Tony Mowbray Discussion

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

60 points this season and Dack out injured since Christmas time. 

Yes we need a few signings but Mowbray would have knew this from last Summer in terms of 3 loan players and the 2 players of Graham and Downing. So we should know who we want to bring in depending on budget we have. 

No the signing of Brereton hasn't work and its disappointed. Gallagher for me, I think he had some good games but nowhere near enough and he overall disappointed. 

I don't like Armstrong out wide even in 4-3-3 formation. Yes in a couple of games but not enough since we return from lockdown

Suspect that Armsteong wide might be here to stay. In a "false 9 and 2 wide strikers" formation which he seems keen to adopt neither Armstrong or Dack can play in their natural positions.

At least the fact that Dack has missed half a season (in which we werent in the top 6 prior to or of course following) gives him a clean slate seemingly, ignoring the inability of his 12m strike duo to help bridge the gap.

[chaddyrovers]

20 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

No, that is his current job. I asked about his last job. 

You are judging Keane on his previous job - so surely you would have said we shouldnt touch TM judging on his performance at his last couple of clubs?

Keane last manager job was 7 years ago. So why haven't any Championship, League 1 or league 2 appoint him if he is thats good as a manager. 

For me, Keane isn't a manager but a bully and someone who wouldn't create any sort of team morale or spirit. Look at comments from Ireland players from his time there number 2. 

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Suspect that Armsteong wide might be here to stay. In a "false 9 and 2 wide strikers" formation which he seems keen to adopt neither Armstrong or Dack can play in their natural positions.

At least the fact that Dack has missed half a season (in which we werent in the top 6 prior to or of course following) gives him a clean slate seemingly, ignoring the inability of his 12m strike duo to help bridge the gap.

Neither Brereton or Gallagher play the Dack role and do what he does. Simple as. Holtby did it at Sheff Wednesday away. Armstrong and Holtby partnership worked so well that game

We will how we set up when Dack return and is still here. 

[Gav]

Everyone talks about this £12m like it should have propelled us to the Premiership had it been spent better.

Part of it was funded by Raya, so it was actually £9m, spent in isolation seasons apart, chump change in the grand scheme of things.

Could it have been spent better, on the face of it absolutely, but its not the reason to sack the manager for me.

[Leonard Venkhater]

17 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

I suspect, like me, you started supporting in an era when we were a top team with the likes of England, Pickering, Dougie etc thrilling us week after week.  The crown jewels then had to be sold to keep the economic wolf from the door and the slide into Division Three seemed inevitable.  I remember Jim Smith being distraught that he couldn't sign Geoff Hutt, a full-back who'd been on loan but a fee of £9,000 was simply too much to make the signing permanent.  

The key difference then, of course, was that the guardians of the purse strings - the likes of Bill Bancroft, David Brown and Bill Fox were Rovers men through and through.  Although we, as supporters, gave them stick from time to time because of the lack of spending, we also knew that they were working miracles to keep the club afloat.

Today, we have owners on the other side of the world who are totally remote from the club and have been unable to stem a decade of decline.  Sadly, we are totally dependent on an ownership model where one or more individuals bankroll the club.  Jack Walker tried to make it self sufficient - the academy was to play a large role in that - but it proved impossible at a time when we were in a far better position than now.

With the present owners seemingly happy to continue bankrolling the club I think it's understandable why supporters are willing to take the cash to keep things going - even if reluctantly.

We may not be Bury but there are any number of 'Big' name businesses at the moment that are going to the wall. 

If only, Parson. I started late. We were relegated in my second proper season. Even in the previous season, we crashed and burned after selling Keith Newton, but I was hooked. I have grieved for the loss of many star players, since then too.

The difference was that I believed that Bancroft, Keighley, Brown, Fox etc had the interests of the club at heart

I remain disgusted by what has been allowed to happen to our club. This is the longest malaise in all my Rovers time. 10 years of (almost entirely)no hope managers minus the appropriate CV's and serious unease about the reasons behind too many signings!

Sometimes, I even catch myself thinking it would be better if the Raos went now and brought the moment to a crisis sooner, so we could start building a proper club again. The alternative seems to be remaining with the sword of Damacles hanging over us.

Death by a thousand shite transfer windows!

[Mattyblue]

The fact we ‘sold the goalie’ to help buy Sam Gallagher doesn’t exactly make it better...

Edited July 17, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Gav]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

The fact we ‘sold the goalie’ to help buy Sam Gallagher doesn’t exactly make it better...

But it does show that the money is insignificant by today's standards, but that doesn't excuse it being seemingly spent badly.

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Keane last manager job was 7 years ago. So why haven't any Championship, League 1 or league 2 appoint him if he is thats good as a manager. 

For me, Keane isn't a manager but a bully and someone who wouldn't create any sort of team morale or spirit. Look at comments from Ireland players from his time there number 2. 

Neither Brereton or Gallagher play the Dack role and do what he does. Simple as. Holtby did it at Sheff Wednesday away. Armstrong and Holtby partnership worked so well that game

We will how we set up when Dack return and is still here. 

One game and never repeated post lockdown.

No one said either has to take his exact role. But is it unrealistic to expect 12m worth of forwards to at least partially make up the chunk of goals that we are lacking post Dack injury? Is it heck and you know it.

Just now, Gav said:

Everyone talks about this £12m like it should have propelled us to the Premiership had it been spent better.

Part of it was funded by Raya, so it was actually £9m, spent in isolation seasons apart, chump change in the grand scheme of things.

Could it have been spent better, on the face of it absolutely, but its not the reason to sack the manager for me.

Thats untrue, and a stretch youve made yourself. From one extreme to another. And considering that after spending net 9m that we have no goalkeeper but 2 forwards neither of who have contributed anything really, we would have been better off had none of those 3 transactions taken place. Which no matter how much its dismissed or underplayed, should have at least instigated some sort of progress or improvement had it been spent reasonably. 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

One game and never repeated post lockdown.

No one said either has to take his exact role. But is it unrealistic to expect 12m worth of forwards to at least partially make up the chunk of goals that we are lacking post Dack injury? Is it heck and you know it.

Have we played that way since? Armstrong ripped that Sheff Wednesday defence apart. Very good to see. 

 

Just now, roversfan99 said:

 

Thats untrue, and a stretch youve made yourself. From one extreme to another. And considering that after spending net 9m that we have no goalkeeper but 2 forwards neither of who have contributed anything really, we would have been better off had none of those 3 transactions taken place. Which no matter how much its dismissed or underplayed, should have at least instigated some sort of progress or improvement had it been spent reasonably. 

Do we know exactly how much we got for Raya? 

 

[Mattyblue]

Indeed Gav, end of the day it comes down to the ‘model’ - young English forwards increase in value exponentially if they do the business. But it’s a very risky business as football is littered with promising 18 year olds that never kick on - BB is looking like he will fall into that catergory.

Therefore price and value is key, risk v reward - initial  £1.7m for AA, great deal as it’s a relatively low cost and he was already a goalscorer, big chance of a profit. Low risk.

£7m for BB, highly risky for a club of our means and big money for a teenager with very little behind him, always going to be difficult to profit on. And potentially leaving the club financially hamstrung.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Have we played that way since? Armstrong ripped that Sheff Wednesday defence apart. Very good to see. 

 

Do we know exactly how much we got for Raya? 

 

I think there might be a policy of keeping fees under wraps. I often wonder how much of a sell-on clause we included for the likes of Cairney and King...

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Have we played that way since? Armstrong ripped that Sheff Wednesday defence apart. Very good to see. 

 

Do we know exactly how much we got for Raya? 

 

Not much, weve been playing this stupid false 9 and wide strikers nonsense recently.

And stop being pedantic, you are keen to quote supposed transfer fees and wage figures when it suits. Im sure the deal was reported at around 3m.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

I think there might be a policy of keeping fees under wraps. I often wonder how much of a sell-on clause we included for the likes of Cairney and King...

If King does leave Bournemouth as reported hopefully we have a good sell on clause in there 

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Not much, weve been playing this stupid false 9 and wide strikers nonsense recently.

And stop being pedantic, you are keen to quote supposed transfer fees and wage figures when it suits. Im sure the deal was reported at around 3m.

I asked a perfect and reasonable question about how much we got for Raya to Brentford. So no pedantic at all!!!!!

 

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Leeds have to sell Jansson and their head coach Bielsa accept that last season. But he sign on loan Ben White. 

 

Did they? 

I didn't. In fact I wanted him moving from wing to playing up front cos IMO he is our best striker and we need to use his pace and movement there

I would say that's excellent management then. Promoted and money in the bank. When our best centre back goes in the window I hope Mowbray can find a better replacement cheap.

[Gav]

34 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Indeed Gav, end of the day it comes down to the ‘model’ - young English forwards increase in value exponentially if they do the business. But it’s a very risky business as football is littered with promising 18 year olds that never kick on - BB is looking like he will fall into that catergory.

Therefore price and value is key, risk v reward - initial  £1.7m for AA, great deal as it’s a relatively low cost and he was already a goalscorer, big chance of a profit. Low risk.

£7m for BB, highly risky for a club of our means and big money for a teenager with very little behind him, always going to be difficult to profit on. And potentially leaving the club financially hamstrung.

The buck ultimately stops with the manager, but the purchase of BB didn't feel right then and doesn't feel right now. 

Gallagher is a replacement for Graham, that makes sense to me, but BB, I'm not sure whats gone on there...

[AllRoverAsia]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18588364.mowbray-happy-lead-rovers-next-phase-journey/

FaceBook having an orgasm

[onlyoneDuff]

Someone posted earlier that Mowbray's first job here was promotion from league one...was he not brought in to keep us up, of which he failed...the revisionist history continues...he's just not good enough 

[AllRoverAsia]

9 minutes ago, onlyoneDuff said:

Someone posted earlier that Mowbray's first job here was promotion from league one...was he not brought in to keep us up, of which he failed...the revisionist history continues...he's just not good enough 

That tactic is often used, Fortunately, some of us, even those of us in advanced years, have memory capacity greater than a goldfish

Edited July 17, 2020 by AllRoverAsia

[rigger]

2 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

If only, Parson. I started late. We were relegated in my second proper season. Even in the previous season, we crashed and burned after selling Keith Newton, but I was hooked. I have grieved for the loss of many star players, since then too.

The difference was that I believed that Bancroft, Keighley, Brown, Fox etc had the interests of the club at heart

I remain disgusted by what has been allowed to happen to our club. This is the longest malaise in all my Rovers time. 10 years of (almost entirely)no hope managers minus the appropriate CV's and serious unease about the reasons behind too many signings!

Sometimes, I even catch myself thinking it would be better if the Raos went now and brought the moment to a crisis sooner, so we could start building a proper club again. The alternative seems to be remaining with the sword of Damacles hanging over us.

Death by a thousand shite transfer windows!

I remember being one of “The faithful few” in the 70s, but I was never as pissed off with the Rovers as I am now.

[tomphil]

19 minutes ago, rigger said:

I remember being one of “The faithful few” in the 70s, but I was never as pissed off with the Rovers as I am now.

Its been a harrowing ten years for genuine fans that's for sure and at times it's the anger, adrenaline at the injustice of it that fires the passion over the rubbish football.  Right now though its just difficult to bother about we are every the bit the water treader that seems just set up like an old boys club.

As long as the manager is a nice guy he's safe all because what went before and in turn as long as he looks after his mates the whole thing will plod on.  Nobody gets held accountable for anything and the fans are the villians every time there's an air of restlessness.

A plonker on twitter this afternoon told me Walton is a good keeper we are lucky Mowbray got him and the manager himself should have the job for life. And to top it all Brereton is a good investment he'll come good.

Unbelievable mentality the slightest bit of ambition is met with derision, oi leave things as they are we are doomed if it changes. I sometimes wonder what some of these lot are like in real life they seem fans of the manager rather than the club.

[Leonard Venkhater]

30 minutes ago, rigger said:

I remember being one of “The faithful few” in the 70s, but I was never as pissed off with the Rovers as I am now.

I probably stood next to you!

[Leonard Venkhater]

 

 

 

 

 

4

Just now, tomphil said:

Its been a harrowing ten years for genuine fans that's for sure and at times it's the anger, adrenaline at the injustice of it that fires the passion over the rubbish football.  Right now though its just difficult to bother about we are every the bit the water treader that seems just set up like an old boys club.

As long as the manager is a nice guy he's safe all because what went before and in turn as long as he looks after his mates the whole thing will plod on.  Nobody gets held accountable for anything and the fans are the villians every time there's an air of restlessness.

A plonker on twitter this afternoon told me Walton is a good keeper we are lucky Mowbray got him and the manager himself should have the job for life. And to top it all Brereton is a good investment he'll come good.

Unbelievable mentality the slightest bit of ambition is met with derision, oi leave things as they are we are doomed if it changes. I sometimes wonder what some of these lot are like in real life they seem fans of the manager rather than the club.

That first sentence speaks to my life!

[simongarnerisgod]

21 minutes ago, rigger said:

I remember being one of “The faithful few” in the 70s, but I was never as pissed off with the Rovers as I am now.

i grew up in the kendall/saxton era,although there were some lean times it was never boring which is where i am with rovers now,completely bored of the frightened way we approach games,the f*****g false 9 garbage and mowbrays crap tactics,if you mentioned the phrase " are we playing a false no 9" to bobby saxton i think he`d likely put you through the dressing room partition?

[Norbert Rassragr]

I still think he should go, and we need to either go for it with a manager like Hughton, or if we're going to try and survive a financial starvation diet, get Mark Robins or take a bit of a punt on Ainsworth. Sticking with Mowbray is not really doing either, just plodding along with no direction, being happy with a slow fade into obscurity.

[Hasta]

We had a squad that should have been a middle of the road championship team in 2017. Mowbray has turned it into another middle of the road championship team.

He's not done a bad job because he's got us back to where we actually should have been with our team from when he took over. However he hasn't took us any further forward.

Average. Stability.

How do we move forward?

If we can have a go at spending another £12 million without weakening the existing squad that that will help up move forward. However FFP doesn't allow this without moving on Dack / Lenihan/Travis,  and after last summer I don't really trust Mowbray to bring in the right replacements.

I'm also nervous we could end up with Coyle Mk II and things could go drastically worse.

However, if you don't want fans to drift away you have to have realistic plans to push on further, and at this crossroad that means gambling on a change of manager in my opinion. 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Hasta

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

The buck ultimately stops with the manager, but the purchase of BB didn't feel right then and doesn't feel right now. 

Gallagher is a replacement for Graham, that makes sense to me, but BB, I'm not sure whats gone on there...

Nothing I saw in Gallagher's first spell here would lead me to think he could be Danny Graham mk 2.