Tony Mowbray Discussion

[tomphil]

Nixon did a small piece years ago when GB was here about them being frustrated at FFP and wanting to spend.  Just before they potted him then sold everyone who was worth anything which in the long run ended in relegation.

Personally i reckon they did want to spend big after promotion and go for the double bounce. However they were advised they would be better spending it bit by bit over a few years on the like of Brereton, Gallagher etc and the slow build.

Part sound advice part in someone else's interests as always but definitely the wrong players at this juncture.

[stinny1]

If we go on a run like last season it will need the fans to get him out

[darrenrover]

Just now, tomphil said:

Nixon did a small piece years ago when GB was here about them being frustrated at FFP and wanting to spend.  Just before they potted him then sold everyone who was worth anything which in the long run ended in relegation.

Personally i reckon they did want to spend big after promotion and go for the double bounce. However they were advised they would be better spending it bit by bit over a few years on the like of Brereton, Gallagher etc and the slow build.

Part sound advice part in someone else's interests as always but definitely the wrong players at this juncture.

With the experience of having signed Brereton and how that was turning out, to then go and sign Gallagher who we know is not up to much, begs questions surely.

I can't help but go back to Shearers' first game at Palace: we knew we'd got a player!

[tomphil]

10 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

With the experience of having signed Brereton and how that was turning out, to then go and sign Gallagher who we know is not up to much, begs questions surely.

I can't help but go back to Shearers' first game at Palace: we knew we'd got a player!

I'll refer you back to your mention of agents on that one.

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Its a good question. As I said in an earlier post I think we've missed the boat on a number of decent managers. However off the top of my head Grayson would be amongst me too candidates. 

I also wonder about Ross the former Sunderland manager. Yes he didn't get them promoted - albeit it's a graveyard for managers - but they had a good long unbeaten run and doing decently in such a shambles is more of an achievement then it looks. He also did well in Scotland. Houghton as you say is a good call if we can get him. We spend silly money on non scoring strikers so if the will was there I think we could attract him. 

You are right that having incompetent owners hinders us hugely. A decent person in charge of recruitment would be able to assess whether someone was worth a gamble, whether failed roles had been learned from/had mitigating circumstances or whether they weren't that good. Take for example the ex Stoke boss Jones - he did really well prior to Stoke but poor at Stoke. Which is the better indicator of his talent? I'm not sure but a decent recruiter would be able to get a better handle on this and make a more accurate judgement. So yeah, having incompetents lead us does limit the managerial pool. 

That said it doesn't shut the door. Some like Houghton and Grayson I think are proven quality. And maybe Warnock could be tempted if we grovelled with large amounts of cash? Others are a gamble, and whilst we don't know which they are because of poor investigation from the recruiters - they could well be good and better than what we have. Ross would fall into that category for me. 

Now that sounds like a big risk and I appreciate it isn't risk free. The question becomes when is it worth taking the risk. However TM to me is losing the plot - even when he stumbles on a winning formula he rejects it - and the shape we will be in 6 months from now is terrifying (no keeper, defence or decent striker). So to me the risk isn't all that big especially given most managers would do obvious things that would have big gains, such as playing players in position. 

Grayson was awful at Sunderland and he isn't at the best time at Blackpool currently. 

Nathan Jones. Was excellent at Luton. Played some excellent football. at Stoke, his recruitment of players were all over the place. At Stoke he bought players and then played like Vokes, Smith or keeper Davies. Plus he was changing formations every single week. Was the job there too big for him? maybe so. 

Jack Ross. Awful at Sunderland and couldn't get them promotion despite spending millions after millions. and that's at lower league. 

 

4 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Allardyce, Hughes, Pullis, Hughton and Warnock are currently out of work. That's without even considering any up and coming young managers in the lower leagues.

Not saying all of the above would come but I would be surprised if one or two of them wouldn't be interested if enough money was on offer.

and Rev, you need to get realistic and none of those are going to come anywhere near our club or we could even afford their wages and backroom staff. 

My current view has changed from wanting a change of manager to allow Mowbray the season and review his position at the end of the season. Yes we have some players out of contract in the summer but it gives the manager a chance to rebuild the squad. Tho I don't think Bennett is out of contract

Edited December 30, 2019 by chaddyrovers

[Blue blood]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Grayson was awful at Sunderland and he isn't at the best time at Blackpool currently. 

Nathan Jones. Was excellent at Luton. Played some excellent football. at Stoke, his recruitment of players were all over the place. At Stoke he bought players and then played like Vokes, Smith or keeper Davies. Plus he was changing formations every single week. Was the job there too big for him? maybe so. 

Jack Ross. Awful at Sunderland and couldn't get them promotion despite spending millions after millions. and that's at lower league. 

 

and Rev, you need to get realistic and none of those are going to come anywhere near our club or we could even afford their wages and backroom staff. 

My current view has changed from wanting a change of manager to allow Mowbray the season and review his position at the end of the season. Yes we have some players out of contract in the summer but it gives the manager a chance to rebuild the squad. Tho I don't think Bennett is out of contract

Not saying you are wrong (although disagree re Grayson - Sunderland was a failure but who hasn't and 4 promotions) but the highlighted criticisms are all huge issues with TM. You don't want one manager because of his poor recruitment - yet TMs recruitment is poor - has blown tons on inadequate strikers. You don't want another because he chops and changes. TM may have chopped and changed players and their positions on the odd occasion too. TM seems to have many of the flaws that make us turn our nose up at other managers! 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Blue blood said:

Not saying you are wrong (although disagree re Grayson - Sunderland was a failure but who hasn't and 4 promotions) but the highlighted criticisms are all huge issues with TM. You don't want one manager because of his poor recruitment - yet TMs recruitment is poor - has blown tons on inadequate strikers. You don't want another because he chops and changes. TM may have chopped and changed players and their positions on the odd occasion too. TM seems to have many of the flaws that make us turn our nose up at other managers! 

Jones recruitment at Stoke was bizarre for me. 

Grayson recent jobs have been failed and at Sunderland he was awful. He did signed Jason Steele for them

[Blue blood]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Jones recruitment at Stoke was bizarre for me. 

Grayson recent jobs have been failed and at Sunderland he was awful. He did signed Jason Steele for them

My point wad your criticisms are all things TM is doing! 

Also if we hold TMs success if promotion in his favour surely we need to do similar to other managers, especially those with numerous promotions. 

To me TM is judged by a much easier standard or being the first not appalling manager we've had in a while. 

As for Grayson his recent stint at Sunderland was a failure. no others have been. That said signing Steele was a heck of a clanger. 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Blue blood said:

My point wad your criticisms are all things TM is doing! 

Also if we hold TMs success if promotion in his favour surely we need to do similar to other managers, especially those with numerous promotions. 

To me TM is judged by a much easier standard or being the first not appalling manager we've had in a while. 

As for Grayson his recent stint at Sunderland was a failure. no others have been. That said signing Steele was a heck of a clanger. 

Yes I would agree that Mowbray's recruitment at times has been poor. We are right back and centre back short in the squad as I said in the summer after the window chose. 

I have said several times that I wouldn't have signed Gallagher this summer. I said where I would have spent the money and that would have been on the defence. 

Grayson time at Bradford was poor. I'm not sure his time at Blackpool is exactly good. Spoke to couple of Blackpool fans recently and they aren't convince he will take them up. Some of his signings haven't worked out but they are happy to give him the season and judge then

[JHRover]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Jones recruitment at Stoke was bizarre for me. 

Grayson recent jobs have been failed and at Sunderland he was awful. He did signed Jason Steele for them

Interesting. His record at Sunderland was almost identical to that of his successor Chris Coleman, yet I recall you suggesting him as an option not long ago.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, JHRover said:

Interesting. His record at Sunderland was almost identical to that of his successor Chris Coleman, yet I recall you suggesting him as an option not long ago.

Yes I did. 

[Blue blood]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Yes I would agree that Mowbray's recruitment at times has been poor. We are right back and centre back short in the squad as I said in the summer after the window chose. 

I have said several times that I wouldn't have signed Gallagher this summer. I said where I would have spent the money and that would have been on the defence. 

Grayson time at Bradford was poor. I'm not sure his time at Blackpool is exactly good. Spoke to couple of Blackpool fans recently and they aren't convince he will take them up. Some of his signings haven't worked out but they are happy to give him the season and judge then

He wasn't at Bradford very long so quite harsh to judge, but yeah can see that argument. Blackpool I think he has them about level as to where they are at quality wise - a mid table league 1 team. So not sure how that counts as a failure. 

As for Sunderland everyone has failed there including a lot of managers with success elsewhere. Not a complete excuse but I wonder if it says more about the club than the manager. Either way I think he is better than TM who makes basic errors of inconsistent selections and players out of position, as well as blowing our transfer budget - twice! 

[Bbrovers2288]

Not Grayson , of no improvement on mowbray. 
 

would be fine with hughton, Johnson or ainsworth 

[Mr. E]

From Venkys perspective though it is hard to understand, surely they will make more money if we are back in the Premiership? Even if they have to choose a manager that is a bit more annoying (for them) to work with, surely from a business standpoint that is worth the hassle for getting back to the Premiership? They are losing millions every year on us, from what I understand. Are they happy to be in the Championship forever? If so, then it makes sense for them to keep Mowbray. But if not, if they want more profit from this club and want to be in the Premiership - surely there is absolutely no sense or reason in believing that Mowbray can somehow deliver that?

[darrenrover]

The issue surely is who is evaluating Mowbray's position?

It won't be Waggott and unlikely to be a disinterested Venkys unless through an advisor.

Like it or not, I suspect we're stuck with Tony for the foreseeable future.

Yawn, win a few, yawn lose a few, yawn draw a couple, yawn yawn.

[JBiz]

One thing I would like to throw into this debate is our injuries this season have played a part. That’s not subjective - it’s fact. The way we spent money to counter this and our squad development is another thing all together.

The pertinent point missing for me from many summaries of TM - last two games we’ve been forced to call on our squad. That’s not his fault but the depth is his responsibility!

[Athlete]

Just now, darrenrover said:

The issue surely is who is evaluating Mowbray's position?

It won't be Waggott and unlikely to be a disinterested Venkys unless through an advisor.

Like it or not, I suspect we're stuck with Tony for the foreseeable future.

Yawn, win a few, yawn lose a few, yawn draw a couple, yawn yawn.

Mr likeable TM is going nowhere unless a advisor/agent gets in balajis ear and round and round we go.. The question goes back again to why do venkys own us what are they getting out of it etc etc 

TM surrounded on the ground by Waggott venus etc his mates 

[Ossydave]

Just now, Bbrovers2288 said:

Not Grayson , of no improvement on mowbray. 
 

would be fine with hughton, Johnson or ainsworth 

Absolutely agree on Grayson, if we're going through the upheaval of sacking a manager then we sure as hell need to be replacing him with someone better. Statistically Mowbray has been marginally more successful than Grayson in % of games won.

Ainsworth I really don't know about. It's a fairytale type appointment and he does favour an attacking style which would appeal to many. It's just whether it's the right time in his career to make the step up. No doubt he's done a good job at Wycombe but expectations are nowhere near as high, especially at a club that has average crowds of about 5k.  He's never had much money to spend up until the recent takeover. His contacts in the game are most probably lower league where he spent his playing career. In short, he's a massive risk and not sure one we can take.

[tomphil]

A change at the end of the season needs to be a definite upgrade not more of the same. I don't think there's any point in change for changes sake at the min. Been a fan of Grayson in the past but i wouldn't swap him for Mowbray i don't think he seems pretty identikit.

It would needs to be someone with at least a bit of pedigree.

[chaddyrovers]

21 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

He wasn't at Bradford very long so quite harsh to judge, but yeah can see that argument. Blackpool I think he has them about level as to where they are at quality wise - a mid table league 1 team. So not sure how that counts as a failure. 

As for Sunderland everyone has failed there including a lot of managers with success elsewhere. Not a complete excuse but I wonder if it says more about the club than the manager. Either way I think he is better than TM who makes basic errors of inconsistent selections and players out of position, as well as blowing our transfer budget - twice! 

Blackpool are in the similar league position as last season. 

Sunderland seems a poison chalice of a club. And not their current owner Stewart Donald wants to sell the club now.  

 

Just now, darrenrover said:

The issue surely is who is evaluating Mowbray's position?

It won't be Waggott and unlikely to be a disinterested Venkys unless through an advisor.

Like it or not, I suspect we're stuck with Tony for the foreseeable future.

Yawn, win a few, yawn lose a few, yawn draw a couple, yawn yawn.

The owners have backed Mowbray and his plans. He has alot of credit with the owners and they seems a very high level of trust between them. 

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

One thing I would like to throw into this debate is our injuries this season have played a part. That’s not subjective - it’s fact. The way we spent money to counter this and our squad development is another thing all together.

The pertinent point missing for me from many summaries of TM - last two games we’ve been forced to call on our squad. That’s not his fault but the depth is his responsibility!

Yes We enter the Bristol City game with a fully fit squad and since then we have pick up a number of injuries to players. 

[JBiz]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

 

The owners have backed Mowbray and his plans. He has alot of credit with the owners and they seems a very high level of trust between them. 

Yes We enter the Bristol City game with a fully fit squad and since then we have pick up a number of injuries to players. 

Reality is though - could a another manager spent the Brereton and Gally money better?

Nothing is easy in football but your top two signings price wise will often define your long term aims. Currently, neither look equipped to fire us beyond what Dack and co could muster.

Without Dack, we look adrift. I’d even go as far as saying that our dressing room will suffer because it lacks his personality - and thus, I’d suggest the next month is the hardest transfer window to date for TM

[Bbrovers2288]

14 minutes ago, Ossydave said:

Absolutely agree on Grayson, if we're going through the upheaval of sacking a manager then we sure as hell need to be replacing him with someone better. Statistically Mowbray has been marginally more successful than Grayson in % of games won.

Ainsworth I really don't know about. It's a fairytale type appointment and he does favour an attacking style which would appeal to many. It's just whether it's the right time in his career to make the step up. No doubt he's done a good job at Wycombe but expectations are nowhere near as high, especially at a club that has average crowds of about 5k.  He's never had much money to spend up until the recent takeover. His contacts in the game are most probably lower league where he spent his playing career. In short, he's a massive risk and not sure one we can take.

Get what your saying but fergy took over Man Utd when he spent his career in Scotland with only lower league Scottish contacts, sometimes folk just need an opportunity. A gamble - yes. A deserved shot at the bigger stage- I’d say so. Got Wycombe to the top of their league on a shoestring , playing good football . He wouldn’t be my number 1 but he is one I could get behind was my point. Same as Johnson 

[47er]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

The owners have backed Mowbray and his plans. He has alot of credit with the owners and they seems a very high level of trust between them. 

Given Venkys' track record, this is not very reassuring!

 

[Athlete]

3 hours ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Get what your saying but fergy took over Man Utd when he spent his career in Scotland with only lower league Scottish contacts

 scottish sides lol he won the European Cup winners Cup with Aberdeen he was a success on a big stage 

 

[Amo]

3 hours ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Get what your saying but fergy took over Man Utd when he spent his career in Scotland with only lower league Scottish contacts, sometimes folk just need an opportunity. A gamble - yes. A deserved shot at the bigger stage- I’d say so. Got Wycombe to the top of their league on a shoestring , playing good football . He wouldn’t be my number 1 but he is one I could get behind was my point. Same as Johnson 

Do Wycombe play good football? Would be interesting to hear from a few of their fans. 
 

I don’t think we can afford to be too choosy about the style of football we want. Whatever gets results.