Tony Mowbray Discussion

[chaddyrovers]

12 hours ago, JacknOry said:

You dont do yourself any favours. When was TMs last job as manager? How did it go?

His last job is at Blackburn Rovers were IMO is doing well and progressing the club. He got out league 1 at the 1st attempt where other clubs like Sheff Utd spent years there to get out of that league. 

5 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Injures are part of football, and losing your talisman will undoubtedly have a negative impact on the team.

However, that’s why you have a squad, and a budget. £12 million on forwards should have given us the depth to cope with his absence, but with that enormous amount of money (for a club like us) wasted, then the buck stops with the manager for the poor form post January.

Would you agree that if WBA lost Pereira or Forest lost Grabban long term like we lost Dack they would be in their current league position?  

2 hours ago, Blue blood said:

How have Brentford overtaken us? 

I think its because they have recouped more in fees and built up and progressed the team year on year. They are ahead of us because they have done things the right way. Far from Brentford showing us we can't compete, they are a model for how clubs can compete dispite not having parachute payments, a big fan base and strong financial backing. 

Also PNE and Millwall are above us with smaller budgets. I hate to say it but PNE have been much closer to the playoffs than us with none of our alleged advantages. 

You are correct about Brentford model and they make it work. Have proper structures in place and if their loss head coach at the end of the season its wouldn't effect the overall structure of the club. But their model is unique to football but Their owner is very active at the club. 

[Mattyblue]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

 

Would you agree that if WBA lost Pereira or Forest lost Grabban long term like we lost Dack they would be in their current league position?  

 

I’ve absolutely no idea and neither do you.

[Bigdoggsteel]

As mentioned this morning, I think the fear fans have is that we could end up with a Coyle style appointment, be in the relegation places 2 months into the season with no sign of a change being imminent. Next thing we are in the same boat come February again. At which point they will try get someone like McCarthy who we should have just went for in the first place. They are idiots like. 

[Amo]

Unfortunately, there is some sense in what the MoBros are saying. We are not a normal football club, and in situations like ours it's sometimes better to stick with the devil you know than risk plumbing the depths for the likes of Owen Coyle. 

There was a time when the Rovers manager had a target (promotion, survival) and if he failed to meet that target his position would be reviewed, under the auspices of messieurs Williams and Finn. Sometimes a manager would be given a certain length of rope to hang himself but ultimately if his position was untenable he'd be gone. Most of the suits at Rovers now are glorified paper-pushers with no real executive power. It's been like that from the beginning. Everything rests on the whims of the Punatics and the unseen forces working the club.

Barring a takeover, the only hope is that sooner or later the interests of Rovers and the interests of its "advisors" will align in a stroke of serendipity. Don't bank on it, though.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

His last job is at Blackburn Rovers were IMO is doing well and progressing the club. He got out league 1 at the 1st attempt where other clubs like Sheff Utd spent years there to get out of that league. 

Would you agree that if WBA lost Pereira or Forest lost Grabban long term like we lost Dack they would be in their current league position?  

You are correct about Brentford model and they make it work. Have proper structures in place and if their loss head coach at the end of the season its wouldn't effect the overall structure of the club. But their model is unique to football but Their owner is very active at the club. 

Ironically, Brentford have genuinely operated the slow- build, evolution model, which Tony claims is his model.

[Miller11]

9 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Generally, I do tend to agree with your analyses.

It may seem like mere wordplay, but, on reflection, I  think it is harsh to say a large part of our fanbase is actually complicit.

As Rovers fans, we are all powerless and have not been able to influence the tragic events at our club one iota.

Like yourself, I have been frustrated by the denial and the apparent willingness of some to do mental somersaults in order to be grateful to Venky's. I have also smarted at some people's unwillingness to face the dumbing down.

But the uncomfortable fact is that all our hopes and dreams are entirely at the whim of distant, disengaged Indian chicken people, who probably couldn't name a single one of our players.

To blame fans, who are actually the victims of this tyranny and to call them complicit is taking it too far. Also, I think it is actually contributing to the division, which merely aids the carpetbaggers' agenda.

I don’t use the word lightly, but in the last few weeks I’ve seen Venky’s described as “Our guardian angels”, comments such as “John Williams was running us into the ground”, “Venky’s have done as much, if not more for us than Jack Walker”. I’m more than happy to be as divided as possible from anyone peddling such garbage.

Such garbage seems to get the likes rolling in, which I think is the prime motivation for some... either that, a retweet or fantasies of a job offer.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Miller11

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, Miller11 said:

I don’t use the word lightly, but in the last few weeks I’ve seen Venky’s described as “Our guardian angels”, comments such as “John Williams was running us into the ground”, “Venky’s have done as much of not more for us than Jack Walker”. I’m more than happy to be as divided as possible from anyone peddling such garbage.

Such garbage seems to get the likes rolling in, which I think is the prime motivation for some... either that, a retweet or fantasies of a job offer.

No problem challenging people's views, but don't sentence other supporters-in your frustration- for a crime they didn't commit

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

I would call what Mowbray has spent significant. West Brom under Bilic have spent around £18m and brought in more than that on outgoings. According to this Leeds haven't spent anything. Mowbray has had money, he has just squandered the bulk of it on poor players.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leeds-united/transfers/verein/399

 

Leeds have to sell Jansson and their head coach Bielsa accept that last season. But he sign on loan Ben White. 

 

51 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Exactly! Still can't believe people believe the Dack and Holtby excuse. 

Everyone myself included said Armstrong wasn't good enough. But he stepped up and is performing excellently. 

Cannot say the same for our £7m and £5m signing. How many goals have they scored? 

Did they? 

I didn't. In fact I wanted him moving from wing to playing up front cos IMO he is our best striker and we need to use his pace and movement there

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

I’ve absolutely no idea and neither do you.

Well if Forest still had Brereton, he wouldn't be much of a replacement for Grabban.

Perreira is class, but I still think WBA would be up there without him. 

I have no doubt Chaddy lauded Holtby as a great signing when we got him. So that signing alone should have helped alleviate Dacks loss. Muddled Mowbray made a pigs ear using him as well though. 

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I’ve absolutely no idea and neither do you.

asking for an opinion. 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

24 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

As a poster I often find myself agreeing with I'll leave this as my final thought on the matter. Put better than I am trying to do anyway! 

Nothing will ever change whilst they are here. 

Invested ?

 

Invested ? Cow =  Handful of magic beans.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Leeds have to sell Jansson and their head coach Bielsa accept that last season. But he sign on loan Ben White. 

 

Did they? 

I didn't. In fact I wanted him moving from wing to playing up front cos IMO he is our best striker and we need to use his pace and movement there

Bielsa made the choice to sell him because he was disruptive. He then went on to adapt their style to make them even better. As has been proven by their promotion. 

So whats your point exactly? 

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

His last job is at Blackburn Rovers were IMO is doing well and progressing the club. He got out league 1 at the 1st attempt where other clubs like Sheff Utd spent years there to get out of that league. 

Would you agree that if WBA lost Pereira or Forest lost Grabban long term like we lost Dack they would be in their current league position?  

You are correct about Brentford model and they make it work. Have proper structures in place and if their loss head coach at the end of the season its wouldn't effect the overall structure of the club. But their model is unique to football but Their owner is very active at the club. 

He did very well to get us promoted at the first attempt. That was 2 seasons ago now. Nobody wants him out based on that. Last season we solidified. Now the question is, can we progress? Can we push on? 60 points last year, 60 points now with nothing to play for. Need half a team going into next season. Neither big money signing has shown any signs of being a success. Seem to be in a tactical muddle. You can understand the doubts!

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Leeds have to sell Jansson and their head coach Bielsa accept that last season. But he sign on loan Ben White. 

 

Did they? 

I didn't. In fact I wanted him moving from wing to playing up front cos IMO he is our best striker and we need to use his pace and movement there

And I dont think hes played up front since lockdown. False 9s and Armstrong back stuck out wide. Has it worked? 10 points in the last 11 say maybe not.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

His last job is at Blackburn Rovers were IMO is doing well and progressing the club. He got out league 1 at the 1st attempt where other clubs like Sheff Utd spent years there to get out of that league. 

Would you agree that if WBA lost Pereira or Forest lost Grabban long term like we lost Dack they would be in their current league position?  

You are correct about Brentford model and they make it work. Have proper structures in place and if their loss head coach at the end of the season its wouldn't effect the overall structure of the club. But their model is unique to football but Their owner is very active at the club. 

I think either of those clubs you mention in the event of losing their star player for twelve months at that point in the season would have gone out and got a replacement, even if it was a loan player.

[Mattyblue]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

asking for an opinion. 

 

And I gave it you...

[Leonard Venkhater]

38 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Did you have a preferred adjective in mind for spending £12 Million on two strikers that couldn’t finish their tea?

Adjective-sh1te

Noun -duds

[JacknOry]

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

His last job is at Blackburn Rovers were IMO is doing well and progressing the club. He got out league 1 at the 1st attempt where other clubs like Sheff Utd spent years there to get out of that league. 

No, that is his current job. I asked about his last job. 

You are judging Keane on his previous job - so surely you would have said we shouldnt touch TM judging on his performance at his last couple of clubs?

[Parsonblue]

14 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Generally, I do tend to agree with your analyses.

It may seem like mere wordplay, but, on reflection, I  think it is harsh to say a large part of our fanbase is actually complicit.

As Rovers fans, we are all powerless and have not been able to influence the tragic events at our club one iota.

Like yourself, I have been frustrated by the denial and the apparent willingness of some to do mental somersaults in order to be grateful to Venky's. I have also smarted at some people's unwillingness to face the dumbing down.

But the uncomfortable fact is that all our hopes and dreams are entirely at the whim of distant, disengaged Indian chicken people, who probably couldn't name a single one of our players.

To blame fans, who are actually the victims of this tyranny and to call them complicit is taking it too far. Also, I think it is actually contributing to the division, which merely aids the carpetbaggers' agenda.

I suspect, like me, you started supporting in an era when we were a top team with the likes of England, Pickering, Dougie etc thrilling us week after week.  The crown jewels then had to be sold to keep the economic wolf from the door and the slide into Division Three seemed inevitable.  I remember Jim Smith being distraught that he couldn't sign Geoff Hutt, a full-back who'd been on loan but a fee of £9,000 was simply too much to make the signing permanent.  

The key difference then, of course, was that the guardians of the purse strings - the likes of Bill Bancroft, David Brown and Bill Fox were Rovers men through and through.  Although we, as supporters, gave them stick from time to time because of the lack of spending, we also knew that they were working miracles to keep the club afloat.

Today, we have owners on the other side of the world who are totally remote from the club and have been unable to stem a decade of decline.  Sadly, we are totally dependent on an ownership model where one or more individuals bankroll the club.  Jack Walker tried to make it self sufficient - the academy was to play a large role in that - but it proved impossible at a time when we were in a far better position than now.

With the present owners seemingly happy to continue bankrolling the club I think it's understandable why supporters are willing to take the cash to keep things going - even if reluctantly.

We may not be Bury but there are any number of 'Big' name businesses at the moment that are going to the wall. 

[chaddyrovers]

15 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He did very well to get us promoted at the first attempt. That was 2 seasons ago now. Nobody wants him out based on that. Last season we solidified. Now the question is, can we progress? Can we push on? 60 points last year, 60 points now with nothing to play for. Need half a team going into next season. Neither big money signing has shown any signs of being a success. Seem to be in a tactical muddle. You can understand the doubts!

60 points this season and Dack out injured since Christmas time. 

Yes we need a few signings but Mowbray would have knew this from last Summer in terms of 3 loan players and the 2 players of Graham and Downing. So we should know who we want to bring in depending on budget we have. 

No the signing of Brereton hasn't work and its disappointed. Gallagher for me, I think he had some good games but nowhere near enough and he overall disappointed. 

15 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

And I dont think hes played up front since lockdown. False 9s and Armstrong back stuck out wide. Has it worked? 10 points in the last 11 say maybe not.

I don't like Armstrong out wide even in 4-3-3 formation. Yes in a couple of games but not enough since we return from lockdown

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

60 points this season and Dack out injured since Christmas time. 

Yes we need a few signings but Mowbray would have knew this from last Summer in terms of 3 loan players and the 2 players of Graham and Downing. So we should know who we want to bring in depending on budget we have. 

No the signing of Brereton hasn't work and its disappointed. Gallagher for me, I think he had some good games but nowhere near enough and he overall disappointed. 

I don't like Armstrong out wide even in 4-3-3 formation. Yes in a couple of games but not enough since we return from lockdown

Suspect that Armsteong wide might be here to stay. In a "false 9 and 2 wide strikers" formation which he seems keen to adopt neither Armstrong or Dack can play in their natural positions.

At least the fact that Dack has missed half a season (in which we werent in the top 6 prior to or of course following) gives him a clean slate seemingly, ignoring the inability of his 12m strike duo to help bridge the gap.

[chaddyrovers]

20 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

No, that is his current job. I asked about his last job. 

You are judging Keane on his previous job - so surely you would have said we shouldnt touch TM judging on his performance at his last couple of clubs?

Keane last manager job was 7 years ago. So why haven't any Championship, League 1 or league 2 appoint him if he is thats good as a manager. 

For me, Keane isn't a manager but a bully and someone who wouldn't create any sort of team morale or spirit. Look at comments from Ireland players from his time there number 2. 

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Suspect that Armsteong wide might be here to stay. In a "false 9 and 2 wide strikers" formation which he seems keen to adopt neither Armstrong or Dack can play in their natural positions.

At least the fact that Dack has missed half a season (in which we werent in the top 6 prior to or of course following) gives him a clean slate seemingly, ignoring the inability of his 12m strike duo to help bridge the gap.

Neither Brereton or Gallagher play the Dack role and do what he does. Simple as. Holtby did it at Sheff Wednesday away. Armstrong and Holtby partnership worked so well that game

We will how we set up when Dack return and is still here. 

[Gav]

Everyone talks about this £12m like it should have propelled us to the Premiership had it been spent better.

Part of it was funded by Raya, so it was actually £9m, spent in isolation seasons apart, chump change in the grand scheme of things.

Could it have been spent better, on the face of it absolutely, but its not the reason to sack the manager for me.

[Leonard Venkhater]

17 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

I suspect, like me, you started supporting in an era when we were a top team with the likes of England, Pickering, Dougie etc thrilling us week after week.  The crown jewels then had to be sold to keep the economic wolf from the door and the slide into Division Three seemed inevitable.  I remember Jim Smith being distraught that he couldn't sign Geoff Hutt, a full-back who'd been on loan but a fee of £9,000 was simply too much to make the signing permanent.  

The key difference then, of course, was that the guardians of the purse strings - the likes of Bill Bancroft, David Brown and Bill Fox were Rovers men through and through.  Although we, as supporters, gave them stick from time to time because of the lack of spending, we also knew that they were working miracles to keep the club afloat.

Today, we have owners on the other side of the world who are totally remote from the club and have been unable to stem a decade of decline.  Sadly, we are totally dependent on an ownership model where one or more individuals bankroll the club.  Jack Walker tried to make it self sufficient - the academy was to play a large role in that - but it proved impossible at a time when we were in a far better position than now.

With the present owners seemingly happy to continue bankrolling the club I think it's understandable why supporters are willing to take the cash to keep things going - even if reluctantly.

We may not be Bury but there are any number of 'Big' name businesses at the moment that are going to the wall. 

If only, Parson. I started late. We were relegated in my second proper season. Even in the previous season, we crashed and burned after selling Keith Newton, but I was hooked. I have grieved for the loss of many star players, since then too.

The difference was that I believed that Bancroft, Keighley, Brown, Fox etc had the interests of the club at heart

I remain disgusted by what has been allowed to happen to our club. This is the longest malaise in all my Rovers time. 10 years of (almost entirely)no hope managers minus the appropriate CV's and serious unease about the reasons behind too many signings!

Sometimes, I even catch myself thinking it would be better if the Raos went now and brought the moment to a crisis sooner, so we could start building a proper club again. The alternative seems to be remaining with the sword of Damacles hanging over us.

Death by a thousand shite transfer windows!

[Mattyblue]

The fact we ‘sold the goalie’ to help buy Sam Gallagher doesn’t exactly make it better...

Edited July 17, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Gav]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

The fact we ‘sold the goalie’ to help buy Sam Gallagher doesn’t exactly make it better...

But it does show that the money is insignificant by today's standards, but that doesn't excuse it being seemingly spent badly.