Tony Mowbray Discussion

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

Mediocrity, with a mere sniff of a bit of success every now and then. Keeps everything rolling along quite nicely and ToMo, Swag, Venus, Lowe & Benson in a cushy, well paid job!

His narrative is changing now as predicted as the season rolls on and the weaknesses show up.

I wouldn't bother normally as all managers have to find excuses to waffle about but dragging lge 1 into it has got my back up. Two and a half years ago ffs !

That's a long time in football and we were only there 1 season - with a championship wage budget, crowds and structure - we aren't a league 1 club trying to get established in the Championship for the first time in a decade.

This guys repeated bullshit is getting annoying now.

[JHRover]

6 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

We were closely linked with/run by an agent-Jerome Anderson. I'm not exactly happy with trying such an experiment again thank you, even if the agent is more honest. Agents are essentially parasites looking for big pay offs and taking money out of the game. Look at Pogba, Haarland, and the move that lead to the death of Sala.

I'm not suggesting that we should be run by an agent as we were in the dark days. I don't see any particular issue with taking advice or help from a well connected agent to identify the best people for jobs. I'd prefer that to Waggott, Cheston and Venkys leading a search.

[darrenrover]

51 minutes ago, tomphil said:

His narrative is changing now as predicted as the season rolls on and the weaknesses show up.

I wouldn't bother normally as all managers have to find excuses to waffle about but dragging lge 1 into it has got my back up. Two and a half years ago ffs !

That's a long time in football and we were only there 1 season - with a championship wage budget, crowds and structure - we aren't a league 1 club trying to get established in the Championship for the first time in a decade.

This guys repeated bullshit is getting annoying now.

Turn it on it's head: We were Premier League Champions only 15 years prior to Venkys buying us and even then, 10 years ago, were still a well established PL Club, having only been outside of the Premier League for a couple of seasons since its' conception in 1992.

What did that matter?

[arbitro]

2 hours ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

Tony spouting utter bollocks in the LT, again;

"But I’m a performance related coach and the performance was alright, yet I’m still frustrated with the team." 

People can't fall for this utter shit. Playing 'well' and returning the same amount of points as the previous two years isn't in any way acceptable given the fact he hasn't had to sell a single player and been given money to invest in the squad. Frankly your 'performance' has been bang average, Tony. 

"They’re not Premier League footballers, they’re trying to get better, but we do make mistakes and we do make bad decisions at times." 

Not only is this removing any blame from himself he's also telling the whole squad they're not at the standard of the league we're trying to get promoted to. How fucking thick is this guy? Boils my piss it really does. 

" But we still created chances against the team top of the league, had 20 shots at their goal, and the journey we’re on is hopefully going to be exciting from now until the end of the season." 

Classic Tony, self preservation mode 101. I can see through your bullshit Tony. My only solace is that the more he spouts this shit the more I hope he feels that he has to say it, as he's getting some kind of pressure to perform from above. 

Performance based coach? That's a completely new one and plummets a new depth even for him. 

What about a results based coach.

[tomphil]

14 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Performance based coach? That's a completely new one and plummets a new depth even for him. 

What about a results based coach.

That just sums it all up for me though with his tenure over the past few years. The performance was 'alright', we nearly got something so that's alright and we are in an alright position in the league.

That exact mentality is what will have us in the middle for eternity whilst him and his pals earn hundreds of thousands per year for being just 'alright'.

I think the ownership and a large lump of fans had got that used to things being not alright that just alright will now do, forever.

He's on an absolute doddle here and he knows it.

Edited December 14, 2020 by tomphil

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Damning stats courtesy of Sharpe:-

 

Against teams above them: P10 W0 D4 L6 F9 A18 Pts: 4/30

Against teams below them: P8 W7 D0 L1 F23 A4 Pts: 21/24

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

3 hours ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

Tony spouting utter bollocks in the LT, again;

"But I’m a performance related coach and the performance was alright, yet I’m still frustrated with the team." 

People can't fall for this utter shit. Playing 'well' and returning the same amount of points as the previous two years isn't in any way acceptable given the fact he hasn't had to sell a single player and been given money to invest in the squad. Frankly your 'performance' has been bang average, Tony. 

"They’re not Premier League footballers, they’re trying to get better, but we do make mistakes and we do make bad decisions at times." 

Not only is this removing any blame from himself he's also telling the whole squad they're not at the standard of the league we're trying to get promoted to. How fucking thick is this guy? Boils my piss it really does. 

" But we still created chances against the team top of the league, had 20 shots at their goal, and the journey we’re on is hopefully going to be exciting from now until the end of the season." 

Classic Tony, self preservation mode 101. I can see through your bullshit Tony. My only solace is that the more he spouts this shit the more I hope he feels that he has to say it, as he's getting some kind of pressure to perform from above. 

I've never understood the 'nice guy Tony' stuff. He's very quick to blame the players whenever we go on a run of bad results. After 3+ years it's become very transparent. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

33 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

I've never understood the 'nice guy Tony' stuff. He's very quick to blame the players whenever we go on a run of bad results. After 3+ years it's become very transparent. 

Everyone here is frustrated with them too though, aren't they? I mean the main discussion is individual mistakes. 

Do you not think ,say Neil Warnock, would also say he is frustrated with his team? The answer is yes, cos I have heard him do it loads of times 

[Mashed Potatoes]

11 hours ago, JHRover said:

Look at Reading. For the last 3-4 years they've been something of a basket case club. They had Jaap Stam who did a good job in getting them to the play-off final where they lost on penalties and then never really recovered from it (a reminder for all those who consider 6th to be the holy grail that it means very little if you lose in the final at Wembley). When they were beaten in the play-off final we had been relegated to League One. Since then we've supposedly done things the right way whilst by Mowbray's manual they've done it the wrong way with a high turnover in staff and players and dodging FFP rules, yet here they are looking down on us.

After Stam went they've worked their way through Paul Clement, Jose Gomes, Mark Bowen and now Veljko Paunovic in the space of only a few years and have spent most of that time in the bottom half looking over their shoulders at relegation. 

Mark Bowen did a steady job last season results wise, collecting enough to steer them comfortably away from trouble to a mid-table finish. But that wasn't enough. It would have been very easy for their owners and directors to applaud Bowen and give him the time he had earned to see how he got on in the job. But they had other ideas and set about taking a different route and harshly/ruthlessly got rid of Bowen and immediately appointed Paunovic. This was a risky strategy, carried out whilst results under Bowen were reasonable and in the midst of the pandemic with the new season rapidly approaching. But they did their homework, found someone out there in the big wide world who they liked and thought would fit. 

A few short months later they have been in the top 6 all season and are fighting for a top 2 spot. Now maybe it won't last and maybe they will fall away and maybe we will end up finishing above them. But at the time of writing they've been above us all season and have spent more time in the top 6 this season than we have under Mowbray in nearly 3 seasons. 

No 4 year projects, no emotional decisions, no slow build. Just make a ruthless decision for the good of the club, get shut of one bloke and before you do scour the globe for the right man for what you are looking for. 

So what if his agent is mates with their owner. It hasn't done Wolves much harm. Infact most decisions these days have agent links in them. Just because we were handed on a silver platter to dodgy people by our owners doesn't mean that all transactions involving agents are bad or to be avoided. That sort of mentality will see us end up like Oyston's Blackpool only dealing with personal friends of the manager.

Ignoring financial disciplines and constantly changing the manager has not worked for Derby, Nottingham Forest and Sheffield Wednesday.

[JHRover]

46 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Ignoring financial disciplines and constantly changing the manager has not worked for Derby, Nottingham Forest and Sheffield Wednesday.

I'll put money on it now that at least one, probably two, of those clubs will finish in the top 6 of this league before we do.

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

I've never understood the 'nice guy Tony' stuff. He's very quick to blame the players whenever we go on a run of bad results. After 3+ years it's become very transparent. 

IMO, absolutely right.

I think it's all self preservation stuff.

I don't think we are moving forward as a club - at best, it's stagnation which will soon turn to regression should Mowbray remain here too much longer.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Everyone here is frustrated with them too though, aren't they? I mean the main discussion is individual mistakes. 

Do you not think ,say Neil Warnock, would also say he is frustrated with his team? The answer is yes, cos I have heard him do it loads of times 

Exactly, and nobody ever called Warnock a nice guy! 

[rigger]

Does TM know, we are results based supporters ? 

[Norbert Rassragr]

2 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Ignoring financial disciplines and constantly changing the manager has not worked for Derby, Nottingham Forest and Sheffield Wednesday.

Letting debts mount up and never getting a chance of promotion doesn't work either. This was supposed to be the big push for the play offs, and we have a squad capable of that, and yet we're blowing it. Oh well, at least you're happy with mediocrity and false dawns.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

At wish of upsetting some supporters - you have to give some credit to the owners - as at no point has he been forced into selling star players (something he omits to mention). They are giving him the opportunity and support to build a team - unlike most teams in this division - again something he omits to mention.

 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

15 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Letting debts mount up and never getting a chance of promotion doesn't work either. This was supposed to be the big push for the play offs, and we have a squad capable of that, and yet we're blowing it. Oh well, at least you're happy with mediocrity and false dawns.

Is the squad capable ? At the moment Lenihan is making mistakes which seem to being punished, Douglas has yet to show up, Johnson is up and down and Holtby has had a dip in form. Add to this one of our better players since lock down (Brereton) being injured, alongside Dack and Travis.

This isn't to get TM off the hook - but do we overstate the strength of our squad - especially compared to the Norwichs of this world ?

[JHRover]

11 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Is the squad capable ? At the moment Lenihan is making mistakes which seem to being punished, Douglas has yet to show up, Johnson is up and down and Holtby has had a dip in form. Add to this one of our better players since lock down (Brereton) being injured, alongside Dack and Travis.

This isn't to get TM off the hook - but do we overstate the strength of our squad - especially compared to the Norwichs of this world ?

I think the squad is capable of more than is being delivered. Mowbray of course deserves credit for assembling that but also criticism for not making more of it.

The flip side is that if the squad isn't good enough again that falls back on Mowbray. He's had more than enough time and money to get it to being good enough so if it isn't there now will it ever?

I know that having 4 years in the job, not being forced to sell any key players and a net spend of £20 million is a luxury very few others get at this level.

Injuries are par for the course. People mention Dack not being back yet but we've had 2 transfer windows to deal with his absence and despite it we are still top scorers so I dont accept his absence has caused us too much of a problem. Travis unfortunate and a big miss but we've a raft of midfielders signed by this manager to step into his shoes.

If Lenihan isn't up to it, making mistakes or playing poorly it is the job of the manager to drop or replace him. Yet he's straight back in after suspension suggesting the manager is happy with him.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Is the squad capable ? At the moment Lenihan is making mistakes which seem to being punished, Douglas has yet to show up, Johnson is up and down and Holtby has had a dip in form. Add to this one of our better players since lock down (Brereton) being injured, alongside Dack and Travis.

This isn't to get TM off the hook - but do we overstate the strength of our squad - especially compared to the Norwichs of this world ?

I don't think Holtby has had a dip in form. I think what you see is what you get. 1 very good game followed by 4 very average to poor games. He should be due another good one in a game or two.

[Mashed Potatoes]

3 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Letting debts mount up and never getting a chance of promotion doesn't work either. This was supposed to be the big push for the play offs, and we have a squad capable of that, and yet we're blowing it. Oh well, at least you're happy with mediocrity and false dawns.

I am baffled by your conclusion as to my feelings.

[tomphil]

5 hours ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

At wish of upsetting some supporters - you have to give some credit to the owners - as at no point has he been forced into selling star players (something he omits to mention). They are giving him the opportunity and support to build a team - unlike most teams in this division - again something he omits to mention.

 

Pound for pound he's the best backed Rovers manager since Hughes.  I'd go as far as saying he's one of the best backed in the division.

That is taking everything into account not just budget as he pretty much seems to get the green light for anything he wants around the place. Been safe as houses despite some terrible runs and crap football and falling crowds. Then the cherry on top of no forced sales.

That must be totally unique at modern day Rovers.

[47er]

11 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Ignoring financial disciplines and constantly changing the manager has not worked for Derby, Nottingham Forest and Sheffield Wednesday.

Whose suggesting "constantly" changing the manager?

 

11 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Do you not think ,say Neil Warnock, would also say he is frustrated with his team? The answer is yes, cos I have heard him do it loads of times 

Warnock is a results based manager.

Edited December 14, 2020 by 47er

[tomphil]

After the early chaos we've had what ? 4 managers since 2013 from when Bowyer stepped in ?

2 in the middle were only short term and one of those was by his own choice. So this one has been here 3+ years and the first of the others just a bit less.

That's hardly chopping and changing managers by a few clubs standards.  Change in football is inevitable it's par for the course.

[Exiled in Toronto]

13 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Damning stats courtesy of Sharpe:-

 

Against teams above them: P10 W0 D4 L6 F9 A18 Pts: 4/30

Against teams below them: P8 W7 D0 L1 F23 A4 Pts: 21/24

Being too idle to look it up, but would I be right in assuming that Armstrong has not scored against teams above us? He certainly has fired blanks in the last three.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

5 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Being too idle to look it up, but would I be right in assuming that Armstrong has not scored against teams above us? He certainly has fired blanks in the last three.

Off the top of my head I have no idea and I'm also too idle to check, but it's a good question. 

[rog of the rovers]

29 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Off the top of my head I have no idea and I'm also too idle to check, but it's a good question. 

1 against Bournemouth away

2 at home to Reading

3/14 league goals

Interestingly, we’ve played 10/11 teams above us, only missing Stoke, who we play away on Saturday.