Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Bigdoggsteel]

I think Mowbray should get the season, but I don't think after the time and money he has had here, that the play offs would be punching above our weight. Top 2, yes, fair enough , you will have at least 2 teams with better squads who have come down, but I'm disappointed with that viewpoint to be honest

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18946154.rovers-aiming-punch-weight-challenge/

The time he has had here is worth something and he should acknowledge that. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[K-Hod]

The thing is, some people will buy right into that, forgetting he’s been well backed this season and also the money he’s spent on the forward line....

[tomphil]

Changing center halves round at midtable championship level according to opposition 🙄

Never heard anything as over complicated since i heard it last season about the right back position !

Anyone wondering why we never get consistency needs to look no further than this type of thing. Despite what he might say this man does not want a solid moulded first 11 he wants interchangeable players in nearly every position. And change them he will.

Keep everyone happy on the good ship Tony.

Edited December 16, 2020 by tomphil

[SoldierMo]

Idiot of a manager...who rotates their bloody centre halfs...consistency is the key in this league something tinker Mowbray has never bloody grasped

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

The thing is, some people will buy right into that, forgetting he’s been well backed this season and also the money he’s spent on the forward line....

About 15m in fees spent on our current champ attack (minus Harvey) Armstrong, Brereton, Gallagher and Dolan. (Dack still to come back,  Holtby / Rothwell  have played attacking roles but came on frees)

Not to bad value for money in hindsight, especially if Gally continues to improve. All relatively young too.

Wolves spent 15m on one player 3 years ago - Ruben Neves, to me that indicates the difference between 4 or 5 teams compared to the rest of the top half.

The average wage for a champ player 15 years ago too- £3000 a week, now- almost £30k pw.

So to me, the argument that “it’s a lot of money to us” never made sense because our expectations should be made by looking at our team compared to others. I would say we get a lot more value for money than others below;

 

1: Stoke City £94.2m

2: West Brom £92.2m

3: Swansea City £90.7m

4: Huddersfield £62.6m

5: Fulham £54.3m

6: Middlesbrough £48.7m

7: Cardiff City £48.4m

8: Derby £40.4m

9: Birmingham £38.5m

10: Reading £35.3m

11: Leeds £31.3m

12: Hull £31.1m

13: QPR £30.6m

14: Sheff Wed £29.3m

15: Nottm Forest £27.7m

16: Bristol City £27.2m

17: Brentford £17.1m

18: Blackburn £16.7m

19: Preston £15m

20: Millwall £13.3m

21: Wigan £11.7m

22: Barnsley £10.6m

23: Charlton £10.2m

24: Luton £6.2m

If you look at the rank for wages last season, It shows just exactly what we’re up against, and it also shows how much of a divide in the league there is - due to parachute payments and the huge jump in revenue for one premier league season!

I think the simplistic way of evaluating TMs progress with us, most of us would agree it’s potentially time to move on next summer if we fail to get top six.

He has raised the expectations exponentially since he arrived. (For me at least)

Edited December 16, 2020 by JBiz

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

19 minutes ago, JBiz said:

About 15m in fees spent on our current champ attack (minus Harvey) Armstrong, Brereton, Gallagher and Dolan. (Dack still to come back,  Holtby / Rothwell  have played attacking roles but came on frees)

Not to bad value for money in hindsight, especially if Gally continues to improve. All relatively young too.

Wolves spent 15m on one player 3 years ago - Ruben Neves, to me that indicates the difference between 4 or 5 teams compared to the rest of the top half.

The average wage for a champ player 15 years ago too- £3000 a week, now- almost £30k pw.

So to me, the argument that “it’s a lot of money to us” never made sense because our expectations should be made by looking at our team compared to others. I would say we get a lot more value for money than others below;

 

1: Stoke City £94.2m

2: West Brom £92.2m

3: Swansea City £90.7m

4: Huddersfield £62.6m

5: Fulham £54.3m

6: Middlesbrough £48.7m

7: Cardiff City £48.4m

8: Derby £40.4m

9: Birmingham £38.5m

10: Reading £35.3m

11: Leeds £31.3m

12: Hull £31.1m

13: QPR £30.6m

14: Sheff Wed £29.3m

15: Nottm Forest £27.7m

16: Bristol City £27.2m

17: Brentford £17.1m

18: Blackburn £16.7m

19: Preston £15m

20: Millwall £13.3m

21: Wigan £11.7m

22: Barnsley £10.6m

23: Charlton £10.2m

24: Luton £6.2m

If you look at the rank for wages last season, It shows just exactly what we’re up against, and it also shows how much of a divide in the league there is - due to parachute payments and the huge jump in revenue for one premier league season!

I think the simplistic way of evaluating TMs progress with us, most of us would agree it’s potentially time to move on next summer if we fail to get top six.

He has raised the expectations exponentially since he arrived. (For me at least)

Are they wages? Skewed somewhat by the fact that a lot of those clubs will have Prem wages on their books. If only we could get the same VFM as Barnsley, currently riding high. 😉 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

1 hour ago, SoldierMo said:

Idiot of a manager...who rotates their bloody centre halfs...consistency is the key in this league something tinker Mowbray has never bloody grasped

In a normal season would possibly agree with you - but with two injury prone centre halves and three games a week it would seem sensible to rotate

[SoldierMo]

Prone to more injuries if they play one game and miss the next and then back in for the next

[Bigdoggsteel]

It's not just about what we have spent though, it's the time he has had here to build a squad. It's extremely rare anyone gets that long these days. In ways it's worth more than giving a manager £20 million to spend. He is surely the longest serving manager in the division at this point? The academy was maintained at a high level too, which in fairness he is utilizing, but I just cant agree with him saying the play-offs would be punching above our weight. I'm actually disappointed with those comments to be very honest. It creates a "barrier" to breaking into the play off places in my eyes. Why should it be punching above their weight for Blackburn rovers to get into the play offs anyway? It's a classic annoying Mowbray thing to say. Better win now tonight. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[tomphil]

4 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

In a normal season would possibly agree with you - but with two injury prone centre halves and three games a week it would seem sensible to rotate

He's said he rotated according to opposition not because someone was tired.

But regardless of that surely you stick with what is best first and foremost then change if needed.

He's just doing what he always does and always has there is no new unique reason for it. The reason is just his normal methods of keeping everyone involved and keeping everyone onside in his camp regardless of results.

We've seen it enough now even those with Mowbray shaped spectacles should be cottoning on.

[JBiz]

41 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Are they wages? Skewed somewhat by the fact that a lot of those clubs will have Prem wages on their books. If only we could get the same VFM as Barnsley, currently riding high. 😉 

Well yea definitely skews the whole league wage / transfer value somewhat.

The likes of Stoke and Huddersfield are still paying a few players premier league wages - I think we have a better squad than these including others like derby and Middlesbrough - yet ours costs much less.

Even withstanding that; it would be seen as a massive failure to finish outside the playoffs. Testament to the potential and ability we have accrued over 5 windows for a moderate outlay at this level.

As for Barnsley - you mentioned a decent VFM - maybe the trick or lesson we should see here is the opportunity to get a very experienced coach from a different country like Ismaël, who at 45 is in his tenth year of management in 2021, including teams in Europe like Wolfsburg and LASK.

There have a been a few recently, Wagner, Jokanavic, Nuno Santo, Farke etc 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

9 minutes ago, JBiz said:

As for Barnsley - you mentioned a decent VFM - maybe the trick or lesson we should see here is the opportunity to get a very experienced coach from a different country like Ismaël, who at 45 is in his tenth year of management in 2021, including teams in Europe like Wolfsburg and LASK.

There have a been a few recently, Wagner, Jokanavic, Nuno Santo, Farke etc 

Yeah, defo managers out there that could potentially do better with what we've got. Like everyone else though I'd imagine, I have no faith Venky's would appoint them. 

[JBiz]

5 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Yeah, defo managers out there that could potentially do better with what we've got. Like everyone else though I'd imagine, I have no faith Venky's would appoint them. 

That’s always been the (Indian) elephant in the room!

[Ewood Ace]

4 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think Mowbray should get the season, but I don't think after the time and money he has had here, that the play offs would be punching above our weight. Top 2, yes, fair enough , you will have at least 2 teams with better squads who have come down, but I'm disappointed with that viewpoint to be honest

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18946154.rovers-aiming-punch-weight-challenge/

The time he has had here is worth something and he should acknowledge that. 

Such insulting words about our great football club although no doubt it will be lapped up by his disciples. Just as with all things Mowbray does it is all about his own self-preservation and nothing else. If only he had as many footballing ideas as he does excuses then we'd already be in the top flight. Every time we hit a dodgy run he comes out with a barrel load of different excuses and of course he is never to blame.

[Mattyblue]

Average Championship wage is £30k a week?

Is it buggery.

 

[JBiz]

14 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Average Championship wage is £30k a week?

Is it buggery.

 

What is then? 
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8262315/Physios-191-000-kit-men-56-000-Crazy-wages-dont-add-EFL-clubs-brink.html

These guys suggest 29k...

Thanks MB for making such an important critique and contribution to the thread, proof that this place is the best for it.

Edited December 16, 2020 by JBiz

[roversfan99]

I think the last accounts were published were for the year ended 30 June 2019, so it is likely that following the additions last summer of Gallagher, Holtby, Johnson, Downing and this year of Kaminski, Ayala, Pears and the 3 senior loanees that our wage bill has gone up fairly significantly on those figures.

[JBiz]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think the last accounts were published were for the year ended 30 June 2019, so it is likely that following the additions last summer of Gallagher, Holtby, Johnson, Downing and this year of Kaminski, Ayala, Pears and the 3 senior loanees that our wage bill has gone up fairly significantly on those figures.

Absolutely - the figures are for last season, and I would expect us to be more like 18/20m and further up in the same tally come next May.

One of the reasons the expectation level is going up.

[JHRover]

Mowbray has had money, time, opportunity and freedom no other current Championship manager can lay a glove on.

£20 million spend, no forced sales, minimal pressure from above or the fanbase, patience and control over everything.

Never mind punch above our weight Tony. Stick to the job in hand of getting above Barnsley and Luton. 

I also take issue with the suggestion that we can't compete with top 6 sides who currently include Swansea and Brentford. I'm sure their managers would love the money Mowbray's splashed out and wages he's committed to.

[superniko]

35 minutes ago, JBiz said:

What is then? 
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8262315/Physios-191-000-kit-men-56-000-Crazy-wages-dont-add-EFL-clubs-brink.html

These guys suggest 29k...

Thanks MB for making such an important critique and contribution to the thread, proof that this place is the best for it.

Not sure if you actually read the article (I personally try and avoid the Mail), but that £30k refers to the highest earner within each team. Not the average for all Championship players, which I'd wager is sub-£15k

[SoldierMo]

I would take Hughes right now if Mowbray walks.....

[Sparks Rover]

If we lose tonight I'll be calling for his resignation 

[Mattyblue]

No idea on average salaries, but it ain’t £30k.

EFL clubs responded to a survey last season, it was then worked out that the biggest earner within clubs had an average of £30k across the league, not that that is an average wage for a Championship footballer.

Which makes sense as some parachute clubs will have marquee players with enormous salaries - Mitrovic at Fulham would be a prime example. But that certainly won’t be the case at clubs without parachutes, either top earners or the rest of the squad.

It’s bloody tough to compete with parachute clubs, however that can often be countered by said clubs being in a right mess on relegation. Stoke and Huddersfield are two. Though this season will be tough due to three relegated clubs hitting the ground running.
 

 

[Leonard Venkhater]

4 hours ago, tomphil said:

He's said he rotated according to opposition not because someone was tired.

But regardless of that surely you stick with what is best first and foremost then change if needed.

He's just doing what he always does and always has there is no new unique reason for it. The reason is just his normal methods of keeping everyone involved and keeping everyone onside in his camp regardless of results.

We've seen it enough now even those with Mowbray shaped spectacles should be cottoning on.

It worked didn't it? lol...Neither Derrick nor Darragh came out of that game with much credit!

[davulsukur]

2 hours ago, SoldierMo said:

I would take Hughes right now if Mowbray walks.....

He ain't walking