Tony Mowbray Discussion

[47er]

1 hour ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

An old boss of mine is a big Cov fan - I remember bumping into him in the L1 season and being a bit perplexed by him saying something like "I hope you enjoy being top by Christmas and not winning another game all season". Makes a lot more sense now!

 

My view is that he was obviously very lucky to keep his job after last season, but his record was still in the black until that point, even with our form being worryingly streaky at times. A good couple of months doesn't mean he's anywhere near deserving a new contract, but I'm happy to see it as him getting back some of the credit in the bank that he lost last year. If we're still up there in February, then maybe the conversation changes. 

He has been a disaster in many ways. So far this season though, things are much better on the playing field at least. I think he has had to play more youngsters than he would like, but (surprise!) they've been up to it.

Off the playing field, its  a pity that Waggot doesn't get that if you increase the prices you reduce the attendance. So, sadly, there are fewer fans to see it. The walk-on price of a ticket is disgraceful.

So much wrong at our club but at least now we can enjoy some success. I was going to add "while it lasts" but I've been gloomy enough for too long! 

 

[chaddyrovers]

24 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Of course we should look to become as self sustainable as possible. The thing you repeatedly fail to grasp is that allowing a series of key assets with financial value to leave on frees rather than for frees flies very much in the face of that.

So would you had sold Nyambe, Rothwell, Brereton and Lenihan this summer then? 

Btw, I haven't failed to grasp anything thanks. 

25 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Plus the players would need replacing which would cost money anyway, if we became solely reliant on academy graduates to fill every gap, eventually we will not be competitive and succumb to relegation. Even if 3 contracts were funded by the sale of the 4th player of those running down their deals, that would be fine. Not renewing these contracts is illogical in every way, including financial. Trying to save pennies in the short term is just removing the potential for much bigger fees in the long run.

Like I have said that they players have been offered new improved contracts. So its with the players and their agents

I haven't said we have to become solely reliant on academy graduates but bringing through academy players will be major part of any future player strategy. 

32 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

A bit of needless and potentially premature smugness at the bottom, I never said that Pickering wouldn't be a good signing, like you I had never seen him play last season. His first few games, I was far from on my own in thinking that he looked shaky, thankfully he now looks to be settling in nicely.

But you are far too quick to judge and failed to realise that some players need time to settled in. I've seen you do it time after time with different players. 

34 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Let's not get too giddy about Ayala's fitness too soon, he was struggling at the end on Saturday, his quality is undoubted but we need more than 9 appearances to suggest that the fitness work has been remarkable, perhaps the key has simply been getting a pre season in.

Maybe realised that last season pre season was far too short and a proper year at the club working under our fitness coach and physio has done him a world of good. 

34 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

And Brereton in his first 3 seasons couldn't have looked any less of a goalscorer so his 7 goals have been somewhat against any previous evidence.

He was good and performance well last season but he is far more confident this season than previous season. But we signed him cos of his potential and sadly its took over 2 years for us to see it. But He was been very good this season and scoring goals now. 7 goals. Do you reckon he will 20 goals this season now?

34 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The window was crap, we failed to fill our main vacancy

Like I did previous you are far too quick to judge. I will look to judge each player after they have played a few more games. Far too early to judge them in my opinion. 

You know what happened with Maja transfer. 

[roversfan99]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

So would you had sold Nyambe, Rothwell, Brereton and Lenihan this summer then? 

Btw, I haven't failed to grasp anything thanks. 

Like I have said that they players have been offered new improved contracts. So its with the players and their agents

I haven't said we have to become solely reliant on academy graduates but bringing through academy players will be major part of any future player strategy. 

But you are far too quick to judge and failed to realise that some players need time to settled in. I've seen you do it time after time with different players. 

Maybe realised that last season pre season was far too short and a proper year at the club working under our fitness coach and physio has done him a world of good. 

He was good and performance well last season but he is far more confident this season than previous season. But we signed him cos of his potential and sadly its took over 2 years for us to see it. But He was been very good this season and scoring goals now. 7 goals. Do you reckon he will 20 goals this season now?

Like I did previous you are far too quick to judge. I will look to judge each player after they have played a few more games. Far too early to judge them in my opinion. 

You know what happened with Maja transfer. 

We all judge what happens on a game by game basis, you included. I didn't say that Pickering was shit, I didn't write him off or anything like that. I said he looked a bit shaky, not Bell/Douglas shaky, but shaky nonetheless and others agreed, in fact I qualified it by saying that it was early days. It was IMO a fair analysis of his performances within those relevant match threads. Since, he has improved and I have praised him.

Regarding those players, there is a small element of speculation within all of our own opinions without knowing their current contracts and the offers put to them, of that I would concede. But from everything from Mowbray and Waggott, the issues are financial. All 4 have the right to see themselves towards the top of our wage structure, our captain, our main goalscorer with Dack out, and 2 players who play every week and have accumulated plenty of first team appearances between them. Rothwell signed from Oxford as a squad player, and Nyambe signed after relegation, they wont be at the top of our wage hierarchy, so surely a decent rise is justified. As long as they don't want silly wages beyond our top earner, and it would seem a jump to suggest that they would, it would make sense to give them those deals, maybe even a release clause to, and then they can grow, be sold and then some of that can be banked and some can be reinvested as Mowbray correctly has identified is the way to be run. Financially, new deals in the long run will earn us money, not cost us money. We aren't run like a normal club though.

If there was no sign of any of them signing going back to the summer, then yes, sales should perhaps have been seriously considered, although that would imply that a percentage would be reinvested in the way that healthy clubs work, but Venkys are seemingly unwilling at the moment to allow that, which will eventually render us uncompetitive unless that is relaxed.

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We all judge what happens on a game by game basis, you included. I didn't say that Pickering was shit, I didn't write him off or anything like that. I said he looked a bit shaky, not Bell/Douglas shaky, but shaky nonetheless and others agreed, in fact I qualified it by saying that it was early days. It was IMO a fair analysis of his performances within those relevant match threads. Since, he has improved and I have praised him.

Yes I judge their performance whilst realising any new signing will need time and patience to settle in. I said Poveda shouldn't have started the Barnsley cos he didn't fit enough and the reason why his performance was so poor. 

I think Pickering has been fine since start of the season and has improved defensive and looks much better than Bell or Douglas ever did here. 

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Regarding those players, there is a small element of speculation within all of our own opinions without knowing their current contracts and the offers put to them, of that I would concede. But from everything from Mowbray and Waggott, the issues are financial. All 4 have the right to see themselves towards the top of our wage structure, our captain, our main goalscorer with Dack out, and 2 players who play every week and have accumulated plenty of first team appearances between them. Rothwell signed from Oxford as a squad player, and Nyambe signed after relegation, they wont be at the top of our wage hierarchy, so surely a decent rise is justified. As long as they don't want silly wages beyond our top earner, and it would seem a jump to suggest that they would, it would make sense to give them those deals, maybe even a release clause to, and then they can grow, be sold and then some of that can be banked and some can be reinvested as Mowbray correctly has identified is the way to be run. Financially, new deals in the long run will earn us money, not cost us money. We aren't run like a normal club though.

 

I think 3 out of the 4 players will re sign here before the end of the season. 

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If there was no sign of any of them signing going back to the summer, then yes, sales should perhaps have been seriously considered, although that would imply that a percentage would be reinvested in the way that healthy clubs work, but Venkys are seemingly unwilling at the moment to allow that, which will eventually render us uncompetitive unless that is relaxed.

You keep blaming Venkys for the lack of investment when its the FFP rules that is limited it. I'm not sure you really understand FFP and hows it works..

[roversfan99]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes I judge their performance whilst realising any new signing will need time and patience to settle in. I said Poveda shouldn't have started the Barnsley cos he didn't fit enough and the reason why his performance was so poor. 

I think Pickering has been fine since start of the season and has improved defensive and looks much better than Bell or Douglas ever did here. 

 

I think 3 out of the 4 players will re sign here before the end of the season. 

You keep blaming Venkys for the lack of investment when its the FFP rules that is limited it. I'm not sure you really understand FFP and hows it works..

I am well aware and I am also aware that it is not an excuse for everything that Venkys fail to do (taking over from being "badly advised") but thanks for the patronising undertones all the same.

[chaddyrovers]

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I am well aware and I am also aware that it is not an excuse for everything that Venkys fail to do (taking over from being "badly advised") but thanks for the patronising undertones all the same.

well you don't post like you know what the FFP rules and that we can only lose 39 million pounds over 3 season which we are on the board line off breaking them. Thats why we didn't overspend this season. Next season will allow us to spend cos we will lose that first season of where we spent 9 to 10 million pounds on players. 

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, JohnGo said:

That’s a bit flippant.FFP affects how much we can spend on players salaries (first team only). It has no affect on the others. Mowbray was useless last season. We’ll see what this one brings. Lost fans should come and see what they’re missing. The pitch looks good to me and any infrastructure is excluded from FFP. I hope this clarifies the position we are in. Maggot out.

Just making a point. Ffp

[JacknOry]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

So would you had sold Nyambe, Rothwell, Brereton and Lenihan this summer then? 

Btw, I haven't failed to grasp anything thanks. 

Like I have said that they players have been offered new improved contracts. So its with the players and their agents

I haven't said we have to become solely reliant on academy graduates but bringing through academy players will be major part of any future player strategy. 

But you are far too quick to judge and failed to realise that some players need time to settled in. I've seen you do it time after time with different players. 

Maybe realised that last season pre season was far too short and a proper year at the club working under our fitness coach and physio has done him a world of good. 

He was good and performance well last season but he is far more confident this season than previous season. But we signed him cos of his potential and sadly its took over 2 years for us to see it. But He was been very good this season and scoring goals now. 7 goals. Do you reckon he will 20 goals this season now?

Like I did previous you are far too quick to judge. I will look to judge each player after they have played a few more games. Far too early to judge them in my opinion. 

You know what happened with Maja transfer. 

You have no idea if they are 'improved' contracts. Might be same wedge again for all you know. For whatever reason, the contracts are not good enough for the players to sign.

[DeeCee]

If it ain't broke don't fix it but Tinker Tony will more than likely put a spanner in the works at some point.

[RoversClitheroe]

34 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

If it ain't broke don't fix it but Tinker Tony will more than likely put a spanner in the works at some point.

Definitely, this is the manager who managed to only win 2 games in 17 with a slightly better team

[JohnGo]

4 hours ago, roverandout said:

Just making a point. Ffp

It’s FFP LOL

[Paul Mani]

On 26/09/2021 at 14:59, MarkBRFC said:

If you are walking out feeling empty after winning games I would say that says more about you than Big Sam's style of football.

I loved that 9-10 season, only 3 home defeats all season, including beating Arsenal and drawing with the other 3 of of the "big 4", good away wins at Bolton and Burnley, plus a league Cup Semi final run.

Night and day to anything we have experienced since.

Whether it says something about me or not, I can safely say that no other manager has made me feel frustrated in victory like Allardyce did. I’m not on my own, ask the fans of the other clubs he’s managed and you’ll hear similar rumblings.

I’m glad you enjoyed his style so much. It wouldn’t do for us all to be the same and it saved you from the feeling of being trapped in the most turgid brand of football ever.

I love winning too…my whole professional existence is based on it. But I go to the match to see my team win playing entertaining football. I’m no Mowbray fan but give me ‘that’ performance / entertainment on a Saturday (vs Cardiff) over anything Allardyce served up, any day of any week! 

[Wheelton Blue]

If anyone was under any illusion that Mowbray has somehow turned a corner, last night's capitulation should put paid to that.

The guy will never be able to consistently win football matches. He's his own worst enemy.

[RV Blue]

That last night was the one of the worst displays of managerial ineptitude I’ve witnessed. What on earth was the formation and why did he seemingly throw away a draw when it was clear at 2-2 that we were incredibly lucky to still be in the game? He was going to make a double/triple substitution and for some reason beyond me only made one, and that one was Rothwell (one of two in midfield) for Poveda?!? They had two really good chances to score before he had chance to make the remaining substitutions and he didn’t think to shore it up, he thought that the time called for two lightweight loanees with virtually no first team experience. Absolutely moronic.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, RV Blue said:

That last night was the one of the worst displays of managerial ineptitude I’ve witnessed. What on earth was the formation and why did he seemingly throw away a draw when it was clear at 2-2 that we were incredibly lucky to still be in the game? 

Really? The formation was 4-2-3-1 formation. Until Nyambe's injury then we went 3 at the back with wing backs and 3 up front. 

The game changed when Rothwell went off injured. 

2 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

If anyone was under any illusion that Mowbray has somehow turned a corner, last night's capitulation should put paid to that

I think your reaction is well OTT in my.opinion. 

2 losses in 10 matches. 16 points on the point board and we are still 6th. 

[Wheelton Blue]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think your reaction is well OTT in my.opinion. 

2 losses in 10 matches. 16 points on the point board and we are still 6th. 

Thank goodness we do have 16 points, cos we all know what happens with Mowbray.

He screwed that game up last night with his substitutions. At 2-2, and with Rothwell going off injured, he should have shored up the defence and seen the game out for a draw. Job done.

Instead, what we witnessed was a debacle of substitutions, whereby we totally lost all control and basically threw the game.

He never changes Chaddy and that's why we'll never amount to anything under his watch.

[booth]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Really? The formation was 4-2-3-1 formation. Until Nyambe's injury then we went 3 at the back with wing backs and 3 up front. 

The game changed when Rothwell went off injured. 

I think your reaction is well OTT in my.opinion. 

2 losses in 10 matches. 16 points on the point board and we are still 6th. 

He screwed up the subs, again. You're acting like this is a new thing. Poveda, Clarkson and Magloire shouldn't have been on the bench never mind the pitch.
 
3 at the back with wingbacks - so that's 5 at the back with 3 forwards Chaddy. That's madness when we're trying to hang on.

Edited September 29, 2021 by booth

[RV Blue]

1 hour ago, booth said:

He screwed up the subs, again. You're acting like this is a new thing. Poveda, Clarkson and Magloire shouldn't have been on the bench never mind the pitch.
 
3 at the back with wingbacks - so that's 5 at the back with 3 forwards Chaddy. That's madness when we're trying to hang on.

And two out of the two wingbacks aren’t wingbacks, genius.

[booth]

24 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

And two out of the two wingbacks aren’t wingbacks, genius.

It beggars belief how anyone can say that Mowbray got it right. It was wrong and then some. The game had already changed when Rothwell came off, but at that point the manager went full Mowbray.

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

Thank goodness we do have 16 points, cos we all know what happens with Mowbray.

He screwed that game up last night with his substitutions. At 2-2, and with Rothwell going off injured, he should have shored up the defence and seen the game out for a draw. Job done.

Instead, what we witnessed was a debacle of substitutions, whereby we totally lost all control and basically threw the game.

He never changes Chaddy and that's why we'll never amount to anything under his watch.

Well its down to Mowbray and Players why we have 16 points already on the board and how we have been playing including Cardiff 5-1. 

Who would you have bought on to shored up the defence barring in mind that Maglorie was already on? We were already playing 3 at the back and that was from when Nyambe went off in the first half when it was nil nil. 

We lost the game when Rothwell went off and his impact in the game was excellent and his driving runs at the defence from the deeper midfield area is why I like him playing there. 

[Wheelton Blue]

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well its down to Mowbray and Players why we have 16 points already on the board and how we have been playing including Cardiff 5-1. 

That is true Chaddy.

However, it's also down to Mowbray as to why there wasn't anyone to bring on to shore up the defence; why he changed formation due to one player (Nyambe) going off; why he inexplicably brought on 3 lightweights when we were up against it; and hence why we threw the game last night.

This is my beef with him. He always finds a way of cocking it up.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Wheelton Blue

[chaddyrovers]

8 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

That is true Chaddy.

However, it's also down to Mowbray as to why there wasn't anyone to bring on to shore up the defence; why he changed formation due to one player (Nyambe) going off; why he inexplicably brought on 3 lightweights when we were up against it; and hence why we threw the game last night.

This is my beef with him. He always finds a way of cocking it up.

so when Nyambe went off who would have brought on then? or when Rothwell went off?

Bring on Khadra and Poveda for Dolan and Gallagher was wrong? Not so sure by that. 

[Wheelton Blue]

12 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

so when Nyambe went off who would have brought on then? or when Rothwell went off?

Bring on Khadra and Poveda for Dolan and Gallagher was wrong? Not so sure by that. 

The fact that there was noone - other than Magloire - to replace Nyambe is Mowbray all over! That's the point!!!!!

As for the 3 subs, they are as weak as p*ss and the opposite of what was needed to shore everything up. Again, the fact that there was no-one else to bring on, is 100% on Mowbray.

[booth]

15 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

so when Nyambe went off who would have brought on then? or when Rothwell went off?

Bring on Khadra and Poveda for Dolan and Gallagher was wrong? Not so sure by that. 

When Nyambe went off I'd have brought Pike on and kept the same shape.

Rothwell, I'd have brought Edun on.

Butterworth for Gallagher, Khadra for Dolan.

If you think bringing Poveda on was right then you need to see an optician.

[arbitro]

1 minute ago, Wheelton Blue said:

The fact that there was noone - other than Magloire - to replace Nyambe is Mowbray all over! That's the point!!!!!

As for the 3 subs, they are as weak as p*ss and the opposite of what was needed to shore everything up. Again, the fact that there was no-one else to bring on, is 100% on Mowbray.

Hayden Carter deputised admirably for Nyambe at right back earlier this season. Rather than change the formation he could have done that and Magloire could have slotted in alongside Ayala keeping a back four intact. And I think Magloire would have been more comfortable in a back four.