Tony Mowbray Discussion

[JBiz]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

The way he inherited the club is not really an excuse that justifies the shape of his squad after spending over 15m over the space of 5 windows.

I’m talking about Dyche inherited a complete different animal to our club. Different job entirely.

2 of those windows are also League 1. I’m not convinced that did the best we could mind, but at least 3 windows of TM would’ve been tinged with discussions about being or recently being league 1. Wages massively impacted.

Just now, roversfan99 said:

You touch on the centre backs issue, it is criminal that firstly we had last summer, where he got Rodwell as our third centre back, obviously that backfired, but hes had 2 summers since to fix it and add quality and depth to that position, hes simply not done that. Lenihan is injury prone so we are left with 2 centre backs backed up by a kid who couldnt get on Stanleys bench, and another who has made 8 senior appearances, all in League 2.

I also felt we had a criminal shortage of quality wingers and attackers after two league one windows. So whilst hindsight now points me in a “fuck Brereton, should’ve signed a CB”, I’m not sure it was as obvious at the time.

Equally I’m not convinced there are simple fixes to any position - let alone a defender to come in and be instantly a top 6 level fixture.

Just now, roversfan99 said:

But its not just that, we are imbalanced throughout. Right back, blind loyalty to a poor midfielder playing there, with only one natural RB on the books. Out wide, plenty of strikers shoehorned there and unable to make an impact there. And £12m on 2 number 9's who have not suggested that they are a patch on our veteran.

Our veteran surely can’t be staying around for too much longer. The same dissenting voices pointed out how weak without Graham we would’ve been last season. We needed recruitment upfront AND defence and whilst I’m quite sure we will all fall into “tosin fans”, it’s not difficult to see why the criticism has turned to defensive recruits!

Especially when all momentum was thrown away last season on allowing Downing out, and a Lenihan injury!

[Mercer]

1 minute ago, Gary C said:

After two games it's very early to make any rash decisions. Yes we were poor against Charlton. Didn't attend the Fulham game but from what I've read they were slightly better. I hope we can have a morale boosting win against Oldham which will hopefully let us kick on against Middlesbrough. COYB

Middlesbrough have started poorly. 

If Woodgate is the answer then no one knew the question!

Mowbray to get his first league win of the season!  If we don't beat M'boro then we really, really do have problems.

[Gary C]

Just now, Mercer said:

Middlesbrough have started poorly. 

If Woodgate is the answer then no one knew the question!

Mowbray to get his first league win of the season!  If we don't beat M'boro then we really, really do have problems.

If we haven't got any points after the new few games it is reason for concern. I agree that we will beat Boro let's just hope were both right

[tomphil]

Boro is rarely an easy game so i wouldn't be expecting the resounding reaction to a defeat win just yet.

[RV Blue]

35 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

I can’t believe people are saying we should replace TM with Damien Johnson! Replace an experienced manager with someone who has never managed apart from at youth team level?! Beyond words. Once he lost a few games, they’d be saying “let’s get an experienced man in”. 

I would hazard a guess that many of the people wanting TM out are the same people who wanted TM out when we lost our first two league games in lge 1. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are also the same people who said we needed an experienced manager when we kept appointing rookies one...and now they want a rookie one in Damien Johnson. I would obviously take a Hughes or an Allardyce over TM, but we’d likely go with a cheap option to replace him, most like Johnson. I wouldn’t want that. 

Mowbray has improved us year on year and has also proved the doubters wrong and come through the sticky spells. He’s also shown he knows how to win football matches in this league and built a squad full of good young players. Time to back him over the next couple of months and then re-evaluate when the league has settled down. 

Experienced in failure, I’d rather not have that.

[Tormund]

If we lose against Boro, can’t see us winning at Hull either! 

[Angry_Pirate]

Given the accumulated difficulty of the next four games, where even playing well you could still be well beaten in some and even lose all 4.

Hypothetical question:

Would people rather we did lose all four, as opposed to say fluking a point or 3... if it meant Mowbray would be sacked after 6 games?

Before someone jumps on me saying "support the team, not a true fan, wanting us to lose etc etc" - I'm not saying that, i do want a change of manager, true, however I'm just stating it's a real possibility that we lose them anyway...

I'd rather we played our best players and got 12 points. But Mowbray out after 6 games wouldn't be terrible either.

Could be in quite a bad position come September ?

[roversfan99]

37 minutes ago, Harry The Bass said:

I’m talking about Dyche inherited a complete different animal to our club. Different job entirely.

2 of those windows are also League 1. I’m not convinced that did the best we could mind, but at least 3 windows of TM would’ve been tinged with discussions about being or recently being league 1. Wages massively impacted.

I also felt we had a criminal shortage of quality wingers and attackers after two league one windows. So whilst hindsight now points me in a “fuck Brereton, should’ve signed a CB”, I’m not sure it was as obvious at the time.

Equally I’m not convinced there are simple fixes to any position - let alone a defender to come in and be instantly a top 6 level fixture.

Our veteran surely can’t be staying around for too much longer. The same dissenting voices pointed out how weak without Graham we would’ve been last season. We needed recruitment upfront AND defence and whilst I’m quite sure we will all fall into “tosin fans”, it’s not difficult to see why the criticism has turned to defensive recruits!

Especially when all momentum was thrown away last season on allowing Downing out, and a Lenihan injury!

One of my main points about whether the striking ranks needed to be improved or not is regarding the actual quality of strikers. I dont think either Gallagher or Brereton would get in many if any other Championship sides, nor am I convinced about their potential to make us a profit in the future. Whilst I maintain that we certainlt didnt need both ahead of a defender or 2, even with both we seem short of quality up top. 12m down, thats not good enough.

There arent "simple fixes" thats why different qualities of managers tend to improve their respective teams to varying degrees but thats not an excuse, managers are judged on their abilities to develop their teams and the results that follow. And going back to League 1 windows, his best signing came in one of them.

To have 3 centre backs and one right back in the squad is unexplainable. You mention signing wingers, hes signed 2, one whose age and loss of pace has made him more of a utility man, and the other is nowhere to be seen.

[tomphil]

Such a difficult call and it has a similar feel to GBs last months where we played quite well but kept losing and he kept faith in certain players who weren't up to it but he had the misfortune of a period of FFP and best players beginning to be sold  from underneath him.  Oh how he'd have loved the chance to invest like this manager has although we have to say the league is tougher than then and he did have Hanley and Duffy but never put his finger on the full back situation.

He was potted after an indifferent start even though things stacked against him but what followed was far far worse !

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Angry_Pirate said:

Given the accumulated difficulty of the next four games, where even playing well you could still be well beaten in some and even lose all 4.

Hypothetical question:

Would people rather we did lose all four, as opposed to say fluking a point or 3... if it meant Mowbray would be sacked after 6 games?

Before someone jumps on me saying "support the team, not a true fan, wanting us to lose etc etc" - I'm not saying that, i do want a change of manager, true, however I'm just stating it's a real possibility that we lose them anyway...

I'd rather we played our best players and got 12 points. But Mowbray out after 6 games wouldn't be terrible either.

Could be in quite a bad position come September ?

Who says he going to sack if we did lose the next 4? 

What happens if we got 7 or 8 points from the next 4 games? 

Anything can happen in life. Who says the next appointment will be any better? 

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Gary C said:

After two games it's very early to make any rash decisions. Yes we were poor against Charlton. Didn't attend the Fulham game but from what I've read they were slightly better. I hope we can have a morale boosting win against Oldham which will hopefully let us kick on against Middlesbrough. COYB

Gary. Nobody... nobody... is making a judgment after two games.

Well, apart from those people who have forgotten/ignored everything except the last two games...

[Paul Mellelieu]

Just now, Stuart said:

Gary. Nobody... nobody... is making a judgment after two games.

Well, apart from those people who have forgotten/ignored everything except the last two games...

Making a judgement after three seasons, not two games.  TM deserves a chance to get the season going - and a little loyalty.  

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Who says he going to sack if we did lose the next 4? 

What happens if we got 7 or 8 points from the next 4 games? 

Anything can happen in life. Who says the next appointment will be any better? 

With this bunch of charlatans in charge anything can happen and it will probably be bad. Having said that sticking with Mowbray until it's too late could be worse.

[Stuart]

24 minutes ago, Angry_Pirate said:

Given the accumulated difficulty of the next four games, where even playing well you could still be well beaten in some and even lose all 4.

Hypothetical question:

Would people rather we did lose all four, as opposed to say fluking a point or 3... if it meant Mowbray would be sacked after 6 games?

Before someone jumps on me saying "support the team, not a true fan, wanting us to lose etc etc" - I'm not saying that, i do want a change of manager, true, however I'm just stating it's a real possibility that we lose them anyway...

I'd rather we played our best players and got 12 points. But Mowbray out after 6 games wouldn't be terrible either.

Could be in quite a bad position come September ?

I get the sentiment but I really don’t want zero points from six games.

I guess the hypothetical question would need to have an incentive: we stay up and get someone like Hughes instead.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Paul Mellelieu said:

Making a judgement after three seasons, not two games.  TM deserves a chance to get the season going - and a little loyalty.  

Were do you think we'd have been playing if we'd have given Paul Ince 3 seasons ?

[Stuart]

Just now, Paul Mellelieu said:

Making a judgement after three seasons, not two games.  TM deserves a chance to get the season going - and a little loyalty.  

Very naive. There is no loyalty in football.

Since February we are running at a return of less than one point per game - including dead rubbers. And it’s getting worse.

[Eddie]

23 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 I dont think either Gallagher or Brereton would get in many if any other Championship sides

Impossible to take that comment seriously. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Eddie said:

Impossible to take that comment seriously. 

Please do explain?

[Gary C]

Just now, Paul Mellelieu said:

Making a judgement after three seasons, not two games.  TM deserves a chance to get the season going - and a little loyalty.  

He deserves a chance to get the season going I agree. I also agree like I've stated before that he hasn't bought decent defensive options to the club. But hes the best manager we have had since we've dropped out of the premier league. He could have bought better but we dont know how much his hands are tied with Venkys releasing funds etc. 

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

29 minutes ago, Stuart said:

I get the sentiment but I really don’t want zero points from six games.

I guess the hypothetical question would need to have an incentive: we stay up and get someone like Hughes instead.

Not a chance Hughes would come back 

[Sparks Rover]

8 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

Not a chance Hughes would come back 

I would if I was him. What else could he get?

[RevidgeBlue]

49 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

Making a judgement after three seasons, not two games.  TM deserves a chance to get the season going - and a little loyalty.  

For me it became obvious he wasn't the man to take us forward last season and he should have been relieved of his duties around February or March. There then followed an absolutely abysmal transfer window so the only thing that would surprise me is that if anyone was surprised by our poor start.

Nevertheless: having not got rid of him last season and given him this window I'd concede you need to give him ten matches or so to try and turn things round.

Out of interest, where would you stand if we're on two or three points after ten games and five points adrift at the bottom of the table?

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

I would if I was him. What else could he get?

Hypothetically If we offered him enough money, of course he'd come.

His stock has fallen dramatically recently so it's not like he has the pick of all the top jobs these days.

[47er]

3 hours ago, rovers11 said:

I can’t believe people are saying we should replace TM with Damien Johnson! Replace an experienced manager with someone who has never managed apart from at youth team level?! Beyond words. Once he lost a few games, they’d be saying “let’s get an experienced man in”. 

I would hazard a guess that many of the people wanting TM out are the same people who wanted TM out when we lost our first two league games in lge 1. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are also the same people who said we needed an experienced manager when we kept appointing rookies one...and now they want a rookie one in Damien Johnson. I would obviously take a Hughes or an Allardyce over TM, but we’d likely go with a cheap option to replace him, most like Johnson. I wouldn’t want that. 

Mowbray has improved us year on year and has also proved the doubters wrong and come through the sticky spells. He’s also shown he knows how to win football matches in this league and built a squad full of good young players. Time to back him over the next couple of months and then re-evaluate when the league has settled down. 

I'm the last poster to refer to Johnno but I never said I wanted him. What I, and others, have said is, that if Venkys sack TM they will most likely turn to Johnno as its their preferred route.

Whether he would make a success of it or not is unknown which is normal for Venkys. However I would prefer him to get the chance than see the typical hopeless left-field Venky appointment. I won't depress everyone with the list.

I'd say that's a common reaction. If Venkys had a good track record with managers the cries for sacking Mowbray would be overwhelming. What prevents revolt is the fear about what idiot would replace him.

[Husky]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 I dont think either Gallagher or Brereton would get in many if any other Championship sides,

 

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Impossible to take that comment seriously. 

 

A 17th placed Championship team didn't think Brereton was up to scratch and a Championship team that finished 8 points below us last season didn't think Gallagher was worth signing. So you can see where roversfan99 might be coming from.