Tony Mowbray Discussion

[LDRover]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

The 1970-71, 1978-79 and 2016-17 seasons

And on 2 of those occasions (I was born in 71 so dunno that one) the manager was sacked and we went on to be successful thereafter.

I read all about our 'natural level" but recall teams put together on a shoestring in the mid 80s challenging in the play offs year in year out. We've had something like 5 seasons in the 3rd tier in our 144 years yet we should accept and appreciate where we are? The perspective you are trying to give is flawed based on history (not to mention significant investment currently on the playing side) and the argument on who would replace TM with is moot as it's plain to see the team is regressing and will end up back in L1 if he is left in charge. He simply has to go.

Edited November 23, 2019 by LDRover

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, LDRover said:

And on 2 of those occasions (I was born in 71 so dunno that one) the manager was sacked and we went on to be successful thereafter.

I read all about our 'natural level" but recall teams put together on a shoestring in the mid 80s challenging in the play offs year in year out. We've had something like 5 seasons in the 3rd tier in our 144 years yet we should accept and appreciate where we are? The perspective you are trying to give is flawed based on history (not to mention significant investment currently on the playing side) and the argument on who would replace TM with is moot as it's plain to see the team is progressing and will end up back in L1 if he is left in charge. He simply has to go.

The play offs were introduced for the end of the 1986-87 season so I don't think what you are saying is quite right.

Nowhere do I say that I am happy with where we are. My original post today was in response to a supporter's claim that he was unmoved by us winning today's game with a late goal. I just find it hard to believe that a football supporter really thinks like that. Sitting down here in the South of England I was out of my chair for that winning goal.

[Mercer]

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well he is right somewhat its about results not performances

Really !?!?

Try telling that to Big Sam.

A couple of my friends who are Evertonians would take Sam back in a heartbeat - they are sick and tired of the 'purist' Silva.

[Mercer]

2 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Yes he is such a hypocrite he is very dislikeable. Maybe Ewood has a way of doing that to people. 

Have said it before, IMO, Mowbray is not the man of integrity and loyalty that many think.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Mercer said:

Really !?!?

Try telling that to Big Sam.

A couple of my friends who are Evertonians would take Sam back in a heartbeat - they are sick and tired of the 'purist' Silva.

They must be different Evertonians from the ones who were sending out anti-Allardyce chants when he was their manager - a case of thinking the grass on the other side is always greener

[OldEwoodBlue]

4 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

The 1970-71, 1978-79 and 2016-17 seasons

So in your 55 years, Mowbray was in charge in 2 of the worst seasons.

 

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, OldEwoodBlue said:

So in your 55 years, Mowbray was in charge in 2 of the worst seasons.

 

No - Mowbray was the only good thing about the 2016-17 season - I was referring to the Coyle part of the season

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Sitting down here in the South of England I was out of my chair for that winning goal.

And I was out of my seat in the ground for it. but I'm getting fed up of going down in all weathers watching the manager make the same mistakes. Gallagher out wide, where he has never had an effective game. Armstrong up front on his own, where he has hardly ever had an effective game. Graham on the bench, despite the fact once again there was much better link up play when he eventually got on the pitch. 

Mowbray is stubborn and it all goes back to that quote about needing another way to play other than Graham laying it off to Dack - which was rubbish as we just needed to be able to defend.

Baring a massive change in what we have witnessed over the last 18 months, we are never going to compete for even a play off place under this manager as Mowbray cannot address the obvious defensive faults and cannot get the best out of the squad he has got. We struggled, got outplayed and should have lost against the bottom side mainly becuase of all the same faults we have shown this season. 

Therefore yes I celebrated the goal but felt veryflat at the final whistle because I'd spent 90 minutes witnessing the entire team selection and performance summing up exactly why Mowbray is failing us.

Had I sat at home and just watched the goal come in on Flashscore I would probably have been over the moon at the end.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Hasta

[Silas]

6 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

No - Mowbray was the only good thing about the 2016-17 season - I was referring to the Coyle part of the season

So, in your own opinion, Mowbray is currently overseeing the 2nd worst season in about 40 years. 

Yet, you still think he's the right man for the job and better than any other manager that could be appointed.

And you think a lot of us need to get "a sense of perspective". 

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Silas said:

So, in your own opinion, Mowbray is currently overseeing the 2nd worst season in about 40 years. 

Yet, you still think he's the right man for the job and better than any other manager that could be appointed.

And you think a lot of us need to get "a sense of perspective". 

I don't think he is better than any manager that "could" be appointed. I think there is a significant likelihood that he is better than any manager that "would" be appointed by the present owners.

I don't think we will be relegated under Mowbray - not this season anyway. This is probably going to be a poor, disappointing and dull season. Of the 20 or so seasons spent in this division in the last 40 years it is clearly one of the less enjoyable but it happens - I don't think it will be disaster.

The "perspective" I referred to was that I don't really believe that late winning goals "mean nothing " to football supporters 

[bluebruce]

I thought Mowbray's comments in the recent LT article were interesting (mostly infuriating). Bennett plays all the time because of his work rate etc. Similar qualities quoted in regards to Travis, except for him he couldn't help but throw a negative in there. He gives the ball away too much.

Lewis Travis passing percentage, 84.

Bennett's 74.

Yes, stats don't tell the whole story. Sometimes Trav gives it away at frustrating times. But from personal observation, Bennett does that a lot more. Why slag off the youngster who is clearly performing better and not the seasoned pro who should know better?

I can't understand his obsession with criticising the youngsters in public.

[bluebruce]

Another thing he said in that interview was that Gallagher has missed out on some of his footballing education as a striker, due to going back to Southampton, playing in the reserves etc. So what does he do in the next game? Starts him wide again.

Another odd obsession, teaching young strikers to play striker by punting them wide.

[Stuart]

Just now, bluebruce said:

I thought Mowbray's comments in the recent LT article were interesting (mostly infuriating). Bennett plays all the time because of his work rate etc. Similar qualities quoted in regards to Travis, except for him he couldn't help but throw a negative in there. He gives the ball away too much.

Lewis Travis passing percentage, 84.

Bennett's 74.

Yes, stats don't tell the whole story. Sometimes Trav gives it away at frustrating times. But from personal observation, Bennett does that a lot more. Why slag off the youngster who is clearly performing better and not the seasoned pro who should know better?

I can't understand his obsession with criticising the youngsters in public.

The older players have less opportunities (see the Keogh v Lawrence/Bennett situation) so when they get one they want to keep it. He would probably benefit from keeping those players (‘The Group’) onside so that they back him and influence the younger players.

These are also the demographic of players who would go to the senior management to complain and try to get a manager potted (see Mourinho at Chelsea).

Pure conjecture, of course, but could this be what happened with Mulgrew...?

[Stuart]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

I don't think he is better than any manager that "could" be appointed. I think there is a significant likelihood that he is better than any manager that "would" be appointed by the present owners.

I don't think we will be relegated under Mowbray - not this season anyway. This is probably going to be a poor, disappointing and dull season. Of the 20 or so seasons spent in this division in the last 40 years it is clearly one of the less enjoyable but it happens - I don't think it will be disaster.

The "perspective" I referred to was that I don't really believe that late winning goals "mean nothing " to football supporters 

Since certain overt agents left the club, and Bowyer steadied things while the boardroom war ended, Venkys have consistently employed managers with Championship promotion on their CV - including Mowbray.

[arbitro]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

I don't think he is better than any manager that "could" be appointed. I think there is a significant likelihood that he is better than any manager that "would" be appointed by the present owners.

I don't think we will be relegated under Mowbray - not this season anyway. This is probably going to be a poor, disappointing and dull season. Of the 20 or so seasons spent in this division in the last 40 years it is clearly one of the less enjoyable but it happens - I don't think it will be disaster.

The "perspective" I referred to was that I don't really believe that late winning goals "mean nothing " to football supporters 

So in essence you are saying that Mowbray should be here for the duration of Venkys tenure (however long that may be) because you don't trust them to appoint somebody better.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Stuart said:

Since certain overt agents left the club, and Bowyer steadied things while the boardroom war ended, Venkys have consistently employed managers with Championship promotion on their CV - including Mowbray.

Yes - you are right but even then they were able to pick Coyle over Warnock

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, arbitro said:

So in essence you are saying that Mowbray should be here for the duration of Venkys tenure (however long that may be) because you don't trust them to appoint somebody better.

I am afraid so - although of course Mowbray will go eventually - before Venkys do I expect

[Stuart]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

Yes - you are right but even then they were able to pick Coyle over Warnock

££££ v £ I’m afraid. They seem to have to learn everything the hard way. You’d have thought they’d have learned from the same scenario between Allardyce and Kean.

 

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Stuart said:

££££ v £ I’m afraid. They seem to have to learn everything the hard way. You’d have thought they’d have learned from the same scenario between Allardyce and Kean.

 

Totally agree, Stuart. Unfortunately, do we really think they will learn ?

[arbitro]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

I am afraid so - although of course Mowbray will go eventually - before Venkys do I expect

I think then that your logic is skewed. Taking it a step further should they not have sacked Coyle using your logic?

[roversfan99]

I do find it really strange that people cant enjoy a late winner at Ewood. For a start, he wouldnt have been sacked regardless of the result. I am very much in the Mowbray out crowd and wasnt impressed by the performance at all, with predictable shite performances of Walton, Gallagher, Armstrong, Bennett and Bell never ceasing to amaze. But I was still elated when Dack put in the winner.

[Stuart]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

Totally agree, Stuart. Unfortunately, do we really think they will learn ?

Depends who you talk to. Some think that we should forgive them and trust them.

At the end of the day, if we still believe that this is a football club and still pay to watch then we should still be able to demand that the manager is held accountable for failure.

I cannot and will not accept the argument of sticking with mediocrity and failure “just in case” the next manager “could” be worse. They also “could” be better. Lambert was better than Bowyer. Mowbray was better than Coyle. But every manager has a shelf life.

Mowbray is the 10th longest serving EFL manager, and 2nd longest Championship one, despite having been relegated during that time and having the worst run.

[Reedy You're A Star]

1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

The 1970-71, 1978-79 and 2016-17 seasons

Personally, 2011-12 was much worse than 2016-17. That season laid the groundwork for all the crap that has come after it. It would've been incredibly hard to get away with raping the club like they have in the glare of the PL. Terrible football, plus that shit eating, lip licking, smarmy grin staring out at us as we sank meekly, helplessly, away from the big time that Jack, Kenny, Souey, John Williams and many others, these weasels in charge now couldn't hold a candle too as long they have a hole in their collective arses, worked so hard to put in place. That season with him in charge alone knocked 10,000 off the gates and ensured many would never come back.

[Tom]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I do find it really strange that people cant enjoy a late winner at Ewood. For a start, he wouldnt have been sacked regardless of the result. I am very much in the Mowbray out crowd and wasnt impressed by the performance at all, with predictable shite performances of Walton, Gallagher, Armstrong, Bennett and Bell never ceasing to amaze. But I was still elated when Dack put in the winner.

It’s not a choice people consciously make.

I wish I was bouncing around uncontrollably at full time but i just wasn’t today.

Maybe it’s me and I’ve just fallen out of love with football a bit, but none of that is a conscious effort.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Tom

[roversfan99]

Just now, Tom said:

It’s not a choice people consciously make.

I wish I was bouncing around uncontrollably at full time but i just wasn’t today.

Maybe it’s me and I’ve just fallen out of love with football a bit, but none of that is a conscious effort.

Thats unfortunate, I can understand the belief that our season is fizzling out, if youve fallen out of love with football then that is unfortunate but I think many are over simplifying it by suggesting that we either win or Mowbray goes. I want him gone but I still love a late winner.