Tony Mowbray Discussion

[tomphil]

I don't think our squad suits a Pullis or McCarthy at the min to be honest we just aren't physical enough or big enough. If either could bring in a several new defenders and a couple up top, big lad and a reliable goal scorer then maybe we'd move up a notch.  That's unlikely in the near future.

All this talk of wages now some tables have been produced has distracted some from the transfer pot he's had. Compared to Neil at Preston and some others 15 million to spend on 3 forwards is huge.  Yet we still have the same old weak spots and 12 of that 15 appears wasted.

What we need is someone who can add a few astute additions. finally free us of the old pals deadwood act and make this squad overachieve. What TM gets out of them is exactly what they are which really is a reflection of him and his approach to it, a plodder plodding along just doing enough and looking after everybody.

He won't put his foot on the gas unless he's told to and it doesn't look like anybody will anytime soon. We've said this before but maybe a decent coach next to him to add a bit of venom. Or even a DOF in between him and Waggot, someone not connected to the usual hidden little scenario and who knows what they are doing. Keep an eye on the signings and progress of youngsters and just keep enough pressure on him to put out the best side constantly.

He needs a bit of help imo - not that he'd welcome it but free reign at a club needs some scrutiny not a meeting every six months.

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Bit like you using them, Liverpool and Barca as an example of why we should use the False 9

I never said we should use the false 9 at all tho? So your comment above is wrong and should be withdrawal. 

I said we should continue the 4-3-3 system but play a number 9 like Armstrong up front. 

Also just for record some posters didn't know what a false 9 was so I found the info what the role is and players who play this role. 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[philipl]

A good manager would be arguing the toss on Ben's red card. Mowbray has just hung him out to dry.

[Mattyblue]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I never said we should use the false 9 at all tho? So you comment above is wrong and should be withdrawal. 

 

You Speaker of the House now? 

[chaddyrovers]

On 30/06/2020 at 23:31, chaddyrovers said:

I like the 4-3-3 system as such but Armstrong need to be the main striker in the 9 role not as false 9. 

Or you go back to 4-2-3-1 system with Armstrong up front and Holtby as 10. 

 

 

On 01/07/2020 at 17:46, chaddyrovers said:

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/what-is-a-false-nine-football-tactics-explained

Firmino at Liverpool is a false 9 striker. 

I have seen Messi or Fabregas play the false 9 role under Pep at Barcelona or Sterling has at City. Also Spain national played a false 9 during their successful time at national level 

So @JacknOry Here are 2 comments that back up my point above so will you withdraw the wrong comment above please? 

[tomphil]

Order ! Orderrrrr !

Let the honorable gentleman have his say ?

[K-Hod]

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

So @JacknOry Here are 2 comments that back up my point above so will you withdraw the wrong comment above please? 

Hiya Chaddy, can you leave the moderating to the moderating team please? 
Ta.

[Amo]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

I agree. The lack of any pressure on the manager means that losing doesn’t matter. Obviously we will slide down, and eventually out of, the division but it doesn’t make any difference to anyone running the club. Any change seems totally reliant on Mowbray doing the decent thing - but why would he?

We all laughed when Kean talked about dew on the grass because he was so despised but if Mowbray made the same comment half of our fans would agree with him because his image as a “football statesman”.

Mowbray is the second longest serving Championship manager behind Lee Johnson. In my view it’s because of the “little old Blackburn Rovers” ideology that the current regime have installed. Doing nothing to increase footfall while having Venkys foot the bill for losses means this can be peddled as a reason why we are “lucky to be in the Championship thanks to Mowbray”. How many of our fans will soon only ever know us as a midtable second tier side who shouldn’t expect any better? Rovers have ALWAYS been striving for success, now we strive for mediocrity disguised as survival (while having wealthy owners). Worst of all, as soon as the cash does dry up, Waggott and Mowbray will be long gone with fans left to pick up the pieces.

I want us to get back to being one of those clubs where “managers live and die by results”. Which is pretty much every other club. Let’s hope our next owners actually give a shit about being successful because when they don’t then eventually nobody will.

Based on Venky's track record, Mowbray probably has the highest approval rating of any manager they've hired, due in part to the "stability" he's brought to the club, and the personality cult manufactured by the PR department of this avuncular safe pair of hands. Currently, we are a middling Championship side that's flirting with the playoffs but never following through. Fans would generally prefer to stick with Uncle Tony and hope he stumbles on the magic formula to mount a promotion push than risk Venky's playing Russian Roulette. 

That seems to be the long and short of it, imo. 

 

[Stuart]

Just now, Amo said:

Based on Venky's track record, Mowbray probably has the highest approval rating of any manager they've hired, due in part to the "stability" he's brought to the club, and the personality cult manufactured by the PR department of this avuncular safe pair of hands. Currently, we are a middling Championship side that's flirting with the playoffs but never following through. Fans would generally prefer to stick with Uncle Tony and hope he stumbles on the magic formula to mount a promotion push than risk Venky's playing Russian Roulette. 

That seems to be the long and short of it, imo. 

That contingent is quickly becoming a larger percentage as the fanbase gets smaller and smaller....

[Mashed Potatoes]

29 minutes ago, Stuart said:

That contingent is quickly becoming a larger percentage as the fanbase gets smaller and smaller....

Source ?

[Mashed Potatoes]

9 hours ago, JHRover said:

I think he inserted the get out clause as he was doubtful from the start that Venkys would come up with the goods and so needed an insurance policy. 

By the time he'd sold Rhodes, had no money in January and it was becoming clear they weren't going to back him in the summer either he realised what he was up against and got out whilst his reputation was still relatively intact. And it worked for him because a few months later he got the Wolves job. 

I agree his stock has fallen massively and he's going to be finished if he doesn't get Ipswich back up quickly but I'll never believe he was to blame over Venkys. Not when we look at the rest of the shenanigans that have gone on here. Lambert had a decent reputation to protect and had the sense to ensure he could get out quickly if they didn't deliver. And like with pretty much everything else in their time here they didn't deliver. All talk, no action. Only difference is that all the other managers they've had have been grateful to be in the job and wouldn't have got any other Championship position, so they put up with being mucked around.

Which points to the likely route to the next person if they removed TM - I think it would be Phil Brown who is out of work now but worked in Pune for 12 to 14 months previously so possibly is known to Venkys.

[Mercer]

Mowbray in today's LT:

"We’re a long way from where I want us to be"

“We can all be disappointed but are we moving in the right direction? I hope so"

Think it gets worse by the day!

Three and a half years in situ and we are a "long way" from where he wants us to be.

Sounds like Mowbray himself doesn't know - "are we are moving in the right direction?"

So depressing in the middle of summer on a day when it's p1ssing down.

IMO, he simply has to go or the landscape will be unchanged, at best, in another three and a half years!

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Mercer

[JHRover]

5 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Which points to the likely route to the next person if they removed TM - I think it would be Phil Brown who is out of work now but worked in Pune for 12 to 14 months previously so possibly is known to Venkys.

Shudder.

[rigger]

16 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Mowbray in today's LT:

"We’re a long way from where I want us to be"

“We can all be disappointed but are we moving in the right direction? I hope so"

Think it get's worse by the day!

Three and a half years in situ and we are a "long way" from where he wants us to be.

Sounds like Mowbray himself doesn't know - "are we are moving in the right direction?"

So depressing in the middle of summer on a day when it's p1ssing down.

IMO, he simply has to go or the landscape will be unchanged, at best, in another three and a half years!

 

I would say: We are facing the right direction, but going backwards 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

We are standing still at best. When you stand still most of the other teams are moving forward. So one day you find yourself going out of the league through the back door. It's only a matter of time.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, rigger said:

I would say: We are facing the right direction, but going backwards 

Moonwalking Mowbray.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We are standing still at best. When you stand still most of the other teams are moving forward. So one day you find yourself going out of the league through the back door. It's only a matter of time.

Enough will go bust I think

[Gav]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Mowbray in today's LT:

"We’re a long way from where I want us to be"

“We can all be disappointed but are we moving in the right direction? I hope so"

Think it get's worse by the day!

Three and a half years in situ and we are a "long way" from where he wants us to be.

Sounds like Mowbray himself doesn't know - "are we are moving in the right direction?"

So depressing in the middle of summer on a day when it's p1ssing down.

IMO, he simply has to go or the landscape will be unchanged, at best, in another three and a half years!

 

Thats an honest assessment from an honest manger, he understands and feels the frustration the same as the rest of us do.

We haven't had honesty since those ******* took us over, its always been about self preservation from Agnew to Shaw, from Coyle to ***t to Singh. 

What he's doing here is calling himself and the players out, we're not good enough to make the play offs, thats been clear for 2 seasons and he has to improve us or leave.

But in the clamber to replace Mowbray, have a think about the possible replacements - Can you find 1 manager willing to come who can build a Championship promotion side with no money? Warnock was the man, we had him and then lost him, another catastrophic decision, but you'll not find many more out there.

The last decision before Mowbray and Waggot relegated us, be careful what you wish for.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Gav

[roversfan99]

18 minutes ago, Gav said:

Thats an honest assessment from an honest manger, he understands and feels the frustration the same as the rest of us do.

We haven't had honesty since those ******* took us over, its always been about self preservation from Agnew to Shaw, from Coyle to ***t to Singh. 

What he's doing here is calling himself and the players out, we're not good enough to make the play offs, thats been clear for 2 seasons and he has to improve us or leave.

But in the clamber to replace Mowbray, have a think about the possible replacements - Can you find 1 manager willing to come who can build a Championship promotion side with no money? Warnock was the man, we had him and then lost him, another catastrophic decision, but you'll not find many more out there.

The last decision before Mowbray and Waggot relegated us, be careful what you wish for.

The thing is no team will have much money this summer, as a club with minimal budget but one touch wood not going into administration (not for one second that it is anything to be thankful of!) we would not be any less attractive than a number of other clubs. Say if the Preston, Millwall etc jobs became available. 

That being said, the lack of resources will be another barrier in sacking the manager anyway.

The be careful what you wish for reason not to sack the manager is not a valid reason because this is stating what we would do. The owners wont be intetested enough to be considering letting Mowbray go either but no one in their right mind is saying to sack mowbray and bring in a Kean, Coyle, Berg or Appleton. If they did sack Mowbray and bring in a joker, that wouldnt be anyone getting what they asked for.

[PeteJD13]

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You mention being brave in the transfer market but ruthlessness has always been an achilles heel. Even recently hes dishing out temporary extensions for crap players like Samuel, Smallwood and Hart who are useless, useless and unused and useless and ineligible when we are amidst the economic tightenings of a pandemic. Last year he offered extensions to basically everyone and hes already given Bell an extension. We have to be especially efficient with our resources at this time and he isnt. Our squad is so imbalanced, 7 or 8 players are good enough and the rest arent.

I dont swallow this about us having lower half resources as if we are overachieving in the top half as that isnt a true reflection. Just looking at the wage budgets is flawed for numerous reasons:

- There are teams with far larger wage budgets because they have recently been relegated, so essentially a chunk of their wage budget is useless waste on Premier League wages, for example Stoke have Mame Diouf etc, Swansea have Routledge, Dyer etc. Its not as if its all an asset to the manager.

- Further proof of a limited correlation between league position is that there are teams with much less wage expenditure right up there and performing better than us. Brentford and Preston have much more efficient recruitment, Sheffield United got promoted spending less on wages and Millwall were much higher and this season are on the same points.

- Our wage budget I think will have gone up proportionally more than most with the additions of Johnson, Gallagher, Downing, Holtby, Adarabioyo, Cunningham and Walton. We will only know for sure when the next accounts are published.

- A big way in which Mowbray has been lucky is the net spend available to him of over 10m since we came up. Not many teams can boast that but it has not been spent well.

- No sales have been forced to halt our progress. Raya was the only sale and Mowbray was clearly happy to cut ties with a player he publically criticised and dropped for the inadequate sub keeper he signed. 

I am not Mowbray out consistently because I am aware that even if we could and had interested and logical owners, it wouldnt be an easy decision. Hes borderline either way. I just look at our squad and its consistent imbalances and I dont see Mowbray getting us into that top 6 before the promising core is broken up and we start all over. I feel its important to point out that in terms of resources he has plenty but it has not been used very efficiently.

to be fair i'll take that point with regards to the lack of ruthlessness, do preston have more efficient recruitment than us? wheels have fallen off there big time and the likes of Stockley and Sinclair have hardly pulled up any trees either. For every sheff united there is another 21 teams that haven't gone up they have a really top manager no shame in that.

With the resources we have and the FFP balancing act the club has with fans staying away a new manager would probably want to rip the squad up and start again or at least bring some of there own players in, the names mentioned are just as hit and miss as Mowbray. We are 10th I don't know what people expect with our squad wage bill and resources, even if wage spend has gone up its not up there with the top 10 in the league. 

[PeteJD13]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

The thing is no team will have much money this summer, as a club with minimal budget but one touch wood not going into administration (not for one second that it is anything to be thankful of!) we would not be any less attractive than a number of other clubs. Say if the Preston, Millwall etc jobs became available. 

That being said, the lack of resources will be another barrier in sacking the manager anyway.

The be careful what you wish for reason not to sack the manager is not a valid reason because this is stating what we would do. The owners wont be intetested enough to be considering letting Mowbray go either but no one in their right mind is saying to sack mowbray and bring in a Kean, Coyle, Berg or Appleton. If they did sack Mowbray and bring in a joker, that wouldnt be anyone getting what they asked for.

They would bring in someone from HSH thats how it works with 13k average gate we are always going to struggle to have a budget to properly push for the top 6

[Mercer]

38 minutes ago, Gav said:

Thats an honest assessment from an honest manger, he understands and feels the frustration the same as the rest of us do.

We haven't had honesty since those ******* took us over, its always been about self preservation from Agnew to Shaw, from Coyle to ***t to Singh. 

What he's doing here is calling himself and the players out, we're not good enough to make the play offs, thats been clear for 2 seasons and he has to improve us or leave.

But in the clamber to replace Mowbray, have a think about the possible replacements - Can you find 1 manager willing to come who can build a Championship promotion side with no money? Warnock was the man, we had him and then lost him, another catastrophic decision, but you'll not find many more out there.

The last decision before Mowbray and Waggot relegated us, be careful what you wish for.

IMO, doing nothing and treading water, at best, is not an option.

Tennyson was right: "Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all."

I think we need to replace Mowbray.  A risk yes, all managerial appointments are a risk but we simply can't remain on the road to nowhere.

 

[Sparks Rover]

58 minutes ago, Gav said:

Thats an honest assessment from an honest manger, he understands and feels the frustration the same as the rest of us do.

We haven't had honesty since those ******* took us over, its always been about self preservation from Agnew to Shaw, from Coyle to ***t to Singh. 

What he's doing here is calling himself and the players out, we're not good enough to make the play offs, thats been clear for 2 seasons and he has to improve us or leave.

But in the clamber to replace Mowbray, have a think about the possible replacements - Can you find 1 manager willing to come who can build a Championship promotion side with no money? Warnock was the man, we had him and then lost him, another catastrophic decision, but you'll not find many more out there.

The last decision before Mowbray and Waggot relegated us, be careful what you wish for.

If Mowbray played the best team possible in every game, everyone in the correct position and no room for deadwood like bennett, Del, Gallagher.....I think we would be at least 10 points better off.  This squad can get promoted with the right manager.

He has to go, we need to progress quickly.

[Sparks Rover]

2 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Which points to the likely route to the next person if they removed TM - I think it would be Phil Brown who is out of work now but worked in Pune for 12 to 14 months previously so possibly is known to Venkys.

If he brings his mate with him, happy days.

Big Sam would get our squad up as it is. Venkys sort it out, grovel and give him 5m bonus to get us up next season 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Sparks Rover

[arbitro]

I read Mowbrays latest comments and think he is disappointed that we just haven't kicked on this season and that individually certain players who he had high hopes for have flopped. Clearly he needs to look at himself and his staff if he is apportioning blame as team selection and tactics have placed limitations on some individuals. I also think the penny has dropped that he has taken us as far as he can and without a transfer window of big change we will continue to be mid table or below. 

This to me is a huge time coming up and I honestly think Mowbray has lost some belief in himself and his p!ayers.