Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Kie_BRFC]

Just now, Gav said:

Thats where we differ then Matty, I like watching footballers play football, its been great watching Nyambe progress after everyone wrote the lad off, Tosin is absolute quality, sometimes worth the admission fee alone.

As for the football we play, well thats like the vast majority of the sides in the league at our level, you cut your cloth accordingly. 

 

Who wrote Nyambe off? Mowbray's the one who seems to have written him off for large parts of the season. Most fans want Nyambe playing instead of Mowbray's pet

[arbitro]

6 minutes ago, Gav said:

You've not yet come to terms with the plight the club finds itself in, like many on the site might I add.

Yes we can change the manager, but I'm telling you now, without significant investment we're not going up, we're not even making the playoffs, the clubs a basket case.

As for fans losing the will to watch football, I think thats more to do with your own personal circumstances tbh.

Tosin is a quality player, Lenihan looks like he could play at a higher level, Dacks a magician when he's fit, Naymabe progressing nicely, Downing superb, how can fans not enjoy watching those players? 

We all want to win matches and progress, but you need some perspective thrown in.

I would call what Mowbray has spent significant. West Brom under Bilic have spent around £18m and brought in more than that on outgoings. According to this Leeds haven't spent anything. Mowbray has had money, he has just squandered the bulk of it on poor players.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leeds-united/transfers/verein/399

 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

I’m just waiting for FFP to be scrapped, as our billionaire owners are ‘desperate to invest in players’, what a willy it’ll be!

 

It'll shrink to the size of an acorn.

Both them and Mowbray continually have a set of excuses to hide behind when really most clubs are in the same boat in this league. A few of them regularly out perform us and that is down to the coaching, management and recruitment being better.

It really is that simple.

[Dreams of 1995]

7 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I would call what Mowbray has spent significant. West Brom under Bilic have spent around £18m and brought in more than that on outgoings. According to this Leeds haven't spent anything. Mowbray has had money, he has just squandered the bulk of it on poor players.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leeds-united/transfers/verein/399

 

https://www.transferleague.co.uk/championship-teams-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/championship-last-five-season

West Brom approx £70m net spend in 5 years. Blackburn Rovers approx -£17m net spend.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Dreams of 1995

[arbitro]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

https://www.transferleague.co.uk/championship-teams-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/championship-last-five-season

West Brom approx £70m net spend in 5 years. Blackburn Rovers approx -£17m net spend.

I used this for the current season.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/west-bromwich-albion/transfers/verein/984

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, arbitro said:

I used this for the current season.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/west-bromwich-albion/transfers/verein/984

The current season doesn't capture the true reflection in my eyes. West Brom's squad was already full of ex Premier League players and proven Championship players prior to Billic coming.

Mowbray inherited Jason Lowe, Greer, Brown, Feeney and co. It needed spending just to get it to a level it could compete with Baggies, let alone surpass it.

We needed to buy way more players than Leeds and Baggies following the end of Bowyer and the Lambert / Coyle disaster. 

[Stuart]

Coventry, a club badly hit by Mowbray’s time there, have just been promoted as champions of L1. Interestingly 7 more points than us having played 10 fewer games.

I wonder if Mowbray taking us below them next season would be an awakening for any more fans? It would certainly be symbolic.

[Mattyblue]

We aren’t close to West Brom and Leeds. Surely a better barometer would be clubs like Millwall. Similar gates, but certainly not spending £12 million, yet every chance of the playoffs. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I saw a quote in todays paper earlier. " I'm delighted to walk out having only got beat 2-0 " said a furious Chris Wilder. " Their heart was bigger than ours ". How often could that be applied to lesser opponents this season who have gone on and turned us over ? There's no heart in the club from top to bottom, there hasn't been for years, and I'm sick of having to say it !

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think fans are just afraid and apprehensive about how wrong things could quickly go if they got the next appointment wrong. I mean it is a genuine fear.  

I'm sure there could be a role found for Mowbray within the club where he can continue to work on the infrastructure whilst leaving a fresh face with fresh ideas to take over first team affairs.

Winner all around he still stays in the background scouting players, setting up his network and learning how to fly drones. He's there for some players to go to still for advice but he stays out of first team affairs.  If the new man doesn't work out he could step back in for a bit if we are desperate.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I'm sure there could be a role found for Mowbray within the club where he can continue to work on the infrastructure whilst leaving a fresh face with fresh ideas to take over first team affairs.

Winner all around he still stays in the background scouting players, setting up his network and learning how to fly drones. He's there for some players to go to still for advice but he stays out of first team affairs.  If the new man doesn't work out he could step back in for a bit if we are desperate.

Scouting players, really ? Johnno's the chief drone pilot so there isn't a vacancy.. What sort of advice have you got in mind ? " Get rid of those ripped jeans son, and you look a right dipstick in that back to front baseball cap " ?

[tomphil]

4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Scouting players, really ? Johnno's the chief drone pilot so there isn't a vacancy.. What sort of advice have you got in mind ? " Get rid of those ripped jeans son, and you look a right dipstick in that back to front baseball cap " ?

We need fresh ideas and he looks like he needs a break so surely some middle ground can be found. As for scouting, yes scouting who he's been told to scout not going through his little black book of nice lads recommended by nice lads !

He'll not want to step down from his 20 grand per week role though so it's a non starter sadly.

Edited July 17, 2020 by tomphil

[RoversClitheroe]

3 hours ago, K-Hod said:

I think this is the thing that drives me mad about blaming injuries. They wouldn’t be such an issue if the manager hadn’t spent all our money on two players that have contributed very little to the cause. We wouldn’t have missed Dack or Holtby at all if Brereton and Gallagher had scored regularly....

Exactly! Still can't believe people believe the Dack and Holtby excuse. 

Everyone myself included said Armstrong wasn't good enough. But he stepped up and is performing excellently. 

Cannot say the same for our £7m and £5m signing. How many goals have they scored? 

[arbitro]

27 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

The current season doesn't capture the true reflection in my eyes. West Brom's squad was already full of ex Premier League players and proven Championship players prior to Billic coming.

Mowbray inherited Jason Lowe, Greer, Brown, Feeney and co. It needed spending just to get it to a level it could compete with Baggies, let alone surpass it.

We needed to buy way more players than Leeds and Baggies following the end of Bowyer and the Lambert / Coyle disaster. 

Mowbray did inherit some trash but that was three years and more importantly around £20m ago. Whichever way you look at it Mowbray has squandered a significant amount of money and just not improved the squad he inherited proportionately.

Another costly aspect of his tenure is the awarding of new contracts to players who simply couldn't contribute enough to improve us. And as you mention Jason Lowe didn't Mowbray want him to stay?

[Dreams of 1995]

46 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Coventry, a club badly hit by Mowbray’s time there, have just been promoted as champions of L1. Interestingly 7 more points than us having played 10 fewer games.

I wonder if Mowbray taking us below them next season would be an awakening for any more fans? It would certainly be symbolic.

Revisionism at its finest. Coventry have been hit by SISU, not Mowbray's time there.

In 2012 Cov went down to League 1; in 2013 SISU sold their rights to Ricoh; in 2015 Cov fans began seriously protesting against SISU; in 2015 Mowbray came to pull off a survival in League 1; the following season he had a shocking start and left and after 4 years of no money, administration and the relocation to Northampton they went down.

Don't let facts get in the way of your Mowbray bashing you slip into every single post though ?

Coventry fans were one of the few clubs who showed support for us in our protests against Venkys. Let's not rewrite history in an attempt to further a point.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Dreams of 1995

[JHRover]

Mowbray is droning on about wanting to copy the possession based styles of the top clubs and this is apparently our route to the Premier League, although he accepts we don't have the budget to do this and that it could take a long time to deliver.

Personally I think he is wrong. I think there are different ways to get promoted depending upon where each club is and what strengths you have. 

Leeds, West Brom and Fulham have spent fortunes, have excellent squads including parachute money funded wage bills and in the first two cases excellent managers and coaching staff. 

Brentford are a world unto themselves and nobody can copy them.

Forest don't play possession based attacking football. Nor do Cardiff, Millwall or Preston.

In my view with our resources we would be better placed trying to emulate the likes of Cardiff, Hull and Brighton who got out of this league on lesser resources.

The other problem is that even if we did get promoted playing this famed possession style we would then get slaughtered trying to use.it in the top flight. At least a defensively solid and hard to break down unit could go up and grind out results.

I don't think Mowbray has the capabilites to deliver either. He certainly can't make us defensively solid and tough to break down/beat.

The 'work in progress' stuff is clearly aimed at someone though. Muddled thinking and it will not pay off.

 

 

[Mattyblue]

3 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Exactly! Still can't believe people believe the Dack and Holtby excuse. 

Everyone myself included said Armstrong wasn't good enough. But he stepped up and is performing excellently. 

Cannot say the same for our £7m and £5m signing. How many goals have they scored? 

Did they?

[Dreams of 1995]

2 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Mowbray did inherit some trash but that was three years and more importantly around £20m ago. Whichever way you look at it Mowbray has squandered a significant amount of money and just not improved the squad he inherited proportionately.

Another costly aspect of his tenure is the awarding of new contracts to players who simply couldn't contribute enough to improve us. And as you mention Jason Lowe didn't Mowbray want him to stay?

That still doesn't detract from the fact that using net spend as an argument against Mowbray is wrong. He's been here 3 years, and on average over 5 years we have one of the lowest net spends in the league.

I'm fighting a losing battle on here trying to defend the bloke. I'm certainly not going to be his cheerleader, but it's difficult to sit by and watch Rovers fans completely rewrite the truth to slam a manager that doesn't need a lot of help to criticise.

I don't think he has squandered the money personally and I think there's reasons why we only sign certain players. I don't know why he gave Mulgrew and Smallwood contracts, but the only immediate thought is it was a bonus for a fantastic season prior, but now in hindsight that is a mistake. I didn't see many people complain about it though, and I'm certain it was blueboy who once brought up the old topics to show how many people praised them, who are now some of the people slamming him for it. 

[Mattyblue]

You’ve got on your high horse this morning, but you wanted him sacked earlier in the season. After a couple of games from memory, that’s far more reactionary than someone wanting him gone on the balance of 40 odd games into his third full season.

5 years? Why not 3 or 2? The Championship is a fluid league, clubs often replace half their team each summer. 5 years ago is ancient history in Championship terms.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Its no surprise that West Brom and Leeds are in poll position to go straight up, clubs that have spent millions over the past few years, makes our £12m look like peanuts. 

Brentford have spent over £30m on new players over the past few years!

When you look at those numbers its clear Blackburn Rovers 2020 simply can't compete and bringing in a new manager won't change that sadly.

We've got to wee with the willy we've got and small improvements is the only way forward for a club like ours in 2020.

Sacking the manager disrupts those small improvements and should be avoided at all costs, for now...

Brentford is a dangerous comparison to make in defense of Mowbray. They have wheeled and dealed and are actually in profit. How many of Mowbrays signings will turn a profit? Dack and Armstrong obviously, but that's probably it. Then you have the £12 million men.

[Dreams of 1995]

18 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

To be fair you wanted him sacked earlier in the season.

5 years? Why not 3 or 2? The Championship is a fluid league, clubs often replace half their team each summer. 5 years ago is ancient history in Championship terms.

I can't quite remember ever calling him for him to be sacked since that Oldham game in League 1. Earlier this season I said it was probably coming to the end of his career here and had the current state of the world not been what it now is I would probably say I'd go for a better manager now. However, the last couple of days has seen this board fall into a state of blaming Mowbray for every single thing wrong at this club and it isn't true. Most of what has been said doesn't sit right with how I see it, so obviously I'll say if I think different. In fact, I remember you bringing this up with me before and I corrected it then.

5 is a benchmark. It takes into account our relegation season, and takes into account the 2 years before Mowbray, which in my eyes are key to understanding how bad of a state the club was. Even over 3 seasons I bet our net spend isn't above middle of the table for the Championship. Those figures I posted doesn't even take into account the promoted clubs like Villa, Norwich etc who all spent fortunes in comparison to us.

Just like Facebook is cringeworthy in its support for Mowbray there's a couple of threads on this board that has been hijacked and no good word can be said about the bloke - but posts based on extremely loose facts are liked in abundance because the underlying message is Mowbray out. Whether that post is true or not is irrelevant. 

Oops, didn't see the cheeky little edit, hardly a high horse Matty, there's been plenty of posts for the opposite side as mine, Mr Contrarian. I didn't want him sacked after a couple of games, although I do remember you quoting a loosely based comment from myself - no doubt you'll find - which even at the 1st, 2nd and 3rd time you've brought it up with me I denied I wanted him sacked. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Dreams of 1995

[arbitro]

1 minute ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

That still doesn't detract from the fact that using net spend as an argument against Mowbray is wrong. He's been here 3 years, and on average over 5 years we have one of the lowest net spends in the league.

I'm fighting a losing battle on here trying to defend the bloke. I'm certainly not going to be his cheerleader, but it's difficult to sit by and watch Rovers fans completely rewrite the truth to slam a manager that doesn't need a lot of help to criticise.

I don't think he has squandered the money personally and I think there's reasons why we only sign certain players. I don't know why he gave Mulgrew and Smallwood contracts, but the only immediate thought is it was a bonus for a fantastic season prior, but now in hindsight that is a mistake. I didn't see many people complain about it though, and I'm certain it was blueboy who once brought up the old topics to show how many people praised them, who are now some of the people slamming him for it. 

I actually think you are putting up a stoic defence for Mowbray (I wish he could do the same for Rovers ?) but ultimately be is judged on results which are determined by many variables which is what many people are using to defend or criticise. I'm really trying to look ahead and firmly believe we have gone as far as he can take us. 

For the record I have always said players should not be rewarded for promotions with new, binding and onerous contracts. They have bonus clauses written into their existing contracts to reward them.

[Miller11]

A large section of our support are complicit in the dumbing down and ever declining ambition.

Every day you see people claiming we should be ever so grateful to Venky’s because “we could easily become the next Bury/Bolton/Wigan/Sunderland”... Bury?!?! We are Blackburn fucking Rovers, and our own fans are comparing us to Bury!

We could easily have become the next Wolves, Sheffield United, Leicester or Burnley. Why is that considered a pipe dream for Blackburn Rovers? Why is this never mentioned?

We have a CEO, or whatever Waggotts title is, who sees Preston and Brentford as teams we should be aspiring to be like. 

No doubt there will be people who think this view is one of entitlement - not at all. I don’t think we are entitled to be in the Premier League, but I do think the club is entitled to be treated with proper attention and respect. And yes, I came along after the tough times Of the 70’s and 80’s, but so did Jack Walker’s influence and legacy, which has been pissed all over. The current mess we are in is akin to that idiot who pissed and snorted away his entire lottery win and ended up back on the dole.

I’m fairly indifferent to Mowbray, it doesn’t look like he will ever make us into genuine promotion contenders, but he’s just a symptom of Venky’s horrendous reign.

[Bigdoggsteel]

39 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I'm sure there could be a role found for Mowbray within the club where he can continue to work on the infrastructure whilst leaving a fresh face with fresh ideas to take over first team affairs.

Winner all around he still stays in the background scouting players, setting up his network and learning how to fly drones. He's there for some players to go to still for advice but he stays out of first team affairs.  If the new man doesn't work out he could step back in for a bit if we are desperate.

Firstly I couldn't see a managers ego allowing that and secondly, has a manager moving like that ever actually worked out? 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Miller11 said:

A large section of our support are complicit in the dumbing down and ever declining ambition.

Every day you see people claiming we should be ever so grateful to Venky’s because “we could easily become the next Bury/Bolton/Wigan/Sunderland”... Bury?!?! We are Blackburn fucking Rovers, and our own fans are comparing us to Bury!

We could easily have become the next Wolves, Sheffield United, Leicester or Burnley. Why is that considered a pipe dream for Blackburn Rovers? Why is this never mentioned?

We have a CEO, or whatever Waggotts title is, who sees Preston and Brentford as teams we should be aspiring to be like. 

No doubt there will be people who think this view is one of entitlement - not at all. I don’t think we are entitled to be in the Premier League, but I do think the club is entitled to be treated with proper attention and respect. And yes, I came along after the tough times Of the 70’s and 80’s, but so did Jack Walker’s influence and legacy, which has been pissed all over. The current mess we are in is akin to that idiot who pissed and snorted away his entire lottery win and ended up back on the dole.

I’m fairly indifferent to Mowbray, it doesn’t look like he will ever make us into genuine promotion contenders, but he’s just a symptom of Venky’s horrendous reign.

Well, at this point, I would take that.