Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Sparks Rover]

21 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Please god!! ? For the record I’m not saying that Mowbray alone has progressed those players. The point here is that to say he has no involvement is ridiculous. His involvement as the manager of the club is naturally high. Also, if you are going to hold the manager ultimately at fault for all team failings then it seems only right to make him responsible for the successes.

As a side note, the point you make about Jonty is bang on. He was brought into the first team by Mowbray to be the bridge between the 23’s and the first team and to introduce the analysis. But make no bones about it Mowbray made that decision and he is responsible for the success or failure of that decision. Ergo, if Jonty is developing the likes of Nyambe etc then it is partly / largely to do with the manager who had the foresight to create that role and employ him. Furthermore, once Mowbrays coaching team have developed the player then the manager has to play them. Which he is. 
 

Mowbray is responsible for holding Nyambe back in his development.  Like Bennet was ever better than him at right back....he should  have racked up close to 200 appearances now  instead he's not done 100.....shocking management 

[tomphil]

48 minutes ago, J*B said:

I’m utterly astounded that Damien Johnson’s nickname is Jonty and not Jonno. 

Blame Souness for that one i think it harks back to then....?

Edited March 1, 2020 by tomphil

[47er]

5 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

What is funny is this emerging rhetoric that TM hasn’t had anything to do with the influx of successful young players into the first team. 

 

You're doing the Straw Man thing again! I don't recall anyone posting that! 

Are you saying all the credit should  be  Tony Mowbray's? 

Many of us would have given them a go earlier, that's true. Were we wrong?

 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

That emphasises my point that praising Mowbray alone for any upturns in players form and development isn't true. It seems that several players hold Johnson in high esteem and give him credit for their improvements.

I did say Mowbray and his staff in all fairness. Which I do included the entire backroom staff in my comment. 

[Paul Mani]

38 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Mowbray is responsible for holding Nyambe back in his development.  Like Bennet was ever better than him at right back....he should  have racked up close to 200 appearances now  instead he's not done 100.....shocking management 

Sound ??

[Paul Mani]

12 minutes ago, 47er said:

You're doing the Straw Man thing again! I don't recall anyone posting that! 

Are you saying all the credit should  be  Tony Mowbray's? 

Many of us would have given them a go earlier, that's true. Were we wrong?

 

Ffs. Read my post/s. It’s not difficult. I’ve made my position clear on Mowbrays involvement across at least four posts this morning.

I don’t know if it would have been wrong to play all the young lads earlier, I don’t watch them everyday in training. But what I do know is that Travis and in particular Nyambe were 100% not ready. I saw with Nyambe last season that this were the case. But I’ve been told that Trav has had to basically ‘re-learn’ the game since taking Smallwoods spot. So in relation to those two, I do not believe they would’ve benefited from going in earlier, No.

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

Please god!! ? For the record I’m not saying that Mowbray alone has progressed those players. The point here is that to say he has no involvement is ridiculous. His involvement as the manager of the club is naturally high. Also, if you are going to hold the manager ultimately at fault for all team failings then it seems only right to make him responsible for the successes.

As a side note, the point you make about Jonty is bang on. He was brought into the first team by Mowbray to be the bridge between the 23’s and the first team and to introduce the analysis. But make no bones about it Mowbray made that decision and he is responsible for the success or failure of that decision. Ergo, if Jonty is developing the likes of Nyambe etc then it is partly / largely to do with the manager who had the foresight to create that role and employ him. Furthermore, once Mowbrays coaching team have developed the player then the manager has to play them. Which he is. 
 

I never even mentioned anything like that. My point was to give credit to the staff for player development as several of them have themselves. Of course Mowbray plays a part in the process.

The drama of the first two words do you no favours either.

[Paul Mani]

3 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I never even mentioned anything like that. My point was to give credit to the staff for player development as several of them have themselves. Of course Mowbray plays a part in the process.

The drama of the first two words do you no favours either.

It’s difficult having to say the same thing over and over again.

[LDRover]

If Mowbray thought Harrison Reed had to learn the CM position from Smallwood and Evans I'd be concerned for Travis's future development.

[Pedro]

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I get your point about the loan. There’s no doubt that Trav changed his mind with performances but that doesn’t mean Mowbray didn’t rate him. Far from it.

Trav was a RB by trade. Has spent the last 15 months (since  ending Smallwoods Rovers career) working tirelessly with the coaching staff to understand that position (CM) and learning to deal with threats and decision  all around him and not just what’s on the left of him (as a rb does). His development has been incredible. I reckon if you watched a video of him when he broke through to now you’d be blown away. He always had great athletic prowess and mental drive but his awareness, range of passing, ability to sniff out danger and manoeuvre out of tight spaces with the ball have improved immeasurably. Add to that game management and the fact that he wins man of the match most games and I think there will be some big interest in him in the summer.  

I really like him and rate him.  Although I think the passing side of his game is quite weak but improving. On a bad day, both him and Johnson are really wasteful with the ball - he has the genuine excuse of him learning his trade.  Can't fault Travis effort though- that's a chunk of the reason why he'll go on to better things.

[arbitro]

8 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

It’s difficult having to say the same thing over and over again.

I can accept that as frustrating but it doesn't come across well to other posters.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, arbitro said:

I can accept that as frustrating but it doesn't come across well to other posters.

I apologise mate. ??

[Paul Mani]

13 minutes ago, LDRover said:

If Mowbray thought Harrison Reed had to learn the CM position from Smallwood and Evans I'd be concerned for Travis's future development.

Harrison Reed is a very good player. He can pass, tackle and run. But he cannot hold a place down in ANY team as a Centre Midfielder. That includes Southampton, Norwich, Rovers or Fulham. This in spite of his obvious talent tells its own story. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Paul Mani

[arbitro]

4 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I apologise mate. ??

No need mate. Although I don't always agree with your posts you are consistent with your points and debate them well.

[jim mk2]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Harrison Reed is a very good player. He can pass, tackle and run. But he cannot hold a place down in ANY team in CM. Southampton, Rovers or Fulham. This in spite of his obvious talent tells its own story. 

....... that managers don't know how to get the best out of him ? He can't be a "very good player" and not secure a regular place.

Personally, I'd have loved him at Ewood. Had a few ropey games but more often than not was excellent for us. 

[LDRover]

2 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Harrison Reed is a very good player. He can pass, tackle and run. But he cannot hold a place down in ANY team as a Centre Midfielder. That includes Southampton, Norwich, Rovers or Fulham. This in spite of his obvious talent tells its own story. 

He's missed 19 games through injury this season and played 17 - I'd suggest he'd be 'holding down' a place if it wasn't for that.

We always played better with him in the team, the fans loved him, yet TM came out with that 'gem' about Evans and Smallwood to somehow try to vindicate his exclusion...

Norwich , he was a regular starter albeit as something of a utility player but again he was loved by the fans during his time there.

[Paul Mani]

10 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

....... that managers don't know how to get the best out of him ? He can't be a "very good player" and not secure a regular place.

Personally, I'd have loved him at Ewood. Had a few ropey games but more often than not was excellent for us. 

No, I think it tells the story that he doesn’t know how to play CM. Played RB, RM and CB for Southampton, RB for Norwich, RM and CM for us and CM and RB for Fulham. He can play...he just hasn’t settled in a position. He hasn’t nailed CM.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Haha - True story! 

Out of interest, do you know Damien Johnson personally? Comes across as a bit david Brent like calling him "Jonty" all the time if not!

[Pedro]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

You're doing the Straw Man thing again! I don't recall anyone posting that! 

Are you saying all the credit should  be  Tony Mowbray's? 

Many of us would have given them a go earlier, that's true. Were we wrong?

 

Not regarding Mani (to me personally) but there are a select few on here who see right past every valid point that supporters like us have shared.

Drop Bennett

Play Nyambe

Keep a settled starting 11

Push higher up the pitch with more intensity

Don't let full backs stand off the wingers and invite crosses

Play players in their proper positions

Sign a left back

Don't play strikers on the wing

Be more adventurous and have more intensity at home

 

Certain posters/fans have gone to great lengths with their waffling and arse licking to make us out to be negative, no-nothings and that we should simply 'trust Mowbray' etc.  When we win or go on a decent run, these same posters laud it up and make us out to be wrong or idiots...whilst skirting over the facts that we win when the manager cottons-on to the basics and does a large selection of the above advice.  But still, we know nothing and our opinions are just lunacy ?

They see single digits OUTSIDE of the playoffs as an achievement, share a love for form tables and see right past the only one that matters (even though their messiah now says they mean nothing too)...it'll be interesting to see if those are posted up as we are now three games deep into another winless run - coincidentally when the team gets tinkered with (admittedly, both needlessly and a result of a suspension) I think, the form table may gather dust quite quickly.

These same fans will, in time, look back on this season as the massive missed opportunity it will pan out to be.  Whilst it suits the agenda that we are just a plucky little League One side establishing ourself with the bigger boys , keeping powder dry, not judging the manager after 3 transfer windows, seeing what the manager is 'trying to achive'  and simply 'getting behind the lads ffs' etc. - surely, in hindsight, they will eventually know they were talking bollocks.

 

Anyway, credit to Mowbray for when he switches on his common sense, damn him when he reverts to type and self-destructs.

 

[Paul Mani]

6 minutes ago, LDRover said:

He's missed 19 games through injury this season and played 17 - I'd suggest he'd be 'holding down' a place if it wasn't for that.

We always played better with him in the team, the fans loved him, yet TM came out with that 'gem' about Evans and Smallwood to somehow try to vindicate his exclusion...

Norwich , he was a regular starter albeit as something of a utility player but again he was loved by the fans during his time there.

I agree with most of your points. But the point here was that Mowbray didn’t believe he performed that CM role well enough. In fairness he had his best games  at RM for us, played RB for Norwich and tbf didn’t play every week for Fulham even when he was fit. Onomah, Cairney and Johanson have been preferred.

As I said, he’s a very good footballer. But I don’t think he’s a specialist anywhere.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

I agree with most of your points. But the point here was that Mowbray didn’t believe he performed that CM role well enough. In fairness he had his best games  at RM for us, played RB for Norwich and tbf didn’t play every week for Fulham even when he was fit. Onomah, Cairney and Johanson have been preferred.

As I said, he’s a very good footballer. But I don’t think he’s a specialist anywhere.

He felt that Smallwood was a shining example of how to play the position at that time though. He was very reluctant to break up that partnership of him and Evans but when Reed did play CM, West Brom away, Derby at home, Wigan at home, we was excellent, and he was somewhat stunted out wide.

[Mattyblue]

21 minutes ago, arbitro said:

No need mate. Although I don't always agree with your posts you are consistent with your points and debate them well.

Didnt realise replying to those he disagreed with with - ? ? ??? ? counted as good debating, but there you go.

[Pedro]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Out of interest, do you know Damien Johnson personally? Comes across as a bit david Brent like calling him "Jonty" all the time if not!

I would refer to him as Jonty tbh - I used to go to all the Rovers reserve games at Springfield Park (Wigan), Preston and somewhere else that my aging mind won't let me remember. We called him Jonty then, everybody would (this was back in the days when both him and Damien Duff would either be playing or scoffing pies in the stands!)

[Paul Mani]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Out of interest, do you know Damien Johnson personally? Comes across as a bit david Brent like calling him "Jonty" all the time if not!

Would feel weird calling him anything else. Sorry if that offends you. I’ll remember to call Dunny, Flit, Janny, Shorty, Trav and Bucko by their Sunday name too in future!

[Paul Mani]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

He felt that Smallwood was a shining example of how to play the position at that time though. He was very reluctant to break up that partnership of him and Evans but when Reed did play CM, West Brom away, Derby at home, Wigan at home, we was excellent, and he was somewhat stunted out wide.

Let’s get something straight mate. Richie Smallwood was bloody brilliant for Rovers. Knew his job brilliantly and was extremely effective. His ability is limited and that is the reason he was replaced.

I think you’re confusing ability and understanding a role. Of course Reed was a far better footballer than Smallwood. But that’s not the same metric as whether or not someone understands a position.