Tony Mowbray Discussion

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

But what sort of manager will be attracted to the club in Mowbray's place if he realises that FFP constraints will restrict recruitment ? Probably the Owen Coyles of this world.

Imo "We might appoint someone worse" is still not a valid argument in favour of keeping a manager you know or believe will fail if he stays on.

[JHRover]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

But what sort of manager will be attracted to the club in Mowbray's place if he realises that FFP constraints will restrict recruitment ? Probably the Owen Coyles of this world.

Every club in this League has FFP on the horizon to contend with. 

This season Cardiff, Swansea, Reading, Millwall, QPR, West Brom, Birmingham, Barnsley, Hull, Middlesbrough, Sheffield Wednesday and Stoke have all made managerial changes. Other than Middlesbrough all have either stayed consistent with last season or improved following their change. Middlesbrough are climbing rapidly and aren't far behind us.

Prior to inexplicably appointing Coyle we had Lambert and Irvine coming down from the Premier League and Neil Warnock wanting the job. The decision to give the job to Coyle wasnt because nobody decent wanted to come here.

We are an attractive club in a very popular league. Only recently world known managers like Bilic and Bielsa have moved to Championship clubs. There are many options open to ambitious clubs.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Imo "We might appoint someone worse" is still not a valid argument in favour of keeping a manager you know or believe will fail if he stays on.

I assume by "fail" you mean not getting us back to the Premier League and based on his record to date that is a fair assessment of what is likely to happen with Tony Mowbray - but it is worth bearing that with the likes of Coyle "fail" will mean relegation which I don't see happening with Mowbray

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, JHRover said:

Every club in this League has FFP on the horizon to contend with. 

This season Cardiff, Swansea, Reading, Millwall, QPR, West Brom, Birmingham, Barnsley, Hull, Middlesbrough, Sheffield Wednesday and Stoke have all made managerial changes. Other than Middlesbrough all have either stayed consistent with last season or improved following their change. Middlesbrough are climbing rapidly and aren't far behind us.

Prior to inexplicably appointing Coyle we had Lambert and Irvine coming down from the Premier League and Neil Warnock wanting the job. The decision to give the job to Coyle wasnt because nobody decent wanted to come here.

We are an attractive club in a very popular league. Only recently world known managers like Bilic and Bielsa have moved to Championship clubs. There are many options open to ambitious clubs.

What I meant by the restraints of FFP was the suggestion elsewhere on this board that next year losses must be limited to about £4m. At the moment before transfers I think operating losses are in the region of £8m so either the club makes a significant profit on transfers to cover the operating loss or makes large cuts to costs and brings in next to no new players. That, coupled with the toxic reputation of the owners, would I suspect deter the better prospective managers from wanting to join us.

[Roverthechimp]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

What I meant by the restraints of FFP was the suggestion elsewhere on this board that next year losses must be limited to about £4m. At the moment before transfers I think operating losses are in the region of £8m so either the club makes a significant profit on transfers to cover the operating loss or makes large cuts to costs and brings in next to no new players. That, coupled with the toxic reputation of the owners, would I suspect deter the better prospective managers from wanting to join us.

I think the owners don't actually want a top manager who would be more demanding and vocal about what is needed whilst costing a bit more.

[Ossydave]

24 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Allardyce, Hughes, Pullis, Hughton and Warnock are currently out of work. That's without even considering any up and coming young managers in the lower leagues.

Not saying all of the above would come but I would be surprised if one or two of them wouldn't be interested if enough money was on offer.

Forget about Allardyce and Hughes, absolutely no chance of either.

Pulis, could probably do a job but would he propel us to the next level and would our fans tolerate his style of anti football? He's also had numerous fall outs with owners over transfer budgets etc in his career, him and Venkys would probably be a match made in hell.

Warnock is unlikely to want to work with Venkys especially at the tender age of 71, does he really need that stress at his stage in life? I'd be surprised if he manages another team again to be honest.

Hughton, the only realistic one for me if we could persuade him to come.

[Mashed Potatoes]

17 minutes ago, Roverthechimp said:

I think the owners don't actually want a top manager who would be more demanding and vocal about what is needed whilst costing a bit more.

Based on what happened with Paul Lambert the more demanding and vocal manager would fail to gel with these owners; I don't think it is a coincidence that the two longer serving managers in Bowyer and Mowbray are more phlegmatic characters.

[Blue blood]

3 hours ago, Ossydave said:

Not convinced Grayson is the man, he won like 3 games in 18 at Sunderland then similar at Bradford. He's doing 'ok' at Blackpool now but they current sit in a similar position to us really, in a weaker league. 

Ross failed to get Sunderland promoted, a feat Mowbray managed at first time of asking. I cant really comment on his time in Scotland and I don't really follow the leagues there.

IF we could attract Warnock, and I think it's a massive if, he's 71 years old. At that age he's only going to be a short term fix isn't he? Is that what we want?

So the only one I'd feel comfortable with his Hughton, as I say though I think he'd prefer a shot at the prem again, although not sure where he'd go realistically so we might be able to blag him to come.

Some really well reasoned points again illustrating it's not an easy situatiin. Think you are a bit harsh on Grayson - his CV has a lot more successes than TMs - and Blackpool are in a weaker league but with a weaker team so if anything it shows he is a decent manager. 

Your cautions on Ross I can't argue with. I suspect the Sunderland situation overshadows his managerial ability but your cautions are valid. Again, a proper recruitment system would uncover which is nearer the mark. 

As for Warnock any fix is better than none. It changes the culture. If (big if) we get promoted it changes the financial situation. At the very least it puts in some.positive building blocks for someone to work on. So yeah, for me even a short term fix is better than none at all. 

Interestingly given we're assessing all these managers I'm not sure whether other clubs would favourably assess TM. For example if Boro or any mid/lower table championship club were looking for a manager would they go for TM? His promotion with us is a big positive but other than that and West Brom the CV doesn't make good reading. Indeed the last year or so of his time with Rovers doesn't make good reading either. All the managers we may get have limitations but TM certainly does too. The question is whether there are more issues with TM then some.of these other managers. (imo yes, which is why am leaning towards him leaving.) 

 

[Prelude]

If Warnock is made manager of this club I will not watch any Rovers game until he has gone. He is an obnxious cretin

[darrenrover]

Just now, Prelude said:

If Warnock is made manager of this club I will not watch any Rovers game until he has gone. He is an obnxious cretin

I don't think you need worry in that regard, I believe Warnock's stated he's retired.

[BlackburnEnd75]

I had firmly put myself in the Mowbray Out camp before our unbeaten run, too many odd decisions and he just didn't look like he knew what he was trying to do let alone achieve it.

But then we had the Brentford game where for the first time under him we looked like a playoff capable team. Passed it out from the back, pressed well and I thought he'd stumbled across his best team and if we could stick closely to that team then we would have a chance. I was very happy to give him another chance because I was happy with what I was seeing. I even didn't grumble in the Derby game when he put Gallagher on the wing. 

But through a fixture pileup and some injuries he's had to change that formula, and with Dack out for a year he can't ever go back to it. Suddenly it's very apparent that he's spunked a lot of money up the wall on Gallagher and Brereton who even now when we've gone two up top don't look up to it.

The question really is what is the ambition now from the owners?

Is their money available and promotion the goal then might as well sack him now.

Is the pot dry and we just have to work with what we've got with promotion being a bonus? Then it's not so obvious.

 

[Roverthechimp]

I should in all fairness add that i am not entirely dissatisfied with TM. Annoyed with certain non-performances but realistic that we aren't top 2 material.

I firmly believe that certain signings are decided by others (particularly BB). If BB and SG were loans/homegrown then i would say TM was doing pretty well overall.

That 12m plus decent wages for others is a game changer IF he had his hands free regarding signings...

[darrenrover]

The problem with Rovers as I see it from a fans perspective, is we've become stale, stagnant, boring, lacking in real direction and ambition: all the opposites of what fans really buy into. 

The likes of Tyrone, jim mk2, mercer (and countless others) would be at Ewood every week if things were different. That doesn't necessarily mean winning every week either.

From the owners (financial backing excepted), to the executive management, to the coaching staff and players;  We're Blackburn Rovers and have always had ambition and aspirations and have worn the shirt with pride, you need to either shit or jump off the pot!

 

[darrenrover]

6 minutes ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

I had firmly put myself in the Mowbray Out camp before our unbeaten run, too many odd decisions and he just didn't look like he knew what he was trying to do let alone achieve it.

But then we had the Brentford game where for the first time under him we looked like a playoff capable team. Passed it out from the back, pressed well and I thought he'd stumbled across his best team and if we could stick closely to that team then we would have a chance. I was very happy to give him another chance because I was happy with what I was seeing. I even didn't grumble in the Derby game when he put Gallagher on the wing. 

But through a fixture pileup and some injuries he's had to change that formula, and with Dack out for a year he can't ever go back to it. Suddenly it's very apparent that he's spunked a lot of money up the wall on Gallagher and Brereton who even now when we've gone two up top don't look up to it.

The question really is what is the ambition now from the owners?

Is their money available and promotion the goal then might as well sack him now.

Is the pot dry and we just have to work with what we've got with promotion being a bonus? Then it's not so obvious.

 

In bold, absolutely

[K-Hod]

20 minutes ago, Prelude said:

If Warnock is made manager of this club I will not watch any Rovers game until he has gone. He is an obnxious cretin

But he wins football matches at this level. 
Craig Bellamy and Robbie Savage were the same, but they were great for us!
It’s a manager we need, not a saint.

Edited December 30, 2019 by K-Hod

[tomphil]

Just can't help but think yet again in light of possible FFP restricting spending next season the signing of Brereton is an unmitagated disaster. 

If they'd paid his true worth of a couple of million or if we could get a few million back for him right now it wouldn't be so bad. But the spectre of that money spent and nothing to show for it contributing to the team yet is very hard to take.

Whoever was really responsible for that needs their balls nailing to a fence outside Ewood. 

Terrible use of our limited funds.

[darrenrover]

Just now, tomphil said:

Just can't help but think yet again in light of possible FFP restricting spending next season the signing of Brereton is an unmitagated disaster. 

If they'd paid his true worth of a couple of million or if we could get a few million back for him right now it wouldn't be so bad. But the spectre of that money spent and nothing to show for it contributing to the team yet is very hard to take.

Whoever was really responsible for that needs their balls nailing to a fence outside Ewood. 

Terrible use of our limited funds.

Because of his age, could his signing not have come under the development squad/acadamy and as such not apply to FFP calculations? Raya going could also have been a way of balancing things? 

FFP is just an excuse anyway IMO: there's no doubt that Mowbray, Waggott and co. will hide behind that whilst they continue to frustrate the life out of us all.

[Pedro]

44 minutes ago, Prelude said:

If Warnock is made manager of this club I will not watch any Rovers game until he has gone. He is an obnxious cretin

I did similar under Coyle ?

 

In Warnick's defence, he oozes passion and I imagine he is the management equivalent of Bellamy and Savage. Hate them unless they are yours.

[tomphil]

Just now, darrenrover said:

Because of his age, could his signing not have come under the development squad/acadamy and as such not apply to FFP calculations? Raya going could also have been a way of balancing things? 

FFP is just an excuse anyway IMO: there's no doubt that Mowbray, Waggott and co. will hide behind that whilst they continue to frustrate the life out of us all.

That's something iv'e asked about on here a few times it would make more sense if so as to why they'd gamble that amount.

Still think if they'd shaped themselves a bit more they might just have signed a player then for a few million. One maybe a bit more in the Armstrong mould who might be worth a bit more to sell now without damaging the team too much.  Surely that's a better way to go about things rather than be caught inbetween multimillion pound punts or scrabbling around for old age frees on big wages.

[92er]

19 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

In bold, absolutely

2 messages came out of the Shareholders’ meeting. 
In what circumstances would the owners leave the club? None were forthcoming. If the Club were to be promoted, they would not look to sell to recoup any monies they had put into the club, or to clear liabilities.

It was stated the owners were frustrated that they were prevented from putting more money into the club because of the FairPlay rules.

[tomphil]

Just now, 92er said:

2 messages came out of the Shareholders’ meeting. 
In what circumstances would the owners leave the club? None were forthcoming. If the Club were to be promoted, they would not look to sell to recoup any monies they had put into the club, or to clear liabilities.

It was stated the owners were frustrated that they were prevented from putting more money into the club because of the FairPlay rules.

That's the same that was coming out 6 years ago.

As you were.

[darrenrover]

Just now, 92er said:

2 messages came out of the Shareholders’ meeting. 
In what circumstances would the owners leave the club? None were forthcoming. If the Club were to be promoted, they would not look to sell to recoup any monies they had put into the club, or to clear liabilities.

It was stated the owners were frustrated that they were prevented from putting more money into the club because of the FairPlay rules.

If that were the case, then surely you'd employ the best advisors to circumvent the issue? After all, the penalties applied to those found to be non compliant in the past haven't even equated to half a Ben Brereton's cost!

[stinny1]

Why is standing looked upon  has being successful . If so the crowds  will drop off even more. A new manager with a different  approach like a Mark Hughes  who as something  too prove or Hughton  would with a few new faces  get Rovers up there are way a head of TM for spotting a player

[savage90]

Absolutely no chance they will sack Mowbray. 

[darrenrover]

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

That's something iv'e asked about on here a few times it would make more sense if so as to why they'd gamble that amount.

Still think if they'd shaped themselves a bit more they might just have signed a player then for a few million. One maybe a bit more in the Armstrong mould who might be worth a bit more to sell now without damaging the team too much.  Surely that's a better way to go about things rather than be caught inbetween multimillion pound punts or scrabbling around for old age frees on big wages.

Multimillion pound punts, punts on players with historical injury issues and old age freebies, all command big agents commission fees though. Perhaps I've read too many autobiographies!