Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Mashed Potatoes]

19 hours ago, JHRover said:

Credit to Mowbray where it is due. Whether by accident or design we have ended up with a side that looks balanced, organised and effective and the performances and results are significantly better than they were.

I do laugh at the 'holier than thou' people out there who now we've won a few are taking great enjoyment in the 'I told you so' game. Portraying those who questioned Mowbray's position as fools, idiots etc.

Let's get to the point. Anyone watching us play up to and including the Barnsley game this season quite rightly had serious concerns about what we were doing. Results were mediocre, the bottom 3 was in sight and we had the look of a disorganised rabble. As manager Mowbray quite rightly got stick for that and had his position questioned. Because it wasnt good enough. It goes to show now that this team is and was capable of much better than what we saw earlier this season. 

Our good form has repaired the damage of our nosedive culminating in the Preston defeat and we are back in the 'comfort' of midtable. A few good results from here before Xmas and the play-offs will be reachable. A couple of poor results and we could well be back down in 16th.

I think the "holier than thou" people took exception to some of the unpleasantness that was directed at the manager and are justifiably taking pleasure in seeing him doing well. At least one poster described Mowbray as "corrupt" - a disgraceful remark - and others claimed he was not a nice person.

[OldEwoodBlue]

The target was top 6 - we were nowhere near and he deserved the stick.

The target is top 6 - we are now in a better position so cautious optimism.

The target will remain top 6 - he will be judged at the end of the season.

Top 6 - well done.

Challenging but just miss out - progress.

Mid table - stagnation and failure.

 

This is the fact of the matter.

[Guest]

Didn't know where to put this, but at around 29 minutes there's some REAL insight into just how bad Owen Coyle is/was. Scary, scary stuff, and I think it basically explains our relegation.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

The target was top 6 - we were nowhere near and he deserved the stick.

The target is top 6 - we are now in a better position so cautious optimism.

The target will remain top 6 - he will be judged at the end of the season.

Top 6 - well done.

Challenging but just miss out - progress.

Mid table - stagnation and failure.

 

This is the fact of the matter.

I would agree with this, but (there is always a but  ) there may not be a huge difference points wise between the 2 outcomes highlighted. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Didn't know where to put this, but at around 29 minutes there's some REAL insight into just how bad Owen Coyle is/was. Scary, scary stuff, and I think it basically explains our relegation.

 

Thanks for that but I don't need Clark Carlisle or anyone else to tell me how bad Coyle was. His record after leaving the Dingle Dome told me all I needed to know. I gave up temporarily after we appointed him. That was after 50 years, that tells you how sure I was that he'd relegate us.

[K-Hod]

2 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I think the "holier than thou" people took exception to some of the unpleasantness that was directed at the manager and are justifiably taking pleasure in seeing him doing well. At least one poster described Mowbray as "corrupt" - a disgraceful remark - and others claimed he was not a nice person.

No they didn’t. Some called him a coward, owing to his style of football, not calling him personally a coward.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, K-Hod said:

No they didn’t. Some called him a coward, owing to his style of football, not calling him personally a coward.

What about when people nonsensically claimed he didn't want to do well because it put too much expectation on, that it suited him to plod along in midtable for the duration of his contract? "for his pension" I remember one poster wrote. I would say that questioned his character. 

Did that happen? 

Please don't ban me 

[tomphil]

The hypocrisy is alive and well again this morning i see.

Fact is most will bash him when things aren't going well and they feel he is to blame then praise and maybe defend him when there's a sudden turn around like this. He has to take credit now for getting it right just like he has to shoulder a lot of the blame for weakening our chances by messing around before.

I'm no different in any of that and i still think he's bang on average at this level, you can only base it on what we've seen so far. I'm talking the whole package of tactics, signings, results etc etc.

I'm more than happy for him to prove me wrong and if we finish around tenth place then in the grand scheme of things it'll be about right. We all 'hope' for higher but it's never that straight forward.

[47er]

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

To suggest we are doing well "despite him" is incredibly close minded and unfair. If we are prepared to criticise him when we dont do well then he deserves praise when we do.

Ignoring the fact that plenty defended him when our results were lousy and do so under ANY circumstances?

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

What about when people nonsensically claimed he didn't want to do well because it put too much expectation on, that it suited him to plod along in midtable for the duration of his contract? "for his pension" I remember one poster wrote. I would say that questioned his character. 

Did that happen? 

Please don't ban me 

It probably did, but the word ‘corrupt’ wasn’t used. I won’t ban you unless you do something bam worthy. I’m not that bad!

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, K-Hod said:

It probably did, but the word ‘corrupt’ wasn’t used. I won’t ban you unless you do something bam worthy. I’m not that bad!

Like disagree with you again? 

Splitting hairs about what was said. I read some very nasty attacks on his character. Some have put their hands up, some waiting a bit longer, which is their prerogative. Others unwilling to backtrack or give credit where it is due. The majority just critical of performances and his stubborn ways. Hopefully the future is bright. 

It's interesting how much quieter things are here post wise, particularly in match threads, when things are going well. Fans do like venting. 

 

[Norbert Rassragr]

I'm still not convinced Tony is the right man but this run will hopefully keep us away from a relegation battle. I still expect a horrible run of 10 games without a win at some stage.

[roversfan99]

47 minutes ago, 47er said:

Ignoring the fact that plenty defended him when our results were lousy and do so under ANY circumstances?

Not at all, equally that is totally unfair. He deserves criticism for quite a lot but he deserves praise for the 4 wins on the bounce, end of.

[OldEwoodBlue]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

What about when people nonsensically claimed he didn't want to do well because it put too much expectation on, that it suited him to plod along in midtable for the duration of his contract? "for his pension" I remember one poster wrote. I would say that questioned his character. 

Did that happen? 

Please don't ban me 

Theory is credible and far from disproved. Only he can disprove it.

[K-Hod]

15 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Like disagree with you again? 

Splitting hairs about what was said. I read some very nasty attacks on his character. Some have put their hands up, some waiting a bit longer, which is their prerogative. Others unwilling to backtrack or give credit where it is due. The majority just critical of performances and his stubborn ways. Hopefully the future is bright. 

It's interesting how much quieter things are here post wise, particularly in match threads, when things are going well. Fans do like venting. 

 

It’s not at all splitting hairs with claiming he’s been called corrupt, when he definitely hasn’t. 
That’s a word saved for Steve Kean, FIFA etc.

If anything, it’s been exactly the opposite that people have said on here, en masse. 
I’m not disputing that he’s been criticised by many, but I found the corrupt thing strange, as the only manager I’ve heard referred to as that was Steve Kean, and that was with very good reason!!

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 hours ago, K-Hod said:

It’s not at all splitting hairs with claiming he’s been called corrupt, when he definitely hasn’t. 
That’s a word saved for Steve Kean, FIFA etc.

If anything, it’s been exactly the opposite that people have said on here, en masse. 
I’m not disputing that he’s been criticised by many, but I found the corrupt thing strange, as the only manager I’ve heard referred to as that was Steve Kean, and that was with very good reason!!

I think it's splitting hairs because the stuff about him wanting to plod in mid-table to add to his pension pot would , in my opinion, be borderline alluding to a form of corruption Secondly, some of the stuff I read here, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if someone outright said it. 

All in the minority to be fair. I 100% agree that it's a term that should be kept for someone like Kean, with a few choice words added before and after it! 

[DE.]

I like Mowbray as a person but I don't like the way he has historically approached football matches. Negative thinking, trying to make out that average opponents are something special, constantly starting matches like the team had just come out of the pub (the dreaded Ewood HT 0-0), strikers being pushed out wide ineffectively, constant tinkering and rotating, playing favourites even when said favourites are in extremely bad form, dropping others for what seem to be smaller indiscretions, wasting our transfer budget on non-performing strikers whilst failing to strengthen the defence ('defenders are (not) coming), criticising certain players in public whilst never mentioning others far more deserving of criticism... I mean, that all happened and four wins doesn't erase history. We won four on the spin last January so we aren't exactly in unprecedented territory here. 

If our form continues and we mount a genuine playoff push then I'll be delighted. I've never had a problem with Mowbray as a person. A month's worth of results isn't enough to sway me yet though. This is how it's always been under Mowbray - periods of awful form followed by unexpected good form and then back to bad form. Maintaining consistent form for longer than a month is what we require and we can only live in hope that the penny has dropped and we'll see a more consistent team and approach adopted for the rest of the season. I don't think we'll see many complaints directed at the manager in that situation even if we do fall short of the top six pre-season target.

Edited December 9, 2019 by DE.

[Amo]

16 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think it's splitting hairs because the stuff about him wanting to plod in mid-table to add to his pension pot would , in my opinion, be borderline alluding to a form of corruption

I don’t think the implication was that he literally wanted to plod along in mid table, just that he had grown complacent and too stuck in his ways to take the club forward. 

[Admiral Nelsen]

12 minutes ago, DE. said:

If our form continues and we mount a genuine playoff push then I'll be delighted. I've never had a problem with Mowbray as a person. A month's worth of results isn't enough to sway me yet though. This is how it's always been under Mowbray - periods of awful form followed by unexpected good form and then back to bad form. Maintaining consistent form for longer than a month is what we require and we can only live in hope that the penny has dropped and we'll see a more consistent team and approach adopted for the rest of the season. I don't think we'll see many complaints directed at the manager in that situation even if we do fall short of the top six pre-season target.

I'm not trying to be facetious when saying this, but you can just as easily say 'periods of good form, followed by a sudden awful dip, then back to good form'. In fact given the progress we've made (and for now, looks like we're continuing to make) I'd say that's a fairer way of putting it. 

[DE.]

Just now, Admiral Nelsen said:

I'm not trying to be facetious when saying this, but you can just as easily say 'periods of good form, followed by a sudden awful dip, then back to good form'. In fact given the progress we've made (and for now, looks like we're continuing to make) I'd say that's a fairer way of putting it. 

Whatever way you look at it we won't get promoted with our form see-sawing throughout the season. Our periods of good form need to be longer than our periods of bad form. Let's not forget our horrific run last season between Feb-Apr was our worst since Venky's took over, and we struggled badly between November-December that season as well. Those nosedives need to stop happening for us to be successful. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by DE.

[BlackburnEnd75]

29 minutes ago, DE. said:

I like Mowbray as a person but I don't like the way he has historically approached football matches. Negative thinking, trying to make out that average opponents are something special, constantly starting matches like the team had just come out of the pub (the dreaded Ewood HT 0-0), strikers being pushed out wide ineffectively, constant tinkering and rotating, playing favourites even when said favourites are in extremely bad form, dropping others for what seem to be smaller indisgressions, wasting our transfer budget on non-performing strikers whilst failing to strengthen the defence ('defenders are (not) coming), criticising certain players in public whilst never mentioning others far more deserving of criticism... I mean, that all happened and four wins doesn't erase history. We won four on the spin last January so we aren't exactly in unprecedented territory here. 

If our form continues and we mount a genuine playoff push then I'll be delighted. I've never had a problem with Mowbray as a person. A month's worth of results isn't enough to sway me yet though. This is how it's always been under Mowbray - periods of awful form followed by unexpected good form and then back to bad form. Maintaining consistent form for longer than a month is what we require and we can only live in hope that the penny has dropped and we'll see a more consistent team and approach adopted for the rest of the season. I don't think we'll see many complaints directed at the manager in that situation even if we do fall short of the top six pre-season target.

At times i agree we've been too negative but that was more last season, playing too deep with defensive wingers and so on. At times he's been too attacking in his selection (holtby in cm for example) and its only now that we have found the correct balance.

My main criticism is we've taken too long to get to this position we are in now with a settled side (we all know which selections i'm talking about) and most importantly a settled core. So my main worry going forward is that he reverts to his old habits. So when Gallagher came on out wide and Armstrong went through the middle it worries me, Gallagher out wide doesn't work, it feels like he did it to allow Armstrong through the middle (he seems to think players need to earn their stripes out wide before they can play up front). Bennett on at left back was another, his pressing in midfield would've really helped and downing was doing fine at LB.

I also worry that one bad game from Nyambe or a quiet game or 2 from Rothwell and they are back out the 11. We need to stick closely to this team if we can.

We're going to have to rotate over xmas so this team will be broken up either way, I just hope that when our winning run comes to an end we can go on another winning run rather than what we did last season and completely collapse.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Thanks for that but I don't need Clark Carlisle or anyone else to tell me how bad Coyle was. His record after leaving the Dingle Dome told me all I needed to know. I gave up temporarily after we appointed him. That was after 50 years, that tells you how sure I was that he'd relegate us.

Okay... just a video mate.

[DE.]

Just now, BlackburnEnd75 said:

We're going to have to rotate over xmas so this team will be broken up either way, I just hope that when our winning run comes to an end we can go on another winning run rather than what we did last season and completely collapse.

This is exactly what needs to change. We've been on winning runs before, but a couple of poor results and we seem to mentally collapse and it takes too long for us to recover from that. We need to be more resilient mentally. If we have a couple of bad results but then turn it around and start winning matches again, then I'll believe it might have finally clicked. Until then I'm enjoying our current run of form but wary about what happens when it comes to an end. 

[47er]

8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Not at all, equally that is totally unfair. He deserves criticism for quite a lot but he deserves praise for the 4 wins on the bounce, end of.

4 wins are not an end in themselves. We went on a big run of success last season and where did we end up? Back where it started after a disastrous run. Perspective is needed here.

As far as I am concerned, this present run has taken us well away from the relegation struggle I feared. With TM, it is not necessarily a pointer to the future.

I would prefer a more regular graph of wins and I don't believe Tony will deliver it. Hope I'm wrong but I'm sick of wondering whether this 55 year old has" learned his lesson".

Sorry DE, just realised I've said what you said!

Edited December 9, 2019 by 47er

[roversfan99]

Just now, 47er said:

4 wins are not an end in themselves. We went on a big run of success last season and where did we end up? Back where it started after a disastrous run. Perspective is needed here.

As far as I am concerned, this present run has taken us well away from the relegation struggle I feared. With TM, it is not necessarily a pointer to the future.

I would prefer a more regular graph of wins and I don't believe Tony will deliver it. Hope I'm wrong but I'm sick of wondering whether this 55 year old has" learned his lesson".

Sorry DE, just realised I've said what you said!

I never said that it is proof of long term success under Mowbray or even justification that he is the man to take us forward, but for the last 4 games in isolation he deserves plenty of credit.