Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Blue blood said:

Absolutely that's the only thing for me that makes me not gutted that TM isn't gone. Not saying he is a good manager but being run by a substandard agency does mean replacing him well will be nigh on impossible. Venkys and the horror show previously are probably key reasons why he is popular with elements of the fan base too. 

In a normal club, or Rovers pre Venkys, everyone would want him out. Look at the stick Sam got for doing a much better job. It always comes down to Venkys and the effect they have on us, one of which is the erosion of standards. 

Ya, 100%. Could be another Coyle/Kean style appointment and everyone knows, they don't fire quickly. 

[AllRoverAsia]

The left-back problem was caused by the injury to Cunningham.

Many including me were of the opinion when that injury occurred that Bell and Williams were not fit for purpose. Even Williams thought so and wanted to play as a CB,

Get facts correct

[Blue blood]

4 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya, 100%. Could be another Coyle/Kean style appointment and everyone knows, they don't fire quickly. 

Even the non catastrophic appointments have been poor. Bowyer, Lambert, Appleton and Berg (albeit the latter two were in different times) don't inspire confidence they would do better than TM when finding a replacement. It's hard to muster any enthusiasm for a new manager search given the owners and restrictions in place. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

33 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Not having money for defensive signings is a trend spanning longer than Mowbray's time here. I keep referring to a brilliant topic on this board which showed our spend on defenders compared to attackers since Venky's came - there isn't even a comparison. It is becoming abundantly clear that money is not there for centre halves, for whatever reason. This again is an issue which extends way above our domestic management team, if you will, and appears to be a direct policy of our funders / owners.

I don't think it would have been wise to sign a replacement for Dack. We had Holtby and Buckley, but nobody expected both of them to face injuries / knocks too. You bring a player in and then over the course of the season when Holtby comes back that player is a wasted wage. It's a very difficult thing to comprehend as a supporter, as we don't see the finances, but signing a player in January might have been the difference between not signing a player in summer. I'm not absolving any blame here but I don't think it is as black and white as what it is being made out.

We still have some deadwood and if we had a healthy budget I'd trust Mowbray again to try and give us that extra push to play offs. I don't suspect we will have much money to spend and that would probably push me more to getting a manager who is more known for getting the best out of what he has.

I think we could have dealt with our squad injuries a little better, and tried a few more of the youth rather than sticking with tried-and-failed players shoehorned into unnatural positions, but I don't think our injuries should just be cast aside when discussing why we didn't achieve the aims the club set out. Once again though, I don't think any fan expected this squad to reach the play offs this season, it was only when Mowbray came out and said that was the aim that we thought about it. In that respect, he's made his own problem.

Let's say you've been appointed as the works manager of a large manufacturing company. You get called into a meeting with the higher echelon and they tell you that  1) Production is solely your responsibility. 2)  You can spend some money on new machinery. 3) The money spent on maintaining the building, servicing, repair and maintenance of the machinery has to be kept strictly to minimum. How long do you hang around in that circumstance ? How long do you accept " responsibility without power " ?

Edited July 17, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Blue blood said:

Even the non catastrophic appointments have been poor. Bowyer, Lambert, Appleton and Berg (albeit the latter two were in different times) don't inspire confidence they would do better than TM when finding a replacement. It's hard to muster any enthusiasm for a new manager search given the owners and restrictions in place. 

Ya, that's it. There has been no previous behaviour from the owners that would suggest they would make an appointment that would improve us, particularly in the current climate.

Then would say Mick McCarthy work for them? Mowbray keeps saying in the last week or 2 he has no idea of the direction we are going in financially, let alone actual budgets. 

[Blue blood]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya, that's it. There has been no previous behaviour from the owners that would suggest they would make an appointment that would improve us, particularly in the current climate.

Then would say Mick McCarthy work for them? Mowbray keeps saying in the last week or 2 he has no idea of the direction we are going in financially, let alone actual budgets. 

I'd take McCarthy in a shot but who is his agent? If it's not the ones running us then we have no chance. If he is with them, then I would be hoping that such an appointment would be made and would do that swap in an instant. 

He has multiple promotions on his CV (more than TM) and did very well on a limited budget at Ipswich to keep them in the Championship (contrast TM's £12 million splurge). Players speak well of him (mostly) which means he probably be not too drastic a culture shock for our squad - they need a better mentality but a more friendly approach to raising standards may be the better than a manager like Souness or Roy Keane who is too combustible. 

If he is on the allowed list I would be telling TM to pack his bags. 

[Gav]

Its no surprise that West Brom and Leeds are in poll position to go straight up, clubs that have spent millions over the past few years, makes our £12m look like peanuts. 

Brentford have spent over £30m on new players over the past few years!

When you look at those numbers its clear Blackburn Rovers 2020 simply can't compete and bringing in a new manager won't change that sadly.

We've got to wee with the willy we've got and small improvements is the only way forward for a club like ours in 2020.

Sacking the manager disrupts those small improvements and should be avoided at all costs, for now...

Edited July 17, 2020 by Gav

[LDRover]

1 minute ago, Gav said:

Its no surprise that West Brom and Leeds are in poll position to go straight up, clubs that have spent millions over the past few years, makes our £12m look like peanuts. 

Brentford have spent over £30m on new players over the past few years!

When you look at those numbers its clear Blackburn Rovers 2020 simply can't compete and bringing in a new manager won't change that sadly.

We've got to wee with the willy we've got and small improvements is the only way forward for a club like ours in 2020.

Sacking the manager disrupts those small improvements and should be avoided at all costs, for now...

Brentford are actually 8 million in profit on transfers in and out yet have managed to improve year on year.

Good recruitment and good coaching/management not only works on the field it makes sound business sense too.

[Blue blood]

5 minutes ago, Gav said:

Its no surprise that West Brom and Leeds are in poll position to go straight up, clubs that have spent millions over the past few years, makes our £12m look like peanuts. 

Brentford have spent over £30m on new players over the past few years!

When you look at those numbers its clear Blackburn Rovers 2020 simply can't compete and bringing in a new manager won't change that sadly.

We've got to wee with the willy we've got and small improvements is the only way forward for a club like ours in 2020.

Sacking the manager disrupts those small improvements and should be avoided at all costs, for now...

How have Brentford overtaken us? 

I think its because they have recouped more in fees and built up and progressed the team year on year. They are ahead of us because they have done things the right way. Far from Brentford showing us we can't compete, they are a model for how clubs can compete dispite not having parachute payments, a big fan base and strong financial backing. 

Also PNE and Millwall are above us with smaller budgets. I hate to say it but PNE have been much closer to the playoffs than us with none of our alleged advantages. 

[Mattyblue]

I’m just waiting for FFP to be scrapped, as our billionaire owners are ‘desperate to invest in players’, what a willy it’ll be!

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

The whole set up needs a shake up from top to bottom.

 

I remember listening to Radio Lancashire one  Saturday afternoon. The dingles were getting battered at half time at home to some no mark team like Gillingham. Stan Ternent, who hadn't been there long, had made all his subs at half time. I caught the interview after the game. You could tell he was absolutely furious, he said said " There were players out there today that will never play for this club again as long as I am the manager. I will never, ever, accept lack of effort from any player ".

One or two he was criticising were high profile players but a bit long in the tooth and as far as I know they never did play for the dingles again.

That's what we've been short of, some straight talking.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Gav]

The current manager has given us stability and small shoots of recovery/structure in the background, its not the sexy part football fans are interested in but its vital to the success of any business.

To pull up those roots now would be a real waste, set us back years, because I can't see an outstanding candidate in the dross thats available, certainly nobody that can get a poorly run, financially hamstrung, mid table championship club into the Premiership and that would be the only goal for a new man coming in.

Stick with Mowbray for now.

 

[Mattyblue]

Did you see Mowbray coming in ‘amongst the dross’ after Coyle?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Gav said:

The current manager has given us stability and small shoots of recovery/structure in the background, its not the sexy part football fans are interested in but its vital to the success of any business.

To pull up those roots now would be a real waste, set us back years, because I can't see an outstanding candidate in the dross thats available, certainly nobody that can get a poorly run, financially hamstrung, mid table championship club into the Premiership and that would be the only goal for a new man coming in.

Stick with Mowbray for now.

 

Stockholm syndrome in a couple of sentences. Maybe you can't see it but lots of contributors to this site are losing the will to watch football because of the current manager. Me for one.

[Blue blood]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Did you see Mowbray coming in ‘amongst the dross’ after Coyle?

To be fair it could only be an improvement on Coyle. I mean it literally couldn't get any worse bar a Kean 2 situation and that was a unique set of circumstances we will never see again. 

TM is distinctly average but the agency in charge does seem to specialise in dross. So yeah it's a lot more risky changing managers now even though TM isn't that good. 

 

[Mattyblue]

Don’t disagree, but I remember all too well how disgruntled the majority of fans were on his appointment. There are always managers out there.

But this whole discussion is moot and a waste of everyone’s time, as he will be in situ for as long as he wants, with the possible exception of imminent relegation, yet even with that, the Waggott/Mowbray axis and his relationship with the owners is on the surface much stronger than anything our last few managers have had as a protective shield.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Scotland1]

22 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The whole set up needs a shake up from top to bottom.

 

I remember listening to Radio Lancashire one  Saturday afternoon. The dingles were getting battered at half time at home to some no mark team like Gillingham. Stan Ternent, who hadn't been there long, had made all his subs at half time. I caught the interview after the game. You could tell he was absolutely furious, he said said " There were players out there today that will never play for this club again as long as I am the manager. I will never, ever, accept lack of effort from any player ".

One or two he was criticising were high profile players but a bit long in the tooth and as far as I know they never did play for the dingles again.

That's what we've been short of, some straight talking.

I love a Stan story tbf 

[Dreams of 1995]

50 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Let's say you've been appointed as the works manager of a large manufacturing company. You get called into a meeting with the higher echelon and they tell you that  1) Production is solely your responsibility. 2)  You can spend some money on new machinery. 3) The money spent on maintaining the building, servicing, repair and maintenance of the machinery has to be kept strictly to minimum. How long do you hang around in that circumstance ? How long do you accept " responsibility without power " ?

For as long as I am being paid or until a better offer comes along.

We should be thankful managers do stick around and try and work with them, otherwise we'd be back to the situation where we are going through managers like nobodies business. For every Paul Lambert there will be a Mowbray, who is willing to work in difficult circumstances. Some managers have made careers out of it.

The lack of money to spend on defensive players is something that Waggot & co need to challenge Venky's about. I refuse to believe that this has been a problem for our managers dating back to their takeover without there being another reason for it.

[JHRover]

27 minutes ago, Gav said:

The current manager has given us stability and small shoots of recovery/structure in the background, its not the sexy part football fans are interested in but its vital to the success of any business.

To pull up those roots now would be a real waste, set us back years, because I can't see an outstanding candidate in the dross thats available, certainly nobody that can get a poorly run, financially hamstrung, mid table championship club into the Premiership and that would be the only goal for a new man coming in.

Stick with Mowbray for now.

 

I don't understand why a change of management represents 'pulling up roots'.

At most clubs you fire a manager and his staff and replace with a sensible candidate.

Why should getting rid of Mowbray mean that the club is set back years and the progress undone? Surely the plan, owners, board and staff would all remain or is the entire edifice built on Mowbray's presence and it all comes tumbling down without him? 

We've seriously allowed the future of a multi million pound organisation to depend on the continuing presence of a man who should live or die by results on a football pitch? 

What sort of club allows such a structure? Sunday league clubs are built on more solid foundations.

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, JHRover said:

I don't understand why a change of management represents 'pulling up roots'.

At most clubs you fire a manager and his staff and replace with a sensible candidate.

Why should getting rid of Mowbray mean that the club is set back years and the progress undone? Surely the plan, owners, board and staff would all remain or is the entire edifice built on Mowbray's presence and it all comes tumbling down without him? 

We've seriously allowed the future of a multi million pound organisation to depend on the continuing presence of a man who should live or die by results on a football pitch? 

What sort of club allows such a structure? Sunday league clubs are built on more solid foundations.

You are asking questions you already know the answer to...

[Gav]

40 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Stockholm syndrome in a couple of sentences. Maybe you can't see it but lots of contributors to this site are losing the will to watch football because of the current manager. Me for one.

You've not yet come to terms with the plight the club finds itself in, like many on the site might I add.

Yes we can change the manager, but I'm telling you now, without significant investment we're not going up, we're not even making the playoffs, the clubs a basket case.

As for fans losing the will to watch football, I think thats more to do with your own personal circumstances tbh.

Tosin is a quality player, Lenihan looks like he could play at a higher level, Dacks a magician when he's fit, Naymabe progressing nicely, Downing superb, how can fans not enjoy watching those players? 

We all want to win matches and progress, but you need some perspective thrown in.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Gav

[Mattyblue]

I’m not particularly arsed about ‘good football’ ‘entertainment’. I’m entertained by winning. But come on Gav, you surely can’t think we a side that plays exciting, dynamic football?

[47er]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

Even the non catastrophic appointments have been poor. Bowyer, Lambert, Appleton and Berg (albeit the latter two were in different times) don't inspire confidence they would do better than TM when finding a replacement. It's hard to muster any enthusiasm for a new manager search given the owners and restrictions in place. 

Which makes me think they'd go for Johnno if (big if) they decided Times Up For Tony.

[Gav]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

I’m not particularly arsed about ‘good football’ ‘entertainment’. I’m entertained by winning. But come on Gav, you surely can’t think we a side that plays exciting, dynamic football?

Thats where we differ then Matty, I like watching footballers play football, its been great watching Nyambe progress after everyone wrote the lad off, Tosin is absolute quality, sometimes worth the admission fee alone.

As for the football we play, well thats like the vast majority of the sides in the league at our level, you cut your cloth accordingly. 

 

[Mattyblue]

Just now, Gav said:

Thats where we differ then Matty, I like watching footballers play football, its been great watching Nyambe progress after everyone wrote the lad off, Tosin is absolute quality, sometimes worth the admission fee alone.

As for the football we play, well thats like the vast majority of the sides in the league at our level, you cut your cloth accordingly. 

 

Who doesn’t like watching players develop? Not sure how we differ there, especially when they are from our precious academy. (Oh and everyone wrote Nyambe off? Did they? I didn’t)

We don’t cut our cloth accordingly, that’s the issue. We are attempting to play a ‘possession based game’ without the players. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Mattyblue