Jump to content

BRFCS

BY THE FANS, FOR THE FANS
SINCE 1996
Proudly partnered with TheTerraceStore.com

Tony Mowbray Discussion


Recommended Posts

17 minutes ago, Roverthechimp said:

I think the owners don't actually want a top manager who would be more demanding and vocal about what is needed whilst costing a bit more.

Based on what happened with Paul Lambert the more demanding and vocal manager would fail to gel with these owners; I don't think it is a coincidence that the two longer serving managers in Bowyer and Mowbray are more phlegmatic characters.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Ossydave said:

Not convinced Grayson is the man, he won like 3 games in 18 at Sunderland then similar at Bradford. He's doing 'ok' at Blackpool now but they current sit in a similar position to us really, in a weaker league. 

Ross failed to get Sunderland promoted, a feat Mowbray managed at first time of asking. I cant really comment on his time in Scotland and I don't really follow the leagues there.

IF we could attract Warnock, and I think it's a massive if, he's 71 years old. At that age he's only going to be a short term fix isn't he? Is that what we want?

So the only one I'd feel comfortable with his Hughton, as I say though I think he'd prefer a shot at the prem again, although not sure where he'd go realistically so we might be able to blag him to come.

Some really well reasoned points again illustrating it's not an easy situatiin. Think you are a bit harsh on Grayson - his CV has a lot more successes than TMs - and Blackpool are in a weaker league but with a weaker team so if anything it shows he is a decent manager. 

Your cautions on Ross I can't argue with. I suspect the Sunderland situation overshadows his managerial ability but your cautions are valid. Again, a proper recruitment system would uncover which is nearer the mark. 

As for Warnock any fix is better than none. It changes the culture. If (big if) we get promoted it changes the financial situation. At the very least it puts in some.positive building blocks for someone to work on. So yeah, for me even a short term fix is better than none at all. 

Interestingly given we're assessing all these managers I'm not sure whether other clubs would favourably assess TM. For example if Boro or any mid/lower table championship club were looking for a manager would they go for TM? His promotion with us is a big positive but other than that and West Brom the CV doesn't make good reading. Indeed the last year or so of his time with Rovers doesn't make good reading either. All the managers we may get have limitations but TM certainly does too. The question is whether there are more issues with TM then some.of these other managers. (imo yes, which is why am leaning towards him leaving.) 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had firmly put myself in the Mowbray Out camp before our unbeaten run, too many odd decisions and he just didn't look like he knew what he was trying to do let alone achieve it.

But then we had the Brentford game where for the first time under him we looked like a playoff capable team. Passed it out from the back, pressed well and I thought he'd stumbled across his best team and if we could stick closely to that team then we would have a chance. I was very happy to give him another chance because I was happy with what I was seeing. I even didn't grumble in the Derby game when he put Gallagher on the wing. 

But through a fixture pileup and some injuries he's had to change that formula, and with Dack out for a year he can't ever go back to it. Suddenly it's very apparent that he's spunked a lot of money up the wall on Gallagher and Brereton who even now when we've gone two up top don't look up to it.

The question really is what is the ambition now from the owners?

Is their money available and promotion the goal then might as well sack him now.

Is the pot dry and we just have to work with what we've got with promotion being a bonus? Then it's not so obvious.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I should in all fairness add that i am not entirely dissatisfied with TM. Annoyed with certain non-performances but realistic that we aren't top 2 material.

I firmly believe that certain signings are decided by others (particularly BB). If BB and SG were loans/homegrown then i would say TM was doing pretty well overall.

That 12m plus decent wages for others is a game changer IF he had his hands free regarding signings...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with Rovers as I see it from a fans perspective, is we've become stale, stagnant, boring, lacking in real direction and ambition: all the opposites of what fans really buy into. 

The likes of Tyrone, jim mk2, mercer (and countless others) would be at Ewood every week if things were different. That doesn't necessarily mean winning every week either.

From the owners (financial backing excepted), to the executive management, to the coaching staff and players;  We're Blackburn Rovers and have always had ambition and aspirations and have worn the shirt with pride, you need to either shit or jump off the pot!

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

I had firmly put myself in the Mowbray Out camp before our unbeaten run, too many odd decisions and he just didn't look like he knew what he was trying to do let alone achieve it.

But then we had the Brentford game where for the first time under him we looked like a playoff capable team. Passed it out from the back, pressed well and I thought he'd stumbled across his best team and if we could stick closely to that team then we would have a chance. I was very happy to give him another chance because I was happy with what I was seeing. I even didn't grumble in the Derby game when he put Gallagher on the wing. 

But through a fixture pileup and some injuries he's had to change that formula, and with Dack out for a year he can't ever go back to it. Suddenly it's very apparent that he's spunked a lot of money up the wall on Gallagher and Brereton who even now when we've gone two up top don't look up to it.

The question really is what is the ambition now from the owners?

Is their money available and promotion the goal then might as well sack him now.

Is the pot dry and we just have to work with what we've got with promotion being a bonus? Then it's not so obvious.

 

In bold, absolutely

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderation Lead
20 minutes ago, Prelude said:

If Warnock is made manager of this club I will not watch any Rovers game until he has gone. He is an obnxious cretin

But he wins football matches at this level. 
Craig Bellamy and Robbie Savage were the same, but they were great for us!
It’s a manager we need, not a saint.

Edited by K-Hod
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just can't help but think yet again in light of possible FFP restricting spending next season the signing of Brereton is an unmitagated disaster. 

If they'd paid his true worth of a couple of million or if we could get a few million back for him right now it wouldn't be so bad. But the spectre of that money spent and nothing to show for it contributing to the team yet is very hard to take.

Whoever was really responsible for that needs their balls nailing to a fence outside Ewood. 

Terrible use of our limited funds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, tomphil said:

Just can't help but think yet again in light of possible FFP restricting spending next season the signing of Brereton is an unmitagated disaster. 

If they'd paid his true worth of a couple of million or if we could get a few million back for him right now it wouldn't be so bad. But the spectre of that money spent and nothing to show for it contributing to the team yet is very hard to take.

Whoever was really responsible for that needs their balls nailing to a fence outside Ewood. 

Terrible use of our limited funds.

Because of his age, could his signing not have come under the development squad/acadamy and as such not apply to FFP calculations? Raya going could also have been a way of balancing things? 

FFP is just an excuse anyway IMO: there's no doubt that Mowbray, Waggott and co. will hide behind that whilst they continue to frustrate the life out of us all.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Prelude said:

If Warnock is made manager of this club I will not watch any Rovers game until he has gone. He is an obnxious cretin

I did similar under Coyle ?

 

In Warnick's defence, he oozes passion and I imagine he is the management equivalent of Bellamy and Savage. Hate them unless they are yours.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, darrenrover said:

Because of his age, could his signing not have come under the development squad/acadamy and as such not apply to FFP calculations? Raya going could also have been a way of balancing things? 

FFP is just an excuse anyway IMO: there's no doubt that Mowbray, Waggott and co. will hide behind that whilst they continue to frustrate the life out of us all.

That's something iv'e asked about on here a few times it would make more sense if so as to why they'd gamble that amount.

Still think if they'd shaped themselves a bit more they might just have signed a player then for a few million. One maybe a bit more in the Armstrong mould who might be worth a bit more to sell now without damaging the team too much.  Surely that's a better way to go about things rather than be caught inbetween multimillion pound punts or scrabbling around for old age frees on big wages.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

In bold, absolutely

2 messages came out of the Shareholders’ meeting. 
In what circumstances would the owners leave the club? None were forthcoming. If the Club were to be promoted, they would not look to sell to recoup any monies they had put into the club, or to clear liabilities.

It was stated the owners were frustrated that they were prevented from putting more money into the club because of the FairPlay rules.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, 92er said:

2 messages came out of the Shareholders’ meeting. 
In what circumstances would the owners leave the club? None were forthcoming. If the Club were to be promoted, they would not look to sell to recoup any monies they had put into the club, or to clear liabilities.

It was stated the owners were frustrated that they were prevented from putting more money into the club because of the FairPlay rules.

That's the same that was coming out 6 years ago.

As you were.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, 92er said:

2 messages came out of the Shareholders’ meeting. 
In what circumstances would the owners leave the club? None were forthcoming. If the Club were to be promoted, they would not look to sell to recoup any monies they had put into the club, or to clear liabilities.

It was stated the owners were frustrated that they were prevented from putting more money into the club because of the FairPlay rules.

If that were the case, then surely you'd employ the best advisors to circumvent the issue? After all, the penalties applied to those found to be non compliant in the past haven't even equated to half a Ben Brereton's cost!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why is standing looked upon  has being successful . If so the crowds  will drop off even more. A new manager with a different  approach like a Mark Hughes  who as something  too prove or Hughton  would with a few new faces  get Rovers up there are way a head of TM for spotting a player

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

That's something iv'e asked about on here a few times it would make more sense if so as to why they'd gamble that amount.

Still think if they'd shaped themselves a bit more they might just have signed a player then for a few million. One maybe a bit more in the Armstrong mould who might be worth a bit more to sell now without damaging the team too much.  Surely that's a better way to go about things rather than be caught inbetween multimillion pound punts or scrabbling around for old age frees on big wages.

Multimillion pound punts, punts on players with historical injury issues and old age freebies, all command big agents commission fees though. Perhaps I've read too many autobiographies!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nixon did a small piece years ago when GB was here about them being frustrated at FFP and wanting to spend.  Just before they potted him then sold everyone who was worth anything which in the long run ended in relegation.

Personally i reckon they did want to spend big after promotion and go for the double bounce. However they were advised they would be better spending it bit by bit over a few years on the like of Brereton, Gallagher etc and the slow build.

Part sound advice part in someone else's interests as always but definitely the wrong players at this juncture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, tomphil said:

Nixon did a small piece years ago when GB was here about them being frustrated at FFP and wanting to spend.  Just before they potted him then sold everyone who was worth anything which in the long run ended in relegation.

Personally i reckon they did want to spend big after promotion and go for the double bounce. However they were advised they would be better spending it bit by bit over a few years on the like of Brereton, Gallagher etc and the slow build.

Part sound advice part in someone else's interests as always but definitely the wrong players at this juncture.

With the experience of having signed Brereton and how that was turning out, to then go and sign Gallagher who we know is not up to much, begs questions surely.

I can't help but go back to Shearers' first game at Palace: we knew we'd got a player!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

With the experience of having signed Brereton and how that was turning out, to then go and sign Gallagher who we know is not up to much, begs questions surely.

I can't help but go back to Shearers' first game at Palace: we knew we'd got a player!

I'll refer you back to your mention of agents on that one.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Its a good question. As I said in an earlier post I think we've missed the boat on a number of decent managers. However off the top of my head Grayson would be amongst me too candidates. 

I also wonder about Ross the former Sunderland manager. Yes he didn't get them promoted - albeit it's a graveyard for managers - but they had a good long unbeaten run and doing decently in such a shambles is more of an achievement then it looks. He also did well in Scotland. Houghton as you say is a good call if we can get him. We spend silly money on non scoring strikers so if the will was there I think we could attract him. 

You are right that having incompetent owners hinders us hugely. A decent person in charge of recruitment would be able to assess whether someone was worth a gamble, whether failed roles had been learned from/had mitigating circumstances or whether they weren't that good. Take for example the ex Stoke boss Jones - he did really well prior to Stoke but poor at Stoke. Which is the better indicator of his talent? I'm not sure but a decent recruiter would be able to get a better handle on this and make a more accurate judgement. So yeah, having incompetents lead us does limit the managerial pool. 

That said it doesn't shut the door. Some like Houghton and Grayson I think are proven quality. And maybe Warnock could be tempted if we grovelled with large amounts of cash? Others are a gamble, and whilst we don't know which they are because of poor investigation from the recruiters - they could well be good and better than what we have. Ross would fall into that category for me. 

Now that sounds like a big risk and I appreciate it isn't risk free. The question becomes when is it worth taking the risk. However TM to me is losing the plot - even when he stumbles on a winning formula he rejects it - and the shape we will be in 6 months from now is terrifying (no keeper, defence or decent striker). So to me the risk isn't all that big especially given most managers would do obvious things that would have big gains, such as playing players in position. 

Grayson was awful at Sunderland and he isn't at the best time at Blackpool currently. 

Nathan Jones. Was excellent at Luton. Played some excellent football. at Stoke, his recruitment of players were all over the place. At Stoke he bought players and then played like Vokes, Smith or keeper Davies. Plus he was changing formations every single week. Was the job there too big for him? maybe so. 

Jack Ross. Awful at Sunderland and couldn't get them promotion despite spending millions after millions. and that's at lower league. 

 

4 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Allardyce, Hughes, Pullis, Hughton and Warnock are currently out of work. That's without even considering any up and coming young managers in the lower leagues.

Not saying all of the above would come but I would be surprised if one or two of them wouldn't be interested if enough money was on offer.

and Rev, you need to get realistic and none of those are going to come anywhere near our club or we could even afford their wages and backroom staff. 

My current view has changed from wanting a change of manager to allow Mowbray the season and review his position at the end of the season. Yes we have some players out of contract in the summer but it gives the manager a chance to rebuild the squad. Tho I don't think Bennett is out of contract

Edited by chaddyrovers
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Grayson was awful at Sunderland and he isn't at the best time at Blackpool currently. 

Nathan Jones. Was excellent at Luton. Played some excellent football. at Stoke, his recruitment of players were all over the place. At Stoke he bought players and then played like Vokes, Smith or keeper Davies. Plus he was changing formations every single week. Was the job there too big for him? maybe so. 

Jack Ross. Awful at Sunderland and couldn't get them promotion despite spending millions after millions. and that's at lower league. 

 

and Rev, you need to get realistic and none of those are going to come anywhere near our club or we could even afford their wages and backroom staff. 

My current view has changed from wanting a change of manager to allow Mowbray the season and review his position at the end of the season. Yes we have some players out of contract in the summer but it gives the manager a chance to rebuild the squad. Tho I don't think Bennett is out of contract

Not saying you are wrong (although disagree re Grayson - Sunderland was a failure but who hasn't and 4 promotions) but the highlighted criticisms are all huge issues with TM. You don't want one manager because of his poor recruitment - yet TMs recruitment is poor - has blown tons on inadequate strikers. You don't want another because he chops and changes. TM may have chopped and changed players and their positions on the odd occasion too. TM seems to have many of the flaws that make us turn our nose up at other managers! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.