Tony Mowbray Discussion

[speeeeeeedie]

This is round 200 of the same Mowbray discussion.

It's pretty clear that he is a decent man, a manager who players like, and a person who holds some integrity.

It's also clear that results under him, in the Championship anyway, are like a roller coaster. 5 or 6 games of promotion form is followed by a massive dip where relegation looks imminent.

This is who he is. He won't get fired, nor will he leave. He'll finish between 8th and 10th, then say the right things this summer.

[Scotland1]

11 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

Would a different manager not get more out of the likes of brereton, rothwell, gallagher and play anyone but beno at Lb. I feel like a different manager playing a different system, getting the most out the current squad round pegs in round holes etc. would need to make far fewer signings than tony would in order to get a bit of excitement back in the fans. That in itself is worth the 2m it might cost to sack him. 

 

Tbf Coyle got Gallagher on fire. He did ok at Birmingham but in both his spells under Mowbray he looks suffocated and obviously the goals have dried up

[simongarnerisgod]

Just now, Scotland1 said:

Tbf Coyle got Gallagher on fire. He did ok at Birmingham but in both his spells under Mowbray he looks suffocated and obviously the goals have dried up

coyle did the simple thing,played gallagher as proper c/f and got crosses and service to him,nothing complicated,don`t want to praise him but it`s an illustration on why you should put players in their proper positions and make them aware of their jobs

[RoverDom]

9 minutes ago, Scotland1 said:

Tbf Coyle got Gallagher on fire. He did ok at Birmingham but in both his spells under Mowbray he looks suffocated and obviously the goals have dried up

Exactly - and Brereton hasnt lived up to the hype when he first came here. Under Tony we need a decent centre forward which will cost us money. Or we could get rid for 2mill and get atleast one of Ben or Gallagher firing them in under a different manager

[RevidgeBlue]

7 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

coyle did the simple thing,played gallagher as proper c/f and got crosses and service to him,nothing complicated,don`t want to praise him but it`s an illustration on why you should put players in their proper positions and make them aware of their jobs

Not disagreeing with what Coyle got out of Gallagher compared to Mowbray but I thought the player also looked a lot more lithe willing and athletic during his first spell here.

He looks to have filled out substantially and doesn't look to have the same enthusiasm to me as he did first time round. This should have been obvious if we'd scouted him properly at Birmingham.

Not that I'd have re - signed him personally even on the basis of his first spell here. Maybe at a push if he'd been out of contract and free.

Edited July 1, 2020 by RevidgeBlue

[RevidgeBlue]

18 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

This is round 200 of the same Mowbray discussion.

It's pretty clear that he is a decent man, a manager who players like, and a person who holds some integrity.

It's also clear that results under him, in the Championship anyway, are like a roller coaster. 5 or 6 games of promotion form is followed by a massive dip where relegation looks imminent.

This is who he is. He won't get fired, nor will he leave. He'll finish between 8th and 10th, then say the right things this summer.

I used to think he was a man of integrity before he brought in Waggott as his boss, now I'm not having it.

Neither can I reconcile the actions of a man who gives contract extensions out to players who haven't featured all season as being those of someone with integrity.

He's mugging off the Club for the benefit of himself and his coaching staff and his favourite core of players imo. 

[G Somerset Rover]

26 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

coyle did the simple thing,played gallagher as proper c/f and got crosses and service to him,nothing complicated,don`t want to praise him but it`s an illustration on why you should put players in their proper positions and make them aware of their jobs

He shouldn't be playing RW end of, but he doesn't have a strikers instinct. He's never on the end of crosses - even Samuel showed him up on that yesterday (albeit with woeful finishing). 

[chaddyrovers]

17 hours ago, Mercer said:

For how long and why?

Would you ever sack him and under what circumstances?

hows long is a piece of string Mercer with 1st question

If we was lower than last season place finish next season after a number of games 

16 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Reasons?

I think we have improve from last season to this season. He has improved players like Nyambe, Lenihan, Travis and Armstrong into key players for our club and the future. He is bringing through players like Rankin Costello from our academy so I am pleased we are bringing through more and more of these players. His signings of Downing and Adarabioyo have been very good additions. Plus we have invested time and money into this European scouting Network so we have to give him time to make it work. Plus without Dack for half the season and us being so close this season means that with next season with a few good additions including an experience 1st choice keeper, partner for Lenihan and 1st choice left back I feel we can make the playoffs. With FFP rules and from what we can see in the accounts there does appear to be very little room for manoeuvre unless these FFP rules are change or relaxed for a season or 2.. Plus isn't our wage budget around mid table to lower half of the league.  

Yes Mowbray does have his faults and no one can deny this but I am believe that there is more positives than negatives about Mowbray's time at the club. 

Yes people will disagree with my point of view and that's fine by me. Everyone has their opinion on the type of manager or possible manager names they would like to see and the style of play they would like to see us play to progress us forward but I am happy with Mowbray to remain manager for next season. 

[chaddyrovers]

17 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

Is it just me who hasn't got a cue what a false 9 actually is. It seems to me like another example of Mowbray over complicating things. Just stick a a centre forward through the middle, it's not rocket science.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/what-is-a-false-nine-football-tactics-explained

Firmino at Liverpool is a false 9 striker. 

I have seen Messi or Fabregas play the false 9 role under Pep at Barcelona or Sterling has at City. Also Spain national played a false 9 during their successful time at national level 

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/what-is-a-false-nine-football-tactics-explained

Firmino at Liverpool is a false 9 striker. 

I have seen Messi or Fabregas play the false 9 role under Pep at Barcelona or Sterling has at City. Also Spain national played a false 9 during their successful time at national level 

Well if they can play that tactic, it should be no problem for the Rovers . But what I think Ewood ace meant is that a deep center forward is still a center forward the position doesn’t have to be given a separate name.

Edited July 1, 2020 by rigger

[JacknOry]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/what-is-a-false-nine-football-tactics-explained

Firmino at Liverpool is a false 9 striker. 

I have seen Messi or Fabregas play the false 9 role under Pep at Barcelona or Sterling has at City. Also Spain national played a false 9 during their successful time at national level 

All magnificent players playing with other magnificent players. Our players are not good enough to make that system work. he has tried it with Dack numerous times, Holtby now and while they are both good players, the rest of the team does not have the nous to play it.

Would love to see Liverpool, Barca or Man City pull it off with SG and BB on the wings.

Edited July 1, 2020 by JacknOry

[Exiled_Rover]

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

hows long is a piece of string Mercer with 1st question

If we was lower than last season place finish next season after a number of games 

I think we have improve from last season to this season. He has improved players like Nyambe, Lenihan, Travis and Armstrong into key players for our club and the future. He is bringing through players like Rankin Costello from our academy so I am pleased we are bringing through more and more of these players. His signings of Downing and Adarabioyo have been very good additions. Plus we have invested time and money into this European scouting Network so we have to give him time to make it work. Plus without Dack for half the season and us being so close this season means that with next season with a few good additions including an experience 1st choice keeper, partner for Lenihan and 1st choice left back I feel we can make the playoffs. With FFP rules and from what we can see in the accounts there does appear to be very little room for manoeuvre unless these FFP rules are change or relaxed for a season or 2.. Plus isn't our wage budget around mid table to lower half of the league.  

Yes Mowbray does have his faults and no one can deny this but I am believe that there is more positives than negatives about Mowbray's time at the club. 

Yes people will disagree with my point of view and that's fine by me. Everyone has their opinion on the type of manager or possible manager names they would like to see and the style of play they would like to see us play to progress us forward but I am happy with Mowbray to remain manager for next season. 

On the flip side, he's spunked £12m on two non-entities who he tries to shoe-horn into the squad (when he's not isolating one of them), completely unbalancing the side. This has also completely shafted us with FFP.

He also has a L1 footballer as our Captain and fits him into the starting XI any way he can. 

Is the club in a better state than when he took over? Undoubtedly. Has he taken the club as far as he can? Almost certainly.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Exiled_Rover

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, Exiled_Rover said:

On the flip side, he's spunked £12m on two non-entities who he tries to shoe-horn into the squad (when he's not isolating one of them), completely unbalancing the side. This has also completely shafted us with FFP.

He also has a L1 footballer as our Captain and fits him into the starting XI any way he can. 

Is the club in a better state than when he took over? Undoubtedly. Has he taken the club as far as he can? Almost certainly.

Like I said Mowbray has his faults. I have posted my thoughts on the Brereton and Gallagher signings over the past months and years. I did think Brereton signing was a good signing at the time from what I seen of the player at that time. Now if both signings have fired us to promotion then he would be hailed as a hero and masterclass Mowbray. Other teams have wasted money on Strikers over the last year but only hindsight time you this. 

Why are so many people obsess who the captain is. Cos tbh it doesn't matter in all honest

Yes the club is in much better state when he took over and no I disagree he has taken the club as far as he can. 

[JacknOry]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Like I said Mowbray has his faults. I have posted my thoughts on the Brereton and Gallagher signings over the past months and years. I did think Brereton signing was a good signing at the time from what I seen of the player at that time. Now if both signings have fired us to promotion then he would be hailed as a hero and masterclass Mowbray. Other teams have wasted money on Strikers over the last year but only hindsight time you this. 

Why are so many people obsess who the captain is. Cos tbh it doesn't matter in all honest

Yes the club is in much better state when he took over and no I disagree he has taken the club as far as he can. 

it matters cos your captain should be someone who is one of the first names on the teamsheet (if not the first). Gives him another ready made excuse to slot Benno in somewhere. 

[Stuart]

9 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Mowbray's contract lasts until 2022.  With the club reluctant to refund season ticket holders, due to the financial situation, I doubt much thought will be given to paying off Mowbray and his staff anytime soon.  

The events at Wigan show just how precarious the situation is for many clubs - Rovers included - due to the virus.  I've no doubt that Mowbray will, at the very least, be given next season to try to break into the top six.  With finances so stretched I'm not sure how he - or indeed anyone who took his place - will be able to rebuild the squad in the way that it needs.  Personally, I like Mowbray and think, on the whole, he has done a decent job since he arrived.  Like all managers he has made mistakes. Some of the tactics can seem strange - still no idea was a false 9 is - unless it's another way of describing Gallagher or Brereton in terms of non-scoring forwards. Those two have been huge disappoints and costly mistakes.   A bit like Bob Saxton before him, he's been loyal to players and, like Saxton, that may ultimately cost him.  But, due to the financial situation I suspect he will see out his contract unless he decides otherwise.

Not buying that. Extending deals for non-playing players, who aren’t up to standard, undermines the pauper approach.

[roversfan99]

18 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

hows long is a piece of string Mercer with 1st question

If we was lower than last season place finish next season after a number of games 

I think we have improve from last season to this season. He has improved players like Nyambe, Lenihan, Travis and Armstrong into key players for our club and the future. He is bringing through players like Rankin Costello from our academy so I am pleased we are bringing through more and more of these players. His signings of Downing and Adarabioyo have been very good additions. Plus we have invested time and money into this European scouting Network so we have to give him time to make it work. Plus without Dack for half the season and us being so close this season means that with next season with a few good additions including an experience 1st choice keeper, partner for Lenihan and 1st choice left back I feel we can make the playoffs. With FFP rules and from what we can see in the accounts there does appear to be very little room for manoeuvre unless these FFP rules are change or relaxed for a season or 2.. Plus isn't our wage budget around mid table to lower half of the league.  

Yes Mowbray does have his faults and no one can deny this but I am believe that there is more positives than negatives about Mowbray's time at the club. 

Yes people will disagree with my point of view and that's fine by me. Everyone has their opinion on the type of manager or possible manager names they would like to see and the style of play they would like to see us play to progress us forward but I am happy with Mowbray to remain manager for next season. 

1. The concept of progress and improvement now does somewhat hang in the balance. We are 4 points behind last seasons points tally, with 6 difficult games to go including the top 2, Cardiff and Milwall. If we was to finish on the same or even less points than last season, would that cause any doubts as to whether youd want him to stay?

2. You regularly mention this European scouting network. Firstly I feel that you are under delusions of grandeur in terms of it all clicking into place and our summer will just be first of all a normal one considering the pandemic (example A being Wigan) and also that we are going to go and sign numerous players from the continent to improve us. But presuming that it is all systems go, why does that have to stop with Mowbray? The scouting network surely doesnt stop in his head.

3. You mention his signings which are a mixed bag but in terms of progress, it doesnt look good. Firstly, obviously we have lost Raya, with his faults sure, signed a goalkeeper no better who this summer has gone. So this summer to last summer, we are down an asset. We spent that money and a bit more on possibly our biggest owner who is absolute shite and a total liability on our wage bill. We cant get rid and hes of no use. Throw in Johnson, another high earning non contributor and weve got 2 big earning failures and of course a hole instead of an asset in goal. Holtby is a good addition for another season who has mainly been used wrongly, Adarabioyo has been good but will go back and leave a hole, and Downing again has been a good signing might get another year but even post lockdown his influence is waning. Are we even in a better position compared to last summer in terms of this seasons recruitment? Not sure we are at all.

4. The 4 you mentioned are all key, but is Rankin Costello a symbol of success on Mowbrays behalf? An assist for a fifth goal at Sheffield Wednesday his sole contribution to date. Buckley has only really had one good game. Chapman has been totally wasted. Davenport has also rotted away and the less said about Brereton the better. Not sure that area really is a qualified success either.

5. You are constantly defending the club for its policy (inconsistently applied in Bell's case) of dithering and waiting regarding budgets. Do you agree that with any lingering play off hopes now gone, the budget should be agreed NOW between our incompetent owners and the manager to ensure that we can be proactive?

 

[phili]

42 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

I think we have improve from last season to this season. He has improved players like Nyambe, Lenihan, Travis and Armstrong into key players for our club and the future. He is bringing through players like Rankin Costello from our academy so I am pleased we are bringing through more and more of these players. His signings of Downing and Adarabioyo have been very good additions. Plus we have invested time and money into this European scouting Network so we have to give him time to make it work. Plus without Dack for half the season and us being so close this season means that with next season with a few good additions including an experience 1st choice keeper, partner for Lenihan and 1st choice left back I feel we can make the playoffs. With FFP rules and from what we can see in the accounts there does appear to be very little room for manoeuvre unless these FFP rules are change or relaxed for a season or 2.. Plus isn't our wage budget around mid table to lower half of the league.  

 

Have Nyambe, Lenihan and Travis improved under Tony's coaching though? I am not that sure, Travis is certainly no where near the player he should be. His natural box to box game seems to have been coached out of him and we will end up selling him for a lot less than we could have done.

The whole point of coaching should be to improve the value of the player both financially and to the benefit of the team and our set up is a long way from doing that.

[roversfan99]

Just now, phili said:

Have Nyambe, Lenihan and Travis improved under Tony's coaching though? I am not that sure, Travis is certainly no where near the player he should be. His natural box to box game seems to have been coached out of him and we will end up selling him for a lot less than we could have done.

The whole point of coaching should be to improve the value of the player both financially and to the benefit of the team and our set up is a long way from doing that.

To be fair to Mowbray, I dont think its fair to give him anything but praise regarding Travis. He has consistently and quite rightly played him since he broke through and often with Evans to allow Travis to break forward.

Nyambe is an interesting one. He has come on leaps and bounds this season but hes still far from the complete player and there was a long while when Bennett was shoehorned in over him which cant have helped.

[phili]

Also what is the point of our European Scouting Network with FFP hanging over us? 

If FFP is still being implemented next season and to comply we need to reduce our losses by around £8-10m, so talk of a transfer budget and increased wages is pretty far fetched.. We all know we need 5-6 new players in the summer to stay still never mind progress and I don't know how that can be achieved.

The Covid crisis will most probably mean our season ticket sales, whenever they go on sale, will be down to around 4,000. So another £2m of lost revenue from these need to be found as well.

[AllRoverAsia]

3 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

This is round 200 of the same Mowbray discussion.

It's pretty clear that he is a decent man, a manager who players like, and a person who holds some integrity.

It's also clear that results under him, in the Championship anyway, are like a roller coaster. 5 or 6 games of promotion form is followed by a massive dip where relegation looks imminent.

This is who he is. He won't get fired, nor will he leave. He'll finish between 8th and 10th, then say the right things this summer.

Well at least he had success at the 'relegation looks imminent' tactic. That worked well for him, came back as a God who saved us from L1.

[Elvis Biro]

At last I've finally got the Tony M masterplan! No scintilla of a clue as to player recruitment/tactics/team selection/corporate structure or any of that shit? Compliant,dozy faraway owners who don't give a toss and will continue to bankroll you, seemingly endlessly? Then just wait for all the the teams above you to go into administration! It might take a while, but hey, we've got plenty of that, and I think those dozy arseholes in Pune will welcome a long term, well thought out plan.

 

I'm 67 years old, I've been watching and supporting the Rovers since the late fifties. And I'm bloody depressed.

[AllRoverAsia]

 

 

 

 

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3

Just now, Elvis Biro said:

At last I've finally got the Tony M masterplan! No scintilla of a clue as to player recruitment/tactics/team selection/corporate structure or any of that shit? Compliant,dozy faraway owners who don't give a toss and will continue to bankroll you, seemingly endlessly? Then just wait for all the the teams above you to go into administration! It might take a while, but hey, we've got plenty of that, and I think those dozy arseholes in Pune will welcome a long term, well thought out plan.

 

I'm 67 years old, I've been watching and supporting the Rovers since the late fifties. And I'm bloody depressed.

I'm 68 and this shower of shit have ruined a decade of my life BUT I got to see Bryan Douglas grace Ewood Park so feck them all, Mowbray, Waffott included. 

[Elvis Biro]

Amen to that. I went to The testimonial matches of Clayton and Douglas.

[Claytons Left Boot]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/what-is-a-false-nine-football-tactics-explained

Firmino at Liverpool is a false 9 striker. 

I have seen Messi or Fabregas play the false 9 role under Pep at Barcelona or Sterling has at City. Also Spain national played a false 9 during their successful time at national level 

As well as playing a false 9, we also play a false 1 in the nets, a false 3 at left back, a false 7 on the right wing and any number of other false numbers wherever the square pegs are being pushed into round holes. Even Mr Mowbray could be deemed a false manager..

[simongarnerisgod]

4 minutes ago, Elvis Biro said:

Amen to that. I went to The testimonial matches of Clayton and Douglas.

mowbray would have said to douglas "you`re to flighty and play to far up the pitch,forget all that attacking stuff,similarly to clayton "sorry ronnie,you`re not developed enough to play in the first team, and you don`t listen to me enough"