Tony Mowbray Discussion

[darrenrover]

5 minutes ago, Scotland1 said:

Stuart Harvey who is he exactly?

Our 'head of player recruitment' and has been since Eric Kinder rescued him from the Dingles 3 years ago, allegedly before he got potted.

[darrenrover]

Just now, simongarnerisgod said:

is stuart harvey the man responsible for brereton then???i don`t believe any statement of intent that comes out of ewood anymore,like you said,it more than likely does`nt exist,the one time excellent spurs manager keith burkenshaw  said about his departure from the club due to boardroom interference" there used to be a football club here you know" very much relevant to our situation here,only difference is that mowbray won`t resign cos he`s part of the ******* problem

Dunno, with reference to Brereton. He did have the job then though, so you'd guess was part of the process.

[chaddyrovers]

Stuart Harvey is our head of recruitment at Rovers. Our Chief European scout is Bruno Reis. 

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/tony-mowbray-transfer-plans-how-18474116

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

‘We’d have got top 6 if one of our players wasn’t injured’. Total conjecture that nobody could ever prove.

We weren’t close with Dack, we ain’t close now. There’s a chance we could finish 10 points away. We will only slightly improve on last years middling side’s points return (if we do at all).

Last season’s side wasn’t a promotion team, the points tally says this one isn’t either, and it is sheer delusion to think otherwise.

The minute Dack was injured it was patently obvious he was not going to kick another ball this. Why wasn't he replaced if only with a loan player ?

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

Dunno, with reference to Brereton. He did have the job then though, so you'd guess was part of the process.

Didnt someone post on here that Brereton was never scouted

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

1. We have improved in my opinion. Plus we have been without Dack for half a season and still reach the same points now with 2 games to go. Put Dack in this team we get top 6 In my opinion. If you took Grabban out of that Forest team they wouldn't be top 6 or WBA if they didn't have Pereira, or Fulham with Mitrovic.   Its enough for me. Might be different for other posters. 

2. The 1st half yesterday were awful. Too many long balls, no movement or quick tempo. Second half we were passing tempo wise and passing to feet. Rothwell had an impact. We moved to this boxed midfield with 2 strikers looking for space between their 3 man centre backs. Its didn't work. Am I concern? no

3. Its have taken time, hiring staff and money to bring this European Scouting Network that Mowbray wants. Its yourself who wants a replace Mowbray. So would you replacement want to use a European Scouting Network tho? That's a question for you. With the time and money Rovers have invested in bring this system into place surely this would be one of key questions you would asked of any managerial interview process? 

4. Loan signings are good thing at this level like WBA loan of Pereira or Leeds loan of Ben White. We aren't in a worst position then last summer but the same. Gallagher may come good next season or he may not. We have be over this Raya situation to death since last summer. Do we need to go over this again? 

5. I felt Mowbray should have used the money more better to sign players we need not just on one player. Jansson's agent was in talks with Brentford very quickly after he was told he  could leave Leeds. But we can suggest player names after names but we have no idea of the cost of the overall wages, fees involved and other factors. You mention no money? well we don't know what the owners will do. We will find out in the coming weeks. Mowbray has made a number of good signings over his tenure whether it Armstrong(1.8 million) and Dack(750k) or loan signings like Antonsson, Reed, Adarabioyo or free signings like Smallwood(Did a good job for us in league 1), Downing. Plus bringing through Lewis Travis to now becoming a key player for our club after watching him development from Under 18's football. With Buckley and Rankin Costello coming through and will be good players for this club next season and beyond. Davenport looks a good player from his appearances so far. Hopefully he develops into a good player for us in the future. 

6. Like I said in Point 1 if we had Dack I feel we would top 6 IMO. People will say Injuries happen but other teams had their key player out with Injury would have top 6 probably not. 

1. We lost Dack before Xmas and knew full well he was out for the rest of the season at the very least. Do you really think that if any of those other clubs had lost their talisman and main attacking threat at that early stage that they wouldn't have used the January window to replace him or at least tried damn hard to? We sat back and did nothing so don't complain about his absence. It was unfortunate but we had the chance to address it and refused to do so. Imagine if we had been 2nd or 3rd when he got injured and we had done nothing. It could easily have cost us automatic promotion. You have to add from positions of strength and go for it, not just play the victim, shrug shoulders and go again next year.

2. Not interested in long balls, tempo or passing statistics. Meaningless just like possession figures. Don't give away cheap soft goals and take your chances when they come. We aren't good at either because we've not addressed those positions properly. We were, in my opinion, pretty awful and very ineffective most of the night. Millwall defended expertly and allowed us to aimlessly pass the ball around with no penetration or goal threat. A familiar story.

3. So we never sack Mowbray because the scouting network requires his continuing presence? We have to rip it up and start again if someone new takes over? Are we a bunch of amateurs here or what? Whilst improvements and investments are welcome there is no evidence whatsoever beside Mowbray's claims that it is actually delivering anything and we've already got the new excuses lined up for this summer.

4. To my knowledge no side assembled the spine of their squad using loans. We are in a worse position because at the end of last season we had Raya under contract and hadn't used up another £5 million on Gallagher. We also have since used up another year without one of our own players bedding into Central defence alongside Lenihan and will have half a defence to rebuild. 

[darrenrover]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Didnt someone post on here that Brereton was never scouted

Possibly but you'd guess that your head of recruitment would be involved in recruitment.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, darrenrover said:

Possibly but you'd guess that your head of recruitment would be involved in recruitment.

Whoever was responsible for that signing should be back watching the under 11's.

[darrenrover]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Whoever was responsible for that signing should be back watching the under 11's.

Most under 11's can do the basics Tyrone and some have great technical ability..............

[LDRover]

I don't know about all you guys but I cannot wait for this European scouting network to bear fruit. We'll be unstoppable I tell thee.

[chaddyrovers]

19 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

Possibly but you'd guess that your head of recruitment would be involved in recruitment.

Brereton was only made available for transfer 2 or 3 days left of window If I remember correctly. Didnt we move for Luke Freeman before him. 

[Blue blood]

Personally think that was one of @chaddyrovers best posts. Until the last point about we don't know who we would have signed it was all based on reasons and well articulated. I disagree with a fair number of the points but appreciate reason, rational and facts as oppose to we don't know what would happen arguments. 

To suggest the loss of Dack hasn't had a huge effect is nonsense imo. Would it be enough to get us top 6? I'm not convinced as we weren't top 6 with him in the side. But given he is such a key player I'm confident we would likely be a bit closer/doing a bit better. I think the main thing for me from this is that it doesn't absolve TM as blame as there was no effort to replace a key player who was evidently out for a long time. To me that shows utter negligence, and whilst a like for like replacement would have been difficult, to not take any measures to counteract his loss is criminal. He could have thought ok we have lost Dack's goals so we need to conceed less and get a defender (or actual keeper in) or get a striker with a few more goals in them, buy or loan of budget is low - plenty of possible solutions to the absence of Dack. He is absolutely influential, not addressing his loss has been a big mistake. 

I think the arguments focusing in on the Millwall game is a bit of a red herring as there have been many occasions where the formation and the roles players have been playing have been real head scratchers. Personally the issue of playing favourites and the nadir of the lot dropping Nayambe for playing lots of football screams out that happiness of the squad is put before winning and is a sackable offence in and of itself. 

The European scouting network will take time to establish and I'm not sure when it was set up. If it was on our return to the championship it is unreasonable to expect any fruit from it last season, and an argument could be made for last summer depending on how long it took to establish (I have no idea on this!) 4 windows however does seem a tad alarming and there is a lot of pressure for it to work now. Whatever the length of time it takes to establish it cant be used as a positive for TM until it actually produces something! 

The loan situation and transfers in the summer in general is a huge problem because there is so much to do! We knew Mulgrew and Graham had limited shelf life in League 1 due to age and yet 2 years on neither have been replaced effectively. Admittedly not for want of trying but 12 million on we are no nearer to a replacement which is criminal. Factor in we need 3 key elements of our defence replacing  - an area of the team where consistency and continuity are even more crucial - and the age of Johnson and Downing. That's 7 players needing replacing before standing still. (The Mulgrew situation taught us something no matter how poor is better than notjing.) Even a slight less emphasis on loans would make this summer's task much easier. Given the age of the squad having so much emphasis on loans was a mistake. No issues with them being the missing pieces of the jigsaw, in fact they clearly are, but they shouldn't make up so much of the picture when half the pieces also need replacing due to age. 

There's also no doubt TM has made some great signings as listed by Chaddy BUT the issue is there's just as many clangers and they tend to be more costly. In the transfer review thread I gave him a 50:50 success rate on signings but when half of them are clangers that ultimately means half the squad are duds. And when the overall longevity of the squad is considered you can only wince at the problems we have. Yes we have some great players but it is totally undermined by the clangers we have in the team and unbalanced squad. Tosin is brilliant but it is undone by Walton's howlers. Armstrong is on fire but too many resources are lost in Ben and Gally who also won't contribute goals. One step forward, one step back. 

The biggest defence of TM is that he isn't a complete duffer as evidenced by promotion, some decent signings and our mid table finishes. In any other club that's no reason to keep a manager on whatsoever. However at the circus that is Rovers in the thrall of a substandard agency it is a very pressing and relevant factor. Their past record shows they couldn't appoint a good manager if they tried and are beholden to an agency so aren't really trying. Such circumstances make TM considerably more attractive as a proposition. Sadly though it doesn't make him a good manager. 

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Blue blood

[Sparks Rover]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Brereton was only made available for transfer 2 or 3 days left of window If I remember correctly. Didnt we move for Luke Freeman before him. 

If true that is strange.  Totally different players.  Points towards total chaos in Mowbray's management of the squad and what it requires.  We don't even need freeman, we need other areas sorting.  The guy has no idea and I cannot for the life of me understand your continued blind loyalty.

[darrenrover]

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Brereton was only made available for transfer 2 or 3 days left of window If I remember correctly. Didnt we move for Luke Freeman before him. 

Possibly chaddy, you know better than me.

[darrenrover]

How hard is it to set up a basic European Scouting network, if you have contacts and network well? It's not bloody rocket science! If it were to be 'agent less', that would be something!

 

[RoversClitheroe]

12 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

1. We have improved in my opinion. Plus we have been without Dack for half a season and still reach the same points now with 2 games to go. Put Dack in this team we get top 6 In my opinion. If you took Grabban out of that Forest team they wouldn't be top 6 or WBA if they didn't have Pereira, or Fulham with Mitrovic.   Its enough for me. Might be different for other posters. 

2. The 1st half yesterday were awful. Too many long balls, no movement or quick tempo. Second half we were passing tempo wise and passing to feet. Rothwell had an impact. We moved to this boxed midfield with 2 strikers looking for space between their 3 man centre backs. Its didn't work. Am I concern? no

3. Its have taken time, hiring staff and money to bring this European Scouting Network that Mowbray wants. Its yourself who wants a replace Mowbray. So would you replacement want to use a European Scouting Network tho? That's a question for you. With the time and money Rovers have invested in bring this system into place surely this would be one of key questions you would asked of any managerial interview process? 

4. Loan signings are good thing at this level like WBA loan of Pereira or Leeds loan of Ben White. We aren't in a worst position then last summer but the same. Gallagher may come good next season or he may not. We have be over this Raya situation to death since last summer. Do we need to go over this again? 

5. I felt Mowbray should have used the money more better to sign players we need not just on one player. Jansson's agent was in talks with Brentford very quickly after he was told he  could leave Leeds. But we can suggest player names after names but we have no idea of the cost of the overall wages, fees involved and other factors. You mention no money? well we don't know what the owners will do. We will find out in the coming weeks. Mowbray has made a number of good signings over his tenure whether it Armstrong(1.8 million) and Dack(750k) or loan signings like Antonsson, Reed, Adarabioyo or free signings like Smallwood(Did a good job for us in league 1), Downing. Plus bringing through Lewis Travis to now becoming a key player for our club after watching him development from Under 18's football. With Buckley and Rankin Costello coming through and will be good players for this club next season and beyond. Davenport looks a good player from his appearances so far. Hopefully he develops into a good player for us in the future. 

6. Like I said in Point 1 if we had Dack I feel we would top 6 IMO. People will say Injuries happen but other teams had their key player out with Injury would have top 6 probably not. 

Sorry Chaddy, usually I defend you but I cannot agree with a single point and I'll go through why.

1. Yes we've been without Dack for half the season but we spent £12 million pound on attacking options. So the Dack excuse is completely void.

2. Neat passes? All of the passes were between Tosin and Lenihan? We looked like a team that were winning 1-0. The tempo was poor throughout and we did not look like scoring as all of the passes were along the back.

3. Mowbray says a lot of things. There is zero evidence that we are even looking at European players? We signed Holtby but he was training with us the whole summer before.

4. Well yes we are in a worse position. We had one of the best keepers in the league, and now we go into this summer with no keeper. 

5. Yes he's made good signings in Dack and Armstrong. Every other signing thats been permanent has been absolutely shambolic. Smallwood and Mulgrew getting extra tasty contract and then NEVER playing is sackable in itself.

6. Again we spent £12m on two big attacking options. I think if any other championship club spent this amount of money they'd be premier League class. But Mowbray isn't good enough to spend the big money, he's wasted it and now we have no money for the summer.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, RoversClitheroe said:

. Mowbray says a lot of things. There is zero evidence that we are even looking at European players? 

So why have got Chief European Scout in Bruno Reis and from articles in local journalists saying we are scouting players in different countries. 

We have been linked to oversee players

[47er]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We have been linked to oversee players

We've been linked to 6th place as well so don't get your hopes up.

[Amo]

This European Scouting system is the Emperor's new clothes.

[RoversClitheroe]

18 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

So why have got Chief European Scout in Bruno Reis and from articles in local journalists saying we are scouting players in different countries. 

We have been linked to oversee players

That's all you took away from my massive post?!

Edited July 16, 2020 by RoversClitheroe

[Mattyblue]

Bloody hell Chaddy, players are ‘linked’ through agents leaking stories to the Nixon’s of this world, nothing to do with Stuart Harvey’s spreadsheets...

[LDRover]

Hope this European scouting network is looking at up and coming managers.

[roversfan99]

I do wonder if Mowbray is being tactical with his comments in the press, again saying that our clueless owners still have given him no indication on the budget.

As if to put the blame slowly back onto them?

Doesnt feel like next season is one to be excited about, feels like groundhog day.

[Mercer]

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I do wonder if Mowbray is being tactical with his comments in the press, again saying that our clueless owners still have given him no indication on the budget.

As if to put the blame slowly back onto them?

Doesnt feel like next season is one to be excited about, feels like groundhog day.

Feels to me like he's already laying the ground for a season of absolute mediocrity at best!

Get those excuses in early!

[Dreams of 1995]

TM doesn't need to do anything to put the blame back onto the owners.

If there's a fan out there that blames Mowbray for our delayed budgets / going into the summer unknown then as a collective we should tell them to take a look back at the last decade. This is a Venky problem, always has been and always will be. 

Mercer, give it a rest, not everything is the blokes fault. You are on overdrive lately. We've not had a budget on time since they came, it's hardly an excuse, it's the truth.