Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Inglorious basturk]

23 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Urghhhh English lit a level flashbacks . Never did well with poetry 

[DE.]

To be fair to Tony it's been some turnaround in the past couple of months. On October 22 when a BRFCS poll was put up for him to stay or go it was 203/21 (90%/10%) in favour of him leaving. I imagine if we redid the poll now it would be drastically different. 

Not saying anybody was wrong to want TM out at the time (I was one of them!) but it's quite remarkable to see the turnaround since then. Not that he's achieved anything yet and we could still end up finishing in mid-table obscurity, but I don't think many of us would have believed at that time we would be in genuine playoff contention by the end of February. Have to admit I'm not sure exactly how he's done it, but Mowbray has come back from an abyss that many managers never escape from in terms of fan perception and team performance. I think a lot of it comes down to the players genuinely liking him and wanting to play for him, despite some of the odd decisions he makes. 

Edited February 20, 2020 by DE.

[roversfan99]

Found this opinion piece on Mowbrays signings an interesting read:

http://roverschat.com/ranking-tony-mowbrays-signings-15-to-1/

http://roverschat.com/ranking-tony-mowbrays-signings-29-to-16/

You look at the first list, and I think even within that top half, the likes of Holtby, Rothwell, Cunningham, (due to injury) Samuel, Antonsson, Bell and Gallagher range from the jury still being out and difficult to judge them as an out and out success as of yet, to potentially even failure. His transfer record is very flaky, albeit the top 2 are big assets.

I think during his time in charge, his main work aside from man management has been relying on the likes of Lenihan, Nyambe and Travis, all of whom he has developed, especially Travis.

[Blue blood]

17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Found this opinion piece on Mowbrays signings an interesting read:

http://roverschat.com/ranking-tony-mowbrays-signings-15-to-1/

http://roverschat.com/ranking-tony-mowbrays-signings-29-to-16/

You look at the first list, and I think even within that top half, the likes of Holtby, Rothwell, Cunningham, (due to injury) Samuel, Antonsson, Bell and Gallagher range from the jury still being out and difficult to judge them as an out and out success as of yet, to potentially even failure. His transfer record is very flaky, albeit the top 2 are big assets.

I think during his time in charge, his main work aside from man management has been relying on the likes of Lenihan, Nyambe and Travis, all of whom he has developed, especially Travis.

Yes my thoughts too. Not sure many could be classed as successes at this moment in time. A lot of even the top list seem decent rather than good. 

The positive is that a number of them still have time to change this perception. Gally, Bell, Samuel for example all have the potential to come good. Whether they will is a different matter but if it is disappointing there aren't more obvious successes (and listed like this it shows TM isn't that strong in the transfer market) the positive is that a number can do an Armstrong and change that perception. Here's hoping that happens as it isn't great reading currently. 

[Stuart]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

To be fair to Tony it's been some turnaround in the past couple of months. On October 22 when a BRFCS poll was put up for him to stay or go it was 203/21 (90%/10%) in favour of him leaving. I imagine if we redid the poll now it would be drastically different. 

Not saying anybody was wrong to want TM out at the time (I was one of them!) but it's quite remarkable to see the turnaround since then. Not that he's achieved anything yet and we could still end up finishing in mid-table obscurity, but I don't think many of us would have believed at that time we would be in genuine playoff contention by the end of February. Have to admit I'm not sure exactly how he's done it, but Mowbray has come back from an abyss that many managers never escape from in terms of fan perception and team performance. I think a lot of it comes down to the players genuinely liking him and wanting to play for him, despite some of the odd decisions he makes. 

Exactly the same way that Venkys emerged unscathed from months of protests. Ride out the storm because they hold all the cards.

At other clubs, and in years gone by at Rovers, the board acts when fans turn.

That said, Mowbray gets the absolute minimum of grief in the ground. “Tony sort it out” is the absolute worst that has been said in three years. Kean and Coyle have seriously impacted the expectations (and demands) of fans.

And there’s nothing wrong with that per se, it’s a view. But it’s part of the reason why we have minimal crowds and next to no atmosphere. That combined with prohibitive walk on prices.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Stuart said:

Exactly the same way that Venkys emerged unscathed from months of protests. Ride out the storm because they hold all the cards.

At other clubs, and in years gone by at Rovers, the board acts when fans turn.

That said, Mowbray gets the absolute minimum of grief in the ground. “Tony sort it out” is the absolute worst that has been said in three years. Kean and Coyle have seriously impacted the expectations (and demands) of fans.

And there’s nothing wrong with that per se, it’s a view. But it’s part of the reason why we have minimal crowds and next to no atmosphere. That combined with prohibitive walk on prices.

Do we have minimal crowds ?

Your admission that the supporters continue to support the manager is interesting; I can see no reason why that would have a negative effect on the atmosphere. Logic would suggest it helps.

[LDRover]

On the subject of Marcus Maddison, it's strange that his ex-manager McCann wanted him seeing as he's apparently such a bad apple. 

[JHRover]

 

I think the majority, myself included, were very frustrated with what we were seeing which seemed to be a never ending cycle of repeating similar mistakes stretching back over more than 12 months and very little suggestion that things were going to change for the better. 

Preston away was the nadir and I make no secret that after that particular horror show I would have waved Mowbray off with thanks and replaced him. That didn't happen, it probably was never even a possibility, but it was clear around that time including after the Barnsley win that things weren't quite right, the fans were unhappy and Mowbray wasn't comfortable. 

Very easy to sit here now 5 months on after things have picked up. That's the beauty of hindsight. Of course Mowbray, his confidants and some fans will do the 'i told you so' routine but that can carry on forever in football if you give it long enough. I don't subscribe to the theory that Venkys are backing some long term project. I just think they don't care or pay attention and are happy to leave Mowbray to it because they like him. They did the same with Kean and it ruined us, so thankfully this time we've got someone likeable, trustworthy who is also a decent manager and has been able to turn it around. Some people always want to try and take the highground when there's never any guarantee any particular course of action or in our case no action is going to result in an improvement. 

I also think this good run of form has really crept up on us and rivals - we haven't really appeared as a side taking things by storm yet we've quietly gone about becoming hard to beat. We've also managed to dispatch teams e.g. Bristol City and Charlton away in clinical fashion. We've managed to get our home form back towards what it was last season where we don't ever seem to play particularly well but don't lose games, whilst away from home we've started picking up some good wins, built upon a solid defence.

Long may it continue. First few months of the season i was quite despondent about things and wasn't really enjoying games or how we were playing and wasn't seeing much sign of any progress. Since Xmas I am seeing positive signs and indicators of progress. Lets see what unfolds over the rest of the season.

Problem I have is lets suppose we get to 7th or 8th come end of the season. From there we need to invest, be decisive and move quickly to plug gaps and get ready to hit the ground running next year. I don't think that is ever going to be an option under this regime which is why we usually start off slowly and by the end of the season aren't in the mix because we've been playing catch up for so long. 

Edited February 20, 2020 by JHRover

[Bohinen 22]

On 19 February 2020 at 15:26, Inglorious basturk said:

Yes speedie for sure . Talent often comes with baggage . Look at the music world . 
Bellamy did target mgp. This was confirmed at source at the mgp night 

Bellamy was a brilliant player for Rovers. After Shearer, Friedel and Tugay, the fourth best Rovers player I've seen. But he was unpopular with some in the dressing room. Nelsen hated him. Prob cos of how he was with Pedersen and others.

[Oldgregg86]

29 minutes ago, JHRover said:

 

I think the majority, myself included, were very frustrated with what we were seeing which seemed to be a never ending cycle of repeating similar mistakes stretching back over more than 12 months and very little suggestion that things were going to change for the better. 

Preston away was the nadir and I make no secret that after that particular horror show I would have waved Mowbray off with thanks and replaced him. That didn't happen, it probably was never even a possibility, but it was clear around that time including after the Barnsley win that things weren't quite right, the fans were unhappy and Mowbray wasn't comfortable. 

Very easy to sit here now 5 months on after things have picked up. That's the beauty of hindsight. Of course Mowbray, his confidants and some fans will do the 'i told you so' routine but that can carry on forever in football if you give it long enough. I don't subscribe to the theory that Venkys are backing some long term project. I just think they don't care or pay attention and are happy to leave Mowbray to it because they like him. They did the same with Kean and it ruined us, so thankfully this time we've got someone likeable, trustworthy who is also a decent manager and has been able to turn it around. Some people always want to try and take the highground when there's never any guarantee any particular course of action or in our case no action is going to result in an improvement. 

I also think this good run of form has really crept up on us and rivals - we haven't really appeared as a side taking things by storm yet we've quietly gone about becoming hard to beat. We've also managed to dispatch teams e.g. Bristol City and Charlton away in clinical fashion. We've managed to get our home form back towards what it was last season where we don't ever seem to play particularly well but don't lose games, whilst away from home we've started picking up some good wins, built upon a solid defence.

Long may it continue. First few months of the season i was quite despondent about things and wasn't really enjoying games or how we were playing and wasn't seeing much sign of any progress. Since Xmas I am seeing positive signs and indicators of progress. Lets see what unfolds over the rest of the season.

Problem I have is lets suppose we get to 7th or 8th come end of the season. From there we need to invest, be decisive and move quickly to plug gaps and get ready to hit the ground running next year. I don't think that is ever going to be an option under this regime which is why we usually start off slowly and by the end of the season aren't in the mix because we've been playing catch up for so long. 

A very good and fair post that’s sums up pretty much how I feel

[SoldierMo]

1 hour ago, Bohinen 22 said:

Bellamy was a brilliant player for Rovers. After Shearer, Friedel and Tugay, the fourth best Rovers player I've seen. But he was unpopular with some in the dressing room. Nelsen hated him. Prob cos of how he was with Pedersen and others.

No way duff and jansen a million times better

[SoldierMo]

Also what was the full story between pedersen and bellamy??

[JacknOry]

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Found this opinion piece on Mowbrays signings an interesting read:

http://roverschat.com/ranking-tony-mowbrays-signings-15-to-1/

http://roverschat.com/ranking-tony-mowbrays-signings-29-to-16/

You look at the first list, and I think even within that top half, the likes of Holtby, Rothwell, Cunningham, (due to injury) Samuel, Antonsson, Bell and Gallagher range from the jury still being out and difficult to judge them as an out and out success as of yet, to potentially even failure. His transfer record is very flaky, albeit the top 2 are big assets.

I think during his time in charge, his main work aside from man management has been relying on the likes of Lenihan, Nyambe and Travis, all of whom he has developed, especially Travis.

When Bell is the 14th best signing out of 29 - it shows that we have signed some tosh. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by JacknOry

[Mattyblue]

Good write up of the 3 year anniversary in the LT.

But of course, can’t be the Telegraph without a glaring error - apparently TM is the first manager since Souness to clock up 3 years... apart from the near 4 years of Mark Hughes, of course!

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18250919.mowbray-saw-rovers-a-project-approaches-milestone/

Edited February 21, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Inglorious basturk]

12 hours ago, LDRover said:

On the subject of Marcus Maddison, it's strange that his ex-manager McCann wanted him seeing as he's apparently such a bad apple. 

@chaddyrovers this is worth consideration surely ?

[JHRover]

35 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Good write up of the 3 year anniversary in the LT.

But of course, can’t be the Telegraph without a glaring error - apparently TM is the first manager since Souness to clock up 3 years... apart from the near 4 years of Mark Hughes, of course!

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18250919.mowbray-saw-rovers-a-project-approaches-milestone/

He's also 56, not 57 until late this year. Nearly right though.

[47er]

49 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

@chaddyrovers this is worth consideration surely ?

Don't waste your time!

[chaddyrovers]

15 hours ago, JHRover said:

Preston away was the nadir and I make no secret that after that particular horror show I would have waved Mowbray off with thanks and replaced him. That didn't happen, it probably was never even a possibility, but it was clear around that time including after the Barnsley win that things weren't quite right, the fans were unhappy and Mowbray wasn't comfortable. 

Preston was awful performance after being 2 nil up and playing well and to a plan. So to crumble like we did was extremely disappointed. 

I said after the Barnsley home game that I honestly thought Mowbray would have walk away after the game if we didn't win. But that game has been catalyst for us climbing the league table and being where we are now. Did Mowbray and the players have a team meeting after that game and clear the air talks.(Just a suggestion btw)

 

15 hours ago, JHRover said:

I don't subscribe to the theory that Venkys are backing some long term project. I just think they don't care or pay attention and are happy to leave Mowbray to it because they like him. They did the same with Kean and it ruined us, so thankfully this time we've got someone likeable, trustworthy who is also a decent manager and has been able to turn it around.

I think they are paying plenty of attention to the club and what is happening, games, social media and what fans think. They aren't stupid people and they have number of high profile mistakes and decisions that cost us.  Venkys clearly like Mowbray as manager. They find him trustworthy and honest to them. Something that appeal to them. 

15 hours ago, JHRover said:

Problem I have is lets suppose we get to 7th or 8th come end of the season. From there we need to invest, be decisive and move quickly to plug gaps and get ready to hit the ground running next year. I don't think that is ever going to be an option under this regime which is why we usually start off slowly and by the end of the season aren't in the mix because we've been playing catch up for so long. 

This is where you hope Mowbray and his recruitment have targets ready to move right now. Talking to their club and Players agents. I expected majority of signings will be foreign 

Edited February 21, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[Mattyblue]

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think they are paying plenty of attention to the club and what is happening, games, social media and what fans think. They aren't stupid Football and they have number of high profile mistakes and decisions that cost us.  Venkys clearly like Mowbray as manager. They find him trustworthy and honest to them. Something that appeal to them

You know all this how?

[47er]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

You know all this how?

I'm glad you understood it! 

[JHRover]

31 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Preston was awful performance after being 2 nil up and playing well and to a plan. So to crumble like we did was extremely disappointed. 

I said after the Barnsley home game that I honestly thought Mowbray would have walk away after the game if we didn't win. But that game has been catalyst for us climbing the league table and being where we are now. Did Mowbray and the players have a team meeting after that game and clear the air talks.(Just a suggestion btw)

 

I think they are paying plenty of attention to the club and what is happening, games, social media and what fans think. They aren't stupid Football and they have number of high profile mistakes and decisions that cost us.  Venkys clearly like Mowbray as manager. They find him trustworthy and honest to them. Something that appeal to them. 

This is where you hope Mowbray and his recruitment have targets ready to move right now. Talking to their club and Players agents. I expected majority of signings will be foreign 

I don't doubt that Mowbray and his team will have targets in mind and would ideally like to move for them early. Unfortunately the backward structure of him having to wait until May to fly to India to review and agree things before he goes on his family holiday results in a month of delays after the season has finished. Can't do it.

[Inglorious basturk]

While I try to resist my curiosity of the protected   Species hypocritiotocus chadomus really my overall feelings with Mowbray are of hope but I just can’t help think that when we have our good spells it’s luck rather than judgement , often it seems his hand is forced . I would be utterly delighted to be proven wrong 

[Admiral Nelsen]

8 hours ago, SoldierMo said:

No way duff and jansen a million times better

Duff yes, but as much as I love Matty I'd rate Bellamy higher.

For the season he was with us I'd even put him slightly higher than Benni and Santa Cruz 

[Admiral Nelsen]

2 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

While I try to resist my curiosity of the protected   Species hypocritiotocus chadomus really my overall feelings with Mowbray are of hope but I just can’t help think that when we have our good spells it’s luck rather than judgement , often it seems his hand is forced . I would be utterly delighted to be proven wrong 

You may be right, but all I'd say to that is that lucky men don't tend to stay lucky forever. After a while the law of averages kicks in, and then it's only right to judge a manager on his record in those circumstances.

[bboy]

To dissect my opinions on Tony a liitle. 

Tony the man manager- his strongest skill, he clearly has the backing of his players throughout his time here. Best we've had since Big Sam. Only issues I have is too many pointless contracts last season & strange treatment of Danny Graham this season. 

Tony the tactision- umm hit and miss, he gets some games perfectly. He clearly wanted to change the way we play this season. However to many times early this season we where round peg in a square hole. Bennett RB was Terrible, the wide striker situation wasn't/ still isn't a solution. I have no doubt that since more players are playing in their natural position our results improved is no coincidence. 

Tony the player developer-- often this feels like it happens when he's forced to eg. Travis. He's also too loyal to his league one crew for too long. However if his hand was forced or not he's brought a lot of academy players into the first team and some have thrived. 

Tony the recruiter--mixed bag, take out Dack and it's fairly poor record. The problem is he is too old school in the transfer market too patient and refuses to let a new player instantly come into the team. He tells them that too and I feel like we've missed out on good players because of it. Too many times it feels potentially good signing seemed to have slipped away. 

 

Tony the Man- it's hard not to like the Football loving Northern bloke. I'm grateful for the 3 years. He's not the perfect manager but his time so far goes down as a success and it's a long time since we've had a manager who I'd say did that. Here's to Tony taking tovers back to where we belong!