Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yes, we give it our best shot and more that day. We were under the cosh most of the game but we never took a backward step. That's all I ask really. How long ago is that though ?

I guess that was my point lol

[oldjamfan1]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That's an interesting point. In your opinion, or that of anybody else,  when did we last clearly overachieve in a game ?

Maybe Wigan at home last season, but they are few and far between.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, toogs said:

You could argue there's no difficult one's either.

 

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

They're as easy or as hard as you make them. If you're going to get out enthused most of the time they're all going to be hard.

Lads, it is known to be one of the most competitive leagues in world football. Leeds or WBA could lose to the bottom club next week and nobody would be surprised. 

We are doing badly and there are big question marks over the manager, ye don't need to downplay the competitiveness of the league. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

28 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

Lads, it is known to be one of the most competitive leagues in world football. Leeds or WBA could lose to the bottom club next week and nobody would be surprised. 

We are doing badly and there are big question marks over the manager, ye don't need to downplay the competitiveness of the league. 

On paper the next 4 are far more winnable than the last 4, including 3 of them being at home.

Failure to get 9 points minimum would probably see us bottom 3, ye don't need to downplay the expectations of Rovers playing crap sides at home.

[Wegerleswiggle]

Goal fest on Saturday!!! I reckon a 7 goal thriller that we lose in the 92nd minute.

[m1st]

6 hours ago, Wegerleswiggle said:

Goal fest on Saturday!!! I reckon a 7 goal thriller that we lose in the 92nd minute.

Oh no-o-o, Wegerleswiggle; we can't have that!!

Not after I've confessed to leaving on 75 mins!!?

[Oldgregg86]

I know we got beat but the united game under Coyle. I was certainly shocked how well we played

[Wegerleswiggle]

1 hour ago, m1st said:

Oh no-o-o, Wegerleswiggle; we can't have that!!

Not after I've confessed to leaving on 75 mins!!?

Ok, sorry. 3-3 at halftime and Barnsley hit a 74th minute winner, that sparks a mass exodus on 75 mins.?

[tomphil]

Simon Garner always used to score against Barnsley, where is he ?

If he can't turn up to be shoved right wing then how about we wheel out this era's reliable goalscorer instead, a certain D Graham esq and stop pissing about.

[m1st]

15 hours ago, Wegerleswiggle said:

Ok, sorry. 3-3 at halftime and Barnsley hit a 74th minute winner, that sparks a mass exodus on 75 mins.?

Very thoughtful of you, Ww; but it'd mean I'd be further back in the queue at the corner of Kidder Street for the bus to Bolton!?

[m1st]

By the way, Pocchetino's available at the moment, isn't he?!?? 

Just saying!?

[Wegerleswiggle]

56 minutes ago, m1st said:

Very thoughtful of you, Ww; but it'd mean I'd be further back in the queue at the corner of Kidder Street for the bus to Bolton!?

No pleasing some people! ?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

18 hours ago, m1st said:

By the way, Pocchetino's available at the moment, isn't he?!?? 

Just saying!?

My paper's full of him at the moment. There's an interesting article about management with a revealing quote from Gordon Strachan which I'll paraphrase -   " Football operates in cycles. The third year is fatal, the moment when the critical mass of players tire of the techniques and idiosyncrasies of their manager, when one or the other has to change ".  Ring any bells Tony ?

Previously in the article it mentioned Liverpool losing to Watford in the FA cup. Bill Shankly went into the dressing room after the game and told 5 of his long established stars that they were finished and he'd be moving them out and new blood would be brought in.

He said " It had to be done and if I didn't do it I'd be shirking my obligations ". The players changed but his methods did not - " We played to our strengths. We pressured everybody and we made them run. "

How times have changed.

[Bigdoggsteel]

On 19/11/2019 at 15:44, OldEwoodBlue said:

On paper the next 4 are far more winnable than the last 4, including 3 of them being at home.

Failure to get 9 points minimum would probably see us bottom 3, ye don't need to downplay the expectations of Rovers playing crap sides at home.

We should be winning it and hopefully we get at least 9 points in the next 4 games, but we won't be in relegation if we don't. Boro won't get more points than us and we are 7 points clear of Stoke. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

We should be winning it and hopefully we get at least 9 points in the next 4 games, but we won't be in relegation if we don't. Boro won't get more points than us and we are 7 points clear of Stoke. 

cool

everything fine and dandy then.

?

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

cool

everything fine and dandy then.

?

If we get 9 points it will be, but I wouldn't put the house on it! 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

If we get 9 points it will be, but I wouldn't put the house on it! 

You can relax when we've got to 50 points. Until then - hold on to your hat.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

My paper's full of him at the moment. There's an interesting article about management with a revealing quote from Gordon Strachan which I'll paraphrase -   " Football operates in cycles. The third year is fatal, the moment when the critical mass of players tire of the techniques and idiosyncrasies of their manager, when one or the other has to change ".  Ring any bells Tony ?

Previously in the article it mentioned Liverpool losing to Watford in the FA cup. Bill Shankly went into the dressing room after the game and told 5 of his long established stars that they were finished and he'd be moving them out and new blood would be brought in.

He said " It had to be done and if I didn't do it I'd be shirking my obligations ". The players changed but his methods did not - " We played to our strengths. We pressured everybody and we made them run. "

How times have changed.

Great point about the third year you see it so many times but i don't think it's one of footballs great unsolved mysteries as a lot of managers bring it on themselves.

Either that or there is a certain amount of winging it before hand and sometimes that's enough or they just get found out after filling clubs with their mates their players and their system. They don't have the nous to change and the players they've brought in along the way are the wrong ones.

In our case i think there is also a touch of second season syndrome, we over achieved early on last season then got sussed out and took a nosedive before balancing out.  This season sides know what we are about and the so called strengthening hasn't paid dividends yet, the defence is the same standard and the approach to games is often tepid.

What we are seeing this season is just classic bog standard team bog standard manager, we are beatable but if you don't get stuck in we'll beat you. There's a big pack like that they make up the majority of the division although a lot don't have a Dack, a Graham, a 5 million pound striker and a 7 million pound sub. Or a Holtby !

That's why you have to get the best out of what you have week in week out or come up with something a bit different in order to get ahead of that pack. Until then we'll remain bog standard.

Edited November 21, 2019 by tomphil

[Blue blood]

4 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

My paper's full of him at the moment. There's an interesting article about management with a revealing quote from Gordon Strachan which I'll paraphrase -   " Football operates in cycles. The third year is fatal, the moment when the critical mass of players tire of the techniques and idiosyncrasies of their manager, when one or the other has to change ".  Ring any bells Tony ?

Previously in the article it mentioned Liverpool losing to Watford in the FA cup. Bill Shankly went into the dressing room after the game and told 5 of his long established stars that they were finished and he'd be moving them out and new blood would be brought in.

He said " It had to be done and if I didn't do it I'd be shirking my obligations ". The players changed but his methods did not - " We played to our strengths. We pressured everybody and we made them run. "

How times have changed.

Interesting. I think Hughes and Souness's third seasons were both successes, although the latter nosedived in the fourth. Overall though, I agree with the principle.

I think our current situation is much worse than the standard 3 season cycle as we nosedived for half a year last season too. Also said school of thought doesn't fill me with much confidence because:

1) There has been a change in style (although cannot comment on training etc. although imagine the change of style might necessitate this) and yet despite changing styles we are actually worse.

2) Changing the players - isn't massively happening. Our back line is much the same, we're still reliant on Dack and Graham, even Gallagher a newish signing isn't that new (or that good, but I digress...) So the change isn't massively happening. That said, the changes that are made sees TM at best have a 50:50 success rate - and that is being kind Even should the change come to the players you worry about the quality we would get.

 

[tomphil]

When you keep adding quality in the right areas and you base it on a reliable keeper and decent defense you can buck the trend even if there isn't massive funds available.  When you have a scattergun approach with god knows how many people allowed to bring players in for the sake of it. Or you've virtually no funds or are a selling club then it's unlikey to work year on year.

[OldEwoodBlue]

30 minutes ago, tomphil said:

When you keep adding quality in the right areas and you base it on a reliable keeper and decent defense you can buck the trend even if there isn't massive funds available.  When you have a scattergun approach with god knows how many people allowed to bring players in for the sake of it. Or you've virtually no funds or are a selling club then it's unlikey to work year on year.

When you can't afford a reliable keeper or decent defender because you are giving sneaky contracts to Ben Gladwin instead.

[tomphil]

Just now, OldEwoodBlue said:

When you can't afford a reliable keeper or decent defender because you are giving sneaky contracts to Ben Gladwin instead.

End of the year then assessed ...... ?

[JHRover]

Looking forward to watching us 'trying' to 'impose ourselves' at home on a Barnsley side bottom of the league.

[simongarnerisgod]

week after week we see the same players make the same mistakes,mowbray has`nt got the minerals to drop them or ship them out,for someone who was a trenchant defender who would head bricks to stop a goal,he`s got strange management style,i hope barnsley don`t turn up with a big centre forward who likes a physical battle,we be f****d!!

[TBTF]

Just now, simongarnerisgod said:

week after week we see the same players make the same mistakes,mowbray has`nt got the minerals to drop them or ship them out,for someone who was a trenchant defender who would head bricks to stop a goal,he`s got strange management style,i hope barnsley don`t turn up with a big centre forward who likes a physical battle,we be f****d!!

Lol - you mean like that giant Woodrow , their centre forward ???!