Tony Mowbray Discussion

[tomphil]

  On 14/02/2020 at 12:46, Leonard Venkhater said:

Absolutely.

Another issue arises when the same agency has significant "interest" in more than one club. There was certainly a big SEM influence at Bolton.

I remember one journalist asking about the implications of two "SEM" clubs playing each other at the business end of the season, with one of them in the drop zone.

The same article cited Pulis at Stoke, Coyle at Bolton and Kean at Rovers.

Also, I think I am right that the mysterious Suhail-or someone with the same name-appeared on Linkedin, as an employee of SEM...

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Venkys - Shadowman - Former SEM 'satellite' mob  ----- New Blackburn manager

I think that's how it works so Steve would have to get used to that if the situation arose, then again he probably has a direct line in there as well !

[Dreams of 1995]

All of the above is modern football in a nutshell. For such a global sport it is a very close circle, each infesting different parts. The truth is what happened to us was sin, we got on the wrong side of a deal that has been done many times before and many times since. When an agency gets so involved in a football club there will only be one winner in the end. In the case of Wolves both sides are winning, right now, but that could change at the drop of a hat if Mendes isn't placated.

Unfortunately for us our agent(s) are bad. They don't have the talent pool and in our early days were interested in lining their pockets only. Now you get an idea the right kind of people are at the club but there's still that potential for the 'odd' signing that raises a few eyebrows. A horrible symptom of a sport gone bad.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Dreams of 1995

[Exiled in Toronto]

  On 14/02/2020 at 14:45, Dreams of 1995 said:

All of the above is modern football in a nutshell. For such a global sport it is a very close circle, each infesting different parts. The truth is what happened to us was sin, we got on the wrong side of a deal that has been done many times before and many times since. When an agency gets so involved in a football club there will only be one winner in the end. In the case of Wolves both sides are winning, right now, but that could change at the drop of a hat if Mendes isn't placated.

Unfortunately for us our agent(s) are bad. They don't have the talent pool and in our early days were interested in lining their pockets only. Now you get an idea the right kind of people are at the club but there's still that potential for the 'odd' signing that raises a few eyebrows. A horrible symptom of a sport gone bad.

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It’s a very small, incestuous circle so I’m not surprised there are ex-SEM people knocking about. The most thought-provoking fact for me is that Coyle and Mowbray, both left-field appointments to say the least for a Championship team, came from the same stable. 

[tomphil]

Things change but Lambert at the time wasn't seen as such a desperado as the other two his stock was a bit higher. He came and had a look, sought certain assurances that weren't met so moved the goalposts himself by probably being unrealistic.  That in turn gave him the excuse to exert his get out clause.

If he himself was represented by the same lot as has been said then not sure i'd have been that keen to see him handed 20 million to spend. Same old parasites in the background pushing their clients first to get another slice of the action.

Why you'd go anywhere near anyone who was directly connected to Andersons lot i don't know. Why you'd even answer the phone to them after Owen Coyle is beyond conspiracy.

[Ewood Ace]

  On 14/02/2020 at 16:56, tomphil said:

Things change but Lambert at the time wasn't seen as such a desperado as the other two his stock was a bit higher. He came and had a look, sought certain assurances that weren't met so moved the goalposts himself by probably being unrealistic.  That in turn gave him the excuse to exert his get out clause.

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Lambert is the only manager the owners have appointed who had a CV worthy of the job. Under decent owners none of the others would have even warranted an interview.

[tomphil]

  On 14/02/2020 at 17:38, Ewood Ace said:

Lambert is the only manager the owners have appointed who had a CV worthy of the job. Under decent owners none of the others would have even warranted an interview.

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But they quickly went back on the things they'd promised to get him here by the sounds of it.

[Ewood Ace]

  On 14/02/2020 at 17:44, tomphil said:

But they quickly went back on the things they'd promised to get him here by the sounds of it.

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I think ever since he got sacked by Villa he has had a massive chip on his shoulder. I was very excited when we appointed him but within a couple months that soon changed as he seemed more interested in moaning about his time at Villa than he was about Rovers.

[tomphil]

  On 14/02/2020 at 18:04, Ewood Ace said:

I think ever since he got sacked by Villa he has had a massive chip on his shoulder. I was very excited when we appointed him but within a couple months that soon changed as he seemed more interested in moaning about his time at Villa than he was about Rovers.

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I had high hopes i thought we had a proper manager at last but it wasn't to be. Not sure how it would have panned out if he'd stayed although i don't think for a min we'd have gone down.  Given a few quid he might have made some decent signings but the football would never have been pretty i don't think.

Who cares though if it's effective.

On the Villa moaning he still does it apparently.

[Paul Mani]

I don’t understand why there are people who cannot understand why fans may want to hang onto Mowbray in fear of the alternatives....anyone who has followed our club for the last decade should see how terrible the club has been at appointing good managers. Even Mowbray, who has been a relative success, should not have got the job when he did. It’s pure luck that that one worked out.

Which brings me back to the point that most fans make which is that they don’t believe for one second that TM is doing a bad job. Of course there’s some of us who think we may need a better manager med/long term in order to achieve our goals but the utter dread of what could turn up at the club after him is REAL!

Im as far from risk averse as anyone out there but my god, I’ll take Mowbray for as long as it takes to say 100% he cannot take us any further. Because history tells me that the next manager of Venkys reign is likely to be more Coyle or Kean than, errrrm well Tony Mowbray.

[Ewood Ace]

  On 15/02/2020 at 09:28, Paul Mani said:

I don’t understand why there are people who cannot understand why fans may want to hang onto Mowbray in fear of the alternatives....anyone who has followed our club for the last decade should see how terrible the club has been at appointing good managers. Even Mowbray, who has been a relative success, should not have got the job when he did. It’s pure luck that that one worked out.

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Would you give him a contract for life?

[Stuart]

  On 14/02/2020 at 14:45, Dreams of 1995 said:

All of the above is modern football in a nutshell. For such a global sport it is a very close circle, each infesting different parts. The truth is what happened to us was sin, we got on the wrong side of a deal that has been done many times before and many times since. When an agency gets so involved in a football club there will only be one winner in the end. In the case of Wolves both sides are winning, right now, but that could change at the drop of a hat if Mendes isn't placated.

Unfortunately for us our agent(s) are bad. They don't have the talent pool and in our early days were interested in lining their pockets only. Now you get an idea the right kind of people are at the club but there's still that potential for the 'odd' signing that raises a few eyebrows. A horrible symptom of a sport gone bad.

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Football agents are a curse. A better PFA wouldn’t have seen the need for these parasites to get involved in the first place. They are not protecting their clients interests, they protect their own. What we have now is de facto third party ownership that cannot be controlled let alone eliminated.

The Walker Trust / Rothschild picked the worst of the worst and our our ‘natural position’, midtable top flight team, was gone, while millions and millions of pounds went out of the club and out of football.

[MarkBRFC]

  On 15/02/2020 at 09:28, Paul Mani said:

I don’t understand why there are people who cannot understand why fans may want to hang onto Mowbray in fear of the alternatives....anyone who has followed our club for the last decade should see how terrible the club has been at appointing good managers. Even Mowbray, who has been a relative success, should not have got the job when he did. It’s pure luck that that one worked out.

Which brings me back to the point that most fans make which is that they don’t believe for one second that TM is doing a bad job. Of course there’s some of us who think we may need a better manager med/long term in order to achieve our goals but the utter dread of what could turn up at the club after him is REAL!

Im as far from risk averse as anyone out there but my god, I’ll take Mowbray for as long as it takes to say 100% he cannot take us any further. Because history tells me that the next manager of Venkys reign is likely to be more Coyle or Kean than, errrrm well Tony Mowbray.

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I certainly understand the point given our owners track record, but it doesn't mean we should cling on to him until he doesn't fancy it anymore.

I think he's done ok, and achieved what I would probably expect results wise so far during his time here despite some horrendous runs and baffling team selections, It sounds harsh considering what went on before him, but I do think he should have kept us up in his first few months though.

But I honestly think, If Tony Mowbray is the glass ceiling for this club then it's probably time to pack it in.

[Paul Mani]

  On 15/02/2020 at 09:39, Ewood Ace said:

Would you give him a contract for life?

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No, I pretty much just said that:

a) I’d give him until the very point where I could no longer see him taking us on.

 b) that I believe med/long term that we may need fresh blood to get us to our goals.

My point was in relation to those who, in spite of the manager doing a a decent enough job, want him simply removed and then cannot understand why some are worried at what we might get next? 

 

[Paul Mani]

  On 15/02/2020 at 09:58, MarkBRFC said:

I certainly understand the point given our owners track record, but it doesn't mean we should cling on to him until he doesn't fancy it anymore.

I think he's done ok, and achieved what I would probably expect results wise so far during his time here despite some horrendous runs and baffling team selections, It sounds harsh considering what went on before him, but I do think he should have kept us up in his first few months though.

But I honestly think, If Tony Mowbray is the glass ceiling for this club then it's probably time to pack it in.

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I wouldn’t disagree with much of that, though I do think you may have omitted the job he’s done of turning a pretty poisonous club into one which is now at least pointing in the right direction? Maybe some credit for the introduction of youth? I also think the criticism of him taking us down is harsh considering he took over from Coyle and a total mess and went at top 6 form to go down on the highest Points total in history.

Im not saying that we shouldn’t eventually replace him when he stops progressing. But if we do, indeed finish in or just outside the top 6 especially with the injuries we’ve endured then surely even the die hard ‘Mowbray out’ brigade can accept that there has been progress?

What I’m saying is that as a fan, whilst we are making some forward progress then I’m happy to stick rather than twist and risk Sol Campbell turning up next! 

[47er]

  On 15/02/2020 at 10:28, Paul Mani said:

Im not saying that we shouldn’t eventually replace him when he stops progressing.

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Dear me, don't go revolutionary on us will you? At what point in his glacial progression will you give up on him?

Never I suspect----his kids will complete their university education and he'll call it a day I reckon.

Then we'll still have to fret over Venkys getting it wrong again anyway!

 

[jim mk2]

  On 15/02/2020 at 10:28, Paul Mani said:

I

Im not saying that we shouldn’t eventually replace him when he stops progressing. But if we do, indeed finish in or just outside the top 6 especially with the injuries we’ve endured then surely even the die hard ‘Mowbray out’ brigade can accept that there has been progress?

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 No, because I don;t see any "progress" this season and it won't be any different next season, or the season after.  I'm comforted by the fact Tony's pension fund is running into the millions now - he'll walk away soon enough. 

 

[Paul Mani]

  On 15/02/2020 at 10:41, 47er said:

Dear me, don't go revolutionary on us will you? At what point in his glacial progression will you give up on him?

Never I suspect----his kids will complete their university education and he'll call it a day I reckon.

Then we'll still have to fret over Venkys getting it wrong again anyway!

 

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I’ll probably (like most sensible people) ‘give up’ on Mowbray when he stops finishing a bit higher in the league? Makes sense right? Considering it’s a ‘results’ business. ?

I think you’re REALLY struggling to tell anyone that there’s been no progression since he took over from Coyle. Sure everyone has opinions for and against but the stats pretty much do the job.

Im also very sure that the vast majority of people (fans and neutrals) would say we had progressed during that time too.

Im not saying you cannot have your personal opinion. That’s up to you. I was just addressing this recurring narrative where people (such as yourself) are absolutely aghast that other fans wouldn’t want to replace him immediately. 

[Paul Mani]

  On 15/02/2020 at 10:56, jim mk2 said:

 No, because I don;t see any "progress" this season and it won't be any different next season, or the season after.  I'm comforted by the fact Tony's pension fund is running into the millions now - he'll walk away soon enough. 

 

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And that’s absolutely fine mate. You don’t see it, many do.

Think I saw a stat saying we currently have the most points we’ve ever had at this point of a championship season? So, erm yeah ok ??

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

  On 14/02/2020 at 17:38, Ewood Ace said:

Lambert is the only manager the owners have appointed who had a CV worthy of the job. Under decent owners none of the others would have even warranted an interview.

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Don't forget he brought Andy Irvine and Rob Kelly in also. I thought that appointment was the only logical thing the Chicken Chokers have done in 10 years.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[jim mk2]

  On 15/02/2020 at 11:00, Paul Mani said:

And that’s absolutely fine mate. You don’t see it, many do.

Think I saw a stat saying we currently have the most points we’ve ever had at this point of a championship season? So, erm yeah ok ??

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 It's where we end up in May - that will be the time to judge.

 

[Paul Mani]

  On 15/02/2020 at 11:05, jim mk2 said:

 It's where we end up in May - that will be the time to judge.

 

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Absolutely. But my answer was in relation to you saying you hadn’t seen any progress this season. Hence the relevance of the stat.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Paul Mani

[Mattyblue]

We were flying this time last season (similar points to now) until we went to Brentford... it fell apart from there.

So judging ‘progression’ on how many points we have in February’s is a bit daft.

[K-Hod]

  On 15/02/2020 at 10:19, Paul Mani said:

No, I pretty much just said that:

a) I’d give him until the very point where I could no longer see him taking us on.

 b) that I believe med/long term that we may need fresh blood to get us to our goals.

My point was in relation to those who, in spite of the manager doing a a decent enough job, want him simply removed and then cannot understand why some are worried at what we might get next? 

 

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I get why people are worried about that, but it just seems a bit defeatist and lacking in ambition....

[Paul Mani]

  On 15/02/2020 at 11:15, Mattyblue said:

We were flying this time last season (similar points to now) until we went to Brentford... it fell apart from there.

So judging ‘progression’ on how many points we have in February’s is a bit daft.

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I’m not ‘judging’ anything. I’m adding context to the argument about whether or not we are progressing. But I could make a similar ‘daft’ assertion on those saying there has been no progress if were saying it cannot be judged until May.

The Final judgement will be made in May no doubt when results and all factors are taken into account.

[jim mk2]

  On 15/02/2020 at 11:12, Paul Mani said:

Absolutely. But my answer was in relation to you saying you hadn’t seen any progress this season. Hence the relevance of the stat.

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Where we are this morning is just a snapshot of our league position. It goes up and down.  If he gets us into the playoffs I'll admit we are making progress