Tony Mowbray Discussion

[rigger]

8 minutes ago, tomphil said:

The question is though is Lenihen actually good enough or competent enough over a season to build a promotion push on ?

Add in is Williams also ?   Because this is what we keep coming back to, both have played big parts in previous seasons. In a defense that continues to never really improve.

If you want to improve you have to make big decisions and sometimes that means trying to get better than anyone who isn't really good. No position should be immune to improvement. 

Especially the managers.

[Gone to seed]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Not surprising though - we're only 5 games off the half way point of the season.

Yes, that is a good point. Perhaps a clearer indication of our trajectory for the season might be visible after the next 5 games, when we hit mid-season. If we continue to be mid-table, then barring any miraculous upturn in fortunes, that is more than likely where we will end up. If, after these next 5 games, we are in or very close to the top 6 berths, then perhaps there may be more cause for optimism, although TM does appear to be feast or famine (mainly famine these past 3 plus years).

[Blue blood]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

The question is though is Lenihen actually good enough or competent enough over a season to build a promotion push on ?

Add in is Williams also ?   Because this is what we keep coming back to, both have played big parts in previous seasons. In a defense that continues to never really improve.

If you want to improve you have to make big decisions and sometimes that means trying to get better than anyone who isn't really good. No position should be immune to improvement. 

Good question. I would say with the right people around him Lenihen is definitely a yes, Williams a no. Look at how Lenihen did with Tosin - each one clearly had their own role at centre back and the partnership worked well. Get the right partner and we have two good players. 

Williams is ok. A few good games, a few bad ones too, and with fitness issues to boot not really enough to be warranting a place in the squad. Would definitely looking for someone a tad more consistent on both injury and form front. 

 It's a bit of a moot debate though as we never spend on the defence. 

[tomphil]

I think to be serious we need 4 proper center halves with the first choice 2 being good ones.  That might see imo Lenihen as no 3 but all this Williams etc is good back up is precisely why we keep struggling.

Not singling him out but he always ends up playing a key role yet in truth he isn't good and neither is Darragh. They are just 'alright' and that's the whole problem at Ewood, just alright will do.

Well sadly it won't if you want promotion, there are key areas need genuine improvement. The center back berths are 2 of those but we keep making do where we can. Ayala should prove to be an upgrade but he's another we'll struggle to get a big run of games from probably so we are back to relying on the back up.

Just look at the difference a good keeper has made, i'd wager good defenders would have another significant impact on it.

[rigger]

13 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Good question. I would say with the right people around him Lenihen is definitely a yes, Williams a no. Look at how Lenihen did with Tosin - each one clearly had their own role at centre back and the partnership worked well. Get the right partner and we have two good players. 

Williams is ok. A few good games, a few bad ones too, and with fitness issues to boot not really enough to be warranting a place in the squad. Would definitely looking for someone a tad more consistent on both injury and form front. 

 It's a bit of a moot debate though as we never spend on the defence. 

And yet they still conceded loads of goals !

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, rigger said:

And yet they still conceded loads of goals !

Pity it wasn't Kaminski with them. Walton made me very nervous

[LeftWinger]

2 hours ago, rigger said:

And yet they still conceded loads of goals !

Although...

With Lenihan and Tosin together:

Played 25

Conceded 27

Clean Sheets 8

Win Percentage: 48%

Without Lenihan and Tosin together:

Played 24

Conceded 41

Clean Sheets 4

Win Percentage: 25%

[Blue blood]

2 hours ago, rigger said:

And yet they still conceded loads of goals !

 

12 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Pity it wasn't Kaminski with them. Walton made me very nervous

Think BDS gives some of my response. I don't think it helped that Walton was in goal, he was terrible with a lot of goals attributable to his individual errors. There was a fair number of clean sheets and positive reviews of him so I think there are some signs Lenihen can be good enough. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

 

Think BDS gives some of my response. I don't think it helped that Walton was in goal, he was terrible with a lot of goals attributable to his individual errors. There was a fair number of clean sheets and positive reviews of him so I think there are some signs Lenihen can be good enough. 

I think him and Tosin complimented each other. Tosin is a better ball player than Williams. A top athlete too. 

Walton at his worst was a disaster

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just checked Brighton's last game. Steele was on the bench ahead of Walton. 

So much confusing about Brighton's goalkeeper situation. 

[JHRover]

10 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Just checked Brighton's last game. Steele was on the bench ahead of Walton. 

So much confusing about Brighton's goalkeeper situation. 

Walton is out with a really bad injury.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

25 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think him and Tosin complimented each other.

Ooh Darragh, love your new hair cut.

Oh Tosin, shurrup!

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Ooh Darragh, love your new hair cut.

Oh Tosin, shurrup!

 

Lol, going off some of the social media I think that's pretty much what goes on 

I think I may be getting over exposed to Roy Keane with him being on Sky so much, but did you see his absolute disgust at the amount of hugging and jersey swapping that was going on at the end of the Manchester Derby? Hilarious. He found it incompatible with his favourite phrase "trying to win football matches"

Edited December 15, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[roversfan99]

I do love Roy Keane as a pundit but he certainly does play on his reputation of being a certain type of character.

[SoldierMo]

Shockingly Bilic could be getting the sacked..replaced by Mark Hughes...wba fans going crazy...shocking how much his reputation has suffered...still think Hughes with this team would have took us up

[Tom]

I’ve always liked Bilic, he’d be a real roll of the dice if someone took a gamble.

Steady mid table with brief play off flirtations with Mowbray or risk it and try and bring in someone more dynamic who could rock the apple cart!

[AllRoverAsia]

Bilic kissing Rao ass?

Ain't gonna happen

[A Northern Horde...]

...Shocking what folk will do if the money is right ARA!

Edited December 16, 2020 by A Northern Horde...

[Bigdoggsteel]

7 hours ago, SoldierMo said:

Shockingly Bilic could be getting the sacked..replaced by Mark Hughes...wba fans going crazy...shocking how much his reputation has suffered...still think Hughes with this team would have took us up

That has Big Sam written all over it. Be shocked if Hughes got it. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

I think Mowbray should get the season, but I don't think after the time and money he has had here, that the play offs would be punching above our weight. Top 2, yes, fair enough , you will have at least 2 teams with better squads who have come down, but I'm disappointed with that viewpoint to be honest

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18946154.rovers-aiming-punch-weight-challenge/

The time he has had here is worth something and he should acknowledge that. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[K-Hod]

The thing is, some people will buy right into that, forgetting he’s been well backed this season and also the money he’s spent on the forward line....

[tomphil]

Changing center halves round at midtable championship level according to opposition 🙄

Never heard anything as over complicated since i heard it last season about the right back position !

Anyone wondering why we never get consistency needs to look no further than this type of thing. Despite what he might say this man does not want a solid moulded first 11 he wants interchangeable players in nearly every position. And change them he will.

Keep everyone happy on the good ship Tony.

Edited December 16, 2020 by tomphil

[SoldierMo]

Idiot of a manager...who rotates their bloody centre halfs...consistency is the key in this league something tinker Mowbray has never bloody grasped

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

The thing is, some people will buy right into that, forgetting he’s been well backed this season and also the money he’s spent on the forward line....

About 15m in fees spent on our current champ attack (minus Harvey) Armstrong, Brereton, Gallagher and Dolan. (Dack still to come back,  Holtby / Rothwell  have played attacking roles but came on frees)

Not to bad value for money in hindsight, especially if Gally continues to improve. All relatively young too.

Wolves spent 15m on one player 3 years ago - Ruben Neves, to me that indicates the difference between 4 or 5 teams compared to the rest of the top half.

The average wage for a champ player 15 years ago too- £3000 a week, now- almost £30k pw.

So to me, the argument that “it’s a lot of money to us” never made sense because our expectations should be made by looking at our team compared to others. I would say we get a lot more value for money than others below;

 

1: Stoke City £94.2m

2: West Brom £92.2m

3: Swansea City £90.7m

4: Huddersfield £62.6m

5: Fulham £54.3m

6: Middlesbrough £48.7m

7: Cardiff City £48.4m

8: Derby £40.4m

9: Birmingham £38.5m

10: Reading £35.3m

11: Leeds £31.3m

12: Hull £31.1m

13: QPR £30.6m

14: Sheff Wed £29.3m

15: Nottm Forest £27.7m

16: Bristol City £27.2m

17: Brentford £17.1m

18: Blackburn £16.7m

19: Preston £15m

20: Millwall £13.3m

21: Wigan £11.7m

22: Barnsley £10.6m

23: Charlton £10.2m

24: Luton £6.2m

If you look at the rank for wages last season, It shows just exactly what we’re up against, and it also shows how much of a divide in the league there is - due to parachute payments and the huge jump in revenue for one premier league season!

I think the simplistic way of evaluating TMs progress with us, most of us would agree it’s potentially time to move on next summer if we fail to get top six.

He has raised the expectations exponentially since he arrived. (For me at least)

Edited December 16, 2020 by JBiz

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

19 minutes ago, JBiz said:

About 15m in fees spent on our current champ attack (minus Harvey) Armstrong, Brereton, Gallagher and Dolan. (Dack still to come back,  Holtby / Rothwell  have played attacking roles but came on frees)

Not to bad value for money in hindsight, especially if Gally continues to improve. All relatively young too.

Wolves spent 15m on one player 3 years ago - Ruben Neves, to me that indicates the difference between 4 or 5 teams compared to the rest of the top half.

The average wage for a champ player 15 years ago too- £3000 a week, now- almost £30k pw.

So to me, the argument that “it’s a lot of money to us” never made sense because our expectations should be made by looking at our team compared to others. I would say we get a lot more value for money than others below;

 

1: Stoke City £94.2m

2: West Brom £92.2m

3: Swansea City £90.7m

4: Huddersfield £62.6m

5: Fulham £54.3m

6: Middlesbrough £48.7m

7: Cardiff City £48.4m

8: Derby £40.4m

9: Birmingham £38.5m

10: Reading £35.3m

11: Leeds £31.3m

12: Hull £31.1m

13: QPR £30.6m

14: Sheff Wed £29.3m

15: Nottm Forest £27.7m

16: Bristol City £27.2m

17: Brentford £17.1m

18: Blackburn £16.7m

19: Preston £15m

20: Millwall £13.3m

21: Wigan £11.7m

22: Barnsley £10.6m

23: Charlton £10.2m

24: Luton £6.2m

If you look at the rank for wages last season, It shows just exactly what we’re up against, and it also shows how much of a divide in the league there is - due to parachute payments and the huge jump in revenue for one premier league season!

I think the simplistic way of evaluating TMs progress with us, most of us would agree it’s potentially time to move on next summer if we fail to get top six.

He has raised the expectations exponentially since he arrived. (For me at least)

Are they wages? Skewed somewhat by the fact that a lot of those clubs will have Prem wages on their books. If only we could get the same VFM as Barnsley, currently riding high. 😉