Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Guest]

8 hours ago, matt83 said:

Now pure conjecture but I’d wager Warnock is furious today, a man to be avoided. Mowbray will no doubt be handing out the mince pies because they tried and we have injuries. 

I mean seriously? You're forming your opinion of managers based off what you think their reactions may be behind closed doors?

[Gav]

22 minutes ago, 47er said:

We created NO clear chances. Not one in the whole 90 minutes.

Rubbish.

Ayala should have scored, excellent chance. 

Gallagher got in the way of one.

Armstrong first time pass instead of the shot and that’s just off the top of my head. 

BBC said we had 22 shots, 22!

7 on target and 59% of play.

I said earlier some have backed themselves into a corner, you’re one of them 47er.

Fact remains we lost, but my god it’s 100 times better than last session.

 

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

 

Fact remains we lost, but my god it’s 100 times better than last session.

 

Correct, we are much more fluid going forward with the investment he has put in.  What puzzles me is why he hasn't really attended to the defence in 4 years. He obviously has access to funds (or had).  How long do we give him before we get a proven manager like Pearson to get them the next step?

[chaddyrovers]

17 hours ago, JHRover said:

You don't feel downbeat after 1 point from 6? Do you ever feel downbeat?

Brentford was good result with 10 men and more than half game to play. Davenport equalised felt like a winner. 

I dont feel down beat against Bristol City performance. 

15 hours ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Are you expecting us to win pretty much every game in the new year ‘when we get Dack and Trav back’? Seems like half the board are.

I havent mention Travis or Dack tho If anything I'm been saying not too expect too much from Dack pre Christmas or even this season. 

 

7 hours ago, Gav said:

 

Far to many people on this thread have backed themselves into a corner, it started back in the promotion season when 90% wanted him gone in October, we ended up getting promoted, clueless majority.

Some of the football in 1st half last night was the best football I’ve seen us play in years. One touch, quick, decisive, tremendous at times, a level above in fact. 

If posters can’t see the progress we’ve made this season you don’t understand the game.

Mowbray has us going places, if we can keep the squad injury free we’ve a chance of making the playoffs, a tremendous achievement on a crap budget.

Exactly. Mowbray has created a attractive passing attacking team which is fluid then we seen since Hughes's days here. 

I enjoyed watching us play

[chaddyrovers]

13 hours ago, Mercer said:

Sick of feckin saying it - we need a young, hungry and innovative manager who, I am pretty certain, would get a far better tune out of the payers we have at Rovers. 

You mean Dan Cowley ?

13 hours ago, Mercer said:

Isadly, IMO, Mowbray did not set us up right

How is this?.

[Mattyblue]

Does our budget ‘pale into insignificance’’, I.e wages and net spend, in comparison to Brentford? Or have they just spent what they’ve had smarter this past few years?

[matt83]

7 hours ago, JoeH said:

I mean seriously? You're forming your opinion of managers based off what you think their reactions may be behind closed doors?

Yeah your right won’t have been mince pies. More likely lemon drizzle. 

[Gav]

6 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

What puzzles me is why he hasn't really attended to the defence in 4 years. He obviously has access to funds (or had).  How long do we give him before we get a proven manager like Pearson to get them the next step?

I take your point on the defence Sparks. He has tried to address the issues, Tosin last season, Ayala this, fullback required, maybe, Keeper sorted. 

Mowbray has this team firing currently, we should have won at Bristol, we should have won at Brentford, but for a red card, he’s got us heading in the right direction and long may it continue. 

[47er]

8 hours ago, Gav said:

Rubbish.

Ayala should have scored, excellent chance. 

Gallagher got in the way of one.

Armstrong first time pass instead of the shot and that’s just off the top of my head. 

BBC said we had 22 shots, 22!

7 on target and 59% of play.

I said earlier some have backed themselves into a corner, you’re one of them 47er.

Fact remains we lost, but my god it’s 100 times better than last session.

 

Gav you don't half talk some rubbish. You've lumped me in with some people you've identified apparently arguing that things aren't better than last season Who" Straw man?  My comments after the game were overwhelmingly positive:

"Hard to take that result. We were clearly the better side. We had a big period of domination mid-first half but couldn't make it count. I was feeling very uneasy just before they scored as they had a 10 minutes of possession in our half for just about the first time in the game. And a real scrappy, ugly goal was the outcome.

We didn't create many clear chances tbh for all our possession and Armstrong scuffed just about all of them.

Gallagher is a tremendous worker but what a poor first touch.

Our man of the match for me was Rothwell, he's going to be some player. Elliott showed sublime skills, Liverpool have a lot to look forward to there.

Defence had them in their pocket. 

Just one of those games I'm afraid.Like Bournemouth again."

You might remember that post Gav----you "liked' it after all!

What you've done is to take some later posts out of context. I was aiming at those blaming the defence for the defeat, I though they played pretty well but one slip or favourable bounce happens in any game. When it happened to us it shouldn't have changed the result because we had dominated them from start to almost finish.

Finally I stand by my comments that we created no clear chances ie where I leaped up and shouted "Gosh he should have put that one away. What a  pity" (or words to that effect"!

That includes Ayala's routine header from a routine corner. Hardly a piece of creation Gav. 

 

[Mercer]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

You mean Dan Cowley ? - I mean there are many options out there.  It's a question of identifying and appointing one of them.  For example, look at the interviews on Wednesday - Holden was so positive about everything (been in charge about 3 months and objective is top 2 THIS SEASON not a slow build and evolution) whilst IMO, Mowbray was the same old tired and stale Mowbray!  The argument by some, including yourself I think, is we can't get better than Mowbray - that is complete and utter nonsense.  IMO, four wasted years under Mowbray.

How is this?.  Simple - we lost the match and failed to score a goal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[K-Hod]

Saying people ‘don’t know football’ because they don’t agree with a viewpoint is insulting and patronising. 
It has absolutely no place on here.

[K-Hod]

9 hours ago, JoeH said:

They also don't give out play-off places in October, as was suggested

Was it? By whom?

Either way, I hope we don’t have to come to expect smug posts every time Warnock or Hughton loses a game, as it will get really old, really fast....

[Gav]

18 minutes ago, 47er said:

Gav you don't half talk some rubbish.

Finally I stand by my comments that we created no clear chances

 

This is what I was replying to, not something 4 pages back or I’d have quoted that!

its simply not true.

Did you miss the Ayala header for example? I was off the settee, I scored it, he put it wide.

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Gav

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

Saying people ‘don’t know football’ because they don’t agree with a viewpoint is insulting and patronising. 
It has absolutely no place on here.

It's insulting and arrogant when comments like that are made. Opinions differ.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

I mean there are many options out there.  It's a question of identifying and appointing one of them.  For example, look at the interviews on Wednesday - Holden was so positive about everything (been in charge about 3 months and objective is top 2 THIS SEASON not a slow build and evolution) whilst IMO, Mowbray was the same old tired and stale Mowbray!  The argument by some, including yourself I think, is we can't get better than Mowbray - that is complete and utter nonsense.  IMO, four wasted years under Mowbray.

 

You suggested Dan Cowley when we last had this sort of conversation a few months ago. 

I didnt think see the Holden's interview so cant comment. 

I still a big Mowbray fan and still happy for him to carry on as manager at Rovers for the season and his contract. 

No that isnt my argument at all Mercer. I dont know who we would get tomorrow if Mowbray did leave. Some people have said we only appointed manager from certain people. How true that is I dont. Other people know much than me on this. Think @Miller11did post a link in past months

 

[Mercer]

22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You suggested Dan Cowley when we last had this sort of conversation a few months ago. 

I didnt think see the Holden's interview so cant comment. 

I still a big Mowbray fan and still happy for him to carry on as manager at Rovers for the season and his contract. 

No that isnt my argument at all Mercer. I dont know who we would get tomorrow if Mowbray did leave. Some people have said we only appointed manager from certain people. How true that is I dont. Other people know much than me on this. Think @Miller11did post a link in past months

 

Cowley - didn't work out at Huddersfield though you could argue that given 10 months was hardly a fair crack of the whip.  I did not suggest we appoint Cowley but mentioned him as a 'bright young thing'.

As for Mowbray - been here nearly four years now and we've yet to beat a top half team this season so our quest for promotion aint looking great.  IMO, if Mowbray sees out his contract we will be no nearer the PL and it will have been five and a half wasted years for the club and its supporters whilst I think Mowbray will be able to happily and comfortably retire to his beloved Teeside, living a life of luxury, and oodles of lemon drizzle cake.

My early season optimism about making a serious promotion bid is rapidly draining away.  I think we have the players but sadly not the management or coaching team. 

[Blue blood]

14 hours ago, Gav said:

 

Far to many people on this thread have backed themselves into a corner, it started back in the promotion season when 90% wanted him gone in October, we ended up getting promoted, clueless majority.

Some of the football in 1st half last night was the best football I’ve seen us play in years. One touch, quick, decisive, tremendous at times, a level above in fact. 

If posters can’t see the progress we’ve made this season you don’t understand the game.

Mowbray has us going places, if we can keep the squad injury free we’ve a chance of making the playoffs, a tremendous achievement on a crap budget.

Well Gav it's nice to see you so dismissive of fellow Rovers fans. I get football is all about opinions and they will differ. I also understand some opinions are way off base with nothing to back them up, which would perhaps be what is fair to call clueless.  it seems this is where you'd class anyone who expresses doubts about TM - as clueless.

Problem is though, aside from being arrogant and patronising, your post might have a few issues with it, itself 

Firstly the best football comment. Have a few problems with this. For starters surely best football is subjective, it's opinion based. Personally for me, what I find the most exciting football is wingers getting to the byline and whipping in crosses for strikers. Perhaps a bygone age now, but it's what I grew up on and what I see as most exciting. You can disagree, which is fine as best football is subjective. 

Also if there is such a thing as best football, surely it is winning football? I think you have confused style and substance. After all if I worked for you and produced for you visually impressive reports but with a host of inaccuracies, I doubt you would be that pleased. Substance is more important than style, results more important than "nice" football, even if we can qualify what good football is. 

Secondly let's take the clueless majority not liking TM/wanting him out. That would suggest, to be clueless, that there were/are no flaws with TM. Both in league 1 to now there have been issues - some of which have been quite longstanding: overcomplicating things, bad runs, some poor transfers, players slow to be dropped, players out of position to name a few.

Now whilst it can be debated whether TM has has done more good than bad, the inference of clueless is that fans have no idea about football. The inference is there is zero evidence that suggests TM might not be the right manager. However, as I've listed there are a number of reservations about him, suggesting fans actually have some understanding about what is going on! 

Continuing onto this season - no understanding if you can't see the progress. Let's ignore for a moment all the reservations from previous years which may make people sceptical of said progress. On this season alone the facts are we are not in the top 6 where we want to be. We seem to have bottled it midweek when that opportunity arose to get there. And we haven't beaten a team above us. Those facts seem to suggest that said progress is not as fullsome as you suggest. And if we do dip into previous seasons of bottling it, again the evidence for progress seems more limited. It seems fair based on the evidence to express doubts as to the extent of the progress. 

(FWIW my view is we have progressed somewhat but not nearly enough to get promoted.) 

Finally, speaking of clueless, opinions without evidence there's the crap budget comments. I'm struggling to see the evidence to back up this opinion. Compared with Coyle for example his budget looks.generous. the likes of Coventry and Rotherham would be scratching their heads at such comments As would Millwall and Preston who I believe finished about us last season. Our wage budget is reputedly average for this league. Many teams couldn't spend £12-15 million on strikers. Our net spend is positive, and he hasn't had to sell anyone he doesn't want to. The evidence of a crap budget just isn't there. 

Sure it isn't the amount that the premiership relegated clubs have, but when in the Prem we weren't the biggest spenders either but it didn't stop us from competing. It didn't act as an excuse for Ince's mismanagement say. Likewise some clubs with better budgets like Brentford have made that the case through smart transfer business - simply nothing that we couldn't have done ourselves. So this crap budget stuff, seems to have no evidence whatsoever. 

So aside from an arrogant comment it seems to me to miss a whole selection of evidence and facts on our situation. It comes across as somewhat ill informed. Of course there are a ton of positives with TM too, and I acknowledge that, but the fact there is good and bad both generates the debate and shows that fans aren't clueless on where they land on TM as their opinions are based on evidence. 

[47er]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

This is what I was replying to, not something 4 pages back or I’d have quoted that!

its simply not true.

Did you miss the Ayala header for example? I was off the settee, I scored it, he put it wide.

 

No I didn't miss it but its not a created clear chance. You see those go wide everyday.

 

2 hours ago, Gav said:

This is what I was replying to

You went well beyond that.

[K-Hod]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

It's insulting and arrogant when comments like that are made. Opinions differ.

Absolutely. I really don’t like it on the other side when people start saying things like ‘if you think Mowbray’s the man for us, you are clueless’.

Comments like that and general insults are my real bug bear on here. However much any of us may disagree with each other, civility is key. So before anyone posts anything in future, or starts to complain about the reason they were banned, it wouldn’t hurt to think on....

 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Cowley - didn't work out at Huddersfield though you could argue that given 10 months was hardly a fair crack of the whip.  I did not suggest we appoint Cowley but mentioned him as a 'bright young thing'.

I think Cowley did the best job he could at Huddersfield keeping them up. I disagree with their owner decision and the reasons behind it  

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

My early season optimism about making a serious promotion bid is rapidly draining away.  I think we have the players but sadly not the management or coaching team. 

My optimism is still there. I.think we have the manager, coaching staff and the players. Football is all about opinions

[Ewood Ace]

12 hours ago, Gav said:

BBC said we had 22 shots, 22!

And their keeper was never really troubled.

 

[Ewood Ace]

4 hours ago, Gav said:

I take your point on the defence Sparks. He has tried to address the issues, Tosin last season, Ayala this, fullback required, maybe, Keeper sorted. 

Mowbray has this team firing currently, we should have won at Bristol, we should have won at Brentford, but for a red card, he’s got us heading in the right direction and long may it continue. 

If we had 3 points for every game people say we should have won this season then Mowbray really would have the team flying but as it is we are where we will always remain under Mowbray which is mid table. We have a squad that is capable of making the top 6, it if not top 2 but a manager who is a detriment to that and whilst he is in charge we only ever flirt with the play offs before falling back into mid table.

[JHRover]

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Brentford was good result with 10 men and more than half game to play. Davenport equalised felt like a winner. 

I dont feel down beat against Bristol City performance. 

I havent mention Travis or Dack tho If anything I'm been saying not too expect too much from Dack pre Christmas or even this season. 

 

Exactly. Mowbray has created a attractive passing attacking team which is fluid then we seen since Hughes's days here. 

I enjoyed watching us play

We lost at Bristol City. We shouldn't have done but in typical Rovers/Mowbray fashion we didn't hold on and didn't get the result our efforts should have brought. This isn't unusual. It's already happened at least 3 times this season including Bournemouth away and Watford away. 

Brentford is another one. Whilst I was jubilant with the late equaliser and in the circumstances happy with a point there remains a frustration that we didn't win it. Blame the referee or blame Lenihan but these things always seem to go against us. Why? Because we aren't ever in control and defensively solid. This is why we couldn't cope against Brentford after going 1-0 up and why Bristol were able to get past us and why Bournemouth took the lead 3 times despite being pegged back. It needs dealing with but we are now into season 3 of it so I can't see it.

I'm yet to experience a defeat that doesn't leave me disappointed and downbeat. I'm yet to experience a win where I don't wake up the following day with a spring in my step. The fact we played nice stuff or caused the opposition problems doesn't come into it. Infact it irritates me even more. I can just about tolerate losing if we deserve it and are outdone by the opposition being better but when we are worthy of a result and don't get it then it gnaws at me inside.

[Gav]

38 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Absolutely. I really don’t like it on the other side when people start saying things like ‘if you think Mowbray’s the man for us, you are clueless’.

Comments like that and general insults are my real bug bear on here. However much any of us may disagree with each other, civility is key. So before anyone posts anything in future, or starts to complain about the reason they were banned, it wouldn’t hurt to think on....

 

If I’ve upset anyone with my comment then I do apologies.

Ill pick my words more carefully in future. 

[Hasta]

21 hours ago, islander200 said:

Gallagher had performed well enough of late to be included, he should have been brought off for Dolan though.

Mowbray set us up fine last night the stats don't lie,our attacking players where off form along with Holtby.

Not sure I agree. Mowbray set us up fine for how we have played in previous games. However we met a side on Wednesday that let us play in midfield but got men behind the ball and said break us down. We knocked it around well and tried to feed balls into Armstrong in the box but ultimately carved out just the one chance for Armstrong in the first half.  The reason Arma kept shooting from 25 yards out is because we created very little any closer to goal than 25 yards because of how well the opposition manager set them up to cope with us.

What we then needed was plan B. We didn't have one. That's where I think Mowbray was (and is) lacking. We no longer have the direct ball into Graham option because DG was on the wane, but wasn't replaced and we don't seem to be able to mix it up any differently when required. The one decent 2nd half cross I recall us putting in towards the back post caused panic. At some point Gallagher should have been put up top properly  and we should have resorted to putting the ball in the box more direct on Wednesday. Ultimately, that's what Bristol city did and it won them the game. I'd say Mowbray was out-thought in the end.

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Hasta