Tony Mowbray Discussion

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

I’ve seen Venky’s described as “our guardian angels” today. I’m not even making that up.

Guarding yes, angels no.  Question is just what and why are they guarding ?

If they'll loved the club that much to lose 10 million a year through it's books they wouldn't keep throwing it to the wolves.  The audit they did a couple of years ago needs doing again right about now.  One of the firms doing it needs to be  a proper independent football advisory firm to analyse what's going of on the training ground, dressing room and dugout.

Then deduce if it really is the best way to push the club forwards. But then again do they really want to or have they now just reached comfortable status with it like their club employees ?

[CheshireRover]

Genuine curiousness...

 

If the worst should happen to the Venky family. Who would then take control of the club? A trust like the Walker Trust?

[OldEwoodBlue]

28 minutes ago, CheshireRover said:

Genuine curiousness...

 

If the worst should happen to the Venky family. Who would then take control of the club? A trust like the Walker Trust?

we would go into admin

write off the debt

12 point deduction

sold to one of the many interested parties.... waiting patiently by the river...

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, JHRover said:

I didn't ask who might buy us. I asked if you agreed that we need new owners.

Newcastle are about to be bought and it is likely Wigan will be taken over soon.

Budget decisions will be made within the next week? Do you know something Mowbray doesn't? To me he sounds just about as fed up as he ever has and who can blame him working in the dark for disinterested idiots.

Its an important part of your question, is who and why would they been interested in buying Rovers? how would they run the club and who would they appoint as CEO? I am would be very sceptical of any new possible owners. That's isn't to say I want Venkys to remain as owners but I wouldn't be jumping for joy if they sold the club to any new owners until we see what their new owners did. 

Yes Newcastle have being bought for months now. Their takeover might happen or not. Who knows. We will see how good or bad they are as owners if they buy the club. 

Yes Wigan have people interested. I think I read they had over 25 offers of interest of buying but their administrators did say probably only 4 or 5 interested parties would be serious and able to fund the club long term. So Lets wait and see who buy the club and runs the club.  

I have listened Mowbray on BBC Radio Lancs and he doesn't sounded fed up but very realistic with the current economic situation in the world. 

6 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

One thing we should never do is accept it Chaddy.

We may grin and bear it for now but we'll never accept them or the model they use to run this club.

The sooner they realise it the better too. They need to cut their losses, sell up and return our club back to us.

I posted it many years ago and I'll say it again here - I would sacrifice our league position for getting rid of them if I had to, but I hope it doesn't come to that for us. We are a big enough club to come back from everything currently, but give them another 20 years and things may change. 

accept it or grin and bear it? same thing in my book. 

See I wouldn't want any further down the leagues just to get new owners. No guarantees we would come back. All depends on who the new owners and the funding to run the club. 

4 hours ago, Blue blood said:

I don't know who would. But I do know ANY owner would be better than what we have. 

Defending Venkys is literally defending the indefensible. Not saying you are but pointing out asking who will want it is daft as anyone would do a better job. 

 

I would be very sceptical of any new owners and their plans long term. after our experiences with the current owners I would be careful 1st. 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[LDRover]

I really don't know where to start with that so I'm leaving it to someone else to find the words. I'm almost speechless.

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Think his trophy cabinet has far more medals and awards than your hero Mowbray.

I think 9 out of 10 would take Keane over Mowbray every day of the week.

Not interested in Keane medal collection cos it means nothing in management world. 

When was his last job as manager? How did it go? 

 

[Mercer]

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not interested in Keane medal collection cos it means nothing in management world. 

When was his last job as manager? How did it go? 

 

Rovers goalie to kid Benson 'what've you done in football, show us your caps and medals'

Player to Mowbray 'What've you achieved in football' - 'my wife makes great lemon drizzle cake'!

Bottom line is Keane has done it all and got the tee shirt.  Benson and Mowbray haven't.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Mercer

[JHRover]

42 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Its an important part of your question, is who and why would they been interested in buying Rovers? how would they run the club and who would they appoint as CEO? I am would be very sceptical of any new possible owners. That's isn't to say I want Venkys to remain as owners but I wouldn't be jumping for joy if they sold the club to any new owners until we see what their new owners did. 

Yes Newcastle have being bought for months now. Their takeover might happen or not. Who knows. We will see how good or bad they are as owners if they buy the club. 

Yes Wigan have people interested. I think I read they had over 25 offers of interest of buying but their administrators did say probably only 4 or 5 interested parties would be serious and able to fund the club long term. So Lets wait and see who buy the club and runs the club.  

I have listened Mowbray on BBC Radio Lancs and he doesn't sounded fed up but very realistic with the current economic situation in the world. 

accept it or grin and bear it? same thing in my book. 

See I wouldn't want any further down the  to get new owners. No guarantees we would come back. All depends on who the new owners and the funding to run the club. 

I would be very sceptical of any new owners and their plans long term. after our experiences with the current owners I would be careful 1st. 

 

It isn't that important.

I don't think Venkys are running this club properly. I think the latest interviews from Mowbray once again demonstrate that they do not treat this club with the respect and attention it requires and as a result we will be at a constant disadvantage until they either clear off or change their ways (which isn't going to happen after 10 years)

Who would be interested in Rovers and why? I have no idea. There is a big wide world out there and lots of people who would spot an opportunity to revitalise a once proud football club which remains a big name in English football and has the potential to dine at the top table again. Why would millionaires/billionaires have bought Leeds, Barnsley, Wednesday, Sheff Utd, Derby, Forest, Birmingham, Villa, Wolves, Cardiff, Reading, Watford, Bournemouth, Southampton, QPR, Fulham and the others over the last few years? Perhaps they would be football fans who want to embark on a project instead of disinterested non football fans who have no clue or idea. Perhaps they would have a business plan to invest to reach the Premier League. I don't know. But I'd like to find out. Sticking with neglectful owners until the end of time whilst the club drifts and shrinks just because we don't know who might be interested isn't a reason.

It's like wanting to move house but never putting it up for sale because you don't believe it would sell.

 

[Blue blood]

50 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

. 

I would be very sceptical of any new owners and their plans long term. after our experiences with the current owners I would be careful 1st. 

 

See this is the thing. Short of destroying the Jack Walker statue and changing the kit to jockstraps I struggle to see how any new owners could be worse. 

We won't get anywhere being the plaything of an agency with owners who won't even use Skype for planning. We are literally set up to fail. I mean seriously the bar is so low now I fail to see how it could be worse. 

[roversfan99]

Playing career often has little correlation to managerial success. Putting Mowbray down against former Premier League legends just takes the focus away from the real issues at hand, lack of progress in terms of points tallies, transfer horror shows, bizarre tactics etc. Roy Keane (who I like as a pundit) would not be a good appointment.

[Mercer]

Just now, Blue blood said:

See this is the thing. Short of destroying the Jack Walker statue and changing the kit to jockstraps I struggle to see how any new owners could be worse. 

We won't get anywhere being the plaything of an agency with owners who won't even use Skype for planning. We are literally set up to fail. I mean seriously the bar is so low now I fail to see how it could be worse. 

The 'happy clappers' live in a weird and wonderful world!

[roversfan99]

Just now, JHRover said:

It isn't that important.

I don't think Venkys are running this club properly. I think the latest interviews from Mowbray once again demonstrate that they do not treat this club with the respect and attention it requires and as a result we will be at a constant disadvantage until they either clear off or change their ways (which isn't going to happen after 10 years)

Who would be interested in Rovers and why? I have no idea. There is a big wide world out there and lots of people who would spot an opportunity to revitalise a once proud football club which remains a big name in English football and has the potential to dine at the top table again. Why would millionaires/billionaires have bought Leeds, Barnsley, Wednesday, Sheff Utd, Derby, Forest, Birmingham, Villa, Wolves, Cardiff, Reading, Watford, Bournemouth, Southampton, QPR, Fulham and the others over the last few years? Perhaps they would be football fans who want to embark on a project instead of disinterested non football fans who have no clue or idea. Perhaps they would have a business plan to invest to reach the Premier League. I don't know. But I'd like to find out. Sticking with neglectful owners until the end of time whilst the club drifts and shrinks just because we don't know who might be interested isn't a reason.

It's like wanting to move house but never putting it up for sale because you don't believe it would sell.

 

But they "have other businesses and coronavirus is bad in India." 

Surely that justifies not giving a shit about a Championship club that you own and adopting anything but proactive processes consistently throughout their tenure? And we should accept it rather than mentioning it again?

[Mercer]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Playing career often has little correlation to managerial success. Putting Mowbray down against former Premier League legends just takes the focus away from the real issues at hand, lack of progress in terms of points tallies, transfer horror shows, bizarre tactics etc. Roy Keane (who I like as a pundit) would not be a good appointment.

I think you miss the point.

When Kenny arrived, players listened because of his legendary status.  He automatically commanded their attention / respect by his achievements in the game.

Very early in my professional life, I had a mentor who was a retired CEO of a national organisation.  I listened and learned and it was perhaps the most beneficial 12 months of my working life!

Edited July 16, 2020 by Mercer

[47er]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

We know but keep posting about day after on here is going to change what? 

Dismissive? not at all but I just accept it cos I cant change it so what else can I do?

You have been known to be repetitive yourself Chaddy!

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I think you miss the point.

When Kenny arrived, players listened because of his legendary status.  He automatically commanded their attention / respect by his achievements in the game.

He may have done but there are many examples where incredible former players have struggled in management. Roy Keane was a fantastic player who will command respect but it doesnt mean that he is a good manager. I wouldnt want former playing careers to come into a search for our new manager, whenever that is.

[Sparks Rover]

40 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

When was his last job as manager? How did it go? 

 

You always say this about any new manager. They are bound to have been sacked at some point unless its their first job in management. 

Keane has a record of promotion from the Championship,  he has gravitas, a no nonesense approach which is much needed here.  I don't see how you can just dismiss him.

I'd definitely give him a go.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Sparks Rover

[Amo]

46 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

When was his last job as manager? How did it go? 

 

How did it go for Mowbray at Celtic and Coventry?

[chaddyrovers]

29 minutes ago, JHRover said:

 

Who would be interested in Rovers and why? I have no idea. There is a big wide world out there and lots of people who would spot an opportunity to revitalise a once proud football club which remains a big name in English football and has the potential to dine at the top table again. Why would millionaires/billionaires have bought Leeds, Barnsley, Wednesday, Sheff Utd, Derby, Forest, Birmingham, Villa, Wolves, Cardiff, Reading, Watford, Bournemouth, Southampton, QPR, Fulham and the others over the last few years? Perhaps they would be football fans who want to embark on a project instead of disinterested non football fans who have no clue or idea. Perhaps they would have a business plan to invest to reach the Premier League. I don't know. But I'd like to find out. Sticking with neglectful owners until the end of time whilst the club drifts and shrinks just because we don't know who might be interested isn't a reason.

It's like wanting to move house but never putting it up for sale because you don't believe it would sell.

 

But at this time we have a massive economic recession happening. The world is a very different place to 6 months ago. 

another Wigan could be around the corner. Who knows. 

I haven't said we should stick with the current owners just I would be very sceptical of any potential owners coming in, having the funding in place to run the club long term and who would they bring into the club to run it. 

Look how long it took last time to sell the club and we were in the Premier League, very well run club and Mark Hughes as manager. Plus before the 2008 economic recession. 

 

[JacknOry]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not interested in Keane medal collection cos it means nothing in management world. 

When was his last job as manager? How did it go? 

 

You dont do yourself any favours. When was TMs last job as manager? How did it go?

[JacknOry]

 

1 hour ago, 47er said:

You have been known to be repetitive yourself Chaddy!

Usually multiple times in the same post.

[mustard]

I find it hard to sit here and call for Mowbray out since I really like the man, think he's a good guy and value a lot of things he's done for the club, though I find my enduring yet wavering faith in him is rather out of the hope that he'll get it right rather than the belief that he will.

I know transfers have been hit and miss, though I think he's got more right than he has wrong as I'm of the belief, for example, that there's a player in Brererton and he will come good (probably with better coaching), despite Gallagher looking like he isn't going to make it to anywhere near the value paid for him (frustrating how can a 6'4 striker can be so lightweight).  I do think he fluffed up with Raya, particularly his treatment of him in the press etc, something he has been doing, to my disdain, with Nyambe and maybe even others, quick to throw players under the bus for his tactical/coaching failings.  I do think there's a pretty good squad that's been assembled, that could almost certainly have done better and will do better under more astute guidance.

Though there are some holes and issues in the squad that he's failed to address in his time here, often attempting to fill the gaps with loans.  I do worry for next season when having to replace a player of Adarabioyo's quality in an already leaky defence, and the likelihood he'll persevere with players like Bennett who simply aren't good enough.  And I guess this is the crux of it, do I believe that he will be able to find the answers when he hasn't done previously?  Likely not.  Though the majority of my concerns are not necessarily with the personnel, but with tactics and man management of players.

Whilst his formations and starting lineups have sometimes worked, they've often left a lot to be desired, but it's in his substitutions that I take most issue with.  Often, they seem like he's already planned them out and isn't actually making a change to the benefit of the team based on the game in front of him, rarely making a reactive decision to what's going on on the field, but rather following his own pre-written plan.  I've seen this numerous times when chasing a game and he's replaced a centre midfielder or more attacking player with a similar or more defensive player, or a striker for a striker, a real lack of incisiveness or innovation.

This last issue was confounded for me vs Millwall, when we are 1-0 down, needing a win if we are to have any chance of making play-offs, and he substitutes two centre midfielders in the 81st minute for... two centre midfielders.  We had a striker in Brererton on the bench but he obviously wanted to give him the two fingers in retaliation for his previous dismissal, and instead put on Buckley and Davenport, probably because he'd already planned it, something I've seen him do with Buckley in an almost identical situation.  For me, that seems petty and shows a complete disregard for the game in front of him.  Seemed he had no intention of going for the win, arguably not even for the draw.

I'm hesitant in calling for his sacking due to the slim chance of us actually employing anyone better due to who we have behind the scenes, but at this point, I'm at a loss.  We need to push for promotion, at least for the top six.  Do I think we will do that with Tony Mowbray in charge?  Sadly not.

[AllRoverAsia]

2 hours ago, Amo said:

How did it go for Mowbray at Celtic and Coventry?

Scott Brown “I had Tony Mowbray as a manager – that was a crisis. We’re playing well now but back then we weren’t playing any football whatsoever and the crowds were down to 15,000-20,000"

Quite how he got Celtic crowds down to below 20K is unknown to this day.

[AllRoverAsia]

On a positive note, we are above PNE in the 10 game form guide league. Mowbray is a Friigin Legend! This will be all over Facebook

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by AllRoverAsia

[tomphil]

4 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Scott Brown “I had Tony Mowbray as a manager – that was a crisis. We’re playing well now but back then we weren’t playing any football whatsoever and the crowds were down to 15,000-20,000"

Quite how he got Celtic crowds down to below 20K is unknown to this day.

6 forwards on the pitch at one time I've read somewhere.

Meanwhile someone on the LT saying he's signed 10 attacking players since he's been here.

You'd think with such bold ambitious football the crowds there and here would have been climbing not receding.

Something doesn't add up, not Tony's fault though his clubs are perennially at a crossroads every summer,.....

[Atko's Engine]

As I've been clear on here before, I'm in the Mowbray to stay camp, but I've also accepted there's plenty of room for further improvement.

I genuinely do think that this season would have been a more successful one had we had a bit more luck with injuries. Yes that's not the only reason and there's other criticisms that can be fairly levelled, but hear me out.

Obviously there's Dack; our best player for 3 years, top scorer in his time here. Any team would miss a player like that, the focal point of our offensive game. When he got injured we were pushing 6th, albeit in that game itself we weren't pulling up trees. Of course it's too simplistic to say we'd have got 6th had he stayed fit, but for sure we'd have had a better chance.

Moving on, some above queried why didn't we go out & buy a replacement? Well, we already had one in Holtby; not an identikit replacement but a good, competent number 10. Why would he buy another one, which would leave him open to suggestions of not being confident in Holtby, especially with Buckley on the fringes too? Holtby in fact slotted in quite well and it looked like we could then continue to improve without Dack. 

But then he got injured too which is hugely unfortunate given that the team was built on playing with a number 10. With Buckley proving to be not quite ready for that kind of crucial role week in week out, we were left short in that respect but most teams would on losing 2 players in the same position.

Then there's Evans. Ok, I know he has his detractors; I've been amongst them. But he was looking like a main player for us again this season & put in some really strong performances alongside Travis, linking play effectively from front to back, especiallyaround the turn of the year when top 6 was achievable. But then he too, shortly afterwards, suffered a horrific, hugely unfortunate injury. Cue more disruption in a central area resulting in an over-reliance on certain individuals (especially Travis). Even after lockdown, Evans comes back fit, starts, puts in a top performance v Bristol but then breaks his big toe; even for someone with his injury record, this is quite some achievement!

Then look at Cunningham. We were all crying out for a new, top half Championship standard left back who could perform consistently well both defensively& offensively. He came and was looking exactly that, just what we needed. Yet come October he too gets injured & is out for the season. Bell deputises, with mixed results (being generous), but then he too also gets injured. Williams, 3rd choice LB, then also gets injured, with neither of them being available for the crucial 9 match run-in. 

So then we see Bennett & JRC playing there, which would never have happened but for 3 players suffering medium to long term injuries. You can be pretty sure that Bennett's game time would've been far less had LB not been such a problem position through mid & long term injuries.

Other short term injuries from time to time, such as those seen with Lenihan & Nyambe, are what you expect in a season, perhaps with 1 longer term one thrown in. To suffer what we have, to players in such key positions can only be considered very bad luck. To have so many players injured in 2-3 positions which are key to the overall effectiveness of the team could not have been predicted or planned for.

I can hear people now saying this is just excuses, injuries are part of football etc., which I accept is true. But these are nevertheless facts / events beyond TM's control; not the only ones admittedly, there's more to it than that and there have been disappointments elsewhere, but they're true nonetheless. As a consequence I think that's good reason to cut TM some slack for this season and allow him the chance to further develop the squad, get Dack back, another LB, hopefully for BB and / or Gallagher to step up and push for a top 6 berth more aggressively.