Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, Ossydave said:

Yes, but who fits that criteria?

How would I know? Its not my job to know. Its up to the club. The only certainty is that Mowbray clearly can't. 

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, tomphil said:

The squad has evolved, the style is evolving but the points are looking like remaining very similar

Lets see where we are at the end of the season then

[Gav]

5 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

How would I know? Its not my job to know. Its up to the club. The only certainty is that Mowbray clearly can't. 

Its not your job to sack the manager either but you seem to have no trouble forming an opinion on that.

Let me help you, Matt suggested Pearson or Hughes yesterday, I'd go with either one of those, it won't happen of course, if Mowbray was sacked we'd probably end up with Monk, fighting relegation. 

[tomphil]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Lets see where we are at the end of the season then

The key is getting most of them fit and available then that should make a significant difference points wise.

If it doesn't then it really is time to change but also we can't lose too much ground now either.

I think we'll break the top 10 this season but nothing more.

[Ossydave]

16 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

How would I know? Its not my job to know. Its up to the club. The only certainty is that Mowbray clearly can't. 

Thought you would have an opinion like you do on most things, my bad.

[darrenrover]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

In a few weeks time we will enter our eighth transfer window under Mowbray and really aren't much better off from a positional perspective. There have been pluses along the way and we are in a healthier position player wise so credit to him for that. The real conundrum is can he take us any further. For me it's a resounding no and simply from that point of view we need to replace him with somebody who can give us a better chance. However I don't think there is a cat in hells chance of him leaving, either sacked or of his own volition. We will be mid table, win some, lose some, play well, play poorly, good runs and bad runs but he will be safe. 

Personally I want more for my football club and Mowbray just isn't the man to deliver it.

Absolutely everything in a nut shell Tony.

It really is time for thanks ToMo but toodle pip!

[darrenrover]

Does anyone think any of the following would be an upgrade on Tony Mowbray?

David Wagner, Eddie Howe, Danny Cowley, Gus Poyet, Marco Silva, Mark Hughes, Maurizio Pochettino, Maurizio Sarri, Nigel Pearson, Sam Allardyce, Bruno Lage, Ernesto Valverde, Leonardo Jardim and Massimiliano Allegri.

They are all managers of decent quality and ALL are currently out of work. We could really set the cat amongst the pigeons and give a disgruntled Shaun Dyche a call. Any decent CEO or club owner would be sounding this lot out.

All food for thought.

[Blue blood]

6 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

Does anyone think any of the following would be an upgrade on Tony Mowbray?

David Wagner, Eddie Howe, Danny Cowley, Gus Poyet, Marco Silva, Mark Hughes, Maurizio Pochettino, Maurizio Sarri, Nigel Pearson, Sam Allardyce, Bruno Lage, Ernesto Valverde, Leonardo Jardim and Massimiliano Allegri.

They are all managers of decent quality and ALL are currently out of work. We could really set the cat amongst the pigeons and give a disgruntled Shaun Dyche a call. Any decent CEO or club owner would be sounding this lot out.

All food for thought.

A few good and realistic names there. Some I think no chance they would come. 

Also, why can we only appoint managers out of work? Surely we could seek to approach the right candidate who is in a job? 

[Ossydave]

1 minute ago, Blue blood said:

A few good and realistic names there. Some I think no chance they would come. 

Also, why can we only appoint managers out of work? Surely we could seek to approach the right candidate who is in a job? 

We could, it obviously then becomes more expensive though and pretty sure we wouldn't go down that road!

[Norbert Rassragr]

I'd wet myself with excitement if Allegri or Poch came in. 

This season is a must win, with a lot of players out of contract, or probably ripe for a move (like Armstrong or Dack). It could get messy in the summer, and a new squad might be needed. Tony is not the right man to get us up.

[danger19_80]

7 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Also, why can we only appoint managers out of work? Surely we could seek to approach the right candidate who is in a job? 

Exactly. Reading and Barnsley showing what a competent CEO can do with a few contacts on the continent and a bit of nous.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Its not your job to sack the manager either but you seem to have no trouble forming an opinion on that.

Let me help you, Matt suggested Pearson or Hughes yesterday, I'd go with either one of those, it won't happen of course, if Mowbray was sacked we'd probably end up with Monk, fighting relegation. 

I can assure you I don't need your help with anything...even if you do think you 'know football' better than anyone else😂 

Also, where did I say we should sack the manager? 

[darrenrover]

2 minutes ago, danger19_80 said:

Exactly. Reading and Barnsley showing what a competent CEO can do with a few contacts on the continent and a bit of nous.

Yep, proper, innovative, motivational, forward thinking LEADERSHIP tends to work absolute wonders in life

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

If we had a competent board with a group of directors with their ears to the ground like we had in the past they'd have a good idea who the up and coming guys are in the game. Ken Furphy, Gordon Lee, Jim Smith, Howard Kendall were all very good appointments that came from lower divisions, Don MacKay was a good one, even Saxton wasn't bad.

A proper board, even if they were happy with the current manager, should always be thinking - " If Tony goes who'd be a good replacement ? "

Our problem is the club is being run in a vacuum, we're on automatic pilot with nobody in the pilots seat. There's no point anybody making suggestions regarding appointments because nobody is listening. What I do know is the next young top manager is out there but we've no chance of appointing him because nobody is looking.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

The current Top 6 managers are people who 99% of this board would never have heard of before they rocked up at their current clubs. None of them had managed at club level before in this country. So being asked who should Mowbray be replaced by is a fools mission. That is for the club to do it's research...which shines a light on the massive Venky-shaped elephant in the room. They turned down Warnock for Coyle. 

The real questions therefore are:-

1) What is Mowbray's remit this season? (if top 6 he will eventually have to be replaced if he fails or it looks likely he will fail)

2) Who is responsible for appointing the new manager? (Barry Bling, Senior, Singh etc or a respected figure within football)

3) What is the criteria for finding his replacement? (when TM was appointed the main criteria was someone who wasn't under contract elsewhere, according to Cheston)

4) Is there anyone available using the current criteria who the recruitment team believe is better than Mowbray? 

 

It's a bit simplistic to say 'sack Mowbray' when the alternative is potentially much worse. 

 

[Mashed Potatoes]

19 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If we had a competent board with a group of directors with their ears to the ground like we had in the past they'd have a good idea who the up and coming guys are in the game. Ken Furphy, Gordon Lee, Jim Smith, Howard Kendall were all very good appointments that came from lower divisions, Don MacKay was a good one, even Saxton wasn't bad.

A proper board, even if they were happy with the current manager, should always be thinking - " If Tony goes who'd be a good replacement ? "

Our problem is the club is being run in a vacuum, we're on automatic pilot with nobody in the pilots seat. There's no point anybody making suggestions regarding appointments because nobody is listening. What I do know is the next young top manager is out there but we've no chance of appointing him because nobody is looking.

Kendall came from Stoke who were in a higher division.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

31 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Kendall came from Stoke who were in a higher division.

Of course he was, but we gave him his first job as a manager. He was a complete unknown in managerial terms but somebody ( Jimmy Armfield ?  ) tipped off the board that he would be good managerial timber.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Gone to seed]

At least it isn't just us and our manager that does these baffling things.. see below, from today's game between Southampton and Sheff Utd.

 

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[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If we had a competent board with a group of directors with their ears to the ground like we had in the past they'd have a good idea who the up and coming guys are in the game. Ken Furphy, Gordon Lee, Jim Smith, Howard Kendall were all very good appointments that came from lower divisions, Don MacKay was a good one, even Saxton wasn't bad.

A proper board, even if they were happy with the current manager, should always be thinking - " If Tony goes who'd be a good replacement ? "

Our problem is the club is being run in a vacuum, we're on automatic pilot with nobody in the pilots seat. There's no point anybody making suggestions regarding appointments because nobody is listening. What I do know is the next young top manager is out there but we've no chance of appointing him because nobody is looking.

Yes they are in no way proactive just reactive and that's the problem. Manager leaves so it's oh shit we need another, Balaji who have your mates got that are cheaper but better ?

Knee jerkers. No real planning and if it is it's Mowbray & Waggot doing it.  If he actually wanted to leave he'd probably have the luxury of choosing his replacement.

Edited December 13, 2020 by tomphil

[darrenrover]

I bet Dirty Leeds' fans all thought Marcello Bielsa? nah, we've no chance of attracting him to Elland Road, you're having a laugh!

Somebody had the foresight to ignore the nay sayers, demonstrate true leadership and the rest is history. You have to try, we were PL Champions of England 25 years ago, steeped in history and success, we're an attractive proposition still IMO. I highlighted a few posts above, a list of brilliant potential managerial candidates that would cost zilch in terms of compensation. You only have to pick the phone up and ask the question and if the answer is no, then we've lost nothing.

We have the 'chicken chokers' (as Tyrone says, it makes me laugh every time I see it) holding the purse strings and our under-achieving gaffer's mate as CEO. That's the real problem and until we have a board with a much bigger level of independent empowerment, I fear not much is going to change for the better.

 

[roversfan99]

It is really bizarre how contrasting peoples opinions are at the moment to the question of whether we are progressing under Mowbray, it seems almost a 50/50 split between those looking at the league table, the points gained and cannot see progression, or those that are adamant that we are progressing in spite of those results.

Even this morning, Rich Sharpe and Mike Delap (with plenty more in agreement underneath) tweeted the below, there is a certain insistence by many that we are progressing as if results are an irrelevant by product of performances.

Mikey Delap - 

"Anyone who has watched this Rovers side this season should be able to spot an improvement on what’s being offered up."

I dont think there is many who would argue that the team this season is better, Kaminski for one is a huge upgrade in goal and Harvey Elliott is a vast improvement (much better yesterday back in his natural position may I add) on anything we have had out wide before under Mowbray. Brereton has really come on this season and is offering something he simply did not offer in his first 2 seasons. Them 3 alone are big improvements, that is before you can argue the toss on perhaps more subjective matters, have Ayala/Trybull/Douglas/Dolan improved us, are the likes of Johnson, (for me a definite yes) Holtby, Rothwell, Gallagher etc now offering more due to a full pre season, the new system etc?

I dont get how considering that we have better players, that the fact that we do have said better players justifies us making progress, surely logic means that if we have better players yet are achieving almost identical results, that is regression rather than progression?

Maybe people feel that if we accumulate almost identical results and still finish mid table but do it in a commonly accepted much more aesthetically pleasing way, people consider that in itself to be progress?

Something that compounds the issue for me is that we are uncompetitive against the better teams, although again, because we appear competitive and play some pretty football in those games, even though we always come out on the wrong side of the result, again maybe some feel that we are competitive? Mowbray was very flippant, the usual guff basically about anyone beating anyone, but it obviously isnt a coincedence.

 

[Ewood Ace]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It is really bizarre how contrasting peoples opinions are at the moment to the question of whether we are progressing under Mowbray, it seems almost a 50/50 split between those looking at the league table, the points gained and cannot see progression, or those that are adamant that we are progressing in spite of those results.

Even this morning, Rich Sharpe and Mike Delap (with plenty more in agreement underneath) tweeted the below, there is a certain insistence by many that we are progressing as if results are an irrelevant by product of performances.

Mikey Delap - 

"Anyone who has watched this Rovers side this season should be able to spot an improvement on what’s being offered up."

I dont think there is many who would argue that the team this season is better, Kaminski for one is a huge upgrade in goal and Harvey Elliott is a vast improvement (much better yesterday back in his natural position may I add) on anything we have had out wide before under Mowbray. Brereton has really come on this season and is offering something he simply did not offer in his first 2 seasons. Them 3 alone are big improvements, that is before you can argue the toss on perhaps more subjective matters, have Ayala/Trybull/Douglas/Dolan improved us, are the likes of Johnson, (for me a definite yes) Holtby, Rothwell, Gallagher etc now offering more due to a full pre season, the new system etc?

I dont get how considering that we have better players, that the fact that we do have said better players justifies us making progress, surely logic means that if we have better players yet are achieving almost identical results, that is regression rather than progression?

Maybe people feel that if we accumulate almost identical results and still finish mid table but do it in a commonly accepted much more aesthetically pleasing way, people consider that in itself to be progress?

Something that compounds the issue for me is that we are uncompetitive against the better teams, although again, because we appear competitive and play some pretty football in those games, even though we always come out on the wrong side of the result, again maybe some feel that we are competitive? Mowbray was very flippant, the usual guff basically about anyone beating anyone, but it obviously isnt a coincedence.

 

Mowbray's disciples will never turn against him. Because he got us promoted from League 1 he is their messiah and no one could possibly better him in their eyes.

The simple fact is we haven't improved as a team as the league table shows. There is one simple reason why we have not improved and that is because yet again the manager has failed to improve the defence, it's an old cliché but a true one all successful sides are built upon a solid backline. We perhaps have a more easy on the eye attacking style but sadly the substance is still the same as the league table shows.

[arbitro]

We undoubtedly have better players than in previous seasons so what else can it be?

[booth]

6 hours ago, Ossydave said:

Maybe its a good point to ask, again, who people would replace him with?

Someone who can hire and implement a decent defence.

[tomphil]

If things keep following the same pattern, as i expect they will, then come January there'll be a lot more concern.

It's just general modern day guff, 10 games - Christmas - Window - till the end of the season. 

Truth is we are following the usual route under this regime so at some point we'll need a hell of a turnaround again.