Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Amo]

It all comes down to one all-important question: What are Venky's still doing here?

You could argue that Venky's have backed him more than most, but he was also allowed to recommend one of his mates for CEO, and has created a nice little cocoon for himself.

I can't see that happening at most clubs.

[K-Hod]

A couple of things don’t sit right with me.

Whilst I fundamentally agree that Venky’s are more than capable of appointing someone worse, I don’t think it’s a good idea to just plod along with Mowbray and hope for the best. No manager should be ‘unsackable’, as we all know! What are we measuring success against? Surely if he doesn’t meet his targets, then he should be relieved of his duties?

Any considerations re FFP or having no money to spend can largely be placed at the manager’s door, in my view. 
How can anyone have the gall to complain about money, when they’ve spent £12 Million on two strikers that haven’t delivered enough?

Not to mention short term fixes (loans) at the back and in goal. ‘Defenders are coming’ *
*=only valid for twelve months....

 

[Blue blood]

18 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

If Mowbray played the best team possible in every game, everyone in the correct position and no room for deadwood like bennett, Del, Gallagher.....I think we would be at least 10 points better off.  This squad can get promoted with the right manager.

He has to go, we need to progress quickly.

Even deadwood like Gally and Bennett could contribute if they were played in the correct positions and used correctly. Sure neither should be starting but Bennett would be a great impact sub for shoring up games with his energy. A half decent manager might get Gally to put himself about and be a pain for defenders. And if played centrally with a bit of coaching in the physical side of the game, who knows, he might even get a few goals. 

But yeah, players not out of position, a system everyone knows, a regular and best first 11 with everyone knowing their role. All of this would easily see us as you say 10 points better off. 

And this is what irritates me. The needless nature of the way TM hampers the team and makes things harder for himself. It's beyond odd. 

[Leonard Venkhater]

22 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I read Mowbrays latest comments and think he is disappointed that we just haven't kicked on this season and that individually certain players who he had high hopes for have flopped. Clearly he needs to look at himself and his staff if he is apportioning blame as team selection and tactics have placed limitations on some individuals. I also think the penny has dropped that he has taken us as far as he can and without a transfer window of big change we will continue to be mid table or below. 

This to me is a huge time coming up and I honestly think Mowbray has lost some belief in himself and his p!ayers.

Absolutely. This is my sense as well. He took a similar tone several months ago about the time of the home fixture against Barnsley.

I think he knows he is losing the fans now because there is so little belief in any method or pattern of play.

After 3 years there are still too many no-shows with square pegs in round holes/polished turds( choose your own description!) 

Any notion of a long term, slow build project is hardly supported by the number of replacements that are required this summer and in so many key positions.

Despite loyal fans' fervent hopes and willingness to herald any flashes of improvement in Brereton and Gallagher, they are both down there with O'Mara, Chris Brown and our whole back catalogue of shit strikers.

If this were a normal club, we would agree It needs a catalyst and a new broom (Gordon Lee/Souness/Mackay)....but you know the rest....

Edited July 3, 2020 by Leonard Venkhater

[47er]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Thats an honest assessment from an honest manger, he understands and feels the frustration the same as the rest of us do.



I don't think he understands or admits that he's causing it to a great extent though.

[Leonard Venkhater]

3 hours ago, philipl said:

A good manager would be arguing the toss on Ben's red card. Mowbray has just hung him out to dry.

Rightly so. Petulant behaviour!

[Leonard Venkhater]

12 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I'm more inclined to think that it was him that came here under false pretences, inserting the get out clause in his contract knowing full well he wouldn't be here beyond that unless things clicked instantly into place.

He's done nothing whatsoever since to suggest we missed out either.

My view too.

I feel embarrassed at the way so many of us embraced Lambert like he was the new Messiah. Lambert played us big time.

 

[Mattyblue]

To be fair, a lot of fans (me included) saw the arrival of Lambert as a sign of a club behaving professionally again. He was appointed quickly with a highly regarded coach like Irvine alongside.

He did still have a decent reputation at the time and it looked like a fresh start after years of highly dubious appointments, a revolving door and then a promotion within of Bowyer and his staff done on the cheap.

It didn’t work out, and neither did the ‘new dawn’ last with Coyle next to rock up.
 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Leonard Venkhater]

14 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

If that is the case though surely Mowbray has essentially strengthened his own position by spending so much prior and not really strengthening the squad since promotion, leaving a very imbalanced squad. He doesnt have money now mainly because of the pandemic but he has had money and has possibly wasted the chance to get much closer. We have a very competitve wage budget considering a number of those spending more (Stoke, Swansea, Cardiff, Huddersfield) are not necessarily at an advantage, they are recently relegated clubs full of high earners who arent contributing that they cant shift. Theres no way Mowbray could complain at what he has had to work with. At least 10m net spend post promotion, no key players that he wanted to keep have been sold and hes been able to add plenty of frees who wont have come cheap. 

The likes of Pulis and McCarthy have history for getting the best out of what they have but that wouldnt have to be the only route. Other experienced managers, a younger forward thinking manager from lower down (Ainsworth etc) or a foreign manager.(like Forest, Brentford etc have done)

It all doesnt matter as we couldnt afford to sack Mowbray and he is safe with Waggott having his back.

Pulis is from the same cesspit stable, as Kean and Coyle...Pulis spoke out for his mate, Keano, at the time like a good company man.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Leonard Venkhater

[Angry_Pirate]

Mowbray back to chatting absolute shite again I see. 

Playoffs are gone, I hope we stuff Leeds tomorrow and then we can lose the other 5 for all I care and see if we can get the change we desperately need.

[unleaded]

Just same old spin & crap from TM .. Just waffle to keep his job ... 

Everybody knows this Team and the management team are on easy street ..

The LT Photo the other day of Mowbray sat on his ass 0n the wall with his coaching staff in the dug out summed it all up ...

Barnsley 2 Blackburn 0 

 

[Amo]

12 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I'm more inclined to think that it was him that came here under false pretences, inserting the get out clause in his contract knowing full well he wouldn't be here beyond that unless things clicked instantly into place.

Sounds like a sensible contingency when joining a basket-case like Venky's FC.

[Stonesrick]

32 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Absolutely. This is my sense as well. He took a similar tone several months ago about the time of the home fixture against Barnsley.

I think he knows he is losing the fans now because there is so little belief in any method or pattern of play.

After 3 years there are still too many no-shows with square pegs in round holes/polished turds( choose your own description!) 

Any notion of a long term, slow build project is hardly supported by the number of replacements that are required this summer and in so many key positions.

Despite loyal fans' fervent hopes and willingness to herald any flashes of improvement in Brereton and Gallagher, they are both down there with O'Mara, Chris Brown and our whole back catalogue of shit strikers.

If this were a normal club, we would agree It needs a catalyst and a new broom (Gordon Lee/Souness/Mackay)....but you know the rest....

You are right LV, John O'Mara was a poor centre-forward. Yet, he scored 10 goals in 35 appearances for us.

I can't ever see either Brereton and Gallagher scoring 10 between them in a season as things stand.

[Blue blood]

18 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

My view too.

I feel embarrassed at the way so many of us embraced Lambert like he was the new Messiah. Lambert played us big time.

 

If it's any consolation most managers and teams he has faced since have played him big time too. 

Agree I was overly optimistic and excited by the appointment. Wonder how much of that was due to Venkys taking a sledgehammer to my expectations. 

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, Blue blood said:

If it's any consolation most managers and teams he has faced since have played him big time too. 

Agree I was overly optimistic and excited by the appointment. Wonder how much of that was due to Venkys taking a sledgehammer to my expectations. 

Oh, so was I...hence, my embarrassment!

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 minutes ago, Stonesrick said:

You are right LV, John O'Mara was a poor centre-forward. Yet, he scored 10 goals in 35 appearances for us.

I can't ever see either Brereton and Gallagher scoring 10 between them in a season as things stand.

Good point.

And I remember grabbing hold of any positive contribution he made, hoping it was going to turn out well in the end!

One Saturday night in The Queens/ Vulcan after a particularly dismal performance, we even started a club-"The John O'Mara Appreciation Society"...

[tomphil]

15 minutes ago, Amo said:

Sounds like a sensible contingency when joining a basket-case like Venky's FC.

He was promised the Rhodes money and as much again on top i think that's why he did a lot of whinging. The plan he pitched to them would have cost 20 million but apparently that's what they promised him.

I don't think he's anything special but we don't know what he'd have done with real backing. In the end though he did the right thing by all parties so he has my respect for that. 

[LDRover]

26 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Pulis is from the same cesspit stable, as Kean and Coyle...Pulis spoke out for his mate, Keano, at the time like a good company man.

Yep, fuck him, same with Moyes and the rest of the shithouses who crawled out of the woodwork. What happened in that darkest of dark times should NEVER be forgotten.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, PeteJD13 said:

to be fair i'll take that point with regards to the lack of ruthlessness, do preston have more efficient recruitment than us? wheels have fallen off there big time and the likes of Stockley and Sinclair have hardly pulled up any trees either. For every sheff united there is another 21 teams that haven't gone up they have a really top manager no shame in that.

With the resources we have and the FFP balancing act the club has with fans staying away a new manager would probably want to rip the squad up and start again or at least bring some of there own players in, the names mentioned are just as hit and miss as Mowbray. We are 10th I don't know what people expect with our squad wage bill and resources, even if wage spend has gone up its not up there with the top 10 in the league. 

 

1 hour ago, PeteJD13 said:

They would bring in someone from HSH thats how it works with 13k average gate we are always going to struggle to have a budget to properly push for the top 6

Another point to add to the healthy net spend, the recent major additions to the wage bill, the lack of considerable liabilities on huge wages from Premier League seasons gone by and the lack of enforced sales is the quality of the academy that gives us a head start over most at our level. I am not saying that Mowbray has not impacted positively on their development as of course they have but to have players like Nyambe, Lenihan and Travis all as key players slightly reduces the scale of the recruitment job required, compare say to Preston, they dont even have an Under 23 team!

All of these reasons are why I refuse to accept the narrative that any manager is severely restricted by the resources available to them, I have given numerous factors as to why Rovers manager has plenty to work with and really be competitive. Mowbray of course is competitive but I just feel like there is a glass ceiling he will be unable to break through, im not staunchly against him continuing but the fact that we are even discussing limited resources and he has spent 12m on 2 players who havent at all contributed and of course there has been undeniable scope to be doing better.

Regarding Preston, I agree that no teams recruitment is perfect but if a new manager came into our club for example, I think it would be far more difficult not in terms of the quality players as they are similar but in terms of shaping a squad in a balanced way. Mowbray or another manager has now Johnson, Mulgrew and Bennett on huge wages well past their best, 2 useless strikers who will be nigh on impossible to shift, no professional goalkeepers under contract and no effective wide men under contract. Stockley for example was a cheap buy from the lower leagues who is an effective option (and has been better for them than our 12m strikers) from the bench and ultimately could be moved on fairly easily. Sinclair is a little bit removed from the norm and I presume their biggest earner but he would walk into our side and has a couple of goals from wide. Their squad is much more balanced both positionally and financially and they are effective at signing cheap players either from England or Ireland. 

Take on your point about the restriction that any new appointment would likely be agency driven rather than competence driven. Also there are certain other restrictions that will hinder any manager we have until changed, for example their disinterest leading to decisions on budgets etc being delayed leaving us behind the rest.

[Angry_Pirate]

6 minutes ago, tomphil said:

He was promised the Rhodes money and as much again on top i think that's why he did a lot of whinging. The plan he pitched to them would have cost 20 million but apparently that's what they promised him.

I don't think he's anything special but we don't know what he'd have done with real backing. In the end though he did the right thing by all parties so he has my respect for that. 

Over the years, I've spoken to a lot of people who work/worked at Rovers, and Paul Lambert was easily the most detested and disliked manager by the staff we've ever* had, easily.

Not to mention his "style" football rivalled paint drying for riveting enjoyment.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Angry_Pirate

[Mattyblue]

I think he worked out fairly quickly he wouldn’t be stopping. Never moved out of his hotel (Stanley House) for a start...

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

I think he worked out fairly quickly he wouldn’t be stopping. Never moved out of his hotel (Stanley House) for a start...

Nothing but the best eh?..........

I'd have stuck him in the Hungry Horse (Fernhurst) next to the ground!

[oldjamfan1]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

I read Mowbrays latest comments and think he is disappointed that we just haven't kicked on this season and that individually certain players who he had high hopes for have flopped. Clearly he needs to look at himself and his staff if he is apportioning blame as team selection and tactics have placed limitations on some individuals. I also think the penny has dropped that he has taken us as far as he can and without a transfer window of big change we will continue to be mid table or below. 

This to me is a huge time coming up and I honestly think Mowbray has lost some belief in himself and his p!ayers.

That's exactly how I saw it too Tony. I think he will retire at the end of the season.

[tomphil]

10 minutes ago, Angry_Pirate said:

Over the years, I've spoken to a lot of people who work/worked at Rovers, and Paul Lambert was easily the most detested and disliked manager by the staff we've ever* had, easily.

Not to mention his "style" football rivalled paint drying for riveting enjoyment.

And in recent times that covers the likes of Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer, Coyle and now TM.

Most with a nice guy persona and non have really driven us forwards. Sorry but i couldn't care less what staff etc think of a manager he's there to do a job with the first team not pass the time of day with everybody. Lambert comes across as a bit of a twat and his style was pragmatic but show me a nice guy and i'll show you losers or stability at best.  Show me an arrogant angry arsehole and often you'll find a very driven winner.

Edited July 3, 2020 by tomphil

[PeteJD13]

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Another point to add to the healthy net spend, the recent major additions to the wage bill, the lack of considerable liabilities on huge wages from Premier League seasons gone by and the lack of enforced sales is the quality of the academy that gives us a head start over most at our level. I am not saying that Mowbray has not impacted positively on their development as of course they have but to have players like Nyambe, Lenihan and Travis all as key players slightly reduces the scale of the recruitment job required, compare say to Preston, they dont even have an Under 23 team!

All of these reasons are why I refuse to accept the narrative that any manager is severely restricted by the resources available to them, I have given numerous factors as to why Rovers manager has plenty to work with and really be competitive. Mowbray of course is competitive but I just feel like there is a glass ceiling he will be unable to break through, im not staunchly against him continuing but the fact that we are even discussing limited resources and he has spent 12m on 2 players who havent at all contributed and of course there has been undeniable scope to be doing better.

Regarding Preston, I agree that no teams recruitment is perfect but if a new manager came into our club for example, I think it would be far more difficult not in terms of the quality players as they are similar but in terms of shaping a squad in a balanced way. Mowbray or another manager has now Johnson, Mulgrew and Bennett on huge wages well past their best, 2 useless strikers who will be nigh on impossible to shift, no professional goalkeepers under contract and no effective wide men under contract. Stockley for example was a cheap buy from the lower leagues who is an effective option (and has been better for them than our 12m strikers) from the bench and ultimately could be moved on fairly easily. Sinclair is a little bit removed from the norm and I presume their biggest earner but he would walk into our side and has a couple of goals from wide. Their squad is much more balanced both positionally and financially and they are effective at signing cheap players either from England or Ireland. 

Take on your point about the restriction that any new appointment would likely be agency driven rather than competence driven. Also there are certain other restrictions that will hinder any manager we have until changed, for example their disinterest leading to decisions on budgets etc being delayed leaving us behind the rest.

I wouldn't say TM is severely restricted my point is more with the squad we have i don't think we are under achieving. PNE squad on paper you say is more balanced and it is but playing devils advocate the aren't doing any better than we are. I think what is frustrating for me and where i do agree with you on TM Wigan and Barnsley are indicative of how we perform get close to the play offs then baffling team selection and a loss. Where i do give TM benefit of the doubt is rebuilding the club behind the scenes with data analysis revamping the scouting ( lets see if that bares fruit ). Until we have owners that are budget pro active eg start targeting summer signings in January getting them lined up knowing what money you have i don't see McCarthy Pulis and all the other has been managers mentioned doing any  better.