Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, bboy said:

I believe his thinking of Buckley at RB was he'd be similar to JRC in that position

Why is he getting a free pass here.? His job was to defend and show the winger onto his left foot at all costs.  He didn't even try, his communication with his runner was non existent.  Someone claimed his part in the goal was great......I've only watched the Quest highlights but he never touched it 8 passes from the goal so I fail to see how he influenced it as some seem to suggest earlier.  Magnifying a couple of simple passes here and there as potentially world class etc...I just don't get it.

He doesn't score, his tackling is non existent, his work rate is lacking, his build seems small and lightweight, does he have a best position.? When is he going to play a full match and really grab the game by the scruff of the neck? Not my cup of tea.

[philipl]

I chalked two points dropped at Luton against Mowbray but wipe the slate clean with the Brentford performance.

Just wow.

The man management in getting that second half performance after all the hammer blows in the last 20 minutes of the first half was outstanding.

The players went 4-4-1 like they play it every day but both the formation and the personnel in the slots were alien to their normal roles.

He kept us in the game when Brentford could have run away with it then switched to offense in the 80th minute and caught them exhausted and depleted.

Also really liked his subs strategy.

He protected players already on yellows and had the confidence to protect Rothwell and Armstrong for their necessary exertions in the coming midweek.

Seriously impressed.

[tomphil]

It shouldn't be uncool to give him credit when it's due at all that's how you justify the constructive criticism.  All about balance.

End of the day though he is what he is there are times he gets it badly wrong and often that comes when he shouldn't really be fiddling with it at all. That puts it further into the spotlight but there are plenty times he gets in right and occasionally pulls off a masterstroke. Main thing is though these players obviously pull their tripe out for him when he gets them to. 

If we / they / he really want promotion then that effort has to be there every single game and they've shown it the past few weeks. There are still question marks about the selections and tactics which often seem to hinder the team despite the willingness.  That's something he has to get to grips with.

He has a big enough battle this season with injuries and officials though as well.

[JHRover]

On 05/12/2020 at 13:01, JoeH said:

I seem to remember a lot of people claiming Hughton would fire Forest into the Top 6, a few going as far to say that Hughton will easily finish above Mowbray with Rovers. Same sentiments towards Neil Warnock and his Boro side. We're currently ahead of both and one of which is in a serious relegation dog fight! 

I think it is a bit early for that sort of talk. Mowbray is doing well at the moment but he has had time and resources here that neither Warnock or Hughton have had close to at their current clubs.

Warnock has turned Boro from relegation candidates to play off chasers in one transfer window without spending much.

Hughton been at Forest a matter of a couple of months and has inherited a shambles. If he is given time he will have Forest up there but for now they're a mess and need to get enough together to survive. 

If I was a gambling man I'd put money on either Forest or Boro getting in the play-offs before Rovers do.

[dallydally]

18 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Why is he getting a free pass here.? His job was to defend and show the winger onto his left foot at all costs.  He didn't even try, his communication with his runner was non existent.  Someone claimed his part in the goal was great......I've only watched the Quest highlights but he never touched it 8 passes from the goal so I fail to see how he influenced it as some seem to suggest earlier.  Magnifying a couple of simple passes here and there as potentially world class etc...I just don't get it.

He doesn't score, his tackling is non existent, his work rate is lacking, his build seems small and lightweight, does he have a best position.? When is he going to play a full match and really grab the game by the scruff of the neck? Not my cup of tea.

Totally agree. Couldn't have put it better myself

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

20 hours ago, bboy said:

It's almost uncool to congratulate TM but he certainly deserved it today.

He managed that 2nd half very well. I believe his thinking of Buckley at RB was he'd be similar to JRC in that position and out of the 4 we had at the back at the time could offer the long pass out. 

However his instant reaction to tactics following Brentford's final subs decided our game. 

Mowbray said the plan was to hang in until the 80 minute mark and then up the intensity and go for it. Worked a treat to be fair.

On Buckley he said that he always plays RB in training matches on a Friday. 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

18 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Why is he getting a free pass here.? His job was to defend and show the winger onto his left foot at all costs.  He didn't even try, his communication with his runner was non existent.  Someone claimed his part in the goal was great......I've only watched the Quest highlights but he never touched it 8 passes from the goal so I fail to see how he influenced it as some seem to suggest earlier.  Magnifying a couple of simple passes here and there as potentially world class etc...I just don't get it.

He doesn't score, his tackling is non existent, his work rate is lacking, his build seems small and lightweight, does he have a best position.? When is he going to play a full match and really grab the game by the scruff of the neck? Not my cup of tea.

Your hatred on Buckley is becoming a little too obsessional.  I'll be honest, it's a bit weird. 

Buckley is a talented lad who came on for a team with 10 men in a position he's probably never played at senior level. The defending for the goal was really poor but there were 3 players responsible for that. AA who lost the runner, Buckley for going with the runner that AA had lost when he should have shown Canos down the outside, and Rothwell for his pitiful attempt to stop Canos. 

Buckley needs time to develop physically and become a permanent fixture in the team. His passing and vision are at times exceptional. A rare ability. And he's a lot better than that lad you said had more ability than him who is currently on the subs bench in the Spanish Conference North. 

[Oldgregg86]

11 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Your hatred on Buckley is becoming a little too obsessional.  I'll be honest, it's a bit weird. 

Buckley is a talented lad who came on for a team with 10 men in a position he's probably never played at senior level. The defending for the goal was really poor but there were 3 players responsible for that. AA who lost the runner, Buckley for going with the runner that AA had lost when he should have shown Canos down the outside, and Rothwell for his pitiful attempt to stop Canos. 

Buckley needs time to develop physically and become a permanent fixture in the team. His passing and vision are at times exceptional. A rare ability. And he's a lot better than that lad you said had more ability than him who is currently on the subs bench in the Spanish Conference North. 

Well said . Buckley is a talent and will come good. I really urge patience with him from supporters . He will grow, fill out and gain more confidence as time goes on. We have a good squad of players , no need to rush his development. It will happen naturally and when it does we will have a player 

[Ulrich]

On 05/12/2020 at 07:41, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

Tony was on fire in the LT yesterday:

"I like Dan Pike, he's an earthy footballer.." 

Wonderful stuff 

So he's home-grown? 

[Hasta]

23 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I agree, I'm not his biggest fan but I thought he did well today. It's ok people moaning about Buckley having to go to right back but what were our other options ? Maybe Davenport could have played there but I wouldn't have fancied Johnson there, or Trybull for that matter. Downing would have been on the wrong side. Maybe drop Johnson back to centre half and keep Nyambe at right back.

I'd have put Downing there. It too basic to think that any right footer would be preferable.

Full back is often a position which is underestimated. Positioning, holding the line, tackling, knowing when to show somebody inside or out, cutting out crosses, dealing with high balls coming in to the back post. All attributes which a full back learns and understands. I'd rather have a player in that position that understands the role and knows how to defend rather than one who might be able to play a silky forward ball down the line just cos he has a right foot.

[Exiled in Toronto]

1 hour ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Your hatred on Buckley is becoming a little too obsessional.  I'll be honest, it's a bit weird. 

Buckley is a talented lad who came on for a team with 10 men in a position he's probably never played at senior level. The defending for the goal was really poor but there were 3 players responsible for that. AA who lost the runner, Buckley for going with the runner that AA had lost when he should have shown Canos down the outside, and Rothwell for his pitiful attempt to stop Canos. 

Buckley needs time to develop physically and become a permanent fixture in the team. His passing and vision are at times exceptional. A rare ability. And he's a lot better than that lad you said had more ability than him who is currently on the subs bench in the Spanish Conference North. 

I also agree. Because Armstrong didn’t track the overlapping Henry, it was 2-on-1 for Buckley, so he was done either way. It just so happened the winger hit a screamer into the top corner. Equally plausible had Buckley showed him outside the winger would have played Henry in and someone tapped it in.

[MarkBRFC]

On 06/12/2020 at 00:55, Sparks Rover said:

Why is he getting a free pass here.? His job was to defend and show the winger onto his left foot at all costs.  He didn't even try, his communication with his runner was non existent.  Someone claimed his part in the goal was great......I've only watched the Quest highlights but he never touched it 8 passes from the goal so I fail to see how he influenced it as some seem to suggest earlier.  Magnifying a couple of simple passes here and there as potentially world class etc...I just don't get it.

He doesn't score, his tackling is non existent, his work rate is lacking, his build seems small and lightweight, does he have a best position.? When is he going to play a full match and really grab the game by the scruff of the neck? Not my cup of tea.

I do agree with some of this, but I think Buckley obviously does have some talent.

I think he will be similar to Paul Gallagher in that he won't really make it here, but will have a decent career at league one/championship level and probably won't become a regular starter anywhere until he is 26/27.

[AllRoverAsia]

On 06/12/2020 at 07:55, Sparks Rover said:

Why is he getting a free pass here.? His job was to defend and show the winger onto his left foot at all costs.  He didn't even try, his communication with his runner was non existent.  Someone claimed his part in the goal was great......I've only watched the Quest highlights but he never touched it 8 passes from the goal so I fail to see how he influenced it as some seem to suggest earlier.  Magnifying a couple of simple passes here and there as potentially world class etc...I just don't get it.

He doesn't score, his tackling is non existent, his work rate is lacking, his build seems small and lightweight, does he have a best position.? When is he going to play a full match and really grab the game by the scruff of the neck? Not my cup of tea.

On the Canos goal Armstrong and Gallagher had by that time switched sides.

Armstrong was AWOL as Brentford mounted that attack and Buckley exposed. Look at it again and Armstrong's token gesture to defensive duties.

Buckley left totally exposed to a fast, skilful twat.

However in the bigger picture Buckley is not the answer at RB but a temporary in match fix. 

** Edit: Just noticed that Exiled in Toronto has already covered this

Edited December 7, 2020 by AllRoverAsia

[Guest]

17 hours ago, JHRover said:

Hughton been at Forest a matter of a couple of months and has inherited a shambles. If he is given time he will have Forest up there but for now they're a mess and need to get enough together to survive. 

If I was a gambling man I'd put money on either Forest or Boro getting in the play-offs before Rovers do.

That's a completely different hypothetical though. What was put forward when Hughton got to Forest was that they'd reach the play-offs this year and easily finish above Rovers. Now we're opening that up to reaching the play-offs before Rovers do across any season.

I think people overestimated Hughton and they continue to underestimate Tony Mowbray. If I was a Preston fan, I'd be looking at Mowbray and what he's done with Rovers this year, and I'd be thinking, yeah he's a decent manager. Been promoted from this league before, experience across loads of divisions. 

It's the bias of what we don't have. Hughton looked attractive because he's something different. But his football is boring & defensive, and it doesn't reap rewards unless managing a top side.

[Admiral Nelsen]

30 minutes ago, JoeH said:

That's a completely different hypothetical though. What was put forward when Hughton got to Forest was that they'd reach the play-offs this year and easily finish above Rovers. Now we're opening that up to reaching the play-offs before Rovers do across any season.

I think people overestimated Hughton and they continue to underestimate Tony Mowbray. If I was a Preston fan, I'd be looking at Mowbray and what he's done with Rovers this year, and I'd be thinking, yeah he's a decent manager. Been promoted from this league before, experience across loads of divisions. 

It's the bias of what we don't have. Hughton looked attractive because he's something different. But his football is boring & defensive, and it doesn't reap rewards unless managing a top side.

 

Completely with you on Mowbray. I'm one of those sad people who even looks at message boards for other clubs when they play Rovers, and it's amazing how often fans of other clubs have compared Mowbray favourably to their own manager. 

I disagree about overestimating Hughton though. I think we always deal with uncertainty when it comes to football managers - there's always the possibility that an otherwise good manager might not work out at a certain club at a certain time - but Hughton's record at this level is pretty much unblemished. It's probably too late for Forest to think about the top 6 even with a fantastic run, but I'm supremely confident that he'll get them safe and sound well before the season's close, and next season they'll be looking upwards. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

I disagree about overestimating Hughton though. I think we always deal with uncertainty when it comes to football managers - there's always the possibility that an otherwise good manager might not work out at a certain club at a certain time - but Hughton's record at this level is pretty much unblemished. It's probably too late for Forest to think about the top 6 even with a fantastic run, but I'm supremely confident that he'll get them safe and sound well before the season's close, and next season they'll be looking upwards. 

I'm sure he will keep them up. I think he's done well at previous clubs, but often does well when he's managing one of the divisions best teams.

[Admiral Nelsen]

Just now, JoeH said:

I'm sure he will keep them up. I think he's done well at previous clubs, but often does well when he's managing one of the divisions best teams.

True enough, but he did well at Birmingham when it was a madhouse and not particularly well resourced. No guarantees that he'll do similar at Forest of course, but personally I think the smart money will be them finishing mid-table then competing for the top six next season.

[roversfan99]

58 minutes ago, JoeH said:

That's a completely different hypothetical though. What was put forward when Hughton got to Forest was that they'd reach the play-offs this year and easily finish above Rovers. Now we're opening that up to reaching the play-offs before Rovers do across any season.

I think people overestimated Hughton and they continue to underestimate Tony Mowbray. If I was a Preston fan, I'd be looking at Mowbray and what he's done with Rovers this year, and I'd be thinking, yeah he's a decent manager. Been promoted from this league before, experience across loads of divisions. 

It's the bias of what we don't have. Hughton looked attractive because he's something different. But his football is boring & defensive, and it doesn't reap rewards unless managing a top side.

The main doubt with Mowbray yet also the reason that he splits people is because we are always within the middle ground, we peak a couple of points outside the play offs having never at any stage demonstrated that we are genuine contenders, its always "when we have a fully fit squad" or "once we put a run of wins together." Conversely, we never seem to fall away enough to warrant a crisis button being pressed, and of course we havent got that benchmark of previously having been in the top 6 which would create a feeling of regression and having gone backwards. So he certainly isnt a bad manager, we are in a middle ground (which cannot last forever) whereby we are unsure whether that run of wins to propel us into the top 6 will ever come or indeed whether it will just fall into stagnation.

I am unsure as to why you have mentioned Preston, but their fans want their manager out now when he has gone one further (with far less money) and actually have spent quite a few weeks in the top 6 in the last couple of years. They have actually been genuine contenders spending time in the top 6, something that always has been beyond us and something that we have to prove that we can do. Obviously the main difference is that their current position shows that they have gone backwards slightly but again, I am unsure as to the relevance of mentioning Preston in your argument of Hughton/Warnock v Mowbray.

Regarding Hughton's past record, he took over Brighton mid way through a season in which they finished 20th and scored 44 goals, in the following 2 seasons he finished 3rd with 72 goals and then 2nd with 74 goals, so your comments about him taking over a top side are flawed. He took over Birmingham once they had been relegated and also had Europa League fixtures to add to their schedule, and he finished 4th with 78 goals, the season following his illogical sacking, they finished 12th with Lee Clark scoring 15 goals fewer. Throw in a promotion at Newcastle and he has so much recent history of promotion and top 6 finishes since Mowbrays promotion at West Brom, that it is understandable that people look to his record and expect him to repeatedly perform similar achievements, no appointment is a guarantee but a manager with such a record is as likely as anyone. He fits the type of manager to which a lot of snobbery is attached to but his teams score plenty of goals and we were regimented and dull to watch to a neutral when we came up from League 1 but ultimately, who cared? No one.

[Ewood Ace]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Been promoted from this league before, experience across loads of divisions. 

Since Mowbray last got promoted from this division, managers such as Alex Neill, Phil Brown, Owen Coyle, Alex McLeish, Paul Lambert, Nigel Atkins, Brian McDermott, Malky Mackay, and Ian Holloway (X2) have all achieved promotion from the Championship. The game has moved on from 13 years ago when Mowbray got his sole promotion from this division, since then he hasn't even been able to muster another top 6 finish. He'll have us mid table and we will go on little runs and flirt with the play offs but that will be as exciting as it gets.

As for Hughton since Mowbray last achieved a top 6 finish Hughton has achieved 4 top 6 finishes including two promotions. He also unlike Mowbray has done some decent jobs in the top flight.

[Ewood Ace]

47 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I'm sure he will keep them up. I think he's done well at previous clubs, but often does well when he's managing one of the divisions best teams.

Would that not also apply to Mowbray? The only times he has achieved top 6 finishes was when he managed a very good West Brom side.

Hughton took over Brighton when they were 21st in the league.

[Guest]

So we're all still adamant that Chris Hughton's a better manager than Mowbray. Baffling me. Hughton's football is prehistoric in 2020, at least Mowbray puts out a team to attack. Let's see if Hughton manages anything with Forest, I highly doubt he's going to. They've got some top players for this level and I think he should be doing a lot better with Grabban, Taylor, Lolley, Samba & more at his disposal. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by JoeH

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

That's a completely different hypothetical though. What was put forward when Hughton got to Forest was that they'd reach the play-offs this year and easily finish above Rovers. Now we're opening that up to reaching the play-offs before Rovers do across any season.

I think people overestimated Hughton and they continue to underestimate Tony Mowbray. If I was a Preston fan, I'd be looking at Mowbray and what he's done with Rovers this year, and I'd be thinking, yeah he's a decent manager. Been promoted from this league before, experience across loads of divisions. 

It's the bias of what we don't have. Hughton looked attractive because he's something different. But his football is boring & defensive, and it doesn't reap rewards unless managing a top side.

I don't agree. I don't remember myself or anyone seriously suggesting that Hughton would transform Forest from the bottom 3 to top 6 within a season. I thought it was a sensible appointment and still do, I think he will keep them up with distance to spare and if given a fair crack at it will have them in the top 6 next season. The question is whether the unpredictable people at Forest will allow him that.

I don't think he is overestimated. His accomplishments at this level with 3 different clubs and no blemish on his CV suggests he is a very effective manager at this level.

Is Mowbray under estimated? Maybe. I think most agree he has done well here but the elephant in the room is our inability to get any higher than 7th or 8th before slipping back again. Only when he breaks through that ceiling and looks like keeping us there for more than an odd weekend will those doubts begin to disappear.

Styles of play are completely irrelevant. A good manager finds a way to win and finish at the top of the league rather than sticking to principles and ending up mid table.

I think we overlook how good Mowbray has had it here. Warnock and Hughton are mere months into inheriting shambolic situations at their clubs and have had to firefight from the off. Mowbray is approaching 4 years here and has had free reign over every aspect of the club and substantial backing throughout. To be one point above Warnock's Boro side to me isn't a cause to put the bunting and balloons out. It says more about how well Warnock has sorted them out.

The pressure should be on here. If Mowbray isn't going to break the glass ceiling now then when? Do we just persist until he hopefully does it one day or decide that after 3 attempts it isnt going to happen?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

I don't remember myself or anyone seriously suggesting that Hughton would transform Forest from the bottom 3 to top 6 within a season.

They certainly did. Hughton and Warnock both touted by several to be nailed on play-off finishers. We'll see if that comes true.

2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

The pressure should be on here. If Mowbray isn't going to break the glass ceiling now then when? Do we just persist until he hopefully does it one day or decide that after 3 attempts it isnt going to happen?

I don't get it. I really don't. There's not a manager out there coming to Ewood Park who's going to do a better job. We're getting 14 goals in 14 games out of Adam Armstrong, Mowbray has signed and developed several key players for our side. We're progressing younger players and our squad transfer market value hasn't been this high since our days in the Premier League.

For me Sam Gallagher is the only major mishap. Brereton is coming good and only looks to be improving too. I just don't know what kind of manager could come in and "break the glass" ceiling with our team. Surely what we're seeing from this Rovers XI is the best we can get out of them?

In my opinion anyway.

[Ewood Ace]

2 minutes ago, JoeH said:

So we're all still adamant that Chris Hughton's a better manager than Mowbray. Baffling me. Hughton's football is prehistoric in 2020, at least Mowbray puts out a team to attack. Let's see if Hughton manages anything with Forest, I highly doubt he's going to. They've got some top players for this level and I think he should be doing a lot better with Grabban, Taylor, Lolley, Samba & more at his disposal. 

Chris Hughton has a better record than Tony Mowbray in the Championship where despite managing for a much shorter time in the division he has double the number of promotions and top 6 finishes. Hughton has also had far more success in the top flight where Mowbray had one season played very open football and finished rock bottom. Those are the facts, I'm not really sure how anyone could spin them to prove that Mowbray is a better manager.

[Guest]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

Chris Hughton has a better record than Tony Mowbray in the Championship where despite managing for a much shorter time in the division he has double the number of promotions and top 6 finishes. Hughton has also had far more success in the top flight where Mowbray had one season played very open football and finished rock bottom. Those are the facts, I'm not really sure how anyone could spin them to prove that Mowbray is a better manager.

Not trying to spin things. I believe in 2020 that Tony Mowbray is better equipped to get Blackburn Rovers promoted than outdated tactics that coaches like Neil Warnock and Chris Hughton provide. Forest have a top championship side on paper, and he should have them doing a lot better than he currently does. Warnock is doing what Warnock does with Boro, and it's working to an extent, but as he ages and football moves forward, every club Warnock goes to does a little bit less than the last one he visited.

Whereas Mowbray has squeezed 31 goals out of a team this season which doesn't feature Danny Graham or Bradley Dack. In 2018 if I'd have told you we'd be the leagues top scorers without those two you'd be thinking, how on earth have we managed that?