Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Mattyblue]

Are we having our best season?

We still had a chance of the top 6 going into the last day under Bowyer in 2014.

Lets see where this lot are in May.

[Bigdoggsteel]

28 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Are we having our best season?

We still had a chance of the top 6 going into the last day under Bowyer in 2014.

Lets see where this lot are in May.

Potentially our best season so. My point remains that some need to enjoy it. 

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Agreed. And I seem to remember Desai spouting that the future was loans, just after the takeaway...

Your memory is correct Lenny but she referred to them as lease players rather than loans. I remember it because it was strange terminology but, given the Rao's naivete around football I felt it was a line fed to them by one of the many pariahs they employed and relied on.

[47er]

2 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Your memory is correct Lenny but she referred to them as lease players rather than loans. I remember it because it was strange terminology but, given the Rao's naivete around football I felt it was a line fed to them by one of the many pariahs they employed and relied on.

I seem to remember she actually talked about "borrowing players from other clubs".

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

Whilst you are right with your first sentence (as was Mowbray) I don't think anybody thought that 60% of our first choice defence would be loans. In anybody's book it's not healthy and smacks of a lack of succession planning.

We are better defensively, without doubt but in the summer we are pretty much starting from scratch again from a defensive point of view. Do you think that's a healthy situation for a club with supposed ambition?

 

Well we know what happened with the keeper situation in the summer. Mowbray discuss this in the summer, around the Brentford home game and at the supporter consultation meeting you attend. 

I would think that Tosin was a target all summer. Unsure on Cunningham as it was the last couple of days of window. 

I don't think it healthy or unhealthy situation in all fairness. Looking towards the summer we are looking at making around 6 to 8 signings this summer. Depends on who is sold if anyone which I think Rovers will try to keep all key players. 

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

We've heard all this before. Rightly or wrongly there will be no appetite to overhaul the defence in the summer, even if by some miracle the owners authorise significant expenditure on it.

Mowbray attaches a lot of weight to trust and doing his homework on players. He won't want to risk upsetting the apple cart by bringing in 2 keepers and 3-4 defenders.

I expect one of the first pieces of business will be a new contract for Bell and possibly also Leutwiler.

why no appetite? we need around 3 or 4 defenders. 2 centre backs, 1 first choice left back and possible right back depending on Nyambe future and Bennett role within the squad. Then 2 keepers and 1 right winger. Possible target man type if Graham does go. Rovers have a club option to extend Bell contract for 12 months. I would give him this extension after his improvement in performance. 

Mowbray will be doing his homework on potential signings now so in the summer we are ready to go you would have to think so. Plus with our new European scouting network up and running I would expect majority of our signings to come from Europe. 

 

 

[MarkBRFC]

Imagine if we somehow get to the play off final.

The final falls on May 25th, so at some point after that, Mowbray will have to go to India for a week to discuss budgets, following that he usually has a 2 week family holiday, and then the Euro's will be starting which will also be used as an excuse for "slow business".

Don't expect any signings until the players are deep into pre season training, and even then they no doubt will have to learn our complicated way of playing.

 

[arbitro]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well we know what happened with the keeper situation in the summer. Mowbray discuss this in the summer, around the Brentford home game and at the supporter consultation meeting you attend. 

I would think that Tosin was a target all summer. Unsure on Cunningham as it was the last couple of days of window. 

I don't think it healthy or unhealthy situation in all fairness. Looking towards the summer we are looking at making around 6 to 8 signings this summer. Depends on who is sold if anyone which I think Rovers will try to keep all key players. 

why no appetite? we need around 3 or 4 defenders. 2 centre backs, 1 first choice left back and possible right back depending on Nyambe future and Bennett role within the squad. Then 2 keepers and 1 right winger. Possible target man type if Graham does go. Rovers have a club option to extend Bell contract for 12 months. I would give him this extension after his improvement in performance. 

Mowbray will be doing his homework on potential signings now so in the summer we are ready to go you would have to think so. Plus with our new European scouting network up and running I would expect majority of our signings to come from Europe. 

 

 

We will be looking to revamp our squad with up to eight players during what will be Mowbrays seventh transfer window. Where is the succession planning?

[Bigdoggsteel]

19 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Imagine if we somehow get to the play off final.

The final falls on May 25th, so at some point after that, Mowbray will have to go to India for a week to discuss budgets, following that he usually has a 2 week family holiday, and then the Euro's will be starting which will also be used as an excuse for "slow business".

Don't expect any signings until the players are deep into pre season training, and even then they no doubt will have to learn our complicated way of playing.

 

I would really, really hope that targets have been identified and moves will happen earlier this summer. For once. 

[J*B]

9 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I would really, really hope that targets have been identified and moves will happen earlier this summer. For once. 

I’ll give you 12/1. 

[Mattyblue]

I’m sure TM does have plans and players he wants, after all he’s worked in plenty of normal clubs.

However, the fact that here nothing ever moves until after that yearly meeting means we will always be playing catch up.

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 minutes ago, J*B said:

I’ll give you 12/1. 

No... ?

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well we know what happened with the keeper situation in the summer. Mowbray discuss this in the summer, around the Brentford home game and at the supporter consultation meeting you attend. 

I would think that Tosin was a target all summer. Unsure on Cunningham as it was the last couple of days of window. 

I don't think it healthy or unhealthy situation in all fairness. Looking towards the summer we are looking at making around 6 to 8 signings this summer. Depends on who is sold if anyone which I think Rovers will try to keep all key players. 

why no appetite? we need around 3 or 4 defenders. 2 centre backs, 1 first choice left back and possible right back depending on Nyambe future and Bennett role within the squad. Then 2 keepers and 1 right winger. Possible target man type if Graham does go. Rovers have a club option to extend Bell contract for 12 months. I would give him this extension after his improvement in performance. 

Mowbray will be doing his homework on potential signings now so in the summer we are ready to go you would have to think so. Plus with our new European scouting network up and running I would expect majority of our signings to come from Europe. 

 

 

Mowbray has tried to justify what happened with Raya going and nobody coming in. I'm afraid I simply don't accept that selling our 1st choice keeper to a club like Brentford without anyone else lined up to come in is reasonable or appropriate. Mowbray can repeat excuses about the market until blue in the face. It isnt acceptable.

For the manager to be talking about recruiting an entire new defence this summer is ludicrous. No matter how you want to dress it up. It is a consequence of over reliance on loans and cutting corners on those positions and is not healthy. This has been going on since 2012. The owners will not allow funds to be used on those positions. 

Imagine if we got up in late May and then had only a few weeks to assemble a defence ahead of a Premier League season. Madness.

Likewise any hopes of going again with momentum next season to go one better hinge upon us getting early good business done and those players settling in quickly. Won't work on past evidence, when it took all summer to get Tosin in and Cunningham at the 11th hour once we found a taker for Mulgrew.

[Bigdoggsteel]

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Mowbray has tried to justify what happened with Raya going and nobody coming in. I'm afraid I simply don't accept that selling our 1st choice keeper to a club like Brentford without anyone else lined up to come in is reasonable or appropriate. Mowbray can repeat excuses about the market until blue in the face. It isnt acceptable.

For the manager to be talking about recruiting an entire new defence this summer is ludicrous. No matter how you want to dress it up. It is a consequence of over reliance on loans and cutting corners on those positions and is not healthy. This has been going on since 2012. The owners will not allow funds to be used on those positions. 

Imagine if we got up in late May and then had only a few weeks to assemble a defence ahead of a Premier League season. Madness.

Likewise any hopes of going again with momentum next season to go one better hinge upon us getting early good business done and those players settling in quickly. Won't work on past evidence, when it took all summer to get Tosin in and Cunningham at the 11th hour once we found a taker for Mulgrew.

Isn't it just incredible the season we are having with things being so bad? 

[Amo]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Isn't it just incredible the season we are having with things being so bad? 

...or speaks to the lack of quality in a league that's there for the taking?

Edited March 3, 2020 by Amo

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well we know what happened with the keeper situation in the summer. Mowbray discuss this in the summer, around the Brentford home game and at the supporter consultation meeting you attend. 

I would think that Tosin was a target all summer. Unsure on Cunningham as it was the last couple of days of window. 

I don't think it healthy or unhealthy situation in all fairness. Looking towards the summer we are looking at making around 6 to 8 signings this summer. Depends on who is sold if anyone which I think Rovers will try to keep all key players. 

why no appetite? we need around 3 or 4 defenders. 2 centre backs, 1 first choice left back and possible right back depending on Nyambe future and Bennett role within the squad. Then 2 keepers and 1 right winger. Possible target man type if Graham does go. Rovers have a club option to extend Bell contract for 12 months. I would give him this extension after his improvement in performance. 

Mowbray will be doing his homework on potential signings now so in the summer we are ready to go you would have to think so. Plus with our new European scouting network up and running I would expect majority of our signings to come from Europe. 

 

 

I think you are assuming that we are a club run efficiently and coherently and are blissfully ignoring the delays that inevitably come within the owners and their stubborn way of working which as others have pointed out causes delays.

I doubt we will have loads of money but we need 2 wingers as a matter of urgency as we are sorely lacking there.

Why would you want a target man if we are now supposedly playing a passing style? I must have missed any improvement in Bell too, get shot of him.

[G Somerset Rover]

2 hours ago, J*B said:

I’ll give you 12/1. 

That’s very optimistic.

[Mashed Potatoes]

6 hours ago, arbitro said:

Whilst you are right with your first sentence (as was Mowbray) I don't think anybody thought that 60% of our first choice defence would be loans. In anybody's book it's not healthy and smacks of a lack of succession planning.

We are better defensively, without doubt but in the summer we are pretty much starting from scratch again from a defensive point of view. Do you think that's a healthy situation for a club with supposed ambition?

 

If you look at the use of loan players in this division you will see that the likes of West Brom and Leeds actually have a greater reliance on them than we do.

[Mattyblue]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Isn't it just incredible the season we are having with things being so bad? 

We’re 8th in the second division.

[Oldgregg86]

As mark said with the meeting in India , euros, coronovirus or whatever excuse likely deals won’t be done and we will more than likely end up loaning a couple of players again right at the end of the window , followed by the emergence of Hayden carter lighting up the reserves and ready to step up . All this in the hope no one is sold . I’ve naturally turned pessimistic since the venkys rocked up , never used to be , but i just have no faith that we will sign and own a back four and keeper to build for the future . I hope he proves me wrong then I can enjoy the wingers are coming debate for the next twelve months . Also we have options up top, fairly decent, I’d say average for the league where in . Certainly not top six material . With Graham going and we have any hope of top six we also need a proven goalscorer. Can anyone realistically say that Samuel , Gallagher, Brereton and Armstrong  (who will probably be out wide ) are going to fire 30-40 goals to get us up . I dont

[Blue blood]

@chaddyrovers I'm not surprised you see nothing wrong with 3/5 of our best back 5 being loans but I struggle to see how this is the case. 

1) defending is built on continuity - how can that happen when the defence changes each year?

2) how can you build a long term style when you don't know the players you will have each year? How does it help the rest of the team gel given they have such a changeable back line each year. 

3) what if we can't get the players of the right quality in? That's a lot of defensive reinforcements to find. We need 3 successful defensive signings to stay even. That's a lot of pressure to do in the summer, not to mention other parts of the team. 

4) issue with loan signings, especially youngsters - what if they are recalled or take half a season to settle. The latter in particular (see Walton) means we're constantly dipping in quality even if we get the loans right. And if recalled where is the recompense for us? 

Of course there's always a risk and negative to loans but when the majority of the defence is made up of this then those risks and problems become huge. Can't really believe anyone doesn't think this is an unhealthy position to be in. 

@Oldgregg86 I think you are spot on about how transfers will occur. On the upside whilst I am a tad sceptical of Messer's Bereton Gally and Samuel we also will have Dack and Holtby and hopefully Gally will play up front more which can only help his goal ratio. so not all doom and gloom going forwards, especially if we sign a winger. 

[Oldgregg86]

44 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

@chaddyrovers I'm not surprised you see nothing wrong with 3/5 of our best back 5 being loans but I struggle to see how this is the case. 

1) defending is built on continuity - how can that happen when the defence changes each year?

2) how can you build a long term style when you don't know the players you will have each year? How does it help the rest of the team gel given they have such a changeable back line each year. 

3) what if we can't get the players of the right quality in? That's a lot of defensive reinforcements to find. We need 3 successful defensive signings to stay even. That's a lot of pressure to do in the summer, not to mention other parts of the team. 

4) issue with loan signings, especially youngsters - what if they are recalled or take half a season to settle. The latter in particular (see Walton) means we're constantly dipping in quality even if we get the loans right. And if recalled where is the recompense for us? 

Of course there's always a risk and negative to loans but when the majority of the defence is made up of this then those risks and problems become huge. Can't really believe anyone doesn't think this is an unhealthy position to be in. 

@Oldgregg86 I think you are spot on about how transfers will occur. On the upside whilst I am a tad sceptical of Messer's Bereton Gally and Samuel we also will have Dack and Holtby and hopefully Gally will play up front more which can only help his goal ratio. so not all doom and gloom going forwards, especially if we sign a winger. 

Dack won’t be back til Xmas and will need time get back to his usually standards which still means we will be heavily reliant on the four aforementioned. Hopefully Holtby will be able to also contribute when fit

[Blue blood]

7 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Dack won’t be back til Xmas and will need time get back to his usually standards which still means we will be heavily reliant on the four aforementioned. Hopefully Holtby will be able to also contribute when fit

Yes that is true. However thinking longer term I imagine he will be back which can help. You're right it could make for a rougher first half of the season especially. I think Holtby and Armstrong could be a really good partnership. 

Also I was reminded of Hughes first season and a half here - bar Bellamy his strikers were pretty mediocre- Dickov, Kuqi, Stead but with a good team behind them and playing to their strengths they got a few goals. Even now, we're still scoring goals with only Graham to add to that. I was very worried about goals without Dack but we somehow seem to be doing ok. Whether we should be in this position of mediocre at best strikers bar Armstrong £12 mill + in is another question mind! 

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

Imagine if we somehow get to the play off final.

The final falls on May 25th, so at some point after that, Mowbray will have to go to India for a week to discuss budgets, following that he usually has a 2 week family holiday, and then the Euro's will be starting which will also be used as an excuse for "slow business".

Don't expect any signings until the players are deep into pre season training, and even then they no doubt will have to learn our complicated way of playing.

 

He’s going to be pretty shocked by the wages players want too.

[arbitro]

4 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

If you look at the use of loan players in this division you will see that the likes of West Brom and Leeds actually have a greater reliance on them than we do.

All defenders?

[47er]

10 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

We will be priced out of moves for Tosin or Walton unless we go up. So hopefully the Euro scouting network have identified a hard as nails Serb or 2 ,along with a couple of exotic and highly skilled full-backs 

Its our best season since we are relegated so just enjoy it mate! Stop worrying, it'll be OK.