Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Paul Mani]

Just now, unleaded said:

Knew it he was going to go with Bennett ... really out of touch our manager is and he’s getting very bitchy with each game that goes by .. we will learn and go onto the next one as he likes to keep saying ...I see no light and with each decision he makes gets worse and worse ... please get Rid of him before it’s too late ... 

He’s more tetchy because he knows he’s history if it continues. Venkys expectations high. Management team reckon they’ll be gone within 10 games if it doesn’t work out.

[Stuart]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

He’s more tetchy because he knows he’s history if it continues. Venkys expectations high. Management team reckon they’ll be gone within 10 games if it doesn’t work out.

He only has himself to blame.

[DE.]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2470452/Tony-Mowbray-leaves-Middlesbrough-difficult-start-Championship-season.html

"They were in the top three for most of last season until January and then went on an abysmal run of three wins from 21 games and finished 16th.

Boro have won just five games this calendar year, including two this season and just one away. They are currently 16th again, 10 points adrift of the top six and just four from Barnsley and the drop zone."

Eerie similarities. Wonder if Mowbray's getting deja vu?

[G Somerset Rover]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

He’s more tetchy because he knows he’s history if it continues. Venkys expectations high. Management team reckon they’ll be gone within 10 games if it doesn’t work out.

Obviously hope to God we’re not bottom or similar after ten games but that’s positive to hear that he’s feeling the pressure. Makes some of his decision even more bizarre though!

[Darwen Rover 007]

2 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I would have gone with either Lenihan or Johnson myself but it’s not difficult to see why he would choose Bennett.

Bit of an overreaction to throw the toys out of the pram on this issue if you ask me.

Not really, my issue is the message this sends out to both the players and fans..  Bennett is a good person, but he was found wanting last year and this year so far (granted I only saw the Charlton game).

Nyambe has played considerably better when called upon, blind loyalty usually always results in widespread morale issues..

Football like business should be a meritocracy and this is evidence that Mowbray is running a favouroracry! 

[TruRover]

If TM did go, who would people want instead and why

[Tormund]

Nyambe might aswell walk now then, unless Mowbray bothers to put Bennett in his actual position. 

[DE.]

Just now, TruRover said:

If TM did go, who would people want instead and why

The problem is whilst there are plenty of out of work managers people could make an argument for (Hughton, Pulis, Adkins, Rowett, Monk, etc) it's practially guaranteed Venky's would choose none of these. Every single time they have made an appointment completely out of left field. Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer, Lambert, Coyle, Mowbray - none of these were even mentioned let alone considered before they were appointed. Bowyer is the only exception due to his caretaker stint, but even so when Appleton was sacked nobody was saying that Bowyer should/could be our next permanent manager.

If Mowbray does go, he'll be replaced by somebody none of us expect, that much I'm sure of.

[DeeCee]

End of September for my judgement, not necessarily the results but the team selection/game plan

[arbitro]

Just now, DeeCee said:

End of September for my judgement, not necessarily the results but the team selection/game plan

I think that rightly so it will be only results that shift him. I honestly don't care about team selection or tactics if we win but conversely losing means he comes under greater scrutiny.

[tomphil]

It's plain crazy though it's all so avoidable just as it was last mid season the guy is either deluded so much by his loyalty to player pals or he wants out.

Such a shame if it goes tits up but don't know what he was expecting really although as iv'e said before i think him and the team have enough about them to get a few points and a more comfortable position in the table the next few months but where it goes by next May who knows.  Been banging on all along that he'll never change the way he works he's always done the same and flunked after a few seasons, not hard to see why yet a bit more planning and less old pals acts and he's a solid defence away from being a top ten finish championship manager IF his main men perform consistently, would've had that last season had he sorted the defence and not spewed money on an 'investment'.

[DeeCee]

Just now, tomphil said:

It's plain crazy though it's all so avoidable just as it was last mid season the guy is either deluded so much by his loyalty to player pals or he wants out.

Such a shame if it goes tits up but don't know what he was expecting really although as iv'e said before i think him and the team have enough about them to get a few points and a more comfortable position in the table the next few months but where it goes by next May who knows.  Been banging on all along that he'll never change the way he works he's always done the same and flunked after a few seasons, not hard to see why yet a bit more planning and less old pals acts and he's a solid defence away from being a top ten finish championship manager IF his main men perform consistently, would've had that last season had he sorted the defence and not spewed money on an 'investment'.

Not asking for much then?

[Miller11]

2 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Or they are so rich, and getting richer, it matters a lot less to them than the not wanting to admit failure.

I think we all have a tendency to overestimate how much the money they put into Rovers ultimately means to them.

Yes, they are sinking cash into a bottomless pit, but it’s not like they will be making any sacrifices... Balaji won’t be considering flogging a roller to make sure the guys in the ticket office get paid.

While we have a football club losing money hand over fist, one whim away from oblivion, they have a 99.9% share in a football club - to the value of about 180 million quid.

As part of their wider business portfolio, and sat alongside their other billions worth of assets, not only is it not a big deal... it makes sense for them to carry on as they are. “Pulling the plug would not only be catastrophic for us, but wipe the money they have “invested” so far off their net worth.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

3 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Or they are so rich, and getting richer, it matters a lot less to them than the not wanting to admit failure.

I suspect there's something in this. Possibly a cultural thing, losing the amount they are is far more acceptable than losing face. 

[davulsukur]

Just now, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

I suspect there's something in this. Possibly a cultural thing, losing the amount they are is far more acceptable than losing face. 

The company I work for have offices out in India and we use the staff on a daily basis, for the obvious reason they are cheap as hell.

I'd say a good 90% produce poor/lower quality of work than they should in their roles. And it's a constant battle going back and forth before you get what you want.

We had one guy, who was so bad, we ended up sending 3 or 4 emails to his manager out there about the poor quality of his work. His manager, just buried his head in the sand and didn't take our complaints seriously at all.

Without wanting to admit the bloke was a failure, he just moved him onto another project and that was the end of it.

Maybe it's a cultural thing and they don't want to admit failure, maybe they think they are doing a good job and see nothing wrong (something else that seems to happen a lot with the Indian teams we have), who knows?

As an aside, I've been to India (Bangalore) and its absolute fucking carnage, after being there, it's no surprise to see Venkys ownership of Rovers being the same. (Yes I'm aware they live in Pune)

[tomphil]

Iv'e never really bought that long term, maybe in the very early days but sorry any business persons very wealthy, cultural pride or anything otherwise would pull the plug and protect themselves their wealth and assets overnight if it was bringing them down.

[tomphil]

35 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

Not asking for much then?

Could say the same for Bowyer, Rhodes performed consistently which kept his head above water and if he had more experience and more about him his squad should have been top ten at least every season.

Same thing here if the men he has get some consistency it should be top ten despite his meddling etc.  Good defence and you're looking higher no doubts.

Edited August 12, 2019 by tomphil

[davulsukur]

Just now, tomphil said:

Iv'e never really bought that long term, maybe in the very early days but sorry any business persons very wealthy, cultural pride or anything otherwise would pull the plug and protect themselves their wealth and assets overnight if it was bringing them down.

Yer I don't think they'd hang onto us if it meant their business was suffering. 

To be honest they must know that the footballing world thinks they are a joke and some of the worst owners in the game? They must, surely.

So, how much face can they even save?

They might actually gain a bit of credit back if they sold us.

[tomphil]

Just now, davulsukur said:

Yer I don't think they'd hang onto us if it meant their business was suffering. 

To be honest they must know that the footballing world thinks they are a joke and some of the worst owners in the game? They must, surely.

So, how much face can they even save?

They might actually gain a bit of credit back if they sold us.

They been repackaged as generous owner on every live game in the league 1 season i also think in the last few years they could've slipped away quietly if they'd wanted as long as they weren't bankrupting the place.

Mind you if they wanted great publicity then writing off 170 million and putting the club in better hands would do the trick. They seem totally anonymous now aside from the logos at the ground and the odd '20 mill per season pouring in' comments from their media friends. JUst the way they like it i expect.

[Blue blood]

1 hour ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

I suspect there's something in this. Possibly a cultural thing, losing the amount they are is far more acceptable than losing face. 

Absolutely - having done a lot of work with international students saving face is as important as it gets. 

That said I so wonder if there's a hiding criminal activity from the early days of their ownership - although with the league's tardiness to discipline again this may be a face saving exercise as well as hiding illegalities. 

[Atko's Engine]

FWIW, I get the consternation on here but Mowbray out? Now? Be careful what you wish for.

We all knew when the fixtures were released that it was a very tough 6 games to start to the season, Charlton apart.  That's why I'd say he should be given a dozen league games (i.e. twice as many) to show his worth for this coming season.  Clearly if he's obviously lost the squad and / or every match after say 8 or 9 games then of course I'd understand him bring potted.

I don't think that's an arbitrary target, but gives sufficient time for the squad and league to settle down for everyone inside the club (i.e. Venkys) and outside the club (i.e. us) to assess progress (or lack thereof) and whether or not TM's plans are worth persevering with. If not, there's still enough time for an alternative solution to be found and time enough for that lucky so and so to assess the squad and decide what's needed in the January window.

[JHRover]

12 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

 

We all knew when the fixtures were released that it was a very tough 6 games to start to the season, Charlton apart.  

 

I don't like this categorising of fixtures into 'tough' or 'very tough' or 'winnable' etc. This appears to be based on either the profile of the clubs we are playing or if they have been in the Premier League recently. 

I don't believe any fixtures are especially tough or easier than the others. Stoke would be described as tough - they've lost both matches against unfancied teams. Cardiff were fancied - got beat off Wigan and scraped a home win against Luton. 

If you go through all 46 fixtures all but about 6-7 home games would have to be desribed as tough matches. Virtually every away game is classed as a tough place to go with our away record. We've already had a banana skin in Charlton which normally should have been a home banker. We're quickly running out of the 'easy' games. Even if survival is the aim you have to pick up points from games you aren't expected to. Our aim is supposed to be considerably higher than mere survival so we will need to outperform several of these tough teams.

Next two are Middlesbrough and Hull. These will be portrayed as 'tough' matches yet i see those as two sides who will be mid-table at best this season. Mowbray said we'd be chasing the play-offs this season so getting results against them will not be some sort of miracle. We need to do it. 

I don't really listen to Mowbray's interviews any more but expect on Thursday we will have the usual about what a massive brilliant club Middlesbrough are, how we'll try our best to compete blah blah blah. 

You make your own luck and win games against the odds. Reality is the way we are playing we won't win many no matter who the opposition. You need to be able to defend for 90 minutes and test the opposition goal and we're doing neither. 

Edited August 12, 2019 by JHRover

[Atko's Engine]

Everyone in football looks at fixtures and attempts to predict which will be the tough games & which will be easier, that's happened for as long as the game has existed. Of course that's only an exercise on paper and any given game can veer from the expected narrative at any time for a litany of reasons. 

However those reasons tend to even themselves out over an extended period of time, hence why I think 12 games (consisting of a mixture of perceived 'hard', 'winnable' & 'easy' games) is a decent timescale which allows for the quirks & anomalies of one or more individual games to be less noticeable when viewed in the wider context. 

Hence why I think making a judgment call on Mowbray 2 games into this season is unfair. 

[Paul Mani]

8 hours ago, TruRover said:

If TM did go, who would people want instead and why

I’d wanna give Johnson a go...

[47er]

6 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

Everyone in football looks at fixtures and attempts to predict which will be the tough games & which will be easier, that's happened for as long as the game has existed. Of course that's only an exercise on paper and any given game can veer from the expected narrative at any time for a litany of reasons. 

However those reasons tend to even themselves out over an extended period of time, hence why I think 12 games (consisting of a mixture of perceived 'hard', 'winnable' & 'easy' games) is a decent timescale which allows for the quirks & anomalies of one or more individual games to be less noticeable when viewed in the wider context. 

Hence why I think making a judgment call on Mowbray 2 games into this season is unfair. 

17 points from 19 games.....