Tony Mowbray Discussion

[OldEwoodBlue]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

He's took us down once already. And the standout man for the job is Neil Warnock.

Correct. Not many like to hear it but the cold hard fact is, the same failings we see week in week out, 3 years on, cost us more than enough points to keep us up. Mowbray more than played his part in the relegation. FACT.

[DE.]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

I mentioned Dowie as a joke.

I don't dismiss the £12m - although I think it may well be the case that he was not the instigator of the signing of Brereton - but I don't think sacking him as an act of revenge is the way forward. My view is that the club's financial position and the owners' track record in appointments means that we are best advised to stick - this appears to be a minority view on this board.

Mowbray himself has said he was resposible for signing Brereton so unless we're calling him an outright liar we have to put the blame for that at his door. 

Just now, Husky said:

People were saying that about Groundhog Gaz - who has subsequently gone down to 3rd and then 4th division level.  

I actually see a lot of similarities between Mowbray and Bowyer in how they deal with Venky's and how their teams perform. Two outwardly affable blokes who don't rock the boat, get on with the job and have the majority of players and supporters on their side. Both have issues with tactics, substitutions and motivating their players to go beyond merely acceptable long-term performance. 

[jim mk2]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

He got 22 points from 15 games in that relegation season which extrapolated over a season is comfortable midtable. The man who took us down was his predecessor who got 29 points from 31 games.

 Tony took us down because he was in charge at the time. Rovers' relegation is on his CV. 

[Stuart]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

I mentioned Dowie as a joke.

I don't dismiss the £12m - although I think it may well be the case that he was not the instigator of the signing of Brereton - but I don't think sacking him as an act of revenge is the way forward. My view is that the club's financial position and the owners' track record in appointments means that we are best advised to stick - this appears to be a minority view on this board.

The owners track record in recruiting managers is a close run competition with Mowbray’s track record of recruiting players. (Percentage-wise)

We should not stick with mediocrity. We did exactly that with Bowyer and paid the price.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

 Tony took us down because he was in charge at the time. Rovers' relegation is on his CV. 

Only in the minds of the ignorant - sensible people know to look at things in depth

[jim mk2]

Talking of mediocrity, Rudy Gestede scored his first goal in 2 years today in Boro's win at Preston

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Stuart said:

The owners track record in recruiting managers is a close run competition with Mowbray’s track record of recruiting players. (Percentage-wise)

We should not stick with mediocrity. We did exactly that with Bowyer and paid the price.

Whom have you identified as better than mediocrity ? Would they want to come here given our financial situation ?

[jim mk2]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

Only in the minds of the ignorant - sensible people know to look at things in depth

The ignorant make insults. Sensible people look at the reality that Mowbray was manager when we went down and was unable to save us despite having 15 games to do so. 

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

The ignorant make insults. Sensible people look at the reality that Mowbray was manager when we went down and was unable to save us despite having 15 games to do so. 

He achieved a points per game return about 50% better than his predecessor. I don't know of any walk of life where a manager achieving a 50% improvement in results with the same resources is considered to have done a poor job.

 

[jim mk2]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

Whom have you identified as better than mediocrity ? Would they want to come here given our financial situation ?

Warnock. Offer him a bonus on our promotion - which would provide much needed relief to our financial predicament -  and I'm sure he'd come. 

[jim mk2]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

He achieved a points per game return about 50% better than his predecessor. I don't know of any walk of life where a manager achieving a 50% improvement in results with the same resources is considered to have done a poor job.

 

 I didn't say he did a poor job. That's your words. But we were relegated under his managership and it's on his track record

[Waggy76]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

Warnock. Offer him a bonus on our promotion - which would provide much needed relief to our financial predicament -  and I'm sure he'd come. 

Cannot see anyone getting us promotion with the present squad ...Appoint him with a view to next season , maybe ..

[Pedro]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

Is it really necessary to describe people who have put forward an argument you disagree with as "muppets"? Mowbray is an average manager at this level unlikely to get promotion but equally probably a safe pair of hands in avoiding relegation. Why not name one or two of these better managers ?

We have named them, and named them, and named them.  Have a quick scan over the list of unemployed experienced managers, they are plentiful.

 

And in regards to your question, yes after reading excuse after blinkered excuse (mainly on the Telegraph site) I will refer to such people as muppets - as no valid arguements are ever made, they sneer at anyone critical of the marvellous Mr Mowbray and they simply skirt right around criticism and facts. In response to the suggestion of change, all I ever read is their fear re-packaged up as, "We won't get relegated under him" (which, to a degree, has already happened) "He's honest", "He is a safe pair of hands", "Who will go to India?"  "Why would X, Y or Z come to Rovers?"...it is all absolute, gutless and blinkered bollocks.

We will never do anything under him. We make basic mistake after basic mistake. God only knows how he picks a team and the lack of intensity and amount of fatigue based injuries and omissions shows that we lack fitness. He isn't good enough for where we need to be.

 

[Stuart]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

Whom have you identified as better than mediocrity ? Would they want to come here given our financial situation ?

You’re new. This debate has been done again and again with different posters. They usually realise they are wrong but ignore the names put forward.

Why would a manager come here? See the list of reasons I posted why Mowbray won’t walk.

Blackburn Rovers is currently a manager’s dream job. Warnock applies last time!

[Amo]

2 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I mentioned Dowie as a joke.

I don't dismiss the £12m - although I think it may well be the case that he was not the instigator of the signing of Brereton - but I don't think sacking him as an act of revenge is the way forward. My view is that the club's financial position and the owners' track record in appointments means that we are best advised to stick - this appears to be a minority view on this board.

Revenge? You're really exposing your bias here using such emotive language. Like I said, you seem to be putting Mowbray's interests before our own. 

[K-Hod]

27 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

You don't want to hear it because the Mowbray Out argument is hugely weakened when considering his successor. The accounts strongly suggest that the club will face significant constraints in the transfer market due to the FFP rules thereby reducing the attraction of the job here to prospective managers. Additionally there is Venkys track record in appointing managers which suggests we are more likely to get someone worse.

FFP considerations we have to make, because Mowbray spent £12 Million on two strikers that don’t score £12 Million worth of goals.

One of whom, we apparently aren’t allowed to judge yet....

[Amo]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

Warnock. Offer him a bonus on our promotion - which would provide much needed relief to our financial predicament -  and I'm sure he'd come. 

A straight-talking man who will be in no mood to fly out to Pune to kiss the ring. Can't see it happening.  

[rigger]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

He achieved a points per game return about 50% better than his predecessor. I don't know of any walk of life where a manager achieving a 50% improvement in results with the same resources is considered to have done a poor job.

 

Football management.

[jim mk2]

Just now, Waggy76 said:

Cannot see anyone getting us promotion with the present squad ...Appoint him with a view to next season , maybe ..

It's not the worst squad, and we're still only 4 points off 6th place with lots of games to play. Don't you think that a tough nasty bastard like Warnock wouldn't get more out of our players? 

[Riverside under the drip]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

Whom have you identified as better than mediocrity ? Would they want to come here given our financial situation ?

This argument has been made for years when discussing managers all the way back to Bowyer. Managers we have already missed out on include: Rowett, Cowley, Holloway, Warnock, Pearson, Hughton etc etc etc. Right now, the likes of Ainsworth I think would be an improvement.

We could do this forever but the real talent pool lies in managers who we've never heard of. Had you ever heard of Wagner or Farke? If you had, fair enough but I hadn't. They got their teams promoted with no real investment or talent pool much greater than our own. Howe got Bournemouth up without massive investment. I am not employed by the club to identify targets across the continent but I would imagine someone at the club is at least vaguely aware of some coaches who are doing well at their current clubs.

I don't see how fans who want a change can be blasted for being negative then blasted again for positively believing there are better managers/coaches than Tony Mowbray alive in the world today.

[Pedro]

At the start of this transfer window and with a free hit FA Cup match on the horizon is as good a time we'll get to make a change.

 

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Riverside under the drip said:

This argument has been made for years when discussing managers all the way back to Bowyer. Managers we have already missed out on include: Rowett, Cowley, Holloway, Warnock, Pearson, Hughton etc etc etc. Right now, the likes of Ainsworth I think would be an improvement.

We could do this forever but the real talent pool lies in managers who we've never heard of. Had you ever heard of Wagner or Farke? If you had, fair enough but I hadn't. They got their teams promoted with no real investment or talent pool much greater than our own. Howe got Bournemouth up without massive investment. I am not employed by the club to identify targets across the continent but I would imagine someone at the club is at least vaguely aware of some coaches who are doing well at their current clubs.

I don't see how fans who want a change can be blasted for being negative then blasted again for positively believing there are better managers/coaches than Tony Mowbray alive in the world today.

No - I hadn't heard of Wagner or Farke. I have no idea if there is anybody at the club with the sort of knowledge to do what you suggest - the owners seem to favour the use of agents and external consultants for this sort of thing. Nobody on here is blasting other fans for being negative for wanting a charge - it's just a minority of us are trying to point out there are potential pitfalls which in our view point to keeping the manager.

[Riverside under the drip]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

No - I hadn't heard of Wagner or Farke. I have no idea if there is anybody at the club with the sort of knowledge to do what you suggest - the owners seem to favour the use of agents and external consultants for this sort of thing. Nobody on here is blasting other fans for being negative for wanting a charge - it's just a minority of us are trying to point out there are potential pitfalls which in our view point to keeping the manager.

Fair enough. Genuine question. At what point would you think the risk would be greater keeping him? For me, the eye-watering debts and risk of Venkys finally clearing off mean we HAVE to kick on and get promoted as soon as possible with no time for 'stability' and treading water for the next few years. To me therefore, bumbling around mid-table is as bad as the risk of relegation. That's why I want a change as Mowbray's entire career points to this being a period of stagnation.

[Waggy76]

2 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

It's not the worst squad, and we're still only 4 points off 6th place with lots of games to play. Don't you think that a tough nasty bastard like Warnock wouldn't get more out of our players? 

He would but very little up top and Dack out months ....

The thing with Dack being out is that the opposition have very little to fear...

[jim mk2]

Just now, Waggy76 said:

He would but very little up top and Dack out months ....

The thing with Dack being out is that the opposition have very little to fear...

 I'm certain Colin would stop us conceding so many though - and we would have a defined shape and consistent selection.