in nicely. Let's not get too giddy about Ayala's fitness too soon, he was struggling at the end on Saturday, his quality is undoubted but we need more than 9 appearances to suggest that the fitness work has been remarkable, perhaps the key has simply been getting a pre season in. And Brereton in his first 3 seasons couldn't have looked any less of a goalscorer so his 7 goals have been somewhat against any previous evidence.

The window was crap, we failed to fill our main vacancy

[JohnGo]

2 hours ago, roverandout said:

Ffp ffp Ffp. Why are there no fans? Ffp. Why is Mowbray useless? Ffp. Why is the pitch so bad? Ffp

That’s a bit flippant.FFP affects how much we can spend on players salaries (first team only). It has no affect on the others. Mowbray was useless last season. We’ll see what this one brings. Lost fans should come and see what they’re missing. The pitch looks good to me and any infrastructure is excluded from FFP. I hope this clarifies the position we are in. Maggot out.