Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Mattyblue]

In my opinion Mulgrew is past it and shouldn’t have been given a new deal, however that doesn’t mean the captain leaving in circumstances like that hasn’t upset the camp.

[Mercer]

9 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

In my opinion Mulgrew is past it and shouldn’t have been given a new deal, however that doesn’t mean the captain leaving in circumstances like that hasn’t upset the camp.

Think was all done a tad unceremoniously.

The manner of Charlie's exit would resonate in the wider dressing room.

Bottom line is you simply don't treat your personnel in such a fashion, least of all your leader in the dressing room.

Think Mowbray may well have lost the dressing room now and you don't get spilt milk back in the bottle!

Edited August 15, 2019 by Mercer

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

In my opinion Mulgrew is past it and shouldn’t have been given a new deal, however that doesn’t mean the captain leaving in circumstances like that hasn’t upset the camp.

Thanks for the reply Matty. 

My view is he should have got rid sooner. We need younger experience back around 27 or 28 to replace him. I think Tosin will be good signing but he is still young. 

Mowbray has his squad now. Time for him to deliver and cant have any excuses now. He made his signings. I wouldnt make some of these signings he did. My 1st 2 signings would have been experience centre back and keeper. 

[Stuart]

27 minutes ago, Eddie said:

For all of this talk about how he has lost the dressing room and that the players don't like him, it is maybe worth giving this a read:

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stewart-downing-interview-summer-options-16753051

Players are obviously going to say nice things, but Downing specifically mentions how he impressed them in their first meeting and how Mowbray has created a buzz around the place - all of this in an interview in which the focus is really his time at Boro, their prospects, and his return. 

Worth a thought. 

Players are inherently dishonest when talking about managers and other players. The football family looks after its own.

Heard anything bad from anyone? Nuttall? Mulgrew?

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Mercer said:

 

Think Mowbray may well have lost the dressing room now and you don't get spilt milk back in the bottle!

I very doubt this. Maybe one or 2 players but most will get on with it. 

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

Mowbray arrived in Jan. 2017 when we were bottom of the  Championship.

32 months later, we are bottom of the Championship again.

During this time, Venky's have issued approx £48million of shares (an average of £1.5million/month) through VLL in order to keep the ship afloat !!!

There will come a tipping point for both Mowbray and, sadly, our club.

Sobering thoughts.

When you put it like that it is a sobering thought and yes it's early season i;m convinced it'll turn around but still he's supposed to be sorting the club and moving it forwards.  Behind the scenes i've no doubt he has big time but on the pitch and the unbalanced recruitment policy points to a recession at the moment yet a fortune has been spent.

On the Mulgrew issue i think it's clear why he's turned to Bennett, an attempt to stop the worms turning.

Edited August 14, 2019 by tomphil

[PeteJD13]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I very doubt this. Maybe one or 2 players but most will get on with it. 

We will know Saturday if its another really lacklustre performance then i'd suggest he's lost the majority, conversely if there is a reaction then chaddy is right

[tomphil]

'Whilst big skip is away'  -- part of Bennetts tweet in regards to the captaincy.

Just away ?  Interesting choice of words ?

Edited August 14, 2019 by tomphil

[DE.]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I very doubt this. Maybe one or 2 players but most will get on with it. 

I think you're right in that most of the players aren't going to be actively playing with the mindset of "screw the manager, we're going to get him the sack", but if morale is low then we will certainly see poorer performances with a lot less confidence. I think we've already seen in the likes of Nyambe and Brereton that their confidence has been shattered by Mowbray's appalling management of both (imo) and even the likes of Travis and Rothwell seem to be losing their spark. It's a situation then can be at least temporarily resolved with victories, but the more we lose the worse it's going to get and the harder it is going to be to climb out of the pit.

[47er]

6 hours ago, arbitro said:

Well I didn't know he was a bully. I met him several times and had a meal with him once and he was absolutely fine. Public and private persona are completely different you know.

He used to bully the refs!!!

[47er]

5 hours ago, philipl said:

It has unravelled quite remarkably.

He had the funds and the support to build a team which could give us an entertaining season at the very least. He had the opportunity to clear the decks of deadwood.

Three games into the Season, all we have is ??????

Football is a simple game. Mowbray has to go simple again picking a squad playing in their right positions as far as possible so he cannot get bashed for it.

Pick the best eleven you have got, don't over think the opposition and give the lads the tactics which will bring the best out of them. 

The last thing we or the players need are heroic brain waves..

Football is a simple game and the bottom line is---if you can't score and you can't defend you will be relegated.

[47er]

4 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

£48 million you assured us 32 months ago that they didn’t have.

Mowbray’s tipping point will undoubtedly come, as it does for all managers, but probably not because Madame thinks Brereton should be starting up front.

Personally I think he’s in a lot more danger from the bloated wage bill at the end of the window.

 

Its a results game and he's in danger because we are not winning. Ever thus. The owners are responsible for the debt, the manager for the points.

[47er]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

For all of this talk about how he has lost the dressing room and that the players don't like him, it is maybe worth giving this a read:

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stewart-downing-interview-summer-options-16753051

Players are obviously going to say nice things, but Downing specifically mentions how he impressed them in their first meeting and how Mowbray has created a buzz around the place - all of this in an interview in which the focus is really his time at Boro, their prospects, and his return. 

Worth a thought. 

Its worth a thought till you see them on the pitch.

[DeeCee]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

'Whilst big skip is away'  -- part of Bennetts tweet in regards to the captaincy.

Just away ?  Interesting choice of words ?

He may be (and I've no evidence to deny this) the consummate professional but to me his tweets always come across a little sycophantic.

[Paul]

9 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Don’t doubt it’s been a great camp for some time, however the Mulgrew situation, popular captain bundled out the door on deadline day, coupled with bad results is exactly the change of circumstances that can turn a dressing room.

I'm sorry to see Charlie leave but have felt for a while his time was up here. It's possible he will enjoy a new lease of life at Wigan. He wouldn't be the first player to experience this.

As for the circumstances of his departure? I don't know about these so can't comment. What I do feel is an entire squad does not turn on a manager overnight and over a single incident.

If Mowbray has lost the team, which I don't believe, this is something which will have built up over months.

I feel last season could have been much better and we seemed to lack the ability to push just that little bit further. That was last season. It counts for nothing now. What matters is Saturday and the next 44 games.

We've lost two matches, this is a long, long way from the crisis some would make it out to be.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Paul

[Paul]

I've now read the speculation surrounding Mulgrew's departure. Have we got any facts or figures on how many other clubs and players were involved in last minute deals?

Edited August 15, 2019 by Paul

[Mattyblue]

A fair few you’d imagine.

But this was an odd one, club captain who didn’t have a single rumour about him leaving all summer, indeed captained a side that is very short in defensive numbers leaves in double quick time on the afternoon of deadline day with no replacement. Obviously something went on that was not forseen.

Footballers are delicate flowers, the rapid removal of a very popular figure in the dressing room, coupled with months of poor results and an increasingly erratic manager could well change the dynamic. Or it may not bother them at all and it will be ‘the king is dead, long live the King’.

We’ll see how it pans out, but something seems amiss to me.

[Blue blood]

Didn't the Chelsea players tipping point come when he criticised the female doctor? Think she was in a relationship with Ivanovic (sp)? One incident may not lose the dressing room but it can push an unhappy one over the edge. 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Blue blood

[Mercer]

7 minutes ago, Paul said:

I've now read the speculation surrounding Mulgrew's departure. Have we got any facts or figures on how many other clubs and players were involved in last minute deals?

You always get last minute deals.

However, there seems something different about the Mulgrew departure:

• It's not as though some club stumped up an offer with a transfer fee we couldn't refuse
• It's not as though we were blessed with competent centre backs and could afford to let someone go
• Surely, Mowbray would have taken the captaincy away from Charlie if he wasn't in his short term plans
• I think it boils down to either, or both, of two issues.  1) There was a bust up and Mowbray wanted him out as he would be a clear threat to his authority.  2) We were desperate to save Charlie's wages and ancillary costs (eg employers' NI at about 13/14%) which I think would be a minimum of £1.25million   

Edited August 15, 2019 by Mercer

[arbitro]

7 hours ago, 47er said:

He used to bully the refs!!!

There are very few managers who don't to varying degrees. Two of the worst I ever came across were Souness and Hughes.

[tomphil]

Mowbray did say a while back he'd told a few they could leave if they sorted themselves out because they might not feature as much as they'd like.  Not sure he was aiming it at Mulgrew as a lot of things point to him being a main player again this season but going off the back end of last season perhaps Charlie bhoy had something in the pipeline just in case.

[JHRover]

There was more than just a whiff of foul play with the Mulgrew exit. Whatever your views of Mulgrew and his performances his exit, the timing and manner of it just doesn't sit right with me. It brings back unpleasant memories most notably Tom Cairney who was suddenly and unexpectedly ushered out the back door to a rival club who probably couldn't believe what we were doing.

Certainly not the behaviour of a well organised, happy club. 

Go through the transfer business on the final day of the window and the Mulgrew one sticks out like a sore thumb. Sending your captain out on loan to Wigan at that stage suggests something unhappy behind the scenes or alternatively extreme financial pressures and a desperation to raise funds from his wages.

Anyhow, Mowbray's talk of 'trying' for Harrison Reed and 'wanting a few' on deadline day then loaning two out and one in looks like a very poor joke. Especially now he's moaning about injuries.

[Eddie]

10 hours ago, Stuart said:

Players are inherently dishonest when talking about managers and other players. The football family looks after its own.

Heard anything bad from anyone? Nuttall? Mulgrew?

You can’t have it both ways.

’Mowbray rips into his players and it is wrong’ 

‘No one in football says anything bad about each other and that’s why the players are staying quiet’ 

[Mattyblue]

I hope he does rip into them at Brockhall and in the dressing room.

However young lads shouldn’t be singled out for criticism to the media.

[Paul]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

 

We’ll see how it pans out, but something seems amiss to me.

Yes we will see what happens and you may well be right about something being amiss. Yours is an opinion I would always take note of. As you know I take a three month break in the summer! ?

I do feel it's very early days to judge. I've only seen the Charlton game. When the added time went up my immediate reaction was "don't make me watch another six minutes of this."