Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

3 hours ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

Tony spouting utter bollocks in the LT, again;

"But I’m a performance related coach and the performance was alright, yet I’m still frustrated with the team." 

People can't fall for this utter shit. Playing 'well' and returning the same amount of points as the previous two years isn't in any way acceptable given the fact he hasn't had to sell a single player and been given money to invest in the squad. Frankly your 'performance' has been bang average, Tony. 

"They’re not Premier League footballers, they’re trying to get better, but we do make mistakes and we do make bad decisions at times." 

Not only is this removing any blame from himself he's also telling the whole squad they're not at the standard of the league we're trying to get promoted to. How fucking thick is this guy? Boils my piss it really does. 

" But we still created chances against the team top of the league, had 20 shots at their goal, and the journey we’re on is hopefully going to be exciting from now until the end of the season." 

Classic Tony, self preservation mode 101. I can see through your bullshit Tony. My only solace is that the more he spouts this shit the more I hope he feels that he has to say it, as he's getting some kind of pressure to perform from above. 

I've never understood the 'nice guy Tony' stuff. He's very quick to blame the players whenever we go on a run of bad results. After 3+ years it's become very transparent. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

33 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

I've never understood the 'nice guy Tony' stuff. He's very quick to blame the players whenever we go on a run of bad results. After 3+ years it's become very transparent. 

Everyone here is frustrated with them too though, aren't they? I mean the main discussion is individual mistakes. 

Do you not think ,say Neil Warnock, would also say he is frustrated with his team? The answer is yes, cos I have heard him do it loads of times 

[Mashed Potatoes]

11 hours ago, JHRover said:

Look at Reading. For the last 3-4 years they've been something of a basket case club. They had Jaap Stam who did a good job in getting them to the play-off final where they lost on penalties and then never really recovered from it (a reminder for all those who consider 6th to be the holy grail that it means very little if you lose in the final at Wembley). When they were beaten in the play-off final we had been relegated to League One. Since then we've supposedly done things the right way whilst by Mowbray's manual they've done it the wrong way with a high turnover in staff and players and dodging FFP rules, yet here they are looking down on us.

After Stam went they've worked their way through Paul Clement, Jose Gomes, Mark Bowen and now Veljko Paunovic in the space of only a few years and have spent most of that time in the bottom half looking over their shoulders at relegation. 

Mark Bowen did a steady job last season results wise, collecting enough to steer them comfortably away from trouble to a mid-table finish. But that wasn't enough. It would have been very easy for their owners and directors to applaud Bowen and give him the time he had earned to see how he got on in the job. But they had other ideas and set about taking a different route and harshly/ruthlessly got rid of Bowen and immediately appointed Paunovic. This was a risky strategy, carried out whilst results under Bowen were reasonable and in the midst of the pandemic with the new season rapidly approaching. But they did their homework, found someone out there in the big wide world who they liked and thought would fit. 

A few short months later they have been in the top 6 all season and are fighting for a top 2 spot. Now maybe it won't last and maybe they will fall away and maybe we will end up finishing above them. But at the time of writing they've been above us all season and have spent more time in the top 6 this season than we have under Mowbray in nearly 3 seasons. 

No 4 year projects, no emotional decisions, no slow build. Just make a ruthless decision for the good of the club, get shut of one bloke and before you do scour the globe for the right man for what you are looking for. 

So what if his agent is mates with their owner. It hasn't done Wolves much harm. Infact most decisions these days have agent links in them. Just because we were handed on a silver platter to dodgy people by our owners doesn't mean that all transactions involving agents are bad or to be avoided. That sort of mentality will see us end up like Oyston's Blackpool only dealing with personal friends of the manager.

Ignoring financial disciplines and constantly changing the manager has not worked for Derby, Nottingham Forest and Sheffield Wednesday.

[JHRover]

46 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Ignoring financial disciplines and constantly changing the manager has not worked for Derby, Nottingham Forest and Sheffield Wednesday.

I'll put money on it now that at least one, probably two, of those clubs will finish in the top 6 of this league before we do.

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

I've never understood the 'nice guy Tony' stuff. He's very quick to blame the players whenever we go on a run of bad results. After 3+ years it's become very transparent. 

IMO, absolutely right.

I think it's all self preservation stuff.

I don't think we are moving forward as a club - at best, it's stagnation which will soon turn to regression should Mowbray remain here too much longer.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Everyone here is frustrated with them too though, aren't they? I mean the main discussion is individual mistakes. 

Do you not think ,say Neil Warnock, would also say he is frustrated with his team? The answer is yes, cos I have heard him do it loads of times 

Exactly, and nobody ever called Warnock a nice guy! 

[rigger]

Does TM know, we are results based supporters ? 

[Norbert Rassragr]

2 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Ignoring financial disciplines and constantly changing the manager has not worked for Derby, Nottingham Forest and Sheffield Wednesday.

Letting debts mount up and never getting a chance of promotion doesn't work either. This was supposed to be the big push for the play offs, and we have a squad capable of that, and yet we're blowing it. Oh well, at least you're happy with mediocrity and false dawns.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

At wish of upsetting some supporters - you have to give some credit to the owners - as at no point has he been forced into selling star players (something he omits to mention). They are giving him the opportunity and support to build a team - unlike most teams in this division - again something he omits to mention.

 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

15 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Letting debts mount up and never getting a chance of promotion doesn't work either. This was supposed to be the big push for the play offs, and we have a squad capable of that, and yet we're blowing it. Oh well, at least you're happy with mediocrity and false dawns.

Is the squad capable ? At the moment Lenihan is making mistakes which seem to being punished, Douglas has yet to show up, Johnson is up and down and Holtby has had a dip in form. Add to this one of our better players since lock down (Brereton) being injured, alongside Dack and Travis.

This isn't to get TM off the hook - but do we overstate the strength of our squad - especially compared to the Norwichs of this world ?

[JHRover]

11 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Is the squad capable ? At the moment Lenihan is making mistakes which seem to being punished, Douglas has yet to show up, Johnson is up and down and Holtby has had a dip in form. Add to this one of our better players since lock down (Brereton) being injured, alongside Dack and Travis.

This isn't to get TM off the hook - but do we overstate the strength of our squad - especially compared to the Norwichs of this world ?

I think the squad is capable of more than is being delivered. Mowbray of course deserves credit for assembling that but also criticism for not making more of it.

The flip side is that if the squad isn't good enough again that falls back on Mowbray. He's had more than enough time and money to get it to being good enough so if it isn't there now will it ever?

I know that having 4 years in the job, not being forced to sell any key players and a net spend of £20 million is a luxury very few others get at this level.

Injuries are par for the course. People mention Dack not being back yet but we've had 2 transfer windows to deal with his absence and despite it we are still top scorers so I dont accept his absence has caused us too much of a problem. Travis unfortunate and a big miss but we've a raft of midfielders signed by this manager to step into his shoes.

If Lenihan isn't up to it, making mistakes or playing poorly it is the job of the manager to drop or replace him. Yet he's straight back in after suspension suggesting the manager is happy with him.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Is the squad capable ? At the moment Lenihan is making mistakes which seem to being punished, Douglas has yet to show up, Johnson is up and down and Holtby has had a dip in form. Add to this one of our better players since lock down (Brereton) being injured, alongside Dack and Travis.

This isn't to get TM off the hook - but do we overstate the strength of our squad - especially compared to the Norwichs of this world ?

I don't think Holtby has had a dip in form. I think what you see is what you get. 1 very good game followed by 4 very average to poor games. He should be due another good one in a game or two.

[Mashed Potatoes]

3 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Letting debts mount up and never getting a chance of promotion doesn't work either. This was supposed to be the big push for the play offs, and we have a squad capable of that, and yet we're blowing it. Oh well, at least you're happy with mediocrity and false dawns.

I am baffled by your conclusion as to my feelings.

[tomphil]

5 hours ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

At wish of upsetting some supporters - you have to give some credit to the owners - as at no point has he been forced into selling star players (something he omits to mention). They are giving him the opportunity and support to build a team - unlike most teams in this division - again something he omits to mention.

 

Pound for pound he's the best backed Rovers manager since Hughes.  I'd go as far as saying he's one of the best backed in the division.

That is taking everything into account not just budget as he pretty much seems to get the green light for anything he wants around the place. Been safe as houses despite some terrible runs and crap football and falling crowds. Then the cherry on top of no forced sales.

That must be totally unique at modern day Rovers.

[47er]

11 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Ignoring financial disciplines and constantly changing the manager has not worked for Derby, Nottingham Forest and Sheffield Wednesday.

Whose suggesting "constantly" changing the manager?

 

11 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Do you not think ,say Neil Warnock, would also say he is frustrated with his team? The answer is yes, cos I have heard him do it loads of times 

Warnock is a results based manager.

Edited December 14, 2020 by 47er

[tomphil]

After the early chaos we've had what ? 4 managers since 2013 from when Bowyer stepped in ?

2 in the middle were only short term and one of those was by his own choice. So this one has been here 3+ years and the first of the others just a bit less.

That's hardly chopping and changing managers by a few clubs standards.  Change in football is inevitable it's par for the course.

[Exiled in Toronto]

13 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Damning stats courtesy of Sharpe:-

 

Against teams above them: P10 W0 D4 L6 F9 A18 Pts: 4/30

Against teams below them: P8 W7 D0 L1 F23 A4 Pts: 21/24

Being too idle to look it up, but would I be right in assuming that Armstrong has not scored against teams above us? He certainly has fired blanks in the last three.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

5 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Being too idle to look it up, but would I be right in assuming that Armstrong has not scored against teams above us? He certainly has fired blanks in the last three.

Off the top of my head I have no idea and I'm also too idle to check, but it's a good question. 

[rog of the rovers]

29 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Off the top of my head I have no idea and I'm also too idle to check, but it's a good question. 

1 against Bournemouth away

2 at home to Reading

3/14 league goals

Interestingly, we’ve played 10/11 teams above us, only missing Stoke, who we play away on Saturday. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

1 minute ago, rog of the rovers said:

1 against Bournemouth away

2 at home to Reading

3/14 league goals

Interestingly, we’ve played 10/11 teams above us, only missing Stoke, who we play away on Saturday. 

Thanks for looking it up. 
 

When your main striker has a hit rate against better teams one-third that of against lesser teams, we clearly aren’t going to be promotion material.

[Sparks Rover]

10 hours ago, JHRover said:

If Lenihan isn't up to it, making mistakes or playing poorly it is the job of the manager to drop or replace him. Yet he's straight back in after suspension suggesting the manager is happy with him.

Lenihan is our best defender,even if he's a bit of a neanderthal.   What he needs is quality beside him, Del and Carthorse aren't the answer.

Mowbray needs to spend on a decent "in his prime" centre back with a left foot and he needs to clear out the old tired legs around Holtby (Tybull/Johnson/Downing) and give him a proper centre midfielder to give him and Joe the platform to create.

[LeftWinger]

8 hours ago, rog of the rovers said:

Interestingly, we’ve played 10/11 teams above us, only missing Stoke, who we play away on Saturday. 

Not surprising though - we're only 5 games off the half way point of the season.

[Mashed Potatoes]

10 hours ago, 47er said:

Whose suggesting "constantly" changing the manager?

 

Warnock is a results based manager.

I was responding to a post that cited a club who are on their fifth permanent manager since June 2016

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

8 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Lenihan is our best defender,even if he's a bit of a neanderthal.   What he needs is quality beside him, Del and Carthorse aren't the answer.

Mowbray needs to spend on a decent "in his prime" centre back with a left foot and he needs to clear out the old tired legs around Holtby (Tybull/Johnson/Downing) and give him a proper centre midfielder to give him and Joe the platform to create.

There's a young lad in East Lancashire called Travis who might fit the bill 🤔 

Regarding Lenihan - defensively he does ok - but for an ex-midfield player, his distribution can be woeful at times - mainly because he tries to be over ambitious (TM should be taking him to one side, at the end of the day he is no Tosin when it comes to distribution). It is often this that leads to goals or rash challenges as he tries to atone for his mistake.

Interesting that Williams gets stick for the first goal - but nobody mentions Kaminski for being beaten at his near post. IMO you just have to recognise the forwards skill. I seem to remember Garner scoring a few goals like that (though my memory is hazy) was his goal against Liverpool in the FA Cup not similar?

[tomphil]

The question is though is Lenihen actually good enough or competent enough over a season to build a promotion push on ?

Add in is Williams also ?   Because this is what we keep coming back to, both have played big parts in previous seasons. In a defense that continues to never really improve.

If you want to improve you have to make big decisions and sometimes that means trying to get better than anyone who isn't really good. No position should be immune to improvement.