Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Ewood Ace]

29 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

1. yes 6 games to go with 4 games against top half which statically we do better against. 

No we don't we have 21 points against sides in the top half and 35 against sides in the bottom half.

[roversfan99]

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

so on to your points. 

1. yes 6 games to go with 4 games against top half which statically we do better against. 

2. Different managers use and want different things from the scouting department. Not every manager will want signings from Europe or from the leagues we have scouted. Some managers will want to bring in their own scouts or head of recruitment. 

3. We all know what want on with us trying to get a replacement in for Raya who wanted out from Rovers. Mowbray has said he is going to try to bring Adarabioyo back to Rovers if he can next season. Downing will deffo get another 12 months and right so. His influence is waning since Lockdown. really? He had a good game against Bristol City, Poor at Wigan and Okay yesterday. On Summer signings, I have said what we need in terms of recruiting signings this next transfer window which is around 6 signings without losing any key players. 

4. Rankin Costello and Buckley are a symbol of Mowbray and the staff at Brockhall working and developing these academy players. Chapman and Davenport arent from our Academy which was my original point. We have Hayden Carter, Lewis Thompson, Jack Vale, etc who are exciting prospects coming through our Academy setup and hopefully into the 1st team

5. 6 games to go and still Cardiff, WBA, Leeds and Millwall to play so we have a chance. Might not be a great chance but still a chance. Mowbray has said he has different transfer targets lists depending on the budget plus as I have highlighted to yourself several times which you overlook every single time we have no restart date, no decision on FFP rules being relax like UEFA have done, possible salary cap coming in, The latest Coronavirus situation 

1. So would your declaration of progress and/or your view on Mowbray continuing if we was not to beat the 60 point total from last season?

2. Why would a new manager rip up the supposed work done on widening the scope for potential new signings? To br honest this summer the idea of plucking signings from all 4 corners of the globe seems fanciful considering the current situation anyway. But theres no justification that Mowbray should stay in case a new manager doesnt for whatever reason want an enhanced scouting network.

3. Again I think you are being optimistic expecting an influx of signings but my point is long term you could argue we have actually gone backwards this season in terms of recruitment. We have added 2 big earners who we would find it impossible to shift but neither of whom are any real use. We have also lost the aforementioned keeper we had. The 2 most successful signings are a soon to be 36 year old midfielder who might contribute for another season, and a centre back who will almost certainly go back in 6 games. Recruitment in the last 12 months has a big cross on it.

4. I dont get why you are naming youngsters in your argument of Mowbray should stay. If you said Travis he certainly deserves credit for him. Buckley has played bits and bobs almost exclusively out of position and not established himself. Rankin Costello has made only 2 starts (and struggled im both) so again at this point judging Mowbray is not evidence of anything positive. Thompson cant make the 9 man bench even when all of our left backs are injured, Vale made the bench for the first time yesterday with little appetite to bring him on, and Carter has again been on the bench to make up the numbers. When a gap came available he would rather bring back Mulgrew who he has written off prior. None of these are points which enhance Mowbrays position at this time. 

5. The issue about waiting for budgets is a long standing problem and you know that and constantly brush it off. "Its the way they work." Why is the start date so critical, early September, late September, early October, late October, the need for players is exactly the same regardless! And FFP or no FFP,  we are going to have a very limited budget, which is why we need to steal a march on the best cheap freebies to fill the gaps, and ideally let all but Downing go from the out of contracters.

[chaddyrovers]

23 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

1. So would your declaration of progress and/or your view on Mowbray continuing if we was not to beat the 60 point total from last season?

2. Why would a new manager rip up the supposed work done on widening the scope for potential new signings? To br honest this summer the idea of plucking signings from all 4 corners of the globe seems fanciful considering the current situation anyway. But theres no justification that Mowbray should stay in case a new manager doesnt for whatever reason want an enhanced scouting network.

3. Again I think you are being optimistic expecting an influx of signings but my point is long term you could argue we have actually gone backwards this season in terms of recruitment. We have added 2 big earners who we would find it impossible to shift but neither of whom are any real use. We have also lost the aforementioned keeper we had. The 2 most successful signings are a soon to be 36 year old midfielder who might contribute for another season, and a centre back who will almost certainly go back in 6 games. Recruitment in the last 12 months has a big cross on it.

4. I dont get why you are naming youngsters in your argument of Mowbray should stay. If you said Travis he certainly deserves credit for him. Buckley has played bits and bobs almost exclusively out of position and not established himself. Rankin Costello has made only 2 starts (and struggled im both) so again at this point judging Mowbray is not evidence of anything positive. Thompson cant make the 9 man bench even when all of our left backs are injured, Vale made the bench for the first time yesterday with little appetite to bring him on, and Carter has again been on the bench to make up the numbers. When a gap came available he would rather bring back Mulgrew who he has written off prior. None of these are points which enhance Mowbrays position at this time. 

5. The issue about waiting for budgets is a long standing problem and you know that and constantly brush it off. "Its the way they work." Why is the start date so critical, early September, late September, early October, late October, the need for players is exactly the same regardless! And FFP or no FFP,  we are going to have a very limited budget, which is why we need to steal a march on the best cheap freebies to fill the gaps, and ideally let all but Downing go from the out of contracters.

on your points 

1. Mowbray stays in place as we will be past last season points and places by end of the season

2. Different managers want to work with their staff they know and trust. No one has said we will plucking signings from all 4 corners of the globe tho have I? NO! Rovers have targeted different leagues where we hope to find players we can sign. Managers might want a British based squad or number of different scenarios. 

3. no one is expecting an influx of signings but 6 sensible signings is what we need. You would say we have gone backwards in terms of recruitments so support your points. I would disagree with that. 

4. Well why shouldnt I be naming the Young players Mowbray and his staff are bringing through and developing. You have to make sure the young players are ready for championship before playing them. Players like Carter, Vale, Thompson are players Mowbray and his staff rate and are looking to bring through. Mowbray wants to loan Thompson and Hilton out next season so they can play regular 1st team football. With regards to Rankin-Costello he has started 3 games and only 1 in his natural position on the wide left. one at left back and one in a number 10 role which he didn't suit it one bit. Personally I think you are over critical of him. I have watched these players coming from through the under 18's and under 23's and hopefully in the 1st team. Its great to see that Rovers have so many good prospects coming through and path way for them into the 1st team squad and 11. 

5. I have told you my thoughts on this already and you keep ignoring them so I am going to leave it there cos i am bringing my head against brick wall

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

on your points 

1. Mowbray stays in place as we will be past last season points and places by end of the season

Mowbray's own target was 70 points. He needs 14 points from the last 6 games just to meet his own target, which will be difficult. If he can't even hit his own target then why would we want to keep him?

[Ewood Ace]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

4. Well why shouldnt I be naming the Young players Mowbray and his staff are bringing through and developing. You have to make sure the young players are ready for championship before playing them. Players like Carter, Vale, Thompson are players Mowbray and his staff rate and are looking to bring through. Mowbray wants to loan Thompson and Hilton out next season so they can play regular 1st team football. With regards to Rankin-Costello he has started 3 games and only 1 in his natural position on the wide left. one at left back and one in a number 10 role which he didn't suit it one bit. Personally I think you are over critical of him. I have watched these players coming from through the under 18's and under 23's and hopefully in the 1st team. Its great to see that Rovers have so many good prospects coming through and path way for them into the 1st team squad and 11. 

How can you say with certainty that he rates Thompson. The lad is nearly 21 we have Williams, Bell and JRC out injured are allowed 9 subs and he still can't make the bench. If he rated him at all then surely he would have had him in the squad when we are completely depleted at left back.

[tomphil]

We'll win the last 3 or 4 games and he'll be the messiah again although there'll be no play offs.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

on your points 

1. Mowbray stays in place as we will be past last season points and places by end of the season

2. Different managers want to work with their staff they know and trust. No one has said we will plucking signings from all 4 corners of the globe tho have I? NO! Rovers have targeted different leagues where we hope to find players we can sign. Managers might want a British based squad or number of different scenarios. 

3. no one is expecting an influx of signings but 6 sensible signings is what we need. You would say we have gone backwards in terms of recruitments so support your points. I would disagree with that. 

4. Well why shouldnt I be naming the Young players Mowbray and his staff are bringing through and developing. You have to make sure the young players are ready for championship before playing them. Players like Carter, Vale, Thompson are players Mowbray and his staff rate and are looking to bring through. Mowbray wants to loan Thompson and Hilton out next season so they can play regular 1st team football. With regards to Rankin-Costello he has started 3 games and only 1 in his natural position on the wide left. one at left back and one in a number 10 role which he didn't suit it one bit. Personally I think you are over critical of him. I have watched these players coming from through the under 18's and under 23's and hopefully in the 1st team. Its great to see that Rovers have so many good prospects coming through and path way for them into the 1st team squad and 11. 

5. I have told you my thoughts on this already and you keep ignoring them so I am going to leave it there cos i am bringing my head against brick wall

Fair enough. Your illogical argument is summed up by listing 6 academy graduates to try and strengthen the point that Mowbray should stay, of whom only 2 have appeared in the first team, fleetingly and predominantly out of position and have struggled to hold their own, and the other 4 (2 of whom are in positions whereby we have had numerous absences) are as of yet unused. When shown how illogical an argument that is, you then suggest they arent ready. Which im not saying they are or that they should play, but how on earth is that a logical point?!

IMO expecting a constructive transfer window is totally illogical considering that apart from Armstrong who we had in League 1 anyway, the transfer recruitment since promotion has not progressed us long term, with only short term signings (Reed, Adarabioyo, Downing) excelling, especially when we are in a pandemic and will likely have minimal budget to work with, compared to the very healthy budget blown to date. The squad is still horribly imbalanced and has numerous additional expensive liabilities (Gallagher, Brereton, Johnson) and non contributing wage drains (Rothwell, Chapman, Davenport) that we are lumbered with.

The conversation is all moot because he wont be going anywhere, he has a cosy job with his mate Waggott and even if there was a desire to freshen up I am almost certain that we couldnt afford it.

[Fraserkirky]

We don’t have any idea how many signings we really need until some of these youngsters get a real chance in these empty last 6 games. Left Back, Centre Half and Keeper are a given.
I would be happier with Mowbray if he just committed to playing the younger players and the players that are contracted for next year.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Fraserkirky

[jw_]

I notice a lot of people seem to think we will do well in the next six games, well in my opinion I don't. Remember that horror run we went on last year when 1 point outside the playoffs well I think the same thing is happening and honestly I can't see this team winning in the near future. It pains me to say that but thanks to Mowbray they will shuffle sideways, sideways and back into oblivion. I started following Rovers in 1952 (yes I'm an old git) and it hurts to see the abject performances put in regularly week in week out by all the well known culprits in the team.

The simple fact is that Mowbray has failed but because of the equally failed owners it is allowed to continue and unfortunately I can't see things changing.

We can only hope.

[AllRoverAsia]

4 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

Mowbray's own target was 70 points. He needs 14 points from the last 6 games just to meet his own target, which will be difficult. If he can't even hit his own target then why would we want to keep him?

He will not get close to his target.

In the real world the Owners and Board would have started their inquiry and researching replacements.

Meanwhile Waggott is shitting  his pants about ST sales but reckons he can save his arse but more fleecing of the diminishing fan base. The Owners don't give a flying one.

Facebook fans call for a Mowbray statue to commemorate his saving Rovers from longterm L1 plus a Flag the size of the BBE.

Mowbray and Waggott like this.

Back to the point. He will not get near his target but his job is the safest in the UK.

[philipl]

If by some miracle we went up.

There are 20 managers at the current Premier League clubs I would back to outwit Mowbray tactically even before we start to think about player for player differences.

Absolutely no way would Mowbray keep us up.

[OldEwoodBlue]

Way back to the start of the season....

The target this season (as stated by the club) was progression measured by challenging for the play offs.

Fact is if we finish 7th or 8th AND miss out by a point or 2 then we met the target. Play offs would be exceeding. Promotion we are simply nowhere near ready for.

However finishing 10th on similar points to last season is a massive failure.

[chaddyrovers]

9 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

How can you say with certainty that he rates Thompson. The lad is nearly 21 we have Williams, Bell and JRC out injured are allowed 9 subs and he still can't make the bench. If he rated him at all then surely he would have had him in the squad when we are completely depleted at left back.

Cos of a conversation that a friend of mine with Mowbray after the last supporters consultation meeting.

[AllRoverAsia]

Mowbray's Goalposts - there has to be a book in that title, a mix of fiction and whodunit

[Mattyblue]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cos of a conversation that a friend of mine with Mowbray after the last supporters consultation meeting.

So why do you think he wasn’t given a place on a 9 man subs bench when he is the only fit left back (not counting academy)  at the club? Doesn’t seem to me that he’s knocking on the door...

[K-Hod]

Even if Mowbray doesn’t meet the points target of 70 (don’t get me wrong, I don’t think he will), do we really think this is something Venky’s judge him on, or set him themselves?

I’ve got my doubts....

[benhben]

David Dunn odds on favourite for the Barrow job. Id take him to replace Mowbray...he might be awful but id take the risk at the moment. A blackburn lad in charge with an experienced no 2. Ill keep dreaming...

[Eddie]

18 hours ago, rigger said:

Have you watched the last two performances. Inept to say the least. Where is our next point coming from.

We can't be overly dramatic. We had chances to take the lead in both matches, especially the Barnsley match, and it is clear that we will pick up points over the remainder of the season.

We certainly deserved at least a point or two from the last two fixtures, but that isn't me trying to ignore how bad the performances were in the context of us having a realistic chance at making the playoffs.

But we look irrational if we start saying that we aren't even a competent Championship club when we end up finishing 9th-12th and a few points off of the playoffs - especially when considering the fact that one of the teams that just beat us has just gone into administration and will surely go down.

[Gav]

Football fans have short memories, you're only as good as your last game, even the Utd fans started to turn on Ferguson towards the end, its the nature of the beautiful game.

Tony Mowbray arrived here taking over from probably the worst manager in Blackburn Rovers history and we've had some cr@p under Venkys. He inherited a squad on easy street, unfit, uninterested and not fit for purpose, we went down, not his fault. Behind the scenes we had a bean counter running the show, Mowbray helped bring Waggot to the club, a man that at the very least has experience of running a football club, exactly what we needed.

The following season was a good season for the fans, new grounds, full terraces, big fish in a small pond and promotion won away at Doncaster, great night for all concerned, will live long in the memory, back up at the first attempt, job done.

We are now coming to the end of his second season in the Championship, our league position tells us we are probably going to finish higher than last season, so progress is being made, but not as fast as some would like, me included. His star striker buys have been a disaster, some believe he was forced into the purchase of Brereton, I think he wilfully bought Gallagher, both have flopped so far and he will pay the price is they don't improve, no doubt about that. 

Looking towards next season, he needs to be given a chance until October/November time for me, see if he can't pull this Championship seasoned squad into shape. We have a decent first 11, but they're not good enough to make a sustained challenge for the playoffs, he needs to add some steel, some more experience that will complement the likes of Lenihan, Dack and dare I say it Gallagher.

You look at the football league as it stands, I'd much rather be in Blackburn Rovers shoes than Sunderland, Bolton, Sheff Weds and Wigan, so its not all doom and gloom, is it?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

37 minutes ago, benhben said:

David Dunn odds on favourite for the Barrow job. Id take him to replace Mowbray...he might be awful but id take the risk at the moment. A blackburn lad in charge with an experienced no 2. Ill keep dreaming...

I want an new manager but not that badly.

[Mattyblue]

I don’t really give Mowbray much thought either way. 

What’s the point getting wound up over the manager, potential replacements and all the rest of it. A decade of these owners tells me that normal managerial position rules don’t seem to apply here. He’ll go, probably out of the blue, but it won’t be anytime soon. He’s one of the few powerful people in the whole club, on a par with, if not more powerful than his own ‘boss’.

So I don’t get wound up wasting energy over it... oh for a normal football club! 

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 minutes ago, Gav said:

Football fans have short memories, you're only as good as your last game, even the Utd fans started to turn on Ferguson towards the end, its the nature of the beautiful game.

Tony Mowbray arrived here taking over from probably the worst manager in Blackburn Rovers history and we've had some cr@p under Venkys. He inherited a squad on easy street, unfit, uninterested and not fit for purpose, we went down, not his fault. Behind the scenes we had a bean counter running the show, Mowbray helped bring Waggot to the club, a man that at the very least has experience of running a football club, exactly what we needed.

The following season was a good season for the fans, new grounds, full terraces, big fish in a small pond and promotion won away at Doncaster, great night for all concerned, will live long in the memory, back up at the first attempt, job done.

We are now coming to the end of his second season in the Championship, our league position tells us we are probably going to finish higher than last season, so progress is being made, but not as fast as some would like, me included. His star striker buys have been a disaster, some believe he was forced into the purchase of Brereton, I think he wilfully bought Gallagher, both have flopped so far and he will pay the price is they don't improve, no doubt about that. 

Looking towards next season, he needs to be given a chance until October/November time for me, see if he can't pull this Championship seasoned squad into shape. We have a decent first 11, but they're not good enough to make a sustained challenge for the playoffs, he needs to add some steel, some more experience that will complement the likes of Lenihan, Dack and dare I say it Gallagher.

You look at the football league as it stands, I'd much rather be in Blackburn Rovers shoes than Sunderland, Bolton, Sheff Weds and Wigan, so its not all doom and gloom, is it?

If I was a manager and the powers that be tried to to foist a player on me it'd be time to go. Especially given the circumstances of the Brereton signing.  " Accepting responsibility without the power to control events " is to be avoided at all costs.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I don’t really give Mowbray much thought either way. 

What’s the point getting wound up over the manager, potential replacements and all the rest of it. A decade of these owners tells me that normal managerial position rules don’t seem to apply here. He’ll go, probably out of the blue, but it won’t be anytime soon. He’s one of the few powerful people in the whole club, on a par with, if not more powerful than his own ‘boss’.

So I don’t get wound up wasting energy over it... oh for a normal football club! 

 

Yes, that's the crux of the issue. At Rovers the normal rules don't apply. Appointing Coyle when we could have had Warnock tells you all you need to know.

I'll always be a Rovers fan but my interest is diminishing rapidly. I could have watched the Barnsley game at my sons place but I couldn't be bothered going up to his house. I'm glad I didn't bother now. Just give me a group of players I can be proud of, they don't have to be brilliant footballers, they just need to look like they want to be playing for us.

[rigger]

37 minutes ago, Eddie said:

We can't be overly dramatic. We had chances to take the lead in both matches, especially the Barnsley match, and it is clear that we will pick up points over the remainder of the season.

We certainly deserved at least a point or two from the last two fixtures, but that isn't me trying to ignore how bad the performances were in the context of us having a realistic chance at making the playoffs.

But we look irrational if we start saying that we aren't even a competent Championship club when we end up finishing 9th-12th and a few points off of the playoffs - especially when considering the fact that one of the teams that just beat us has just gone into administration and will surely go down.

What is irrationally is saying we are a competent championship team on the strength of finishing 9th-12th when we haven’t  finished. We have taken 5points from the last 18 available. That is a fact.

Edited July 2, 2020 by rigger

[oldjamfan1]

32 minutes ago, Gav said:

Tony Mowbray arrived here taking over from probably the worst manager in Blackburn Rovers history and we've had some cr@p under Venkys.

Controversial that one Gav ha ha.

For all that I despise Coyle I would still rate him above at least three others in my lifetime. Surely K**n has to be the worst? Jim Iley wasn't very good either. Ince, Kidd, etc etc