Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

We really lack leaders in the club.  Johnson may be the only one who'll get angry with those around him. 

Possibly Lennihan... Then that's it. 

 

 

[tomphil]

13 hours ago, Mercer said:

Hodgson is a bloody good coach - don't think Mowbray can coach !

Roy was / is notorious for his defensive drills.  

Lower level Hodgson i did say but to be honest i struggle to agree certainly at top level he was awful but like a few others he's more suited to the smaller less expectant jobs.

[tomphil]

Houghton would certainly fit the bill but he'll be well coveted and probably end up at Huddersfield or similar.

Yet again i'm convinced certain people involved at Rovers will be happy to plod then dismantle the squad again whilst also hoping to double money on the big signings.  Middlemen and their motives still worry me.

It's genuinely bizarre why any manager would try and build a team from front to back using up big money whilst knowing and acknowledging he has one of the weakest defences in the league. That's before we start on the keeper situation or Mulgrew, both trying to be replaced by young loanees or a coverted plodding lower level left back.

Second summer in succession they've invested big money in the wrong area of the team and even that doesn't look like reaping any rewards yet.

Something as always under Venkys just doesn't add up at all.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

If we had anybody running the show with an ounce of footballing knowledge we'd be knocking on Chris Hughton's door this morning.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

7 hours ago, Wood26 said:

I find that wanting Mowbray out is ridiculous. He got us out League 1 (look at Sunderland) and we had a good run last season until we fell away.

More importantly, he has settled Venkys. Don’t underestimate this. 

Those saying sign Austin over Gallagher don’t understand our model. We spend 5million on assumption we will make money on him one day, we won’t be spending that on the likes of Austin.

Better the devil you know on this one.

Anybody who thinks Gallagher will score more goals at this level than Austin needs to give their head a wobble.  If we're looking at long term investments instead of assets that can have an immediate impact we're in the wrong game, 

[Rogerb]

Chris Hughton is five years older than TM

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If we had anybody running the show with an ounce of footballing knowledge we'd be knocking on Chris Hughton's door this morning.

He would be the one for me.

BUT Mowbray's job is his for as long as he wants and he's got his Lieutenant Venus and Seargeant Major Waggott to think about as well as his family expenses and pension fund.

[DE.]

8 hours ago, Wood26 said:

I find that wanting Mowbray out is ridiculous. He got us out League 1 (look at Sunderland) and we had a good run last season until we fell away.

More importantly, he has settled Venkys. Don’t underestimate this. 

Those saying sign Austin over Gallagher don’t understand our model. We spend 5million on assumption we will make money on him one day, we won’t be spending that on the likes of Austin.

Better the devil you know on this one.

I understand your sentiments, but you can't trade on past glories at this level. Everyone appreciates that TM got us out of League 1 at the first attempt, but we aren't in League 1 anymore. That's a division where Bolton can pick up a point despite not even being able to field half a dozen senior players. This is a much tougher level, and whilst I don't consider last season a disaster by any stretch of the imagination, everybody could see the warning signs with our poor runs of form and alarming tendency to concede a lot of goals away from home. Some people are happy to forget all about that and treat this season as a clean slate, and if so then fair enough, but I think it's also totally fair for fans to take last season into account when judging how we're performing this season. 

Your point on Venky's is valid but we've been here before with Bowyer. It doesn't take much for the switch to flick back to madness and Mowbray isn't in control of that. 

 

 

[Stuart]

I’m looking forward to us winning one game and the ensuing “were r all the haters now??” backlash.

Because we’ll have won a game.

Funny that they don’t tend to concern themselves about ‘only one game’ when that happens though.

[JHRover]

8 hours ago, Wood26 said:

I find that wanting Mowbray out is ridiculous. He got us out League 1 (look at Sunderland) and we had a good run last season until we fell away.

 

What does getting us out of League One more than 12 months ago have to do with the current situation? Since then we've spent £15 million and in my view look like we could easily be relegation fodder this season. 

Do we just stick with him regardless of results for the next 10 years because he got us up from League One and had a decent first half to last season?

Form in 2019 has been dreadful. Recruitment has been mediocre at best. We continue to leak goals and are toothless in attack. Things have to improve and if they don't the manager will have to go.

[J*B]

History repeating itself. 

[Tormund]

Just now, J*B said:

History repeating itself. 

Same happened at Coventry didn’t it? Failed to get a solid CB in?

[J*B]

Just now, Tormund said:

Same happened at Coventry didn’t it? Failed to get a solid CB in?

Second one is Coventry. First one Celtic. 

[DE.]

I posted this link in the match thread, but it's worth posting here as well just due to the striking similarities with our current situation:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2010/mar/25/tony-mowbray-celtic-manager-sacking

"Celtic finished Wednesday's defeat with six strikers on the field. Their most creative player, Aiden McGeady, appeared to be deployed at left-back."

"In a none-too-subtle dig at Rangers, Mowbray claimed perhaps "negative" and "defensive" football represented his best hope of success. Such a notion is undermined by the fact Rangers have scored eight more league goals than their city rivals this season. Equally pertinently, Mowbray had similar struggles in England's top flight a year ago as his West Bromwich Albion team were relegated with a shocking goal difference of -31."

"Yet there followed little evidence that Mowbray's undoubted ability to spot and sign the quality of player necessary to succeed in Scotland could be matched by the talent to use that personnel effectively. In a city where time is not a football commodity, the inability of Celtic's new signings to hit the ground running was fatal."

"While insisting, rightly, that the level of scrutiny afforded to him was considerably more intense than when he was in charge of West Bromwich or Hibernian, Mowbray undermined his subsequent assertions that such attentions did not worry him with an agitated or confrontational manner. Mowbray, in truth, was subjected to no more or less criticism than Burley, Berti Vogts, Paul Le Guen or John Barnes endured during their own traumatic spells in Scottish football."

"Even Celtic insiders privately shook their heads at their manager's constant references to football ideology, how he "builds teams" as if instant success is an unexpected by-product, rather than the possible bedfellow of changes in personnel. The fact some of those changes included players signed on loan, the £68,000-a-week Robbie Keane among them, suggested at least someone at Celtic was aware short-term success is necessary for the club."

From the comments...

"No semblence of tactics - not even the tiniest bit of compromise in his "attacking football" philosophy despite it obviously not working - Desperate substitutions worthy of Football Manager 2010 (ie - i'm not winning, i'll just chuck on 6 strikers) - Sold the basis if what was a fairly decent, if unspectacular side - a former defender who cannot organise a defence."

"Goodbye and good luck to a thoroughly decent man, but an awfully incompetent manager. I could spend the rest of the day chatting about how crap the team has been. We have more talent individually than we did last year, but not a single scrap of organization to build it. Not to mention the lopsided nature of the squad - 45 wingers, 275 strikers and just two vaguely-defensive midfielders, one of whom can't tackle and the other of whom can't pass."

"I am glad he is gone, and that people realise he isn't that great a manager which I know sounds harsh, but it pisses me off that he always blamed lack of good results on playing the game a certain way. His failures had nothing to do with that - it was the very bad defence which he picked and played.

At West Brom he kept saying that he would 'stick to his principles' etc etc - but you could still play decent football and win games, many teams manage that. It seemed to be his comfort blanket that apparently his teams played good football, but I am not sure West Brom fans were that amused watching them every Saturday and eventually getting relegated."

"He was out of his depth.

Never mind the "attack-minded football" - Mowbray ripped up the back 4 without seeming to have a plan in mind.

He slagged off his players in public.

His press conferences were hand-in-mouth bad."

"That Mowbray failed is no surprise. At WBA he had a reputation for building sides that where attractive in attack, but weak at the back."

"I never thought Mowbray looked like he had a clue what he was doing. You need to be intelligent to be a football manager, and , sadly, he looked to be sorely lacking in that department. Some of his post-match interviews were embarassing, like when he openly criticized particular players(you just can't do that), or when he admitted that he didn't enjoy being the manager-dreadful."

[Tormund]

Just now, DE. said:

I posted this link in the match thread, but it's worth posting here as well just due to the striking similarities with our current situation:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2010/mar/25/tony-mowbray-celtic-manager-sacking

"Celtic finished Wednesday's defeat with six strikers on the field. Their most creative player, Aiden McGeady, appeared to be deployed at left-back."

"In a none-too-subtle dig at Rangers, Mowbray claimed perhaps "negative" and "defensive" football represented his best hope of success. Such a notion is undermined by the fact Rangers have scored eight more league goals than their city rivals this season. Equally pertinently, Mowbray had similar struggles in England's top flight a year ago as his West Bromwich Albion team were relegated with a shocking goal difference of -31."

"Yet there followed little evidence that Mowbray's undoubted ability to spot and sign the quality of player necessary to succeed in Scotland could be matched by the talent to use that personnel effectively. In a city where time is not a football commodity, the inability of Celtic's new signings to hit the ground running was fatal."

"While insisting, rightly, that the level of scrutiny afforded to him was considerably more intense than when he was in charge of West Bromwich or Hibernian, Mowbray undermined his subsequent assertions that such attentions did not worry him with an agitated or confrontational manner. Mowbray, in truth, was subjected to no more or less criticism than Burley, Berti Vogts, Paul Le Guen or John Barnes endured during their own traumatic spells in Scottish football."

"Even Celtic insiders privately shook their heads at their manager's constant references to football ideology, how he "builds teams" as if instant success is an unexpected by-product, rather than the possible bedfellow of changes in personnel. The fact some of those changes included players signed on loan, the £68,000-a-week Robbie Keane among them, suggested at least someone at Celtic was aware short-term success is necessary for the club."

From the comments...

"No semblence of tactics - not even the tiniest bit of compromise in his "attacking football" philosophy despite it obviously not working - Desperate substitutions worthy of Football Manager 2010 (ie - i'm not winning, i'll just chuck on 6 strikers) - Sold the basis if what was a fairly decent, if unspectacular side - a former defender who cannot organise a defence."

"Goodbye and good luck to a thoroughly decent man, but an awfully incompetent manager. I could spend the rest of the day chatting about how crap the team has been. We have more talent individually than we did last year, but not a single scrap of organization to build it. Not to mention the lopsided nature of the squad - 45 wingers, 275 strikers and just two vaguely-defensive midfielders, one of whom can't tackle and the other of whom can't pass."

"I am glad he is gone, and that people realise he isn't that great a manager which I know sounds harsh, but it pisses me off that he always blamed lack of good results on playing the game a certain way. His failures had nothing to do with that - it was the very bad defence which he picked and played.

At West Brom he kept saying that he would 'stick to his principles' etc etc - but you could still play decent football and win games, many teams manage that. It seemed to be his comfort blanket that apparently his teams played good football, but I am not sure West Brom fans were that amused watching them every Saturday and eventually getting relegated."

"He was out of his depth.

Never mind the "attack-minded football" - Mowbray ripped up the back 4 without seeming to have a plan in mind.

He slagged off his players in public.

His press conferences were hand-in-mouth bad."

"That Mowbray failed is no surprise. At WBA he had a reputation for building sides that where attractive in attack, but weak at the back."

"I never thought Mowbray looked like he had a clue what he was doing. You need to be intelligent to be a football manager, and , sadly, he looked to be sorely lacking in that department. Some of his post-match interviews were embarassing, like when he openly criticized particular players(you just can't do that), or when he admitted that he didn't enjoy being the manager-dreadful."

Sounds like he hasn’t learnt one bit then.

[Stuart]

Just now, Tormund said:

Sounds like he hasn’t learnt one bit then.

Or he really believes his way is the right one and he is able to make excuses to himself about why it didn’t work there.

[DE.]

Just now, Tormund said:

Sounds like he hasn’t learnt one bit then.

It's clear that Mowbray is not a manager who learns from his mistakes. He sticks stubbornly to his guns even when everything is burning down around him, lashing out at the media, other clubs and his own players. I was stunned by how much of that article and the comments describe exactly what is happening right now. An unbalanced squad, an inability to defend, poor substitutions and tactics, criticising players in public, agitation with the media, baffling press conferences, the "building a team" excuse... the writing is on the wall. This isn't going to end well for him or for us because he is incapable of adapting or changing. It's just a question of how bad it gets.

[Mattyblue]

The fact he openly lamented that not buying a big, ugly centre half cost him his job at Coventry, yet what we’ve just witnessed in the last window says he has alarming blind spots that could well cost him another.

[chaddyrovers]

Mowbray deserved time and patience from us. He has put the pride into the club and rebuilt a club after previous managers at the club. 

But its a results business and Mowbray need to produce. 

When talking about replacements people need to remember don't pay big wages like some other championship. 

I was around at some friends last night and we started discussing possible replacements for Mowbray after one of them thought Mowbray couldn't get us top 6 this season for a number of reasons including a lack of experience championship defender like Jansson or Hector. His Choice was David Moyes but accepted that was unlikely due to his wage demands. We said that Hughton was unrealistic due to his wages and the fact he turned down Sheff Wed job cos he was a PL job. Rowett was discussed but we were put off by his failure at Stoke. Pulis is yesterday man and football has move on from his boring style of management. Adkins was discussed as possible replacement. I suggested us moving towards a sporting director/head coach structure which would be my preference as I have discussed the merits on here. My choice to replace Mowbray if he was sack would be Damien Johnson as head coach and bring in a sporting director like Mike Rigg(who is at Burnley but doesn't seem to be influence signings there) or Brentford Phil Giles to focus on the recruitment and scouting side of the club allowing someone like Johnson to focus on the training ground stuff like Tactics, Training, etc. I will say this again to be clear and that no one miss understands what I have say I am still backing Mowbray 100% and I really hope he turns results around. But above I have discussed what I would do if he did leave

Edited August 11, 2019 by chaddyrovers

[RV Blue]

I’ve never seen a man so confident in a nonexistent style of play.

[briansol]

For me it's far too soon to have consider Mowbray out. We are only two games into the season. Should give it closer to Christmas to before judging.

Ultimately the manager is judged on results, which Mowbray is very aware of. So what are the facts?:

- We finished 18/19 with 16 wins, 12 draws and 18 losses. Not great, not bad for first season back in Championship. There was a very poor run from Feb to April, but we ended the season with 4 wins, 1 draw and 1 loss. 

- This year should show improvement in results, but you cannot judge after two games in a 46 game season. At that rate Daniel Franke would have been sacked last season. 

 

 

 

 

[Crimpshrine]

Just now, briansol said:

For me it's far too soon to have consider Mowbray out. We are only two games into the season. Should give it closer to Christmas to before judging.

This year should show improvement in results, but you cannot judge after two games in a 46 game season. At that rate Daniel Franke would have been sacked last season. 

 

 

 

 

We have been awful since last Christmas! We can't possibly give him until next Christmas if the next few weeks don't show an improvement.

The slate is not wiped clean at the end of each season. No one is judging on two games alone.

[Scotland1]

6 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

I’ve never seen a man so confident in a nonexistent style of play.

We don’t have a style we look confused, unfit, unorganised and passionless. Hell staring at paper is more entertaining than Rovers. We are boring, we are predictable and if I was the opposition looking at our teamsheet there isn’t a Rovers player I’d be intimidated by or thinking “I’m in a battle” today. Mowbray like his team is gutless.

12plus like my “Bring back Hughes” post, that’s because they know he will identify a pattern of play and at least Instill some steel into this squad.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Scotland1

[briansol]

Just now, Crimpshrine said:

We have been awful since last Christmas! We can't possibly give him until next Christmas if the next few weeks don't show an improvement.

The slate is not wiped clean at the end of each season. No one is judging on two games alone.

We haven't been awful since Christmas. We had a great spell in January was great and the finished the season well with 4-1-1.  

Sounds like we agree though in giving him time to improve. I'm not suggesting that giving him untill Christmas if we continue to lose every game and are in the relegation zone. "Mowbray out" two games in is a bit premature and it sounds like you agree.

 

[chaddyrovers]

18 hours ago, Darwen Rover 007 said:

Jokanavic in before it's too late! 

Jokanvic is Qatari club Al-Gharafa. So likely to be millions per season out there. We wont be matching their wages

18 hours ago, Theyak1986 said:

Garry Monk is available! 

Ive been a massive Mowbray supporter but the transfer window and his so called tactics have made me turn against him

Monk wont get a job soon after the claims clubs have made about him and his agent

17 hours ago, Scotland1 said:

 Bring back Hughes

Do you really think he would drop down to the championship? 

14 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

 

In these times of FFP, a Director of Football has to be looked at going forward.

Big fan of the sporting director and Head coach structure. Something we should be looking at