Tony Mowbray Discussion

[DE.]

24 minutes ago, Ulrich said:

I kinda feel that way about our relegation season, we had chances under TM to stay up.  Promotion was nice but I expected to win the league, but the big moments I will remember are 2 in 17 and 0-7.

In the relegation season a lot of damage had been done by the time Mowbray arrived, and honestly we were a bit unlucky to be relegated with 51 points. I've never held that against Mowbray. Automatic promotion from League 1 was fine by me. Would have been nice to win it and settling for 2nd showed something about Mowbray's personality imo, but there have been some big clubs stuck down there for a while now so I'm just happy we escaped at the first time of asking.

Since then it's just been... average. I've never had a sense we're building to something identifiable on the pitch or within the squad. This season has been a pleasant surprise but doesn't feel like it was part of some kind of masterplan. More like a combination of Mowbray being restricted by the squad available to him and the league arguably being the weakest in terms of quality than it has been for a number of years. I know it gets said every season but when you look at the teams between 4th and 18th this season it really does feel like everybody is at the same low bar of quality. It feels like any team that gets lucky on the injury front and gets some momentum behind them has a shot of top six this year.

[PeteJD13]

14 hours ago, rigger said:

Leg End

no you haven't he was compared to Ferguson and clough on facebook this weekend, when i questioned this i was told my hatred for mowbray knew no bounds!

[Wheelton Blue]

If I came across anybody comparing him to Cloughie, I'd simply refer them to the 'I believe in miracles' documentary on Netflix.

[rigger]

24 minutes ago, PeteJD13 said:

no you haven't he was compared to Ferguson and clough on facebook this weekend, when i questioned this i was told my hatred for mowbray knew no bounds!

Darren and Nigel ?

[rog of the rovers]

Mowbray's place in Rovers' history is assured with his promotion campaign of 2017/18.

Bob Crompton, Johnny Carey, Gordon Lee, Howard Kendall, Kenny Dalglish, Graeme Souness and Tony Mowbray the only Rovers managers to oversee promotion campaigns.

Lee, Kendall and Mowbray from Tier 3 to Tier 2

Crompton, Carey, Dalglish and Souness from Tier 2 to Tier 1

Being born in 1987 and a season ticket holder since 1992/93 I obviously don't remember the era of Bobby Saxton and Don Mackay. Data shows similar records with all three Saxton, Mackay and Mowbray, all around the 40% win rate, with around 200+ games managed over several seasons, primarily in the second tier.

Saxton 36% Win Rate

Mackay 39% Win Rate

Mowbray 41% Win Rate (36% at Tier 2 level)

For those who are old enough to remember the 1980s, how fair a comparison is

Mowbray v Saxton

and

Mowbray v Mackay

From numerous sources (friends, relatives etc) who remember the era, knew Rovers we a club without the preverbial pot to tinkle in, so Mowbray has maybe had more favourable circumstances? Although this season with the numerous outgoings and reliance on youth/loans maybe turned the tide?

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by rog of the rovers

[RoversClitheroe]

Can we please stop Mowbray is a legend are you bloody joking 😂

[Rogerb]

1 hour ago, rog of the rovers said:

Mowbray's place in Rovers' history is assured with his promotion campaign of 2017/18.a

Saxton 36% Win Rate

Mackay 39% Win Rate

Mowbray 41% Win Rate (36% at Tier 2 level)

For those who are old enough to remember the 1980s, how fair a comparison is

Mowbray v Saxton

and

Mowbray v Mackay

 

 

Both Saxton and Mackay had seasons where they over achieved. Cannot say that about Mowbray to date. The next six months may determine that.

[AllRoverAsia]

5 hours ago, Ulrich said:

TM & GB legends of Rovers?

Well I guess that it's good to start the week with a laugh 😂😂😂

LoL. That's how I took it too. Well that and the ramblings of FB wannabees.

[oldjamfan1]

2 hours ago, rog of the rovers said:

Mowbray's place in Rovers' history is assured with his promotion campaign of 2017/18.

Bob Crompton, Johnny Carey, Gordon Lee, Howard Kendall, Kenny Dalglish, Graeme Souness and Tony Mowbray the only Rovers managers to oversee promotion campaigns.

Lee, Kendall and Mowbray from Tier 3 to Tier 2

Crompton, Carey, Dalglish and Souness from Tier 2 to Tier 1

Being born in 1987 and a season ticket holder since 1992/93 I obviously don't remember the era of Bobby Saxton and Don Mackay. Data shows similar records with all three Saxton, Mackay and Mowbray, all around the 40% win rate, with around 200+ games managed over several seasons, primarily in the second tier.

Saxton 36% Win Rate

Mackay 39% Win Rate

Mowbray 41% Win Rate (36% at Tier 2 level)

For those who are old enough to remember the 1980s, how fair a comparison is

Mowbray v Saxton

and

Mowbray v Mackay

From numerous sources (friends, relatives etc) who remember the era, knew Rovers we a club without the preverbial pot to tinkle in, so Mowbray has maybe had more favourable circumstances? Although this season with the numerous outgoings and reliance on youth/loans maybe turned the tide?

 

I would say sacko is closer to Mowbray in style than the Don. Mainly in the sense of staying too loyal to certain players for too long. But Bobby could only dream of the resources that Mowbray has had at his disposal. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by oldjamfan1

[Armchair supporter supremo]

this is just absurd now. 

 

he is not and never will be a "rovers legend" 

To be a true legend its not just about results and league placings! You have to have a huge affinity with and unanimous respect of the entire fanbase and club and a huge passion to see us all succeed together. 

 

Mowbray barely cares about the club and fans(aside from those few that constantly blow smoke up his Behind) it's just another job to him. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Armchair supporter supremo

[tomphil]

The Don over the Mowb for me anyday in terms of the last 3 seasons.

[simongarnerisgod]

saxton,mackay and kendall were very good man managers,they got the best out of everyone,on a consistent basis,if the resources had been there to strengthen the squad when injuries and tiredness took their toll i`ve no doubt all three of them would have got us to the top division,tony is`nt in the same league as them imo

[Exiled in Toronto]

7 hours ago, DE. said:

In the relegation season a lot of damage had been done by the time Mowbray arrived, and honestly we were a bit unlucky to be relegated with 51 points. I've never held that against Mowbray. Automatic promotion from League 1 was fine by me. Would have been nice to win it and settling for 2nd showed something about Mowbray's personality imo, but there have been some big clubs stuck down there for a while now so I'm just happy we escaped at the first time of asking.

Since then it's just been... average. I've never had a sense we're building to something identifiable on the pitch or within the squad. This season has been a pleasant surprise but doesn't feel like it was part of some kind of masterplan. More like a combination of Mowbray being restricted by the squad available to him and the league arguably being the weakest in terms of quality than it has been for a number of years. I know it gets said every season but when you look at the teams between 4th and 18th this season it really does feel like everybody is at the same low bar of quality. It feels like any team that gets lucky on the injury front and gets some momentum behind them has a shot of top six this year.

It does indeed get said every season that this is/was the best chance because the quality of the league is so low, and yet 22 other managers will also fail to get promoted, which presumably also makes their failures more damning.

Also interesting to see the latest BRFCS reverse ferret happening elsewhere, where Mowbray, far from being in complete control of the club with no oversight whatsoever as we had been led to believe, turns out to have no power whatsoever as he was forced to get rid of his favourites and had no other choice but to play younger players!
 

[AllRoverAsia]

Under Saxton and over 5 seasons (81/2-85/6) in the Second Division we finished 10th, 11th, 6th, 5th, and 19th.

In 4 of those seasons no transfer fees were paid or received. A profit of 74k  was made in season 84/5

Under Mackay and over 5 seasons (86/7-90/91) in the Second Division we finished 12th, 5th, 5th, 5th and 19th.

During this period we won the FMC and fecked up at Palace.

Don was more active in the transfer market and and the Walker money arrived in Don's final season but with the benefit of hindsight was not spent very well.

Over the 5 seasons net transfer fees were -23k, -7k, +135K, +945k* and -2.24** million. (* Hendry, **Agnew, Livingstone, Dobson, Richardson, Mimms).

Frankly Bobby S, who is a hero of mine, did a great job with empty pockets and Don M. was superb for most of his stay.

Note how both were potted after a poor(ish) season.

Edited November 30, 2021 by AllRoverAsia

[Mattyblue]

Well if ‘legendary’ status is based on how bulletproof a manager is in the stands, then he has to be up there.

I can only think of Kenny (and maybe Hughes) in my time at Ewood that has had as much consistent, steadfast backing. Indeed, you literally cannot say a world against him with much of our fanbase… even after 7-0 home defeats.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Mattyblue

[DE.]

32 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

It does indeed get said every season that this is/was the best chance because the quality of the league is so low, and yet 22 other managers will also fail to get promoted, which presumably also makes their failures more damning.

To be fair just because it's said every season doesn't mean it wasn't true each of those years. I'd say there's a really good argument for it this year though. 

As for being a damning indictment of the other managers, as always it's dependent on a variety of factors including budget, injuries, etc. For some probably yes, for others probably not. Although I'd judge that more in terms of a top six finish than promotion. Top two spots are being increasingly monopolised by the parachute clubs and the playoffs is a lottery. 

[bazza]

As a "Mowbray Out" man I must admit that I'm almost beginning to sit on the fence.

I wish Tony all the best and I will be highly delighted if he continues to improve the team.

We'll see what happens.

[Upside Down]

12 hours ago, rog of the rovers said:

Mowbray's place in Rovers' history is assured with his promotion campaign of 2017/18.

Bob Crompton, Johnny Carey, Gordon Lee, Howard Kendall, Kenny Dalglish, Graeme Souness and Tony Mowbray the only Rovers managers to oversee promotion campaigns.

Lee, Kendall and Mowbray from Tier 3 to Tier 2

Crompton, Carey, Dalglish and Souness from Tier 2 to Tier 1

Being born in 1987 and a season ticket holder since 1992/93 I obviously don't remember the era of Bobby Saxton and Don Mackay. Data shows similar records with all three Saxton, Mackay and Mowbray, all around the 40% win rate, with around 200+ games managed over several seasons, primarily in the second tier.

Saxton 36% Win Rate

Mackay 39% Win Rate

Mowbray 41% Win Rate (36% at Tier 2 level)

For those who are old enough to remember the 1980s, how fair a comparison is

Mowbray v Saxton

and

Mowbray v Mackay

From numerous sources (friends, relatives etc) who remember the era, knew Rovers we a club without the preverbial pot to tinkle in, so Mowbray has maybe had more favourable circumstances? Although this season with the numerous outgoings and reliance on youth/loans maybe turned the tide?

 

The club behind the scenes wasn't quite the post apocalyptic wasteland that it is today.

I think a lot of the Tony Mowbray bashing is people who are taking out other frustrations they have with the club on the manager. 

[RevidgeBlue]

17 hours ago, rog of the rovers said:

Mowbray's place in Rovers' history is assured with his promotion campaign of 2017/18.

Bob Crompton, Johnny Carey, Gordon Lee, Howard Kendall, Kenny Dalglish, Graeme Souness and Tony Mowbray the only Rovers managers to oversee promotion campaigns.

Lee, Kendall and Mowbray from Tier 3 to Tier 2

Crompton, Carey, Dalglish and Souness from Tier 2 to Tier 1

Being born in 1987 and a season ticket holder since 1992/93 I obviously don't remember the era of Bobby Saxton and Don Mackay. Data shows similar records with all three Saxton, Mackay and Mowbray, all around the 40% win rate, with around 200+ games managed over several seasons, primarily in the second tier.

Saxton 36% Win Rate

Mackay 39% Win Rate

Mowbray 41% Win Rate (36% at Tier 2 level)

For those who are old enough to remember the 1980s, how fair a comparison is

Mowbray v Saxton

and

Mowbray v Mackay

From numerous sources (friends, relatives etc) who remember the era, knew Rovers we a club without the preverbial pot to tinkle in, so Mowbray has maybe had more favourable circumstances? Although this season with the numerous outgoings and reliance on youth/loans maybe turned the tide?

 

See, this is the nub of the issue. 

Mowbray isn't in the same stratosphere as certain managers we have had pre Jack like Furphy, Lee and Kendall.

The most accurate comparisons are probably Saxton v Mowbray and Mackay v Mowbray.

Mackay's funding was pretty limited apart from the period after Jack took over. And whilst I wasn't a particular fan of Saxton there's no doubt he had to oversee a period when we genuinely didn't have a pot to piss in, I recall a story doing the rounds in the mid 80's that consideration was being given to flogging the table in the Boardroom to raise a few quid.

Without looking at their respective performances in detail I'd say off the top of my head Mowbray has delivered worse results than the penniless Saxton on a champagne budget and way way worse performance than Mackay who with relatively less backing delivered several back to back play off finishes.

At the end of the day Mowbray is an extremely poor manager who has carved a lucrative career in coaching out of the back of a decent playing career. He's had barely any success anywhere he's been apart from West Brom and a heavily funded promotion campaign  here and it has been more common for his managerial stints to end in disaster and the sack within a relatively short space of time.

Has also been exceptionally fortunate here to survive three very disappointing seasons,  a near record 17 game losing run and a Club record home defeat despite substantial backing.

In summary a poor man's Saxton and a very poor man's Mackay. All that said we obviously all hope that a miracle occurs and we somehow scrape up via the playoffs this season with a hungry, talented but threadbare young squad.

[RevidgeBlue]

12 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Also interesting to see the latest BRFCS reverse ferret happening elsewhere, where Mowbray, far from being in complete control of the club with no oversight whatsoever as we had been led to believe, turns out to have no power whatsoever as he was forced to get rid of his favourites and had no other choice but to play younger players!
 

That's not quite right is it, he was allowed free rein to stockpile players and bring the Club to it's knees by our over indulgent owners and was only halted in his tracks by falling foul of the FFP regulations.

Had those not existed, there's nothing to suggest the situation wouldn't have continued unabated.

[Mashed Potatoes]

38 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

See, this is the nub of the issue. 

Mowbray isn't in the same stratosphere as certain managers we have had pre Jack like Furphy, Lee and Kendall.

The most accurate comparisons are probably Saxton v Mowbray and Mackay v Mowbray.

Mackay's funding was pretty limited apart from the period after Jack took over. And whilst I wasn't a particular fan of Saxton there's no doubt he had to oversee a period when we genuinely didn't have a pot to piss in, I recall a story doing the rounds in the mid 80's that consideration was being given to flogging the table in the Boardroom to raise a few quid.

Without looking at their respective performances in detail I'd say off the top of my head Mowbray has delivered worse results than the penniless Saxton on a champagne budget and way way worse performance than Mackay who with relatively less backing delivered several back to back play off finishes.

At the end of the day Mowbray is an extremely poor manager who has carved a lucrative career in coaching out of the back of a decent playing career. He's had barely any success anywhere he's been apart from West Brom and a heavily funded promotion campaign  here and it has been more common for his managerial stints to end in disaster and the sack within a relatively short space of time.

Has also been exceptionally fortunate here to survive three very disappointing seasons,  a near record 17 game losing run and a Club record home defeat despite substantial backing.

In summary a poor man's Saxton and a very poor man's Mackay. All that said we obviously all hope that a miracle occurs and we somehow scrape up via the playoffs this season with a hungry, talented but threadbare young squad.

I missed the "near record 17 game losing run". When was that ?

More generally, Mowbray took over as manager when we were in the relegation zone and we are now in a play off position. There is simply no way any reasonable person would conclude that he "is an extremely poor manager".

[Sparks Rover]

35 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I missed the "near record 17 game losing run". When was that ?

More generally, Mowbray took over as manager when we were in the relegation zone and we are now in a play off position. There is simply no way any reasonable person would conclude that he "is an extremely poor manager".

Mogadon Out!

 

[Admiral Nelsen]

45 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

See, this is the nub of the issue. 

Mowbray isn't in the same stratosphere as certain managers we have had pre Jack like Furphy, Lee and Kendall.

The most accurate comparisons are probably Saxton v Mowbray and Mackay v Mowbray.

Mackay's funding was pretty limited apart from the period after Jack took over. And whilst I wasn't a particular fan of Saxton there's no doubt he had to oversee a period when we genuinely didn't have a pot to piss in, I recall a story doing the rounds in the mid 80's that consideration was being given to flogging the table in the Boardroom to raise a few quid.

Without looking at their respective performances in detail I'd say off the top of my head Mowbray has delivered worse results than the penniless Saxton on a champagne budget and way way worse performance than Mackay who with relatively less backing delivered several back to back play off finishes.

At the end of the day Mowbray is an extremely poor manager who has carved a lucrative career in coaching out of the back of a decent playing career. He's had barely any success anywhere he's been apart from West Brom and a heavily funded promotion campaign  here and it has been more common for his managerial stints to end in disaster and the sack within a relatively short space of time.

Has also been exceptionally fortunate here to survive three very disappointing seasons,  a near record 17 game losing run and a Club record home defeat despite substantial backing.

In summary a poor man's Saxton and a very poor man's Mackay. All that said we obviously all hope that a miracle occurs and we somehow scrape up via the playoffs this season with a hungry, talented but threadbare young squad.

 

Game of opinions, and I'm not under any illusions about Mowbray as a manager, but to be honest I find statements like he's an 'extremely poor manager' hard to take seriously. Somewhere near 50% of managers will never get another post after they lose their first job. Mowbray has managed a career over 15 years, mostly at a good level, and over 700 games. You don't get that sort of longevity without having something to offer, or without at least a half-decent body of work to fall back on.

 

That's also a very one sided view of the rest of his career. Just like at Rovers, his career elsewhere has been mixed, with very decent achievements alongside some very disappointing spells.  He won manager of the year with Hibs, where he never finished lower than fourth. The promotion season at West Brom (a season after reaching the play off final) was well funded to a point, but only because they were forced into a fire sale of most of their top earners from the previous year. He rebuilt a squad in 12 months and finished top, which was a long way from being a foregone conclusion. He failed badly at Celtic, and only had a bright start before the wheels fell off at Cov, but had two impressive years at Boro before hitting a bad run, and finished with a strong win %.

[47er]

20 hours ago, rog of the rovers said:

Being born in 1987 and a season ticket holder since 1992/93

Glory Hunter!

[Wheelton Blue]

Personally, I don't care what Mowbray did or didn't achieve at previous clubs.

It's what he does for Blackburn Rovers which matters for me. His last 3 finishes of 15th, 11th, 15th suggest to me that he's mediocre at best.

The fact that we're currently in 4th place though is fantastic, something for which he should be applauded and long may it continue. However, let's not overstate what he's achieved here; we've been in a playoff position for 3 days. It's where we finish at season end that should determine how he is judged.